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Author Topic: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line  (Read 12449 times)

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Offline philipba

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  • Posts: 12
PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« on: November 24, 2006, 05:18:27 AM »
Just for what its worth I will comment on my opinion about the
 advantages of choosing Rio over Tijuana.

 I hear nothing but very positive comments about Dr. Cassavantes and I
 am sure he is a very good doctor.

 But since I understand that he learned the technique from Dr. Serra
 and has only been doing it  PMMA) for about two year as opposed to Dr. Serra's
 8 years and thousands of patients, I would have to choose Rio for
 experience (I already know his artistry!)

 For me, experience trumps everything when I am thinking about making
 changes to my face or body.

 Price wise, Rio is the clear winner unless you live in California or
 nearby. Dr. Serra charges less than half the price per cc of PMMA and
 does not tack on a $200 consult fee. If you are talking about 100 -
200 ttl ccs that more than pays for all of your travel expenses.

Please consider contacting me BEFORE you decide to use BioAlcamid.  I am not sure if Dr. Cassavantes and Clinica Estetica are still using this stuff....I HOPE NOT!!!

 Finally, if given a choice about where I could spend a week of my life
 (95% of it free time)....well Rio de Janeiro vs Tijuana....thats
 another easy one!

THERE ARE STILL 3 appointment slots open for the January trip to Rio...please contact me with any questions!


 Best,

 Philip

Offline burky

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  • Posts: 3
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 12:07:26 AM »
Helllo,

I know many people get very quickly excited when discussing the various options out there... please no flames I'm just describing my own experience and my own alone and also want to hear about other peoples actual experience.  First of all while I cannot yet speak for Dr. Serra I totally applaud his pioneering and am actually interested in knowing more about the timeslots in January (I don't know how to send you my email so hopefully you can tell me).   What I do have personal experience with is this:  almost years ago I went to Clinic Estetica and saw Dr. Casavantes.   I had both Bio Alcamid and PMMA done by Dr. Casavantes.  I have had Sculptra done in the U.S and for me the results did not justify the expense and the filling faded rapidly.   The Bio Alcamid done on my face looks gorgeous and has held up well with zero side effects.  It really fills volume well and Dr. Casavantes I believe has the most experience with it period (I don't think anyone would really argue that).   It is probably not going to do as fabulous on areas like small acne for example but for volume and for me it was more cost effective than PMMA because the results stayed and there was no guessing on collagen buildup over time.   I had two PMMA treatments on my hands and can unfortunately see no difference.  For me so far PMMA not been cost effective even though it was cheaper.  I am guessing that some people are better collagen builders than others and that I am a poor collagen builder (which may be why my results with Sculptra were so poor for me too) so for me Bio Alcamid was an absolute Godsend.  It doesn't rely on the patient building collagen.  Please folks, realize all treatments may not work equally on all people and so being that all this is new and to their great credit Brazil and Mexico have been pioneering some excellent methods please relate what actually happened to you and so then we can all learn.  I can't learn much from blanket disses or praises.  All this being said that PMMA for me so far hasn't been my cup of tea yet, I am pondering giving Dr. Serra a try on the PMMA as he is I think without argument the person with the most experience with it or maybe one more shot at it down in Mexico.  I was so hoping PMMA would work because of the "smoothness factor" everyone talked about (for me its more a nothing factor so far) however I'm curious to give it one more shot.  I must say though I have no complaints about the smoothness of the Bio Acamid for me and I think that was partly due to the great experience of Dr. Casavantes with it and also because it works well for me as a patient.  I would love to hear from the folks who have had PMMA for more than one year what there experiences are and how they have held up and how much had to be filled.   If people don't mind giving a little personal info about their age that might be helpful too - I have a theory that younger folks may be better collagen builders  -- I'm 45 and my collagen builders seem to be snoozing at the wheel.   Then again could have nothing to do with age.  Just open minded about learning.  I am so grateful that there are some real innovators in Mexico and Brazil and that the experience in general have been good -- please also be specific though if anyone had something not so good too -- again blanket disses of one Doctor or country or treatment vs. another don't educate nearly as well as something specific.  I could diss PMMA however that is not the point -- I'd rather learn why it works for some people more than others (and if there is anything that might make it work better for me as I'd like to have as many options as possible).  Also, folks, Bio Alcamid has been a godsend for some of us and may still be just the ticket for some people out there.  Nothing I tried here in the U.S. worked -- Mexico delivered and they were nice professional people -- real innovators in the best sense of the word and I think, in some cases safer for many people than some of the bovine based products we keep pushing in the U.S which are more prone to allergies (or at least used to be).  Cheers and good luck to all!

