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Author Topic: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS  (Read 2527 times)

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Offline Robert

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,643
Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« on: November 09, 2006, 11:44:58 AM »


....who said it has to be ..... EXPENSIVE?
..........

Offline alisenjafi

  • Member
  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2006, 03:05:40 PM »
Is this article advocating barebacking if on meds?
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline allopathicholistic

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  • Posts: 3,258
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2006, 06:05:02 PM »
Is this article advocating barebacking if on meds?

  the 70's are over and disco is dead

Offline alisenjafi

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  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2006, 07:38:10 PM »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Robert

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,643
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2006, 09:18:33 PM »
Posted by: alisenjafi

"Is  this article advocating barebacking if on meds?"


Good question.  It certainly sounds like it, doesn't it? 

Quote
Natural Conception Potentially Safe for Mixed-Status Couples

By Tim Horn, Senior Writer & Editor, AIDSmeds.com

A new report suggests that natural conception may be a safe option for heterosexual couples in which one partner is HIV positive and the other is HIV negative.
 

   and

Quote
Previous studies have documented that HIV-positive people with "maximally suppressed" virus while on HIV drug treatment are significantly less likely to pass their virus along to their sexual partners.


   and

Quote
A total of 76 pregnancies among the 62 couples were documented during the seven-year period. ....The authors reported that, in all cases, the HIV-negative partner remained uninfected.

   and finally,

Quote
...(the) conclusion (is) that mixed-status couples "attaining natural pregnancy are exposed to a negligible risk of sexual transmission of HIV when the infected partner [has an undetectable viral load] while on [HIV drug treatment],"


   If this reasoning were applied to gay couples, it would be barebacking, wouldn't it?  I hadn't thought of that.  ummm. Is this a double standard?

robert
..........

Offline poet

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  • Poet living and working in Central Maine
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2006, 06:37:20 PM »
Applying it to gay men and barebacking is still, to my reading, a bit confusing.  I don't see, as posted in the other thread, the breakdown over who in the study, male versus female, was hiv positive.  We learn that there is still potential risk, even if the virus is maximally suppressed.  We know that it is easier for a man to infect a woman than the reverse, an infected woman to infect an uninfected man.  So I would like to see, if it's in this study, just how many positive men infected how many negative women.  I hope that we also get a study in which we document hiv positive men with maximally suppressed virus and hiv negative men focusing on the former being the active partner and the latter being the negative partner, but that is not likely to happen.  I would hate to see a return of barebacking unless and until we understand more clearly what might happen.  Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2006, 06:53:01 PM »
Applying it to gay men and barebacking is still, to my reading, a bit confusing.  I don't see, as posted in the other thread, the breakdown over who in the study, male versus female, was hiv positive.  We learn that there is still potential risk, even if the virus is maximally suppressed.  We know that it is easier for a man to infect a woman than the reverse, an infected woman to infect an uninfected man.  So I would like to see, if it's in this study, just how many positive men infected how many negative women.  I hope that we also get a study in which we document hiv positive men with maximally suppressed virus and hiv negative men focusing on the former being the active partner and the latter being the negative partner, but that is not likely to happen.  I would hate to see a return of barebacking unless and until we understand more clearly what might happen.  Win
A return of barebacking?  I'm not so sure it ever left.

The report does say that in 65% of the couples studies, the man was the HIV positive partner.  And that in ALL cases the HIV negative partner remained that way.  Check out the link Robert provided.

The study isn't 100% parallel to gay men/sex.  However, it does beg the question, that if this study concludes that an undetectable viral load results in lower (possibly no) risk of transmitting HIV, then is this also true for people who aren't trying to conceive (be they straight or gay).

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2006, 06:57:31 PM »
Why the fuck hasnt there been a study on gay men???????
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Coffeechick88

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  • Posts: 431
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2006, 04:36:03 PM »
Is this article advocating barebacking if on meds?
I don't think you can apply this to barebacking.  This article is for heterosexual sex.  They would really need to do a study on gay men before anyone could make that conclusion.  I do know unprotected anal sex has always been the highest risk sexually any homosexual or heterosexual couple can do.  There are plenty of gay men still involved in barebacking--a friend of mine does that.  Maybe if they can see how many are positive and on meds and track them, then they'd get a better conclusion.  But you cannot apply this article to barebacking.
Lucas James is here
Born 6-14-08 at 1233 am
8 lbs 14 oz, 22 in long

Offline Lis

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  • Posts: 593
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2006, 04:59:13 PM »
I would agree with CC88... its like apples and oranges..

newt.. I see your point... but i must say, I cant even imagine participating in ANY of the trials... boy to boy, girl to girl, boy to girl... it all scares the crap out of me...  my husband has said for he wants to take the risk since im undetectable.. I just cant do it with an open heart,(that doesnt mean that it hasnt happened... but I hate myself for doing it) I just dont want anyone to feel like i do... and if a bit of latex can keep them safe then Im there..

I did have a second child once i knew i was poz.. no meds .. and im lucky... she does not have hiv..

Im grateful for the research... but still fear the act!!

lis
poz 1986....

Offline alisenjafi

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  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
What's In Your Load?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2006, 04:23:01 PM »
This study  raises more questions:
Quote
Previous studies have documented that HIV-positive people with "maximally suppressed" virus while on HIV drug treatment are significantly less likely to pass their virus along to their sexual partners.
What does that tell you?
From my understanding of the study it is saying that there is little evidence that men who are on meds can infect anyone- okay the study was done with women , but do you think the virus knows that? From what I gather it is about the pitcher and not the catcher.

And again if this a gay study it's moral compass would be pointing in a different direction.
So here 25 years on what have we learned  to what is being told?  With all the ballyhoo of bug chasing I wonder why there is more  attention to poz/neg gay relationships.
How many guys here are in this sort of relationship-please give your thoughts.

Quote
its like apples and oranges.
like tomatoes they are all fruit-  ;)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 03:56:51 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2006, 08:41:49 PM »
Here's a study being conducted on this question:

http://www.hptn.org/research_studies/hptn052.asp

They're still recruiting for it in Boston.  Any takers?

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Hey ACinKC....READ THIS
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2006, 06:02:05 PM »
Thanks Robert.  We will probably do the sperm washing thing cause we financially can afford to.  I am a gambling kind of guy, but I would rather die than infect my soul mate.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

 


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