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Author Topic: HIV Lite  (Read 11751 times)

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Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
HIV Lite
« on: November 29, 2006, 09:38:01 AM »
Well, I guess things have come full circle, and it is now time for me to bid you adieu.

When I joined this forum in February of ’04, there was a climate of discourse and discussion that bordered on the miraculous.  This climate persisted for about a year and a half, until something started to happen.  As I see it, many new members started to register who embraced the new mantra that HIV was no more alarming than an Excedrin Headache, and they knew that was the truth because their doctor said so and they were going to believe the doctor; who by the way make much of their income pushing drugs and messages of the drug companies.

I protested at every opportunity, due to my knowledge of HIV from 27 years of activism, several years as a director of two AIDS Organizations, and from research, which most of us “ANCIENTS” did to be able to survive.  Many of you know that I even sold a home and moved to another state to rid myself of an Infectious Disease Specialist who was so very ignorant about HIV that she was prescribing HIV medicines which were counteracting each other.  That is how committed I am to staying alive, and learning everything I can to fight this bug that is making every attempt possible to kill me.

I still protest the adoption of "HIV Lite" platatudes, and unsound bullshit which has no credence with People Living With HIV/AIDS, and to that end, sometimes challenge people’s credentials when they present here.  There are people like Queen Akasha, Eric, Win, Fallen Angel, Strong Guy and others who are so offended by my style and my confrontations, that it seems they would love the whole world to be nothing but love and light and for all of us to get along.  We should never question anyone who wants to present as a solid authority on the subject of HIV and all the accompanying bullshit that goes with fighting this bug.  I however, have fought more than one person in my experience who I have discovered to be nothing but charlatan in their nature, and have challenged many who spread false information about HIV, only to make themselves appear better, or to finally get some of that HIV money that the government loves to spread around and does so with no more consciousness, than a ghost.

I have personally challenged the number two man under the Surgeon General Carmona, as I have the President’s Cabinet advisor on HIV.  I did this at a Bi National HIV Border Summit, held in El Paso, Texas, and did it face to face!  I have also personally challenged our dear Anthony Faucci, who has a miserable habit of coming on national news outlets and dictating who is currently at risk of infection with HIV and who is not.  Unfortunately he is so very tempted to dictate numbers that have little or nothing to do with the current state of HIV in the hinterlands of this great sleeping country we call the United States.

I have not been terribly active lately, due to the fact that when I make an attempt to keep the Living With HIV Fourm on subject, I constantly get PMs and posts in my threads which slam my forward approach and my questioning nature. 

Most recently, I was accosted in my thread asking for Eldon to come forward with a clear answer to questions which many of us have about him and his fountain of “Love and Light”.  Well, I am fatigued with the current state of HIV Lite, and the current level of ignorance to the reality that this is in fact a TERMINAL DISEASE THAT WILL KILL YOU, AND IS DOING SO TO SEVERAL OF THE MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN FORCED INTO SILENCE, DUE TO THE FACT THAT NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE STILL DYING FROM HIV!!!!!

So, you can all have your HIV Lite and I well go back to the guest list to observe and take note of the current level of banality.  I will comment rarely, and will sequester myself to my Blog as long as the owners of this site will have me.  As for the NEW FACE OF AIDS, I just cannot come to leave the people and friends I have made here, and will keep contact with those who I have grown to love and respect.  Otherwise, this will have to  be my farewell post from this very interesting, informative and challenging website, and I will be from now on, lurking in the shadows to gather as much information about the “newly undead” so that I will be able to do the best work for my community, and for my AIDS Service Organization here in Arizona.

Strong Guy, Queen Akasha, Eric, Eldon and any others of you who have been offended by my quest for accurate, science based and true HIV knowledge; good bye and have a wonderful life.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Teresa

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,753
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 10:26:11 AM »
Tim,

This saddens me. You are one of the people that got me thru the first few weeks of hubbys diagnosis. I really don't know what I would have done without you. I don't say that lightly, I mean it.

What about the rest of us that need your wisdom and advice?

