Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 23, 2014, 07:06:52 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 23759
  • Latest: JV
Stats
  • Total Posts: 643204
  • Total Topics: 48938
  • Online Today: 219
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Undetectable.  (Read 2622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Undetectable.
« on: July 23, 2014, 05:24:06 PM »
Is this possible? 6 weeks ago I tested positive. Tcell ct 277 VL 109,996
After taking stribild for 3 weeks my tcell ct is 875 & my VL is 51
Doctor says I'm undetectable by weeks end. I really had a hard time this past month just as I'm sure many others have when diagnosed as positive. My anxiety level was thru the roof. Uncontrollably insane. I wanted to just give up as of yesterday. Today I feel like I can breathe a little better. Can anyone tell me what to expect next? Emotionally? Physically? Right now I am so physically and mentally drained, but feeling happy. I can't stop crying. I been crying all month, but today I thinks it's tears of joy.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 06:02:13 PM »
what you can expect is to live a "normal" life span, so make sure to properly prepare for supporting yourself when retirement time rolls around.   ;)  ;D
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 06:05:37 PM »
Blushing...... Thank u. I hope so.

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,572
  • not fade away
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 06:16:42 PM »
i love UD posts

you're doing great, hold fast and stay the course!
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 06:16:47 AM »
Hi Poppy, welcome to the forums.


Is this possible? 6 weeks ago I tested positive. Tcell ct 277 VL 109,996
After taking stribild for 3 weeks my tcell ct is 875 & my VL is 51
Doctor says I'm undetectable by weeks end.
 

Of course it's possible. I looked at your posting history and you don't give any indication of your testing or risk factor history, but going UD so quickly is usually seen when the patient is dealing with a very new infection when they start treatment.

Explanation: In the first few weeks/months of infection, the VL is typically very high (not always, but usually). The person's body begins to mount a defence against the hiv, and sometime between a month and a year (everyone's different) the body will bring the VL down to numbers usually somewhere in the 20,000 to 50,000-ish range. (Again, everyone's different, I'm giving you a loose guideline.)

So what this means is that when a person is newly infected and starts meds, the body is also doing part of the work - as it would anyway - and the VL plummets to UD within weeks. There's also other factors at play here (such as less virus in the reservoirs), but that's the basics.

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.

You've also had an excellent CD4 recovery. If you had been someone who had untreated hiv for years, not only would it have taken longer for you to reach UD, you may have also struggled for quite some time to get your CD4 levels back up to normal levels.

The early days of hiv diagnosis are a rollercoaster of emotions for anyone, but this does get better in time. You're still very new to all this, so cut yourself some slack. You're doing what's most important - taking your meds - and sometime before the year's out you'll probably wonder what all the fuss was about.

As I said, it looks like you discovered your infection very early on which means you started treatment early, and so physically you really shouldn't have much trouble. It can take time for your body to adjust to the meds, so try to relax and give your body the time it needs. Don't make it harder for your body to adjust by being uptight all the time. Relax!

You're going to be just fine. OK?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 10:26:29 AM »
Explanation: In the first few weeks/months of infection, the VL is typically very high (not always, but usually). The person's body begins to mount a defence against the hiv, and sometime between a month and a year (everyone's different) the body will bring the VL down to numbers usually somewhere in the 20,000 to 50,000-ish range. (Again, everyone's different, I'm giving you a loose guideline.)

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.
you know I have the chart for that, Ann ;)



and here's a chart of how taking meds has potentially adjusted the chart for you Poppy

leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline initforlife

  • Member
  • Posts: 244
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 11:05:38 AM »
YAY Poppy! Great news for sure!
I should have known he was bi

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 04:44:47 PM »
Thank you ann for ur response. I'm not sure I understand that chart. Is 875 cd4 too high? What should it be?  When I was admitted to the hospital I was admitted for having syphilis. I was told that's why my #'s were all screwed up. I had a moment where I thought maybe they diagnosed me all wrong because I was so sick when they diagnosed me. I'm confused. I won't see my doctor until August 11. I only know my #'s because the wonderful pharmacist at the hospital snooped around for me. Lol. I love her. She's been such a big support me. I built a istayhealthy chart but I'm not sure how to include it in this post. I hate taking the meds. I always have a freaking headache!!!! 27 days today.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 05:53:17 PM »
Thank you ann for ur response. I'm not sure I understand that chart. Is 875 cd4 too high? What should it be?
umm, i cannot foresee or predict your future* :o so that graph is simply a representation of what you could experience. ;) Clearly with the information you have provided, your cd4 line and viral line are moving in the right directions. So, WooHoo! Don't look for trouble. Things are going very very well for you.

See the chart in my signature line? see how crazy the graph is through more than a decade? That's when I was very sick with AIDS, in the hospital numerous times, on all types of early meds, and having all sorts of resistance issues. See when my two lines, cd4s and VL, split with the cd4s going up then holding steady and the viral load going down and holding steady? That's what happened when finally better meds arrived! you didn't even have to suffer through AIDS and then onto meds before your lines split and moved apart to "normal".

really you were just supposed to pay attention to what Ann was talking about in the first 3 months or so of infection. A viral load skyrockets upon infection and then drops... before waiting for years for things to go south. You started meds probably right along the time line when your viral load would have been dropping - and that's why you noticed such a drastic change so quickly. You hit HIV hard and heavy at the very start and in the long run will be very good because you preserved a lot of your immune system.

