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Author Topic: universal precautions  (Read 8815 times)

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Offline WorriedWell33

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universal precautions
« on: November 26, 2006, 02:17:58 PM »
I went to my local clinic....and the nurse that drew my blood used a clean needle and disinfected the area on my arm with alcohol.  However, she wasn't wearing gloves during the proceedure.  Am I at risk for HIV?????????????


Please help ???

Offline Ann

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Re: HELP
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 02:48:17 PM »
worried,

Hiv is not transmitted through skin to skin contact. There is no way you'd be at risk for hiv in the circumstance you describe. Please read through the Welcome Thread and follow the link to the Transmission Lesson so you can learn what is and what isn't a risk for hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2006, 02:52:33 PM »
So you don't think I have to be tested for HIV....and start over the window period for HIV testing because the nurse drew my blood without gloves?

what risk would you assess this in terms of HIV transmission (nurse not wearing gloves while drawing my blood)

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: HELP
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 02:58:59 PM »
What level of risk for HIV? ZERO. NONE. ZILCH. No kidding.

And this ungloved incident in no way affects your count time for 13 weeks.

I recommend you (re)read the lesson on HIV transmission, a link to which you can find in the Welcome thread which begins this section. You are worrying about something which makes me think you need to get the basics down about transmission. Doing that will spare you this kind of unnecessary worrying.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 04:18:37 PM »
Thank-you Ann and Andy,

I have always been afraid of HIV, ever since I had chlamydia back three years ago and was cured of it.

I am afraid of everything now.  I am an OCD.....yes I admit it.

the thing is...why is it then that some nurses wear gloves if not wearing gloves does not place the patient at risk?

Offline Ann

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Re: HELP
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 04:50:51 PM »
worried,

Medical personnel wear gloves for their protection as much as yours. Bacterial organisms (E. coli and/or Staphylococcus, for example) are them main things that are being protected against.

This is NOT an hiv situation. Hiv is a fragile virus that does not survive and infect outside the human body.

This is not an OCD support forum. Please ask your doctor for a counseling referral to deal with your OCD. You can't do that here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 05:02:16 PM »
Thank-you Ann,

Would you say that based on the nurse not wearing gloves when drawing my blood means I should have one test after three months....I remember the date....she drew my blood on November 7 of this year.

You are very smart both you and Andy.

In my situation, would you be worried? would you get tested if your only exposure was the nurse not wearing gloves?

Offline Ann

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Re: HELP
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 05:15:04 PM »
worried,

I'm already hiv positive and nurses often draw my blood while not wearing gloves. It's not a big concern either for them or me.

Why do I get the feeling you were testing over a no-risk incident in the first place?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 09:36:27 PM »
Hello Ann,

Well three months ago...is when it all started.  I met a guy off the internet.  We had sex only vaginal sex (with condom and he didn't cum), we french kissed, he fingered my anus, we did frottage (genital rubbing no penetration), I received oral sex from him, but I didn't perform on him.  After this I thought I placed myself at risk for HIV.  I later found out he has a gf and is having unprotected sex with her and other women, plus he use to do IV drugs.

After 4 days I was with him I asked if he could get an HIV test and he did....he showed me his HIV test result and it was negative.....still I continued to be worried.

I tested negative out to 10 weeks 5 times.  Now that I went for my final test .....the nurse that drew my blood wasn't wearing gloves.....now I feel paranoid like I have to go through the window period all over again......


Offline Ann

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Re: HELP
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 05:44:37 AM »
worried,

You didn't have a risk so it's no surprise that you've tested negative. You do not need further testing. You are hiv negative, period, end of story. Keep using those condoms and you'll stay that way.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 08:09:12 AM »
Thank-you Ann

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 04:21:02 PM »
Does anyone know if there has ever been a documented case of a nurse passing HIV to a patient from drawing blood without wearing gloves?

Offline Ann

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Re: HELP
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 04:55:04 PM »
Worried,

No, there has never been a documented case of this happening. As this is not a route for hiv transmission, it is hardly surprising that it doesn't happen.

If you cannot let go of this incident, I suggest you seek counseling. We can do no more for you here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: HELP
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 10:07:50 PM »
Thanks Ann,

But just today (3 weeks after nurse without gloves incident) I am experiencing a soar throat....can this be ARS??????