I love you
Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline MSPspud

  • Member
  • Posts: 613
  • Joined Mar 2005 - Formerly UofMurbs
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 10:40:55 AM »
Tim –

Take some time off and try to find some perspective.  If the current state of the forums are causing you more harm than good, then by all means do what you need to do.  In the future, I really hope you reconsider this position though.  I am not a fan of members leaving or saying their going to leave when emotions are blistered.  There is enough room for everyone on this forum and I would not come here daily if it wasn’t for the diversity of perspectives provided.  If there’s one thing I’ve learned in higher education, it’s to question everything.  I see your contribution as providing just that - food for thought. 

This shouldn’t be about sides, but rather adjusting to the growth of this community and continuing to let your voice be heard.  I for one am listening and still learning!

Fondly,
Jason

Offline Grinch

  • Member
  • Posts: 325
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 10:59:06 AM »
*Shows Moffie a seat over in the shadows with all the others that have given up*

   

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 25,096
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 11:53:52 AM »
Moffie, I am of course not privy to what's gone on in those PMs -- nor do I want to be.

I do know without a doubt that Peter, Tim, Ann and I see living with HIV as one tough row to hoe. Business is never as usual here. Urgency is always the note of the day. And I see that again and again in the response of members here to each other.

Moffie, I think you are doing a disservice to the predominant number of members and readers who come to this site. People may not express it in exactly the ways you (or I) sometimes would like them to, but I don't see this site as being "poolside HIV." Serious questions and issues come up all the time along with other more frivolous exchanges.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I'm actually not clear about what you specifically want people here to be doing differently.

You have your own special gifts and knowledge which can still be helpful to others as evidenced by comments already written here and which others have expressed to you many times before today. I guess to some extent you have to decide how generous you are feeling about tolerating some tiresome stuff. It seems very clear to me about which choice is the affirmative one.

There is no way you can express yourself honestly and responsibly and not run into opposing opinions. If they don't make sense to you, dust 'em off and just keep going.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 11:57:52 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Terry

  • Member
  • Posts: 339
  • 7/13/82 Infected
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 12:09:27 PM »

Oh Tim,

Just take a break for awhile. It’s so funny I wouldn't have known whom Eldon is until you brought him up in that other thread. I don’t find anything he posts as being interesting. As a rule I just ignore anything with his name on it.

I feel he just likes to type “Have the best day” over and over again. O.C.D.

You would be doing us all a disservice by staying silent. As you well know misinformation can be more dangerous than no information. Now go be nice to yourself.



Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,836
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 12:23:51 PM »
"Now I know I have a heart, because it is breaking."

Scarecrow, Wizard of Oz

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 12:31:45 PM »
Moffie, I am of course not privy to what's gone on in those PMs -- nor do I want to be.

I do know without a doubt that Peter, Tim, Ann and I see living with HIV as one tough row to hoe. Business is never as usual here. Urgency is always the note of the day. And I see that again and again in the response of members here to each other.

Moffie, I think you are doing a disservice to the predominant number of members and readers who come to this site. People may not express it in exactly the ways you (or I) sometimes would like them to, but I don't see this site as being "poolside HIV." Serious questions and issues come up all the time along with other more frivolous exchanges.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I'm actually not clear about what you specifically want people here to be doing differently.

You have your own special gifts and knowledge which can still be helpful to others as evidenced by comments already written here and which others have expressed to you many times before today. I guess to some extent you have to decide how generous you are feeling about tolerating some tiresome stuff. It seems very clear to me about which choice is the affirmative one.

There is no way you can express yourself honestly and responsibly and not run into opposing opinions. If they don't make sense to you, dust 'em off and just keep going.

Yeah what Andy said.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 12:35:39 PM »
Besides Moffie, who will help with the balance of these forums if you guys (the ancients as you call them) keep leaving?  I for one am lobbying hard to keep you.  I feel your knowledge is immense and your experiences are extremely valuable for us newbies to learn from.  We newbies are heading in your direction and I for one would like to think that when i am an "ancient" I will bitch slap the young whipper snappers into shape just as you do.  Stay!  You're loved more than you know.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline MSPspud

  • Member
  • Posts: 613
  • Joined Mar 2005 - Formerly UofMurbs
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 12:44:14 PM »
Besides Moffie, who will help with the balance of these forums if you guys (the ancients as you call them) keep leaving?  I for one am lobbying hard to keep you.  I feel your knowledge is immense and your experiences are extremely valuable for us newbies to learn from.  We newbies are heading in your direction and I for one would like to think that when i am an "ancient" I will bitch slap the young whipper snappers into shape just as you do.  Stay!  You're loved more than you know.