Offline dalida01

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2007, 04:33:54 PM »
Hi Burky,

I would like to ask you a few questions regarding your PMMA and BA experiences.  If you could e-mail me, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks a lot.

Kinga
dalida01@freemail.hu

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2007, 08:55:01 AM »
i went all the way to miami from texas to have sculptra procedure performed and within a year it was completely gone.later on i found out about bio alcamid and set off to tijuana to have it performed.looking back i am surprised that i took a trip like that all alone,it was kinda scarey but i was desperate.i was satisfied with the results,i just wish that this could be done in the US.i am contemplating having bio alcamid performed again but i would love to hear from other guys who are considering this procedure.it would be great to have someone along who can share the experience!!

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2007, 10:11:11 AM »
Why not try Canada for bioalcamid as an alternative to Mexico and or Brazil?...

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2007, 10:25:19 AM »
phillpba, you wrote:"Please consider contacting me BEFORE you decide to use BioAlcamid.  I am not sure if Dr. Cassavantes and Clinica Estetica are still using this stuff....I HOPE NOT!!!"

1.Why would you write something like "I HOPE NOT!!!" for the product bioalcamid? Tell us what "might" happen. Please supply sources/references for the discontinued use of bioalcamid in your reply. Thanks.

2. Did you know Casavantes isn't associated with the Clinic in Mexico? He was at the clinic until about 6 months ago. He opened a small practice independently, I was told. He does very good work. So does the current doctor at Clinic Estetica.

3. Did you know I can buy a plane ticket from OHIO to San Diego cheaper than flying to Brazil. Considerably less than a flight to Rio.

4. I believe your intentions are to help people. I have read some of your previous posts. Clearly, you are soliciting business for Brazil clinic. Promoting Dr. Serra is something you enjoy doing and I understand you believe in him.......that's great. It's great to get involved and help others. It's poor form to indicate the "other" clinic is less than adequate or that the "other" doctor is less skill because of less years in practice. They help people too. Many, in fact.
Obviously, I defend the Tijuana clinic. Clinic estetica is a sanitary, friendly, spotless clinic. It's professionally managed as I have been there to see and judge. It's a great place and there isn't any doctors fee...........for their HIV+ clients............. it's just a straight $150 per cc. for Precise, one of the recent generation PMMA polymers.

xxx,
Mike

One of the polymer products is approved in US now.........the cost per cc is outrageous. 

(Spell checker didn't catch that I spelled remember as "remmember". What up with that? )
 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 10:40:28 AM by mjmel »

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2007, 12:51:28 PM »
so my question is bio alcamid still being used and if now what are they using instead?iIS tijuana the only place that provides this procedure?i heard that canada might be doing this too.i guess it all comes down to "which location is easier and cheaper to get to?if anyone is interested in getting a group together ,let me know. ::)

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2007, 12:56:02 PM »
i have been to the clinic in tijuana and  i was very satified with the work that they do and the staff was excellent bu ti have to admit that the actual  trip was a little intimadating but i would gladly do it again if i had a  friend to go with,it would be kinda less stressful!!

Offline allanq

  • Member
  • Posts: 689
  • still life with pills
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2007, 09:49:59 PM »
I have to agree with Mike (mjmel). I had two sessions at Clinic Estetica in Tijuana, and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. The first time was with Dr. Casavantes, and the second one was with Dr. Morales. They both did fine work. It is wonderful to look into a mirror and not see a sick looking person.