Normal cd4s? Anywhere from 400-1500 or thereabouts. Where should your count be? that all depends on your genetics. here's the rub. I bet, like probably every other HIV poz person, I bet you never had a cd4 count done BEFORE you were poz. So unfortunately, you will never know exactly what your pre-HIV normal was.

But don't worry, it's not about how many you have; but how well they work. Some of us have had cd4s under 350 for yrs and yrs and are rarely sick with anything; while some people have cd4s over 1000 and deal with a lot of health issues.

there's a lot more CD4 info in a previous thread (Question about CD4 counts....), and there's another link there to yet another post with a LOT of cd4 info.



*boy do I wish I could foresee the future though. I would have skipped the sex that got me infected  ??? ; I would have known not to force Jim to live through those 60 days of hell in the hospital :'( ; and the other day I would have known that these SC consumers (fellow pozzies) were not going to elect me Consumer Committee Chair - even though I was the only one running. ::)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 10:36:57 PM »
Wow. I viewed ur chart. You are an inspiration to me now. Thank u for ur response. Thank you so much. I am slowly but surely learning everyday. This last month has been very hard, but I think I am coming to grips. Most of the time my mind is all over the place. Feeling Sad, anxious, mad & scared more than anything..also, confused about a lot of information out there.  Some peoples stories help & others just scare the shit out of me.

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 10:43:20 PM »
Just so u know. I don't really feel sick in any way. I just have a constant headache that I'm sure is from the meds. I feel more anxiety than anything else. My mind plays tricks on me. All day long. Where it's getting a lot better it's still lingering enough to damper my spirit.  I lost a shit load of weight do to being sick with the syphilis, and then more with the constant panic attacks. In the last few day my appetite has come back and I gain 3 pounds.  I really want yo have a drink, but I'm scared with taking the meds. Ahhh how I can taste a corona right now.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 10:48:32 PM »
This last month has been very hard, but I think I am coming to grips.
it's all crazy, sad, troubling, and just generally f*ed up at the beginning. In time, things will be better. You'll put HIV into it's place in your life and move on with the new life you have now. The good thing is that in this day and age, the meds are awesome and outcomes are good

don't be confused about the information. Check out the lessons section here!
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml


Ahhh how I can taste a corona right now.
I was drinking Coronas (w lime, of course!) just this afternoon. I don't know what other meds you might be on; but your HIV meds aren't affected by alcohol. ;) Drink in moderation; and don't drink and drive.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2014, 10:53:52 PM »
Lol. I tried a coors light last week. It made more dizzy than anything else. I got nervous and said fuck it! I'm not drinking. Any suggestions for this damn headache? How long will it last? My entire life? It doesn't go away. I see my doc in August. I was wondering what he's gonna say. I really don't want to consider switching meds. Too much anxiety goes into taking this one. Lol

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 11:03:12 PM »
I'm also only on one med. stribild. Once a day.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2014, 09:53:54 AM »
I'm also only on one med. stribild. Once a day.

You are on FOUR meds a day. Stribild consists of elvitegravir + cobicistat + tenofovir + emtricitabine. You can read about Stribild here.

While it may be Stribild causing your headaches, it is also very possible that it's stress causing them, or a combination of the two. If they continue, talk to your doctor about it. There are other med combos available.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online absopozilutely

  • Member
  • Posts: 312
  • Love to chat/text/talk/encourage!
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2014, 10:29:12 AM »
Hi Poppy, I'm on Stribild as well, headaches can be caused by it, but really any side effect is pretty rare now a days. As Ann said talk to the doctor and let them know you're getting headaches, do give your body some time to adjust to the meds, usually a week at most. You keep making comments in your posts about if things are going to be for the rest of your life, etc. look, you're going to have a long, probably happy, life. Your quality of life will probably not differ much from what it is now, other then the fact that we will get old. This isn't what it used to be, just a new chapter of our lives. I look forward to many more years of posting with you!

Abso!
12/18 Infected
2/4 12:22pm tested POZ via ORAquick
2/19 WB Confirmation
2/4-2/19 VL 104,678 CD4 407
3/2 Genotype back, and Started Complera
4/2-CD4 688 38% and VL 1,600
5/1-CD4 592 42% and VL 336
5/22-CD4 732 31% and VL 109 :( STILL NOT UD!
5/31 Switched to Stribild :( I'll miss you Complera!
6/19 CD4 508 35% and VL UD!!!!! Crying at work like a baby.
9/19 CD4 799 46% VL UD yayyyy

