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Author Topic: Epzicom and sleeplessness  (Read 1293 times)

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Offline Shayne504

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  • Posts: 27
Epzicom and sleeplessness
« on: July 20, 2014, 01:50:59 AM »
I switched to Epzicom from Truvada last week and haven't had a nights sleep since switching. My Dr switched me because of issues with getting my cd4 count to break 200. When I started meds July 2013 my count was 80, it got as high as 184 then dropped to 170 and now is 130. I'm a 53 yo male and apparently Truvada has some issues with suppressing cd4 counts in old farts like me. My question is has anyone else had issues with insomnia while taking it and have they gone away after a period of time?

Needless to say laying in bed not sleeping just gives the hamster in my head time to run on that damn wheel and boy does he work it!

 :-\
And I don't want to get up and do something and maybe blow the chance to maybe fall asleep!

Offline eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 06:01:55 PM »
After changing E. Timing from morning to evening I concluded E. causes sleeplessness (for me)

Now I take E. Mornings

Fares better
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline weasel

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Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 10:46:47 PM »


      Hi   Shayne504   , Nice to meet you   :)

      I started on Epzicom  from Truvada  a few weeks ago .

      My kidneys are / were ? giving out , so I had to get off Truvada .

      As of the first few weeks I have slept well , maybe a few odd dreams
     but I like odd dreams  :o

     I've had some issues with getting my cd-4's  back up to where they were ,
    I m also about to be fabulous 60 in less than a month , living with  HIV
    half my life .

                                                 Hope the Sandman comes for you ,
                                                                                  Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Offline BubbaPat

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  • Hugs
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 07:06:15 PM »
I'm on Epzicom and notice that I sleep less than 6 hours a night.  For me, its about an hour or so after I've taken it that I get nauseous but that fades.  When I DOO get to sleepů I have either bizarre dreams or borderline nightmares.  I've skipped doses to see if it was the Epzicom.  When I've skipped it, I sleep better and have fewer dreams.

Bubba hugs!
Patrick
hugs!

Offline elf

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  • Posts: 618
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 08:20:42 PM »
Try melatonin (time release version).  :)
I got GRID on GRInDr

Offline eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 04:05:28 AM »
Yes... Melatonin works for me

I think they say not to take for extended period,but, for me,it┤s 10 or 15 mg every night

I had never thought of ┤time releas ┤...I can try...
Although, for me once I start to sleep,its OK

The 6 hours (or much less) of sleep is what I'll get if I take E. at nights
If take in morning, then life is easier

Skipping dose on occasion,as reported, confirmed that E. is the cause (for me)

This very annoying for a working person,since,if repeated, you end up sleepy during working hours

In that respect, I know for a fact that this medication is no Aspirin...
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline CokeZero

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 03:39:56 PM »
OMG thank you so much guys for this thread! I thought I was going crazy for real. I started taking Epzicom for now almost a month and cannot remember a single night of good sleep. I always take Epzicom in the morning after the breakfast but still cannot fall asleep the following night for the love of God. I thought the side effect would eventually subside but heck no.... it is still here after taking this medication for a month. And the funniest thing is when I do finally fall asleep from exhaustion I still cannot pull more than 5 hours max, I just wake up and cannot go back to sleep again. So 5 hours is the most that I can sleep these days. Oh and let's not forget that during those 5 hours I have the most bizarre dreams ever. Ambien and Xanas work for me like a charm but I don't want to get myself used to those medication so I take them when I finally have a feeling that I'm gonna die from insomnia and then I have a good 8-9 h sleep. For the rest of the time I just suck it up - I don't need an additional benzodiazepine addiction. I actually never thought of melatonin but now this thread gave me an idea so will give it a try. I would literally die for just one good night of sleep.

Offline eric48

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Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 04:01:09 PM »
@cokezero

You take E. With which other hiv drug?

Mobile.eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline CokeZero

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 03:00:28 AM »
Hi Eric

I am taking it with Tivicay

Offline eric48

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Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 06:27:27 AM »
Dolutegravir is primarily metabolized by UGT1A1 with some minor contributed CYP3A.

