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Author Topic: HIV management without drugs  (Read 886 times)

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Offline Mrmojorisin

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HIV management without drugs
« on: July 07, 2014, 10:44:27 AM »
Hello all,
I recently had a scare where I was experiencing chest pains. Although the doctors said it was stress and fatigue it has lead me to contemplate changing my diet and lifestyle to a more healthy regimen. I will be cutting out processed foods and starting an organic whole foods style of diet. I had already cut out soda's and some fast food, but need to do more. I am going to start exercising along with the diet.
 As I was researching this type lifestyle, I got to thinking. Would it be possible to manage HIV without drugs?  I think I would like to make it one of my goals to get off the meds. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-drug. I believe I am still alive now because of the meds I take daily. Just curious if anyone has done this successfully and safely?
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 10:50:59 AM »
You can't "manage" HIV without drug. Look at your blood work.
Managing your HIV is one thing.
Your diet an physical fitness is another. Sounds like a great idea to find ways to reduce stress, to improve your diet, to get more fit, etc. What has this got to do with HIV treatment? How is it incompatible with HAART?

If you are reading books about whole foods diets, holistic whatever, etc etc, and any book advocates turning one's back on ESTABLISHED, medically and scientifically tested and proven ways to fight serious disease, then I highly suggest you take such information with a very skeptical attitude.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 10:55:03 AM »
Mr. Mojo;

Kudos on your work to be more healthy -- I would also like to reduce stress through exercise.  My diet is pretty good - although I could probably eat smaller portions and fewer sweets.

With regard to managing HIV without meds -- the science and research is very, very, very, clear on this - the answer is not only no, but HELL NO.  Your body is going to have many more problems without the meds than with the meds.  I would encourage you to review Zach's (sorry Zach) posts over the last year - that is what not taking meds will do to you.

Keep the mojo risin',

JM
03/15/12 Negative
06/15/12 Positive
07/11/12 CD4 790          VL 4,000
08/06/12 CD4 816/38%   VL 49,300
08/20/12 Started Complera
11/06/12 CD4   819/41% VL 38
02/11/13 CD4   935/41% VL UD
06/06/13 CD4   816/41% VL UD
10/28/13 CD4 1131/45%  VL 25
02/25/14 CD4   792/37%  VL UD
07/09/14 CD4 1004/39%   VL UD

Offline Jeff G

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 10:55:33 AM »
The bottom line is you will eventually die of HIV without without the meds . If not for our med combos HIV is almost always a fatal disease except in rare cases if you are fortunate enough to be an elite controller .


Online Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 11:05:05 AM »
Considering that your cd4 nadir was 83 a mere two years ago I would wager that a sudden discontinuance of your HAART regimen would cause a quick (very) fall in your counts with accompanying opportunistic infections soon thereafter.

Like others here I highly caution against considering this course of action which surely you will regret.

While I do not know the severity of your chest pains may I ask why your doctor did not find it reasonable to refer you to a cardiologist?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 11:33:11 AM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 11:22:05 AM »
What has this got to do with HIV treatment? How is it incompatible with HAART?

If you are reading books about whole foods diets, holistic whatever, etc etc, and any book advocates turning one's back on ESTABLISHED, medically and scientifically tested and proven ways to fight serious disease, then I highly suggest you take such information with a very skeptical attitude.
Never said it was incompatible, and I have not read anything that advocated going against medical advice. I was simply curious that as I embark on this healthy journey, if eventually I may be able to live without the drugs. I do know that healthy diet and exercise enable the body to better handle HIV.
 One of my main goals is to reduce the side effects from the meds. I believe that if I eat better maybe some of the gastrointestinal side effects may be reduces, or hopefully eliminated.
While I do not know the severity of your chest pains may I ask why your doctor did not find it reasonable to refer you to a cardiologist?
I did see a cardiolotist. I had a full workup..EKG, Chest X-Ray, Bloodwork before they eliminated it as a heart issue.
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 11:35:03 AM »
I did see a cardiolotist. I had a full workup..EKG, Chest X-Ray, Bloodwork before they eliminated it as a heart issue.

Well, that's good in a way -- ruling out such things. Do you have periods of high anxiety and/or panic attacks that you or your doctors are not properly identifying?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 11:46:44 AM »
Mrmojorisin - i bet you can probably improve your digestion a bit with a whole foods diet and more exercise.  What exactly are the gastro problems.  I suppose you need to be realistic but also constructive and hopeful. The combo of meds you are on is not the most gastro-friendly.  Antibiotics for one, but I suppose your doc thinks you still need them.  The antiviral drugs also - this has probably been chosen with care.  Why not pursue the gastro issues with a doc and see if you can get some long term prognosis to look forward to, such as at what level of CD4 you are going to get off the Bactrim.

