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Offline ndrew

  • Member
  • Posts: 695
  • ....-.-.-.-.-.....
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2006, 02:18:53 AM »
Warning:  Yeah, you might want to consult with someone other than your doctor as well when starting a diet

"Five of the ten leading causes of death in the United States are directly related to nutrition. Although most individuals cite their physicians as a major source of nutrition information, physicians receive little if any formal nutrition training" -Effects of a Nutrition Education Program on the Related Knowledge and Behaviors of Family Practice Residents by Jeffrey S. Novick

http://www.beyondveg.com/novick-j/nutrition-education/physicians-1.shtml

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2006, 02:32:22 AM »
Hey Andrew,

Thanks a million for the information you have shared with us.



Make the BEST of each Day!

Offline Angel-Ronnie

  • Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2006, 02:43:36 AM »
HOW STRESS AFFECTS THE IMMUBNE SYSTEM

We have known for some time that stress affects our immune systems. Many studies have shown that stress can suppress the immune system, but other studies have shown boosts in the immune system under stress. A July 2004 meta-analysis of 293 studies conducted over the past 30 years puts the pieces of the puzzle together. Psychologists Suzanne Segerstrom, Ph.D., and Gregory Miller, Ph.D. found the following:
•   Stress does indeed affect the immune system in powerful ways.
•   Short-term stressors boost the immune system. It seems that the "fight or flight" response prompts the immune system to ready itself for infections resulting from bites, punctures, scrapes or other challenges to the integrity of the body.
•   Chronic, long-term stress suppresses the immune system. The longer the stress, the more the immune system shifted from they adaptive changes seen in the "fight or flight" response to more negative changes, first at the cellular level and later in broader immune function. The most chronic stressors – stress that seems beyond a person's control or seems endless – resulted in the most global suppression of immunity. Almost all measures of immune system function dropped across the board.
•   The immune systems of the elderly or those already sick are more subject to stress-related changes.
In reaching these conclusions the authors looked at the effects of the various stressors on different immune responses, such as “natural” and “specific” immunity. They summarized the results of the studies that looked at each of these types of stress:
Natural immunity produces quick-acting, all-purpose cells that can attack many pathogens; they bring fever and inflammation.
The body takes a few days to mount a more specific attack on particular invaders with specific immunity. This response includes lymphocytes (T-cells and B cells). Specific immunity has both cellular responses, which fight pathogens that get inside cells (such as viruses), and humoral responses, which fight pathogens that stay outside cells, such as bacteria and parasites. Segerstrom and Miller were able to assess how different types of immune response correlated with different types of stress because researchers have identified the blood markers of these different immune responses.
They divided stressors into different types:
Acute time-limited stressors: lab challenges such as public speaking or mental math.
Brief naturalistic stressors: real-world challenges such as academic tests.
Stressful event sequences: a focal event such as loss of a spouse or major natural disaster gives rise to a series of related challenges that people know at some point will end.
Chronic stressors: pervasive demands that force people to restructure their identity or social roles, without any clear end point – such as injury resulting in permanent disability, caring for a spouse with severe dementia, or being a refugee forced from one's native country by war.

Distant stressors: traumatic experiences that occurred in the distant past yet can continue modifying the immune system because of their long-lasting emotional and cognitive consequences, such as child abuse, combat trauma or having been a prisoner of war. Much of their analysis goes on to review the similarities and differences among the 293 studies that they examined. These studies included a total of 18,941 subjects. "Stressful event sequences" appeared to be weakly associated with different immune consequences, depending on the type of event. There appeared to be different patterns for grief than for trauma, for example, but the associations weren't strong enough for the authors to make new claims. They recommended further study.
The authors did find that the most chronic stressors - those which change people’s identities or social roles, are more beyond their control and seem endless - were associated with the most global suppression of immunity. In such situations almost all measures of immune function dropped across the board.
The longer the stress, the more the immune system shifted from potentially adaptive changes (such as those in the acute "fight or flight" response) to potentially detrimental changes, at first in cellular immunity and then in broader immune function. This analysis suggests that stressors that turn a person's world upside down and appear to offer no hope for the future probably have the greatest psychological and physiological impact.
The authors also found that age and disease status affected a person's vulnerability to stress-related decreases in immune function. It seems that illness and age make it harder for the body to regulate itself.
This is a ground-breaking meta-analysis that helps us understand the complex relationship between stress and the immune system. It should lead to new treatments and to better stress management programs, especially for patients with HIV or other disorders that compromise immunity.
Reference: Segerstrom & Miller, 2004. Psychological Stress and the Human Immune System: A Meta-Analytic Study of 30 Years of Inquiry Psychological Bulletin, 130, 4.