Offline HIVworker

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Re: HELP
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 10:53:23 PM »
Go get some help over your OCD. Your concerns about getting HIV from a blood draw is absolute madness. Do yourself (and us) a favor and get some OCD treatment and don't ask any other questions about the blood draw. Any way you cut it, the answer is going to be "You don't get HIV from a blood draw". So stop asking. Doesn't matter what symptoms you have.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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universal precautions
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2006, 07:08:36 PM »
Are universal percautions only out to protect the health care professional.....

for example.....in the other thread I stated how the nurse that drew my blood didn't wear gloves.  I called numerous hotlines, as well as the feedback I have received on this forum stating I have no risk of HIV or any other bloodborne disease based on a nurse drawing my blood with no gloves on.

However, by not wearing gloves are they not stating that they don't care about the patient's health in protecting them....or for their own health for that matter?

Offline Ann

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2006, 07:32:50 PM »
worried,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

Universal precautions protect both the health care worker and the patient. BUT... in the case of drawing blood, they mainly protect the health care worker in case of needle stick. However, I know several nurses who find it more difficult to find a vein while wearing gloves and so they do without. This is no concern of yours.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2006, 08:35:52 PM »
Thanks Ann,

Tonight I noticed one of my tonsils swollen....is that a sign of HIV....risk(3 weeks ago nurse drew blood without gloves)....they say ARS is between 2-4 weeks.....well this is 3 weeks after that I have one swollen tonsil.

Help

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2006, 08:44:22 PM »
What is the point of answering?
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2006, 09:58:03 PM »
What is the point of answering?

why do you say that?

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 11:09:25 PM »
Because nothing we are saying is getting through. What part of Ann's reply did you not understand? What part of my reply did you not understand? What part of "You were not at risk for HIV" do you not understand? It doesn't matter if you got symptoms copied and pasted from a ARS symptoms website. They wouldn't be due to HIV. Not from this kind of exposure. I understand you are worried, but you have to go with our collective wisdom here. Stop looking for HIV symptoms because the more you look, the more things you will find that look like HIV to you, where the reality is that they are not.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 11:11:29 PM by HIVworker »
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 11:27:31 PM »
HIVworker,

If you were in my situation.....and the nurse drew your blood without gloves....you wouldn't be worried about contracting HIV....would you go for an HIV test at 13 weeks after this incident>

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 11:49:31 PM »
My friend, I work with HIV at a concentration of 10 billion particles per ml. The nurse could be naked and it wouldn't worry me. I know how HIV is transmitted, and it is not in the manner you describe. So if I were in your position, no I would not worry at all.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2006, 12:37:30 AM »
I am sorry for your HIV status.

I appreciate all the reassurance you guys give.  I just want to resume my life in a normal way.

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2006, 12:50:50 AM »
I am HIV negative. I work in a research lab with concentrated virus. You want to live your life in a normal way? I bet most people with HIV do. When you leave this forum have a think about those people you wish had a normal life too. What are you going to do to combat this disease or to help cure the ignorance that surrounds HIV? Ponder that...
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 12:59:20 AM »
HIV worker you actually screen blood for HIV?

who would you recommend get an HIV test?


Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 01:01:49 AM »
No and no. HIV isn't present at such high concentrations in the blood. We make it so concentrated for use in experimentation only.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 06:55:41 AM »
Actually HIV is found in very high concentrations in the blood.

Online RapidRod

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 07:25:43 AM »
No, it is not comparable to lab concertrations.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2006, 07:33:29 AM »
what does that mean

and rod what is your output based on my exposure

should I be tested for HIV

was I put at risk for HIV

Online RapidRod

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 07:41:00 AM »
You wasn't put at risk and you surely don't need to test. This is not an HIV concern.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2006, 07:48:28 AM »
In your personal view when does a person require HIV testing>

Online RapidRod

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2006, 08:00:16 AM »
Unprotected anal and vaginal sex. Using unsterilized works to inject drugs.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2006, 09:28:23 AM »
At what risk would you place a nurse drawing blood from a patient with no gloves on....at what risk would you place that patient...in terms of HIV? and HIV testing?

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2006, 09:59:22 AM »
Thank you for trying to educate me about how high HIV is in the blood, although as validation for your concern it still is a moot comment. Actually, viral loads are like trying to explain how long a piece of string is.

Whatever someones viral load is, we work with 10,000 times higher concentrations. This makes us all concerned and we know when to worry and when not to. Going for our 3 month surveillance exams is not a point of worry. Uncapping a tube of 10,000,000 active HIV particles per ml requires some attention. Put your 'exposure' into that sort of context. You are so far on the side of "No risk" I can't begin to tell you.

Should you test after a blood draw? I don't know how many different ways of saying, "No risk" and "NO" we can come up with. How are you going to convince yourself that you won't get it from the new test anyhow?