Yes, it's kind of like this last election.  There shouldn't be a lopsided government as with this forum.

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 12:50:44 PM »
Moffie,

Call me what you want to, I really don't care. As I have stated in my other post in regards to Eldon, I do not see nothing wrong with his positive attitude. I feel you did not have to put him out there to be roasted because of what he believes in and because he didn't have an Intro posted. It didn't have to be like that when all it took was a PM. You are vocal any other time, what a pm is not good enough because your following can't see it?

Oh, and because I'm not an activist and go to rallies, etc, I'm not worthy to post my opinion? Or because I don't have 20+ yrs of being poz, I don't know what I'm talking about? My experiences are worth shit?This is the attitude I was talking about when I said people look on naive people as being inferior or in your words, HIV lite. Excuse me for not wanting be all gloom and doom about my virus. I also do not look at my virus as being an excedrine headache, I choose to follow my doctor's advice and you seem to have a problem with that.

I don't recall you ever challenging a post I have posted to til now. Now why is that? Because I don't share your view on doom and gloom, and now I suppose by including me in your rantings, there is a bull's eye on my back? Well, let me move that bull's eye for you, I think it would look better on my ass, I got plenty of ass, so you and your crusaders can't miss me when the next round of daggers get thrown.


(Who refuses to let negativity rule my life and has much more living to do, sorry no gun or rat poison by the night stand)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 01:29:48 PM by Queen Akasha »
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline wellington

  • Member
  • Posts: 508
  • Don't sweat the little things.
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 01:03:55 PM »
From where did the term "HIV Lite" come? It's quite a loaded label and rather dismissive if you ask me. If it's a label that you've invented, based upon your observations, and applied to a group of people here, you can likely expect to be called to account for your attitude.

It seems to me that if you want to be an activist, that territory comes with a certain amound of lightning. Make sure you're well grounded, would be my advice.

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 01:31:47 PM »
From where did the term "HIV Lite" come? It's quite a loaded label and rather dismissive if you ask me. If it's a label that you've invented, based upon your observations, and applied to a group of people here, you can likely expect to be called to account for your attitude.

It seems to me that if you want to be an activist, that territory comes with a certain amound of lightning. Make sure you're well grounded, would be my advice.

I'm glad someone sees the term as being dismissive....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 01:37:29 PM »
WOW Tim Horn is reading this....  See Moffie you ARE important. 

I once got a PM from Ann you know.  I'll never wash my inbox again!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2006, 02:04:39 PM »


  Moffie,

      We have had our differences in the past.  Much of it was handled pretty badly on my part.   People were not here in the past when some of the more intriguing issues involving Eldon came up.   They are just looking at the here and now.   They were not here when he was asking for some donations to some fund or something; can't really recall because I distanced myself from that subject immediately.   Don't leave because of a few that don't know the true underlying circumstances here...  It is not their fault they are not privy to it.

      I would never ask anyone to stay... with one exception... That being you. Don't let the few chase your message  away from us,  it is important to most.   Akasha and the likes can follow his advice, a relative newbie and be happy.   This will be my last comment on this subject because to me it just ain't worth it anymore, and Tim I hope you can do the same.   

   Thomas

I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline StrongGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 492
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2006, 03:39:03 PM »
Moffie I've lost count as to how many "good by cruel aidsmeds" diaries you've written, but at least you are consistent.

Putting it simply, the only issues I've had with you is  1) predicting other people's futures and addressing those who differ in a condescending tone and branding them naive and showing no respect for diverse opinions and progress 2) putting someone out on the stake to roast.

End of story.