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=InSite?page=kbr-03-01-05-01&doc=2098.


google this > "how stress affects HIV" and pick an article*
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2006, 02:47:55 AM »
Hey Cliff...

When you look on the site, there is a "free" forum to go to. FYI, I did not pay for my program. It was included in my treatment.


Maybe I missed something, but I have no idea what you are talking about.  What's free?  What treatment?  What does this have to do with me?

Cliff

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2006, 03:27:14 AM »
Hey Angel,

Thank you for providing the reference to us on the Stress of the Immune System. It is greatly appreciated.


Hey Cliff,

Apparently you were on my mind when I was responding. My bad. It was for Hal.


Make the BEST of each Day!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 03:31:09 AM by Eldon »

Offline Angel-Ronnie

  • Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2006, 04:13:59 AM »
Welcome it is aimed that people should see that stress with some can be a factor of mayor illness if one does not take care of oneself
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2006, 04:16:37 AM »
Hey Angel,

Indeed this is a TRUE reality and an "awareness".

Thanks A million.

Make the BEST of each Day!

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2006, 05:06:40 AM »
First Eldon let me say I find it odd and oh so revealing that you continue to refer to yourself in the third person. Second, why in the world is it necessary to compose an article about yourself on Microsoft Word? Just wing it, off the top of your head, and please be brief.

I think a bit of Aidsmeds history is in order for those of you who believe we are singling Eldon out. When Eldon first started posting (I guess they can be found in the archives) he proposed starting something that required members donating money. No small potatoes, he was proposing an undertaking of a grand scale, worldwide if I remember correctly. Of course, people began to question him and his motives. People really became suspicious when moderator Tim Horn stepped in asking Eldon several pointed questions. One question, again if I can remember correctly, questioned Eldon's very identity. The thread was closed and we all felt that was the end of it. Eldon stopped posting for awhile, and to be honest I was surprised when he returned offering not one word of explanation. So maybe you can see why some of the older members are a bit skeptical.

To be honest I rarely read anything Eldon posts...but I do respect his right to say whatever he wants to say that I won't be reading. I just wanted the group to have a bit more background.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 05:10:10 AM by Dachshund »

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2006, 05:15:08 AM »
Hey Angel,

Thank you for providing the reference to us on the Stress of the Immune System. It is greatly appreciated.


Hey Cliff,

Apparently you were on my mind when I was responding. My bad. It was for Hal.


Make the BEST of each Day!

Yes, there is a free forum to access your needs, but the site is set up as a money making entity and you are being disingenuous by not admitting that.

Offline Angel-Ronnie

  • Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2006, 05:25:01 AM »
I have checked out this site before posting them and they have Donate it is not compulsory but it is how you perceive donation as a money making scheme.
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2006, 05:44:28 AM »
Hey Hal,

Listen up. Just one second here. Is that all that YOU have read out of the number of quality posts that I have made?

Bringing this matter up is truly an effort on your part to continue to try to discredit someone who is infusing nothing but positive feedback to each and every one of the members.

FYI, I DID respond back concerning the topic that was posted. In fact, Tim Horn and Peter Staley had responded back to me. Be careful about the things you discuss when you are uncertain of its details.

As far as my prerogative to write in my Microsoft Word with auto-spelling is my "choice" especially when it is need to go into detail to CLARIFY and to EXPLAIN a certain perspective.

I am quite surprised that I am being singled out after (6) six months plus with the infused positive feedback given to this very site. If this thread (in the grave) was that much of a concern or and issue to YOU and the others you are voicing for, then WHY (Oh Yes, I am asking YOU WHY) wait after all of this time. What really is your motive?

FYI - The main main motive behind that very valid insight/post was to administer some type of Charity Organization in an effort to help HIV/AIDS victims. In fact, the post started as a poll and the context of the QUESTION was taken all out of perspective. The site had given the impression that each and every one could join together in unity to create a non-profit Charity Organization. I never implied to any of the members to ask for any money directly. I wanted the members participation and to have some members to sit on the Board of Directors. Moffie included! Again, it was a topic taken out of context.