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 08:28:12 PM »
Thanks abso. It's just all new to me. I may be a little depressed. Still trying to digest it all. Like I mentioned. The meds really mess with my mind. I'm always tired too. I see my doc on August 11. I have a list of questions for him. This site has been really helpful.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2014, 10:41:53 PM »
I have a list of questions for him
having a list is always an excellent move when visiting a doctor. It says in a subtle way that you care enough about your situation to ensure that those issues get discussed. It can influence a doctor to care more about you - because you care about you.  ;) Twenty-two years under treatment of an Infectious Disease doctor, twenty-two year of medications and lab work and I always go to the doctor with list in hand. Even when I don't have any issues or questions, my list at least has my last labwork listed for comparison.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline drewm

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,158
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 10:46:48 PM »
Congrats on the U.D.!
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline Since1993

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2014, 11:06:10 PM »
When your immune system is suppressed, then suddenly awakened after the initiation of HAART, there is the potential of physical problems associated with the overreaction of a newly awakened immune system for several weeks to months.  Underlying inflammatory-related illnesses can occur along with a host of other problems until the body has adjusted to its new "normal" immune response post HAART.  It comes with the territory.  They treat the symptoms and move forward.

Psychologically-speaking, if you were prone to depression/anxiety pre-HAART, physicians will take that into consideration before prescribing a HAART like Atripla because it can exacerbate underlying depression.  It is perfectly normal to go through a psychological adjustment period post-HAART initiation, which can be fueled by physical problems and/or the medications you are taking.  It is very important that if you begin to experience depression, anxiety or persistent thoughts of death and/or suicide that you immediately contact your physician and/or go to the emergency room. 

Offline Since1993

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2014, 11:37:56 PM »

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.

You've also had an excellent CD4 recovery. If you had been someone who had untreated hiv for years, not only would it have taken longer for you to reach UD, you may have also struggled for quite some time to get your CD4 levels back up to normal levels.

17 years untreated, 120,000 VL, 25 CD4 count.

It only took 7 weeks on Atripla to become undetectable and 1 1/2 years to get CD4 count > 200.  Becoming undetectable is much easier than recovering CD4 count in later stage HIV infection.

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 10:59:47 PM »
Thank you so much. I am unaware of how long I had the virus before getting diagnosed. I still wonder, can my cd4 still go up higher? What are the chances of that?

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 12,158
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 11:06:59 PM »
Thank you so much. I am unaware of how long I had the virus before getting diagnosed. I still wonder, can my cd4 still go up higher? What are the chances of that?

It is a certainty that in time you will see an increase in your CD4 count ... undetectable is the first goal and then all else will fall into place in time . You are doing great !

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 07:05:59 PM »
Going to send doctor for first lab results tomorrow. Wish me luck!!

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2014, 10:24:07 PM »
first??

Best wishes!
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2014, 08:18:36 AM »
Yes it was my first lab work don't after dx. Everything seems good. Re-test sept 9
Thank you for the best wishes.

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2014, 08:19:12 AM »
Yes it was my first lab work don't after dx. Everything seems good. Re-test sept 9
Thank you for the best wishes.

Offline JustSmile01

  • Member
  • Posts: 45
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2014, 03:00:11 PM »
Just have to say CONGRATULATIONS! Recently found out that I am also UD after one month. Love this thread :D

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2014, 08:38:48 AM »
Unfortunately my second test was not UD. My cd4 jumped up pretty high from 874 to 1275. My viral load went from UD to 89. I was sick with a cold for a week and the doc says that could be what prompted it to go up. I'm going back in two weeks for a retest. Wish me luck.

Offline JustSmile01

  • Member
  • Posts: 45
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2014, 10:25:54 PM »
That is true actually. I've heard that testing when sick is not good because the results are not really accurate. Having your cD 4 count jump like that is a huge leap plus I've heard that under 100 is still considered UD to most standards. A small jump isn't much to be worried about. If the VL was high then that would prompt them to look into a different medicine.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 11:38:05 PM »
Unfortunately my second test was not UD. ....My viral load went from UD to 89.
cd4s counts and viral load count are not necessarily straight-line functions. they can bounce around by small amounts before a person settles into UD. Besides ONE test means nothing! Your body and its functions are always in flux, so it is all about the trend of at least three tests taken over 6-wks to 6 months of time.

a VL of 89 means absolutely nothing. ;) Five years ago anything >500 was called "UD".  nowadays if your count is under 100, that's close enough. if your viral load ever bumps up to say 1500, 2500, or something, you might have something to worry a little about and need to keep an eye on it.

I would also point out that UD doesn't mean "no hiv". it means the Hiv viral load is so low that it's too hard/tiny to count. Our HIV never actually reaches "0" because we have reservoirs of hiv that stay hidden. Periodically these reservoirs can "spill over" dumping HIV back into our systems. Our HAART acts like PEP and PrEP and takes care of the HIV but if you were unlucky enough to have a blood test done that day - then you would see a detectable viral load. The cold you had did impact your test. Your immune system was busy fighting, hence the jump up in your cd4 count. So whatever you do don't be surprised when it's back down again next time, because if you're not still sick at that time, then your immune system shouldn't be working so hard.

the gist of all this is: a cd4 of 1275 and vl of 89 is freaking awesome and you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poppy33

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Undetectable.
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2014, 09:22:24 PM »
Thank you guys for the reassurance. It is much appreciated.

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.