That is I am assuming you are still o the Bactrim. Also, perhaps there are probiotics that you could take to somewhat counter balance the antibiotics...

And discover if, ever in the future, a different combo might be possible. Because it might not.  Remember there are new drugs coming along every now and then, maybe Norvir won't be in your future, forever.

And I really do think you should be optimistic that changing your diet will help.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 11:48:51 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 05:20:20 PM »
Mecch,
 No I am off the Bactrim..Doc took me off that back in January. My problem is that I have diarrhea in the morning. I have to be careful. There have been a few accidents. That coupled with the chest pains finally got me to think seriously about eating healthier.
 I plan on cutting out as much processed foods as possible. Start eating more fruits and veggies..(I hardly eat them now). Maybe start running. I am not quite ready for my kids to bury me. My thought was that can only also have a positive effect on the HIV.
 
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 05:46:21 PM »
Maybe you can ask some people who also take norvir and PI for some advice about the gastro.  There might be small helpful tweaks.  I dunno.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 07:25:05 PM »
My thought was that can only also have a positive effect on the HIV.
if eventually I may be able to live without the drugs. I do know that healthy diet and exercise enable the body to better handle HIV.
until they find the cure, we're all stuck on the meds. But so many people are "stuck" on daily meds these days, I don't know why any pozzies should feel unusal or negative about their meds.

and healthy diet and exercise do NOT enable the body to better handle HIV. Your body doesn't handle HIV at all. Actually HIV handles your body by hijacking your immune system for its own use; which also destroys your immune system. that's the problem and that's why we have to remain on daily meds. The only thing that reacts against HIV are meds. Of course, a healthy diet and exercise will help improve your body and immune system in a general way; but healthy diet and exercise do absolutely nothing to HIV nor does it give your body specials powers against HIV. If that's how it worked, we'd just be feeding AIDS patients better to get them out of the hospital ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline emeraldize

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2014, 07:38:01 PM »
^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!


Online zach

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2014, 07:59:45 PM »
don't

really

Online zach

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2014, 08:08:52 PM »
  the answer is not only no, but HELL NO.  Your body is going to have many more problems without the meds than with the meds. I would encourage you to review Zach's (sorry Zach) posts over the last year - that is what not taking meds will do to you.

don't be sorry man. it is what it is

@ mojo, take your meds

Offline texaninnyc87

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2014, 09:08:13 PM »
I've been vegetarian (vegan except for free range eggs), running 20+ miles a week on top of yoga 3X and pilates 4X and random dance classes, cycling as my primary mode of transportiona and taking vitamins and supplements for the last 10 years, guess what?
My cd4 count was still in the 200s before I got on meds.

It really doesn't matter, unfortunately. Take your pills and be grateful for them. Try to be as healthy as you can not because you're positive but because you're human.
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2014, 10:06:22 AM »
  My urge to get healthy has almost nothing to do with being positive and more about getting older. But, I am hoping that a healthier diet and exercise will help ease some of the side effects from my meds.
 There is no doubt in my mind that I would not be alive today without my meds. I went from exposure to and 83 cd4 count in just 2 years..
 Part of the reason I deteriorated so quickly has to be poor health..
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline aaware72

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 05:58:18 PM »
  My urge to get healthy has almost nothing to do with being positive and more about getting older. But, I am hoping that a healthier diet and exercise will help ease some of the side effects from my meds.
 There is no doubt in my mind that I would not be alive today without my meds. I went from exposure to and 83 cd4 count in just 2 years..
 Part of the reason I deteriorated so quickly has to be poor health..

In my opinion the answer is no. 

Have you ever thought that these "side effects" are due to your poor diet and lack of exercise?  Proper nutrition is huge when it come to many of the dimensions of wellness.
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 06:59:29 PM »
Part of the reason I deteriorated so quickly has to be poor health..
We are trying to dissuade you of these beliefs about HIV.  In all likelihood your genetics determined your progression rate.
I was perfectly healthy and HAD to be on HAART in a few short months and the experts explained, it's simply a genetic crap shoot.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online zach

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 08:56:28 PM »
your entire train of thought is dangerous

do not go down this path

here be dragons

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV management without drugs
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 10:03:46 PM »
  My urge to get healthy has almost nothing to do with being positive and more about getting older. But, I am hoping that a healthier diet and exercise will help ease some of the side effects from my meds.

I think his part is great and wish you a great success. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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