In fact, I am thankful to this day that Tim Horn stepped in to ask for clarification in order to gain an understanding. He was the only one that did DO this rather than guessing with what was on someones mind. Again, if YOU are uncertain, then take the time out to ASK the poster for clarification. It is just that simple.

As far as identity is concerned, due to the "purging" of ICQ's old files, there was a re-assignment of my ICQ number. In fact, I had not used it in the past (10) ten years. My bad for being under the impression that the servers keep your initial information.

I took a break in order to gain an understanding of your perspectives that were being projected. Instead of constructive insight, it was destructive insight.

Also, again, YOU are guessing and trying to read some of the older members minds. YOU are NOT a mind reader. If there was this uncleared aura when I returned, then WHY,WHY,WHY did you wait and sit on it all of this time? After all you rarely read my posts? Something does not add up here.

YOU are clearly bringing up the past (from the grave) as an attempt to degrade the poster. Oh Yes, you posted it just now. If you do not believe me go and re-read it yourself.

"Make the BEST of each Day Will Ya?"

P.S. -- We all pay for our meds and our current Health Care. Again, you are pointing out things as an attempt to degrade the poster. You are missing the whole intent and YOU are refusing to see it that way.

Thank you Angel...

I appreciate that.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 11:38:01 PM by Eldon »

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2006, 07:58:01 AM »
Look I am not going to get into this with you Eldon. I brought all that up to put a bit of a historical perspective into play. And FYI I did question the poster (you) as to your motives, as did many others. You refused to answer and supplied us with no information. Not that any one cares but check the historical record if you don't believe me. Tim Horn stepped in to help solve the riddle...he addressed issues raised by many members and that my friend is a fact.

Sometimes kettles should not call pots black. Again, I find it a bit disingenuous that you chose to reveal a pm Tim sent you to the entire group. Why was that necessary?

I am going to be honest here and tell you why I don't read your posts. I find them self-serving, redundant, and frankly boring. Once I read one, I felt I have read them all. I always feel that I am reading something someone else has written...and usually it is. Your personal writing I feel borders on solipsism.

Like many folks with HIV, I feel your anger is closer to the surface than you would like to admit. I also find your philosophy to be nothing more than self-absorbed navel gazing. There is a whole, wide, wonderful world out there that only begins when you step outside of self, and stop the continual look inward. Sometimes people are not S.A.D. no matter how hard others try to convince them they are.

But for the record...no matter how much I disagree with you I will always defend your right to post anything you like...even though I will never read it. ;D

Have the best day.

Offline Angel-Ronnie

  • Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2006, 08:28:39 AM »
Sometimes kettles should not call pots black. Again, I find it a bit disingenuous that you chose to reveal a pm Tim sent you to the entire group. Why was that necessary?

I am going to be honest here and tell you why I don't read your posts. I find them self-serving, redundant, and frankly boring. Once I read one, I felt I have read them all. I always feel that I am reading something someone else has written...and usually it is. Your personal writing I feel borders on solipsism.

Like many folks with HIV, I feel your anger is closer to the surface than you would like to admit. I also find your philosophy to be nothing more than self-absorbed navel gazing. There is a whole, wide, wonderful world out there that only begins when you step outside of self, and stop the continual look inward. Sometimes people are not S.A.D. no matter how hard others try to convince them they are.

But for the record...no matter how much I disagree with you I will always defend your right to post anything you like...even though I will never read it. ;D

1. Since you don't read Eldon's posts why are you then responding to them? just and observation of mine.
2. Also I don't see this that he is trying to convince anyone that they suffer from S.A.D this was just a topic of interrest to share with others.
3. You mentioned things from the past and want answers to justify his actions from back then. Now that he is doing this to clear up all this mayhem you still bash him on the way he wants to do it.
4. Though you don't read any of his postings you reply to them how contradictory is that?????

Just my two cents in this.

