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Author Topic: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio  (Read 9297 times)

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Offline bemyown234

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  • Posts: 5
Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« on: December 04, 2006, 05:07:42 PM »
I have gone through a lot of threads in this forum and find the information very reassuring. Please allow me to ask a question which shares some features with some earlier questions, but has something new.

I am a 32 year old heterosexual. This may sound strange, but I have had actual vaginal sex only 3 times, 3 years back , with my girl friend and that was protected and I have no concerns about that.

Due to geographical reasons,I am now seperated from my gf by thosands of miles. I live in UK now.I work in a hospital and am aware of HIV etc.

During the past 3 years , I have visited several massage parlours, probably once every 2-3 months. I have always had protected oral sex( receiving bj) and a few "handjobs" and nothing else.

During the last 4 months, I think I got slightly more adventurous and had the following incidents.

1.2 months back,  I received an unprotected blow job from a Afro-carribean escort, lasted for about 1 minute.No cuts/sores visible on me . Her status unknown.

2. About 2 weeks back, I met another lady escort, white caucasian , looked healthy, received unprotected blow job for around 2 minutes.I fingered her vagina for a few minutes. There was a small cut, around 1 day old on my finger as I had pulled out a corner of my nail. No blood visible anywhere .

I have never had any other sex, anal or vaginal.

Based on this,

a. What is the risk for HIV?
b. Should I get tested?
c. I saw an article in BMJ which suggested that risk of HIV following oral sex is much higher than what US researchers think.The leading UK hiv charity also thinks so.What do you think about that?

d. A 1998 review in a leading uk medical journal gives 4 references for confirmed cases of HIV following insertive fellatio. Please see http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/74/1/6.pdf

The references they give are :
Rozenbaum W, Gharakhanian S, Cardon B, Duval E, Coulaud
JP. HIV transmission by oral sex. Lancet 1988;i:1395.

Bratt GA, Berglund T, Glantzberg BL, Albert J, Sandstrom
E. Two cases of oral-to-genital HIV-1 transmission. Int J
STD AIDS 1997;8:522–5.

Spitzer PG,Weiner NJ. Transmission of HIV infection from
a woman to a man by oral sex.N Engl JMed 1989;320:251.

Quarto M, Germinario C, Troiano T, Fontana A, Barbuti S.
HIV transmission by fellatio. Eur J Epidemiol 1990;6:339–
40.

Are these defenitely confirmed? My understanding was that there were no documented cases.

e. If I get tested, is it ok to do so at 28 days after the last exposure with a duo test( p24, HIV1 and HIV2 )

f. Some labs in UK are offering a new rapid test called "insti". Please see http://www.biolytical.com/. How accurate is this at 4 weeks?

Many Thanks for replying to these questions

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,277
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 05:11:37 PM »
a. No
b. No
c. No

You don't get HIV from receiving a blowjob. You don't need to have a test either.

Offline bemyown234

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  • Posts: 5
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 05:36:25 PM »
 I agree thats what many people say, but why is there so much conflicting information about it? And what about the reports that I mentioned?

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 05:44:29 PM »
Why ask?  Just get tested and the truth shall set you free!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 05:53:13 PM »
be,

One of the reasons why there are so many conflicting reports about, well, sex and hiv in general, is because many people/organisations have a moral/religious agenda. They don't want you to have any sort of sexual relations outside a traditional, heterosexual marriage. They want to scare you into being celebate.

The study you cite is old. There are three, much newer, long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us two things. One, condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission. Two, oral sex is much lower risk than previously believed. We now have the evidence that oral sex is a very low risk activity where hiv transmission is concerned.