Whether you stay or go makes no difference to me, but it appears by this thread you have every intention of laying some of us out to roast so people feel sorry for you, write words of encouragements so you stay, stroke your ego, and the rest of us look like we are the bad guys (and you include "Eric" on this list? The guy is the nicest person on here from what I've read. A travesty that you are given free reign to malign like this).

I post rarely and, if you actually read my posts, you'll know my experience with "HIV" has not been "lite." There are people on here who gain insight from your views obviously. Wonderful. You're not going to get everyone to agree with you or like you. Such is life. These woe-is-me attention grabber diary that seeks to divide, malign and conquer does nothing but split the community apart is really ashame.

It's EXTREMELY obvious you have a picture as to what you think AIDSmeds should be, ones view of HIV should be, what people should or should not say, people roles, and work very hard to perpetuate that narrow view on these forums.

Sorry if I don't fit the script, but I'll defend my view and those of others till my death. I'm not going anywhere.

Good luck Moffie and I'm glad this diary or self-esteem booster at the expense of others helped you. I'm quite confident I will see you on here again.

Mikey :) :)
(And if this thread isn't flame-bait, I don't know what is.)

"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline kcmetroman

  • Member
  • Posts: 567
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2006, 04:00:52 PM »
Touche'

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,317
  • His name is Carl.
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2006, 04:09:27 PM »
Wow....there's an HIV Lite?

I just knew I jumped in too early!  I've got that old kind...with lots of sugar & cholesterol and frequently fattening.  I should have held out for this new version.  Meantime...I'll keep hoping for an 'HIV Free' or an 'I Can't Believe It's Not HIV'.

I can understand why excessive positivity without a bit of background can come off as providing pat answers to serious questions.  I can also see why many can't help but support a little optimism now and then.  Without some hope, what have we got?  To everyone, I ask:  Without being able to meet all these viewpoints with some civility, what are we doing here?  

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2006, 04:15:09 PM »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2006, 04:37:19 PM »
Mikey,

I couldn't have said it better!!!!!!
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,317
  • His name is Carl.
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2006, 04:39:07 PM »
LMAO at ACinKC

I'll never wash my inbox again!!!

Oh, dear...I'd never do that!  I'd want to keep getting male in there!  (just kiddin' ya, doll)
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2006, 04:52:00 PM »
Tim (Moffie65),

I hardly got to know you, or see whatever has upset you (since I don't spend a great deal of time here), so, I'll just bid you adieu and hope the future brings you brighter days.

Godspeed and take care,

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2006, 05:23:45 PM »
Tim,

Maybe it's because I don't visit AIDSmeds too often any more that I cannot, from experience, fully understand your decision to leave but I implore you to reconsider and stay.  You are for many a voice of reason, experience, and responsibility.

I know there have been heated exchanges about this disease related to us "old-timers" and the relative "AIDS newbies" but luckily I seem to have missed most of them.   The poll I posted in Off-Topic ( http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=5988.0#bot ), to which you eloquently responded, was an attempt to appear neutral with a situation I feel adamantly about: downplaying the seriousness of HIV disease by the media and others will likely increase the number of new infections.   The poll wasn't meant to be scientific (obviously...) or necessarily meaningful; curiosity compelled me.

Just as there was an almost palpable line drawn in the picture of this epidemic in the mid-90s when protease inhibitors came out (and the media announced "AIDS is cured") in the new millennium another shift has occurred.  (In the affluent USA) People more recently infected are much less likely to experience the horrors we experienced (or not on the same magnitude) in the 1980s while our President and country ignored the disease and thousands died.  Many of the newbies will not progress to an AIDS stage as rapidly as those infected longer ago and, if they're lucky, they never will.  The problem is HIV usually takes 10 or more years before an infected person becomes soi-disant symptomatic (as if HIV has not been busily at work all that time).  Although I sincerely believe HIV disease is currently NOT a "chronic manageable illness" I hesitate to tell others their optimism is wrong.  