Love and Peace to all

Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2006, 08:43:31 AM »
Darling, your support of Eldon is commendable. If you took the time to read my original post I said "rarely" not never. I knew this would get silly and I will leave it at that. I stated my reasons why I rarely read his posts and will leave it at that. Like Eldon and for that matter you, I have expressed myself and will leave it at that. Always remember dear, the mighty Dachshund will always fight for your right to express yourself...and I will leave it at that, cuz we know what two cents gets ya.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2006, 08:57:02 AM »
  p.s.                                       

[attachment deleted by admin]

SFscruff

  • Guest
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2006, 09:37:12 AM »
Rusty,

I'm the poster who drinks unpasturized dairy products.  In the 26+ years of being HIV+, I have never ever had any pathogen infect me that could be linked to dietary exposures.  Never, ever.  I've never had a GI illness, never, ever.  I also drink unfiltered tap water, about two gallons a day.  My CD4 nadir was 12 in 1998, my first CD4 count was 75 in 1987 and for the first time ever, my CD4 count was 225 in October of this year.  I don't have any GI distress from my medication whatsoever and every morning I have a fantastic, firm and floating BM.  I know there's a risk of contracting pathogens from unpasturized dairy products, but I've enjoyed two and a half decades of delicious, nutritious, organic, worker/family owned moo-juice products in their various forms.  I don't have lipodystrophy, my body mass index is better than an non-AIDS patient's BMI for my age and I have the energy, inspiration, motivation to live a life that is meaningful, productive and joyous and very well nourished to fight HIV.   

I would NOT recommend to other people, unless I know quite a bit more about them than just a couple of lines of information on a forum post, to consume unpasturized dairy products.  Unpasturized dairy products can indeed contain all sorts of nasty pathogens, but then again, how much of our food supply is truly sanitized?  Well?  I'm not buying my non-pasturized milk, cream and butter from a non-regulated and dishonest source, nor am I lifting my furry face up directly to dirty cow/goat/sheep's udders.  Although...  I also make my own 'killer' yogurt and cheeses at home from these unpasturized products.  I don't share them with my plethora of 'foodie' friends who have compromised immune systems, because there is a risk! 

Thanks for being concerned though.

SF Scruff aka Dairy Queen Darin

     

SFscruff

  • Guest
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2006, 10:55:50 AM »
I seem to be sensing a troubling thread in this posting.  Lecturing!  The Survey lectures.  The former dietitian lectures about unpasteurized dairy products. 

Lecturing doesn't work as a method of changing behavior!  If it did, then wouldn't it make sense to endlessly lecture about HIV prevention and then nobody would be seroconverting.  Lecture to child abusers and they'd stop?  Lecture to litterers and they'd stop?  Well?   

There are engendering and positive ways to share ones experience and genuine knowledge in a sensitive, kind, compassionate and understanding ways.  Lecturing isn't one of them. 

Just a thought, oh my, I just was lecturing!  My apologies!  Darin

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2006, 09:14:20 PM »
Hey Hal,

You have a different way of approaching things. I'd like to be able to understand that more. However, you are gone fishing! LOL!


Make the BEST of each Day!

P.S. --- Let us all please bring our attention back to the original topic on Stress, Anxiety, and Depression. In fact, this topic is just as difficult as HIV/AIDS.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 11:42:51 PM by Eldon »

SFscruff

  • Guest
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2006, 12:18:10 AM »
I have to disagree with you.  Many persons with HIV and AIDS aren't depressed, anxiety ridden and/or unable to cope with stress.  It's not that those of us who don't fit into any of those categories don't have compassion or understanding or genuinely care about those who do, but saying that those conditions are as difficult as HIV and AIDS is a bit much.  I'd like to hear SPECIFICALLY how you think it's just as difficult.  Think of us as a silent majority or minority, which ever the case might be.  There's not a diagnosis nor a support group for people who aren't affected by S.A.D.isms.  Scruff

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Stress, Anxiety, & Depression --- (S.A.D.)
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2006, 01:21:54 AM »
Hey SFscruff,

This information is an effort to share with others who are dealing with these conditions.

In reality, Stress, Anxiety, and Depression are a difficult set of circumstances to deal with. This is why there are programs that are in place and in some cases it is necessary to use medicines in order to manage the symptoms.

To answer your question, these symptoms deal directly with the brain, the person's State-of-Mind. When dealing with the mind, this is also a serious issue. The mind controls the entire body and its functions.

Make the BEST of each Day!

 


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