The question I have for you is what is making you worry so irrationally about HIV? What event has made you so concerned about a nothing incident? Tackle that and you will tackle your HIV concerns. Taking a HIV test is a waste of money, is not needed and will do nothing to 'cure' you of your irrational concern for HIV. If you give in to testing you are doing nothing to help HIV education in the world and represent the worst sort of failure we have for trying to educate people on how HIV is transmitted. Test if you must, but do so knowing that it is a waste of money, resources and your time. Your time would be better spent on finding out why you worry about nothing so much.

Sorry if I sound harsh, I am trying to help you understand.

Rich

NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2006, 10:36:38 AM »
Hello HivWorker,

Do you work in the HIV testing lab?

if so when do you consider someone get tested for HIV?  what exposures require someone to get tested for HIV?

Thanks for all your help

Everyone of you:)

Thanks:)

Offline Ann

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2006, 11:37:30 AM »
Worried,

Worker has repeatedly answered the questions you just asked.

You have also been repeatedly told that nothing you have brought here is a risk for hiv infection. If you continue to post the same questions over and over and over again, I will give you a time out to encourage you to get the proper help for your OCD. This isn't the place to work on your mental health issues. Ask your doctor for a referral to a qualified therapist.

This is the only warning I'm going to give you.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2006, 11:42:29 AM »
Sorry Ann,

One more thing, I called a hotline....and they said that my risk may be high from the incodent.....cause now I think I have ARS ....swollen neck lymph node, nausea, cough, feverish....how can I not have HIV?

Offline Ann

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2006, 11:55:35 AM »
Worried,

The hotline was wrong. You had no risk.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2006, 12:14:21 PM »
The hotline said that? They should be fired, that or you are lying. I vote the latter, because as incompetent as we have found the AIDS hotline, I would be amazed they would say test for that. Are they worried about the 1 in a billion lawsuit?

I've told you I don't work in a testing lab and none of the things I would suggest testing for apply to you and I won't say them. The world of high-concentrated virus is different than blood and warrents different precautions. Merely getting a blood draw at our medical center is NOT one of them regardless of the presence or absence of gloves.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2006, 12:38:04 PM »
Hello Ann and Worker,

I appreciate all you are doing.  Basically it was the Public Health centre in Ottawa.  She said cause I am having symptoms I should ask my doctor to test me. 

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2006, 12:42:34 PM »
She is 100% wrong. If that were the only criteria for a HIV test, everyone would have several per year. I am not going to be too hard on them though, it is possible your reporting of the incident wasn't accurate and there is no way to know if it was.

All our advice remains the same and will do for the future. If you continue to post questions about the incident it would represent that you don't accept that it was a no risk incident. If that is true, there is little we can do for you and I would suggest that you move on and we lock this thread. We have answered your questions over and over. So no more.

Rich
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2006, 12:53:41 PM »
Ok how do you guys know so much about HIV

was there ever an incidence you told someone they don't have HIV based on their no to low risk....and you guys were ever wrong.....just asking

Online RapidRod

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2006, 12:58:33 PM »
No, I've never been wrong on risk assessments. Qualifications, Paramedic for 30+ odd years. Living with HIV for 22 years.

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2006, 01:46:17 PM »
Ok how do you guys know so much about HIV


I have worked in a research laboratory on HIV for 6 years, currently holding the position of senior research virologist, and have posted on this site over 5000 times. During the latter I have read all the transmission documentation that is relevant to the types of questions that come up.
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2006, 01:55:19 PM »
Worker,

I just called the HIV lab....asking if they received my bloodwork...the lab receptionist said they did receive my bloodwork and it shows on her computer as having received it.... I didn't ask for the result cause I know they won't tell me.....does this mean that once the receptionist has on her system that I took the test....that she knows the result....or just that they have received my bloodwork but doesn't know my result?

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2006, 03:15:49 PM »
I've got no idea. I don't work in a clinical lab. However, I am pretty sure that regardless of the result most places prefer to tell you the result in person.
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline WorriedWell33

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2006, 03:22:52 PM »
Please in all honesty....do you think they don't want to tell me cause it is bad news?

Online RapidRod

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2006, 03:25:10 PM »
There are no more answers for you here. You didn't have a risk. PERIOD end of story.

Offline HIVworker

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Re: universal precautions
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2006, 03:32:49 PM »
In all honesty it is NOT because of that. In a lot of clinics there are ethics that pevent telling people about HIV infection down the phone. One of the reasons being that there is no confirmation that the person on the phone is actually the person who took the test. Doctors insist patients come in to find out their results so they can be sure they were the ones who took the test in the first place. Stops anyone else knowing before the patient.....

That and about 50 other reasons.

Rich
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

 


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