Many sleep aid supplements include St John's Wort
St John's Wort is Strong CYP3A4 inducer, you may want to avoid St John's Wort
St John's Wort is not listed in what I have read about DTG, but not everything you read is accurate and complete

Due to NVP, I have to restrict the use of  St John's Wort containing sleep aid supplements
I restrict to once a week. So far so good

My minimal combo is 3 x Melatonin (0.5 mg) + Valeriane
Some other stuff can be added

The maxi combo , which I find wonderfull, contains:
Griffonia (Griffonia simplicifolia), Magnolia (Magnolia officinalis),  (Valeriana officinalis),  (Eschscholtzia californica), L-tryptophane, L-glutamine , Melatonin, Vit. B6. and unfortunatly St John's wort (Hypericum perforatum)

Some times I add 1/6 of a unisom (tm) OTC pill
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline CokeZero

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 01:53:01 AM »
FINALLY! OMG I had a night of sleep - I feel like crying! And I mean it: literally crying!
I have taken Melatonin 3 mg disintegrating tablet + 25 mg of Diphenhydramine and I slept for 12 hours straight! And not just that but after I got up I felt drowsy for additional 6-7 hours so I believe this combo was actually too much; this evening I am trying just 3 mg of Melatonin to see whether it will be as good as in combo with Diphenhydramine. I never appreciated sleep this much but after a month of daily insomnia getting a good night of sleep seems like winning a lottery! Thx guys for giving me the idea in the first place.

Offline eric48

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Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 06:07:04 AM »
Same problem here

My pb is to get to sleep

Once this is done,then I sleep OK

Good luck with the trial and error!
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,288
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 09:24:29 AM »

I believe this combo was actually too much; this evening I am trying just 3 mg of Melatonin to see whether it will be as good as in combo with Diphenhydramine.


I've always had great luck with Melatonin !! I also understand that others may not.  I don't use it often, but when I do, it does the job.  I've been using it off and on since 1997, and I prefer the 10mg dose,
( the highest you can purchase)


Hope the Melatonin, continues to work for you !


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 12/10/14,  t-cells are at 350,  Previous 8/25/14--- 402/ Viral load remains <40

 Current % is at 13% / Previous 8/25/14 11%

  
 63 years young.

Offline Rem

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 07:55:04 PM »
I've also had some sleep issues since starting on Tivicay and Epzicom.  I take melatonin (3mg) to help me get to sleep, yet I have a difficult time staying asleep.  I'll wake up every couple hours and, even when falling back asleep, I'm aware that I'm not sleeping well.  I still feel like I get a good night's rest overall, but nowhere near like I used to.   
04/28/14 - Diagnosed
05/08/14 - CD4 268 (19.4%) VL 89,672 - Initial Lab Work
05/29/14 - Started Tivicay & Epzicom
07/28/14 - CD4 329 (25.3%) VL <20
10/14/14 - CD4 601 (27.3%) VL <20

Offline eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 12:02:30 PM »
This requires a bit of experimentation.

I have found that melatonin + 300 mg of buffered aspirin (time release) was giving me better nights than melatonin alone

works for me... I wouldn't know why...
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline CokeZero

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 12:38:39 AM »
I agree with Eric; it does take some experimentation; everyone ends up with their own best combo. As I already wrote 3 mg of Melatonin + 25 mg of Diphenhydramine puts me asleep for the whole night but also makes me drowsy for the couple of hours following my awakening in the morning. My second attempt was only Melatonin 3 mg: it put me asleep nicely but I woke up after just a couple of hours and was not able to go back to sleep. So finally my third attempt worked like a charm: Melatonin 3mg + half a dose of Diphenhydramine (12.5 mg) and voila, now I fall asleep like a baby and stay asleep 7-8 hours. Just experiment a bit and everyone can find their own best combo.

Offline eric48

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Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2014, 07:55:35 AM »
I agree with Eric; it does take some experimentation;

You are very welcome, Doctor ... And thanks for sharing

It helps once you visualize that it is two staged.

Get to slep, stay asleep

Elf, a poster here, is a creative experimenter.

His idea of using time release is brilliant... But, here, even bying melatonin is illegal... So no need to mention time release melatonin

And because it is illegal (where I live), my Doc is of no help... same with our local discussion boards !

Elf, and you guys, have access to stuff we don't

Fortunatly, there is (often) a turn around 
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (uninfectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline CokeZero

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Epzicom and sleeplessness
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 04:18:01 PM »
Buying melatonin illegal?! OMG never heard that; it is such a benign substance. Sorry guys. Benadryl should not be illegal anywhere so if you have any trouble in obtaining melatonin go with Benadryl.

 


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