The main reason for hesitating is my experience with HIV, and I believe you will agree HIV is a unique virus for each person infected and the "10 year average" is simply that - a statistic which means nothing on an individual basis.   I believe I've been infected for about 25 years but I have yet to get one OI -- my AIDS diagnosis was made strictly based on CD4 count.  I began meds only 2 years ago and I'm doing fine on an inadvisable HAART combo of AZT, 3TC, and abacavir in the form of Trizivir (i.e., 3 NRTIs without an NNRTI or PI).   Clearly our individual experiences have been and are vastly different and I sincerely believe your experience has been more common than mine.  Many newly infected individuals benefit greatly from the 20+ years of HAART experience of people like you.  I cannot honestly tell them they will go through the hell so many are still going through.  I hope they will not but fear the picture is not as rosy at they have been led to believe. 

You are too valuable a member of this community to lose.  Please don't leave.

Boo
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2006, 06:31:50 PM »
We all have HIV.

HIV effects each and everyone of us in a different and unique way.
We all deal with it as individuals.
We all have our own individual experiences and outlooks on life.
The meds affect us in different ways.
All of our opinions are equally valid.
We are all reaching out for help and support.
We are all individuals.

Peace to you all.

Steve
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2006, 06:39:04 PM »
It's hard to speak on behalf of the alarmingly growing number of "newbies" out there (Proud Newbie Member since 2005), but I can personally say that I have nothing but respect for the people out there who have been living with this disease for decades.

Everytime I disclose to someone and am not treated like the walking plague, it's because of what pos people before me did.

Everytime I remember that the law protects me in housing, jobs, and other aspects, it's because of what pos people before me did.

And everytime I pop a pill, I'll know it's because of research that pos people before me took part in.

I'm eager to hear and learn from the experiences of those who came before me; no one else knows about it but them....

However, those of us who were born in the years after AIDS was described don't know the horror of the early 80s, and we don't know what it's like to bury your friends... in some ways, AIDS is still pretty abstract to us.  We're products of our environment, and everything we've been told in our formative years has told us that "HIV isn't what it used to be."  We're young and hopeful; we accept it.

My generation is the first one to be completely transformed by the Internet; we're the first image generation; our faith in technology is pretty much boundless, and furthermore... we're young and not have not yet seen our friends die.

All our lives, we've seen diseases fall by the wayside; my mother remembers getting measles and mumps.  I did not.  My father got scarlet fever.  I did not.  Those of us in our 20s with HIV have been so insulated against harsh biological realities that it's very disruptive to our paradigm that we have no comprehension of dying from an infectious disease.  We understand it cognitively... but emotionally?  No.

Is this foolish?  Yes.  Is it harmful?  I believe it is only when we delude ourselves into thinking that the lives of the Ancients (as some might say) are unimportant or that us newbies don't have to take care of ourselves.

But of all the foolish hopes that one might have... I don't think that hoping that someday science will take this all away is all that bad.  It beats getting depressed about the hopelessness of it all. 



 
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline thunter34

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 06:51:57 PM »
In my humble opinion, aupointillimite has just taken honors for the best post of this thread.

Thanks, baby!

~+
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Lis

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 06:53:52 PM »
I can dig it!

BUMP!
poz 1986....

Offline northernguy

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 07:14:31 PM »
Tim, being new here I'm not aware of all that has gone before, but I'd be dismayed if you decided to take your perspective away from these forums.  On Nov. 10 you put out a call fro the "dinosaurs" to participate more and return, I think that was a good call. 

At this stage of my life with HIV ( a whopping 7 months) I need to hear the optimistic message, that life isn't over.  The fact that you are still here is proof of that.  Will it be easy?  No, I know that and that's why the experience of those who have gone through this before me are so valuable.
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline Jerry71

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 07:32:17 PM »
Tim don't leave the site at least come in from time to time and say hello. After meeting you in Montreal it was an honor finally getting to put a real human being in front of my face and not a damn avatar. Be like the most of us come in say what you want and then come and go as you please. If it was not for you I would never have stayed here as long as I have. :-*

Jerry, Who was glad to have meet Moffie in person at the AMG06.  :'(

Offline StrongGuy

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2006, 07:36:58 PM »
For the record, there's not one part of that statement written by Aupoint that I disagree with. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who do.