The clinic makes the logistics of the trip very easy. For $25, I was met by a van at the San Diego airport, which took me to the Hotel Lucerna, a few blocks away from the clinic. The hotel was excellent, and they had a special rate for patients at the clinic. I had the procedure done the day that I flew in, and I left the next day. The van picked me up at the hotel for the trip back to the San Diego airport. There was no hassle whatsoever. I understand that the same van service is available with Dr. Casavantes' practice. Tijuana is not a great city to visit, but the area around the hotel and clinic was fine.

ArteFill, the PMMA product that was approved by the FDA, costs over $2,000 for 1.75 cc's. That works out to about $1,100 per cc! (I had a moderate case of facial wasting and used 18 cc of Precise.)

Allan



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Offline Texgymrat

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  • Posts: 18
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 05:46:25 PM »
More and more doctors in Dallas are promoting the use of Artefill.  A story ran on the local news about it last week.  It stated treatments were $1800 per treatment and most patients required two treatments.  The story can be found at http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/healthsciencetv/stories/wfaa070226_mo_wrinklefill.17bcd5ce.html

I am considering doing this locally but need to research each of the doctors who do this and their experience.  Also am hoping my HIV doc can give me some guidance on who he thinks is good when I go for my check up next week.

Offline allanq

  • Member
  • Posts: 689
  • still life with pills
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 09:02:17 PM »
Texgymrat,

I think the price quoted in the article may be misleading. ArteFill was approved for filling wrinkles. Two treatments at $1,800 each may be enough to fill in the naso-labial folds that extend from the nose to the mouth, but it won't be enough to fill out the cheeks in a moderate case of facial wasting.

I hope you'll let us all know the cost that is quoted after you meet with a doctor who does ArteFill treatments. 

Allan






Top (Breakfast): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress, Zoloft (2), Glyburide (2), Aspirin
Bottom right (Dinner): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress
Bottom left (Bedtime): Sustiva, Trazodone (2), Lipitor, Septra (no longer taking this)
Center: Alprazolam (Xanax)
Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline Texgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2007, 04:26:43 PM »
I will let you know...I have an appt set up for March 28th with a doc recommended by my HIV doc and will post the quote.

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2007, 10:02:47 PM »
YOU NEED TO FIND OUT FIRST WHAT THEY ARE CHARGING FOR EA. CC .I DONT SEE HOW THEY CAN SAY IT WILL COST YOU 1800.00 FOR THE FIRST TREATMENT WITHOUT SEEING YOU FIRST.I WENT FOR MY FIRST TREATMENT OF "PRECISE "IN TIJUANA ON MARCH 9,2007 AND WAS SO PLEASED THAT I HAVE SCHYEDULED MY SECOND TREATMENT FOR APRIL 20.

Offline ARMANDO

  • Member
  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2007, 10:06:17 PM »
ARTEFILL IS NOT PERMANENT EITHER

Offline allanq

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  • Posts: 689
  • still life with pills
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2007, 11:54:16 AM »
ARTEFILL IS NOT PERMANENT EITHER

ArteFill and Precise are both made up of PMMA in a solution to make it injectable. ArteFill is PMMA suspended in a bovine collagen solution. Precise (Clinic Estetica's product) is PMMA is suspended in a water-based gel.

I believe that they are both considered permanent. In both cases, they achieve their results by the body's forming its own collagen around the microspheres of PMMA (which is a kind of plastic).

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Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline ARMANDO

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  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 12:34:52 PM »
THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION,I STAND CORRECTED!!!

Offline ARMANDO

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  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2007, 12:39:07 PM »
WELL I HAVE BOTH FILLERS IN MY FACE NOW,BIO ALCAMID AND NOW PRECISE.CLINIC ESTETICA IS NOW ONLY DOING PRECISE TREATMENTS.I WONDER IF DR CASVANTES IS USING BOTH BIO ALCAMID AND THE SAME KIND OF PRECISE THAT THE CLINCI ESTETICA USES?I THINK A COMBINATION OF BOTH MIDE BE A GOOD IDEA.ANYBODY HAVE ANY INPUT ON THIS?WHAT IS THE PRESENT COST OF BIO ALCAMID COMPARED TO THE 150.00 COST PER CC OF PRECISE?