But saying all that, you need to understand that oral sex being a "very low risk activity" relates to giving a blowjob. Giving, not getting one. Not one person has EVER become infected with hiv through getting a blowjob and you will not be the first.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Illusion22

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  • Posts: 57
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 06:44:43 PM »
''Be''


        I can seriously tell you that ANN and ANDY along with the rest of the experts here know what there talking about man...trust me im on the same boat and of course we're looking for peace of mind but don't let it get to ya man....I almost did...me personally im doing a oraquick this week which is like 50 days after that girl gave ME a blowjob and then a reconfirm on jan but ONLY because im 22 yrs young and i have a child on the way i need to be reassured, but like I said these guys/girls know there stuff dude! God bless you!

splashsplash1

  • Guest
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 07:43:12 PM »
I'm certainly not an expert on HIV, but I am much more comfortable in the fields of research, psychology and statistics, and I (and people with doctorate degrees in these areas) can tell you that these studies use flawed data and methods.  When events are so incredibly uncommon (meaning, non existant) as someone contracting HIV through insertive oral sex, they need to be case studies rather than correlation trends.  A responsible, sound study cannot be based upon the response of highly innaccurate knowledge of survey respondents.  Even look among this forum at the widespread lack of knowledge about HIV transmission, even among those who obsessively research it.  Furthermore, the survey conductors believed and did not question those who had considerable motive to lie on the survey about their sexual behavoirs, for instance: take a MSM in a married relationship who does not want his family to discover his sexual habbits and thereby says he only received oral sex rather than anal sex--there lies in such an individual motive to lie.  Or someone with HIV who has not come out of the closet yet, or a heterosexual who cheated on his wife and wants the magnitude of the cheating to be lessened because he "only received head" instead of had ongoing sexual intercourse.  The motives for such data skewing are numerous and common.
Besides these methodological problems, the sample size of the studies listed are tiny, as well as the longitude of the trial.  What is a MUCH more effective research method are those employed by the studies Ann mentioned, which show NO new seroconversions.  The only way that human error (such as respondents lying) could skew data is if the majority lied about NOT having oral sex, which is a safe assumption that hundreds of couples did not make such a lie.
While the experts on this forum no doubt can be fully trusted, the conclusions above are also shared by highly respected members of this field.  Look-there are people who have years and years of education and experience in this field, and the overwhelming consesus among such individuals is that a case of HIV transmission has never been proven, which is why it remains widely referred to as a "theoretical risk".
I am in your shoes, it is hard to believe, especially after conving yourself you have HIV, that you have no risk and have no reason to worry, but if you could get HIV from receiving head, people on this forum (not to mention the medical community) would have seen it by now.  You have no risk.  No need to find surveys from the 80's--any study where they reffered to GRID is of course useless anyway  :)

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,277
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 07:49:02 PM »
Splash, please keep all your thoughts and questions in your own thread.

splashsplash1

  • Guest
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 07:51:54 PM »
Sorry, thought I was being helpful!  :)

Offline bemyown234

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 09:02:21 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.Please give me some more clarification, if you can.

So whats the basis for the 1 in 20, 000 risk given by CDC and why are they not changing it?

What is the current practice in most clinics? Do they recommend testing for insertive fellatio?

I live in UK and most clincis still seem to recommend testing...

Still confused...moderators please help.

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 05:14:18 PM »
be,

The CDC was one of the organisations I had in mind when I said:
Quote
One of the reasons why there are so many conflicting reports about, well, sex and hiv in general, is because many people/organisations have a moral/religious agenda. They don't want you to have any sort of sexual relations outside a traditional, heterosexual marriage. They want to scare you into being celebate.

The CDC is funded by the US government. If you follow the news at all, you will know that the current administration in the White House favours Abstinence Only education, instead of giving people the scientific facts and promoting condom use. A lot of the information published on the CDC website is driven by religious dogma instead of hard science. If you want to know more about their motives, I suggest you contact them. However, their HIV hotline is useless because it is manned by people who do not have the first clue about what they're talking about. Most of them work off manuals written in the 1800s - or at least that's what it sounds like by some of the answers they give.

I also live in the UK and I was at my clinic earlier today. In fact, I was having a laugh with the doctor about people who insist on stressing about hiv after getting a blowjob. I can tell you for certain that the doctor I was talking to wouldn't recommend an hiv test after getting your willy sucked. It's not a risk.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bemyown234

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
Some more clarification please
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 03:32:44 AM »
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I guess I needed some more reassurance.