The problem I find from my point (and others I've spoken to who I know would agree) is this all knowing infallible future doomsday or specific degradadtion scenarios some (and I stress some) try to purge onto other newbies (I hate that term, but whateverr) when you are not God.

Experience gives you a well of knowledge, but it doesn't give you all the answers or the ability to predict the future.

I'm just laying it out for those with varying points of who deserve respect, fairness, and a place at the table - not watch people get roasted, or put under inquisition in what I believe is Moffie's pursuit to tightly control how this forum develops and is using this thread un a pathetic attempt to take down people like me, while also looking for a self-esteem boost so he can write in a few weeks how he never intended to leave like he has when he posted his other GBCW diaries.

And someone may wantto enlighten me but I've yet to see old timers (hate that term too) be told to STFU and that we don't want to hear from you. That would be horrible.

New voices and varying opinions make this a better, more representative forum, it is NOT a sign that old timers should wither away and not share their views.

For the life of me, I can't understand why hopeful views and new unique experiences being shared make some feel like they are being pushed out. Change is change and you can't stifle it. Progress toward the future.

Mikey :)
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline anniebc

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 07:37:32 PM »
Quote
Besides Moffie, who will help with the balance of these forums if you guys (the ancients as you call them) keep leaving?  I for one am lobbying hard to keep you.  I feel your knowledge is immense and your experiences are extremely valuable for us newbies to learn from.  We newbies are heading in your direction and I for one would like to think that when i am an "ancient" I will bitch slap the young whipper snappers into shape just as you do.  Stay!  You're loved more than you know.

I couldn't have said it better myself..thanks AC.

I was diagnosed 4 years ago...for the last 3 years I have been in great shape, but just recently I have started to have some problems regarding my HIV. liver problems, CD numbers have dropped dramatically etc,etc...but it really hasn't come as a great shock to me..why? because I have read and listened to the "old timers" over the years, I never once became complacent about this virus...I agree with what Fearless wrote in his post, we all handle our status in very different ways, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to those who have lived through the terrible times, those who know so much more than we ever will.

Some of us may never go through what the "old timers" went through, some of us may...who knows for sure.
I would like to say to..Moffie, Joe, Lis, Nancy, Rocky, Rod, Matty and all those others who have lived with this bloody virus since the 80's...I hope you will all stay around and help us if or when our time comes.

This is just my personal opinion, so if anyone wants to have a go..then please give it your best shot...because it saddens me no end whenever any of our long term survivers is treated with sure disrespect.

Jan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline StrongGuy

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2006, 07:47:27 PM »
Well putting Eldon out to baste was disrespectful.

Respect is earned.  It's not automatically handed out based on the amount of time you live with a virus. We are all accountable for our actions.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 07:50:15 PM by StrongGuy »
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline Longislander

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2006, 07:55:54 PM »
Jan, I think you are as sweet and cute as pie, so please don't think the following sentence is directed at you personally :)

No one should be disrespected here ( or anywhere else for that matter).

BUT, I have really only witnessed direct disrespect here coming from the oldtimers to the newbies.

Yes, they've been through alot, been through it all, perhaps.  But that doesn't give anyone the right to smash someone else's optimism about their future with HIV.

Tell your stories, warn of possibilities. If someone is having an easy time of things, don't beat them down, call them idiotic, irresponsible morons.

Most all of us keep our appointments, follow or question our doctors advice, and seek information here. If we were completely disregarding our infection, we wouldn't be here.

In 1990, I met my first lover (lasted 7 years). He was 16 years older than I was, so guess what? A good deal of his friends and aquaintences had HIV or AIDS at the time. I did bury friends. I watched some whither down to almost nothing, thinking they may have had only days left, then thankfully bounce back. Most of them are still around. My lover died of cancer 2 years before his best friend died of AIDS. I've been there.

I have no grand illusions about my illness. I spent a good 4 months on my couch last winter after diagnosis, planning my demise in my head. Unfortunately I didn't find AIDSMEDS until this September. It was a Godsend, pony express style!

If it weren't for the ability to come here and see people doing quite well with their medications, and joining in on the optimism they can show me, I don't know that I'd have chosen to stick this life out.