Offline allanq

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  • Posts: 689
  • still life with pills
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2007, 01:15:21 PM »
Dr. Casavantes uses PMMA, but not Precise. Precise is Clinic Estetica's own formulation of PMMA. I don't know if there are any advantages of one formulation over the other. I think the two formulations can be mixed without any problem, but you'd have to check on that to make sure. The last time I checked, PMMA was a little less expensive with Dr. Casavantes than at Clinic Estetica.
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Bottom right (Dinner): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress
Bottom left (Bedtime): Sustiva, Trazodone (2), Lipitor, Septra (no longer taking this)
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Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline ARMANDO

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  • Posts: 249
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2007, 05:23:13 PM »
I JUST SPOKE TO DR CASAVANTES AND HE IS USING PMMA ONLY .IT IS 120.00 PER CC,SO I GUESS IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHICH DOCTOR YOU PREFER,I PERSONALLY LIKE A WOMAN'S TOUCH WHEN IT COMES TO MY FACE!!LOL

Offline Texgymrat

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  • Posts: 18
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 03:41:43 PM »
I had my appointment in Dallas yesterday.  The price is $1000 per syringe which the doctor says is actually 0.8 cc.  To start he stated that I needed to be test first.  It is an injection in my arm and is to be monitored for a month to determine if there is any allergic reaction.  The test costs $250 but if you choose to do the treatment, this amount will be applied to the first treatment. 

This doctor has had 4 Artefill patients so far...just starting a couple of months ago.  He started as soon as the Artefill was shipped.  Even though approved last November, it is taking some time to distribute to doctors.  He said very few doctors in the US would have any extensive Artefill experience at this time.  Only those doctors in the study would have much more experience and the study consisted of 250 patients across the US.  He identified me as a Cat 4 but could not tell me how much Artefill I would eventually need.  He said he would do a syringe on each side for the first treatment and then evaluate in 6 weeks as to how much more would be needed.

I have not decided what I will do.  The lack of experience is a concern but he has done Sculpta injections for years...so his experience on doing fillers on the face is there just not with this product.  Will have to think on it and maybe get info from another doctor here before deciding.

Offline allanq

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  • still life with pills
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 06:36:07 PM »
Texgymrat,

Thanks for reporting back on your appointment with the doctor in Dallas.

I think it's good that you're taking some time before making a decision on this. Frankly, I think the doctor is dodging the issue when he tells you that he doesn't know how much ArteFill you would require. I had moderate facial wasting, and it took 18 cc of "Precise" (the PMMA product used at Clinic Estetica) to restore my face. I can understand the doctor not being able to give you an exact figure, but he should be able to give a ballpark estimate of the amount of ArteFill that you would need. I think grade 4 lipoatrophy will require a lot more than 1.6 cc of ArteFill.

At $1000 for 0.8 cc, ArteFill works out to $1,250 per cc. The 18 cc that I had injected would have cost $22,500. And I assume that does not include the fee that the doctor charges to do the procedure.

Allan
Top (Breakfast): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress, Zoloft (2), Glyburide (2), Aspirin
Bottom right (Dinner): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress
Bottom left (Bedtime): Sustiva, Trazodone (2), Lipitor, Septra (no longer taking this)
Center: Alprazolam (Xanax)
Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline mjmel

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Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2007, 11:15:09 AM »
Some are allergic to the bovine collagen solution componet. And....the bovine based component isn't permanent! Hopefully, the US will be able to eventually market something without allergic reactive properties.

Offline Texgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
Re: PMMA: Mexico vs. Brazil...The "bottom" line
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2007, 03:21:13 PM »
Does anyone know why the US FDA approved the bovine-based solution over non-bovine based solutions being used in Mexico and elsewhere?

 


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