Allow me to summarise my sexual history again.:

32 year old male, living in uk, originally from South Asia.

Vaginal sex: 3-4 episodes with girl friend, all protected, now seperated for geographic reasons. No other vaginal/anal sex.

Fellatio: 20+ episodes of condom protected blow jobs from massage parlour girls/ escorts in UK. 2 episodes of unprotected blow jobs, each lasting for 2-3 minutes only.

Hand jobs , around 5-6 times. Same for suckng of sex workers nipples and masturbation on breasts.

Others: Fingering of vagina 3 times , once with a recent cut.

No episodes of deep kissing, anal sex or cunnilingis. Not a drug user.

No symptoms. Last exposure on Nov 15.

Based on this, am i at any risk for HIV?


I guess part of the worry is due to the disagreement even among experts and agancies about insertive fellatio.


For example, this site, lessons sectiion says theoretic risk. Forums say 0 risk.
Many websites give theoertic/low risk
Canadian Aids society says negligible risk
CDC says risk of 1 in 20, 2000
Dr H on medhelp.org, an authority on STDs, says,HIV  probably is transmitted by oral sex, but too rare to consider for practical purposes.
Dr Bob on body.com says 1 in 20, 000
Dr Joell Gallantz on Johns Hopkins says no risk at all
Dr K at city clinic, San Fransicco says possibly no risk.
Many UK charities/agencies still maintainthat there is a risk

I am aware of the recent studies demostrating sero seroconversion. But I have also seen a couple of people on the I am positive forum on this site claim they got it from insertive fellatio.
On the other hand we have testimonials from people like Ann who dont use any protection for oral, but still their partners remain negative after several years.


On a related note, I found 2 studies about HIV prevalence among sex workers in UK which found that it was low at 1-2 % prevalence only.

Based on this, please tell me :

1. Am I at any risk?
2.Should I get tested?
3. Why is there no consensus even among experts? What is yout take on the conflicting advice given even by experts?

You guy are doing a wonderful job and I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 07:53:57 AM »
be,

We've already told you that you have not had a risk for hiv infection. Our answers are NOT going to change, so re-read your entire thread again.

If you cannot bring yourself to believe us, go test, collect your negative result and move on with your life.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2007, 09:36:08 AM »
To answer your questions.

1.  No
2.  No
3.  The consensus DOES agree that insertive felatio (getting a blowjob) is NOT a risk.  It has never happened and you wont be the first.  Check the serodiscordant couples study out of spain for scientific PROOF. 

Bottom line, its your health and your anxiety do what you want to do.  Test if you want to test but we stand by the advice we have given.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline bemyown234

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
Re: Still a bit worried about insertive fellatio
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 08:58:45 AM »
Hi freinds.

Ultimately I did test.
On Day 90 after my last exposure, I went to a private clinic in London and met a specialist in STD and HIV.

He was very helpful , said there was no risk of HIV and remote risk for any STD. He did not recommend any testing( which was very ethical as a private clinic would normally try to promote testing and make money)

However upon by insistance , he did an instant HIV test ( INSTI) . This is reported as 99.6% accurate .The results were available in 1 minute and it was NEGATIVE.

( I know, I know, you said it, I was not at risk).
He said there was no need for any other testing.

And there ends the story,,.hopefully.

If someone wants to be hyperconservative and want to believe in the CDC estimates absolutely, the worst case scenario would be like this:

Risk for 1 exposure of insertive fellatio is  1 in 20, 000. Assuming both my unprotected fellatio givers to be HIV positive( which is a VERY big assumption), the risk would have been 2 in 20, 000 0r 0.001. If my test will miss 0.4% cases ( being 99.6% accurate), the risk that I would still have HIV after the negative test is 0.001 x 0.004= 0.000004, which works out as 4 in 1 million, which is as close to zero as anybody would get. The chance that I would die this very moment from lightining strikes or falling meteorites is much much higher than that.

Thanks for all the help and support. No more risk taking for me, its time to move on.

 


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