We've all been taught to respect our elders, but respect is a two-way street.

Sincerely,
Paul


infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline poet

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  • Poet living and working in Central Maine
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2006, 08:00:18 PM »
Huh? There are people like Queen Akasha, Eric, Win, Fallen Angel, Strong Guy and others who are so offended by my style and my confrontations, that it seems they would love the whole world to be nothing but love and light and for all of us to get along.  Tim, I was diagnosed in 1984.  By 1987 I was working as a home attendant for AIDS patients in their final weeks and months.  When that program ended, I worked for the New York branch of the National Aids Hotline where I, and others, made it a point to answer questions directly and not wait for the CDC to tell us what to say.  I was on the board of the People With Aids Coalition, an organisation formed specifically to counter the party line of GMHC, healthy people telling hiv people what they should do and think.  More recently, I was the only hiv postive and male member of PONY (Prostitutes of New York) working with hiv positive male sex workers, NOT exactly a conversation starter in polite society.  I have never, I hope, encouraged 'love and light' where I thought it nonsense, but, I hope, I have tried to show respect for others with opinions which might differ, right or wrong, with mine.  As long as I saw someone thinking through his or her decisions, I would respect him or her.  If asked, on the other hand, I certainly would insert my thoughts.  I wish you well if you choose to leave the forums.  I wish you an understanding as well that I am not whom you perhaps thought I am.  Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

SFscruff

  • Guest
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2006, 08:15:27 PM »
Moffie,

Waah!  You are my higher power in calling what's-his-names bluff.  Your directness is commendable and fully appreciated.  You cut to the chase and say an emphatic NO! when all the sheep are jumping off the cliff!  Check your email inbox...

SF Scruff

Offline ndrew

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  • ....-.-.-.-.-.....
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2006, 08:43:26 PM »
I hope you stay, however I don't think the terms "HIV Lite" or "newby", etc. are very productive for a forum that seeks to encourage people affected by HIV/AIDS to seek or offer support.  These could be taken as condescending, self-righteous and immature (and discourage people who may really need to come here).  Let's work together to create a table where everyone- wee sprout or old fart, bitter pessimist or blind optimist, can have a place at the table. 

WHY do you need to welcome one group by the offense of another?

Luv and support,
Drew

Offline Eldon

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2006, 08:46:02 PM »
Hey Moffie65,

It truly is unfortunate that you have decided to take this position of leaving the forums. I do appreciate your effort with the information that you had provided for the Support Group. In fact, that came in handy as it was shared with another member here on the forums.

In this life, it all boils down to perception. How it is perceived by the individual. Based on the individuals perception is generally the factor which assits them with making their decision.

If your perceive that the Chevrolet Truck is better than the Ford Truck...then buy it! It is what you are comfortable with based on your perception. In this life, each and every one has room for improvement or should I say something that will be able to help us along the way on our journey.

Whatever you decision may be, I wish you the BEST in all of your endeavors.

Make the BEST of each Day!

Offline Lis

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2006, 08:59:49 PM »
if eldon wants to think that Tim's thoughts are like having a chevy or a ford... great... but i gotta say.. they both SUCK!  I think that alot of the folks that went through the move to the new site were shell shocked with all of the new people... and not for any reason then it broke EVERYONES heart that there were STILL tons of newly infected people...  you gotta give it to Tim... he does makes you think about all the choices you and I have made.. and it isnt his fault that some of that makes us mad... it all is in our hands.. Oh, and i want a BMW...
poz 1986....

Offline Eldon

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2006, 09:02:30 PM »
Hey Lis,

LOL! It better be a convertible!


Take care!

Offline Longislander

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2006, 09:09:25 PM »
I've spent plenty of time , and I'm sure everyone else here has, thinking about the mistake I made. I don't need it reinforced. Thank you.
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline anniebc

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2006, 09:18:15 PM »
StrongGuy I agree, respect has to be earned..and I know there has been a fair amount of disrespect between the "old timers' and the "newbies" of late, and hopefully this can be resovled by understanding that each and everyone of us really do handle HIV differently.. but I didn't mean that the long term survivers deserve more respect only because of the time they have spent living with this virus but more for their knowledge and insight regarding HIV..sorry I should have made that clearer.

Paul When I come in here (just about everyday) I love to read how well people are doing, the new and not so new, nothing brightens my day more, because you are right, it gives us hope and that's something we all need...and I believe the "long terms survivers" have given us that as well, just by being here.

There is a line in the Desiderata that reads:

Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, they too have their story...this should apply to everyone.

I never was very good with the written word and in my clumbsy way I was just trying to say we should listen to those who have lived with this virus longer than we have...I wasn't trying to take away the optimism of those who are dealing well with it..I have respect for them all and I rely on both sides, I need those who inspire me and keep me going with their wonderful attitude and optimism, but I also need those who have lived for so long with virus to prepare me if things go belly up....I hope you can understand what it is I'm trying to say, I really do suck at the written word, I'm a face to face person, it's easier to explain things that way , at least for me it is.

Edited to add:...Lis if you get a BMW convertable I want to be in there with you..somehow Thelma and Loise springs to mind... :D

Hugs to you both
Jan :-*

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 09:22:22 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2006, 09:25:13 PM »
Jan, I completely agree with you...

I may sound naive, but if everyone would just listen to each other as individuals with HIV/AIDS, instead of as "newbie" or "oldie" or whatever the hell we're calling ourselves, maybe things would be a lot better.

We can't ask the world to deal with its HIV stigma when we can't get past stigmatizing each other based on how long we've been living with this virus.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline Eldon

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2006, 09:28:50 PM »
Hey Jan and Aupoint,


We are all in this together. Agreed.




Take care of YOU!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 10:28:18 PM by Eldon »

Offline Longislander

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2006, 09:37:09 PM »
Jan, I don't think you could suck at anything. :D

( and I WON"T be gross here..)
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2006, 09:39:46 PM »
I know.  For real.  I'll bet everyone on here would agree that Jan rocks...and you ain't so bad either, Paul.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Life

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  • Member 2005
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2006, 09:43:55 PM »
I talked with Tim the second he posted – Tim is, and will always be someone I trust and listen to and call “friend”.  I listen to you all.   My battle is not with you, my battle is living with HIV.   This is my enemy, this is my foe…  I hate everything it represents.




 Make no mistake about it…. If I cant come here and feel safe, where can I go?

Ok I said it… 

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2006, 09:46:44 PM »


   Damn Eric for a minute there I thought that was a Picasso! ;)
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline MSPspud

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2006, 09:54:00 PM »
Wow, is it just me or has this thread facilitated a decent discussion.  Some fighting aside, not bad. 

See Moff, you have a nac for bring this out.

PS.  Jan totally rocks.

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2006, 09:57:02 PM »
Maybe this is over simplifying it, but for God's sake, WE ALL HAVE HIV. It's not lite, its not new. It's not old. It is HIV. Period.

I care about each and every one of us. We all have our own views and it effects us all at different times in our lives.

In 1984 I told my DR to fuck off after he told me I was going to die and there was no cure.

I used to think HIV was manageable. I worked for 18 years with it. I managed it for 18 years, until I got ill from KS and neuropathy.

So maybe now it manages me.   THINGS CHANGE. So what the fuck is the big deal?  It's my reality, take it or leave it, but learn from it if you so choose.

And as things change, we all need to be there for each other.  Debate is a good thing. It's how we learn and become better people.

I for one, love the fact we disagree. How boring would it be if we all agreed with each other?

This is a support group. These personal attacks do no good, and are a waist of time.

I am on the "last" cocktail. And guess what?

I'm happy to be here today. I am so very grateful for each day. I appreciate life, and would encourage us all to do the same. All of this pissing on each other is a waist of time.

Grow up people, HIV is bigger than any one of us. And check your ego  at the door.
Positive since 1985

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: HIV Lite
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2006, 10:04:42 PM »
Wow, is it just me or has this thread facilitated a decent discussion.  Some fighting aside, not bad.

Yeah...no kidding.  Like a phoenix rising from the flames.  Hurray!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

 


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