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Author Topic: I need advice PLEASE  (Read 2044 times)

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Offline jeremybelmondo

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I need advice PLEASE
« on: June 30, 2014, 01:07:30 PM »
So I met this guy at a spa, and we went fucking. I am POZ, and have been taking Atripla for a year now, and mi HIV status is undetectable, so I was bottoming, but he didn't wear a condom. I wasn't much worried, since I thought it would be that one time and me being the bottom and undetectable, he was at a very low risk of getting infected. Soon after the fuck we started chating, and decided to go eating and we've been going out for three days now. Now I'm feeling really guilty since I haven't told him, I know I should, and now I don't know what to do. Have you ever been in this situation, what would you advice me to do?

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 01:32:15 PM »
You know what the right thing IS so why don't you just DO IT!
Besides aren't you afraid of catching another std, that would complicate your life even more.. right?

Offline Tonny2

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 01:38:07 PM »
 8)Hi jeremy

I think you are right about you saying the chances of infecing him are low...I have a friend that went through this before, I will tell you what I said to my friend, if you are planning in a relationship with this guy, you have to be HONEST, otherwise just forget about it and if you keep having sex, protect yourself there are a lot of other STD that you may get, Ok?...good luck...ojo

Online Jeff G

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 01:43:51 PM »
Welcome to the forums . You will get plenty of opinions on this but here is my 2 cents worth on partially addressing the issue . 

There are legal ramifications to to having sex while poz to be considered that is a fact we must live with right or wrong . The other thing is its my opinion and a strong one on my part is that if you are having bareback sex you need to disclose your status before sex .

Just my opinion for what its worth .

Offline jeremybelmondo

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 02:09:08 PM »
Hey pochas2

Thanks for the reply, I think you're right, I am actually planning on meeting him tomorrow and tell him all about it. God knows I'm scared as hell but is the right thing to do. May I ask how did it go to your friend, in case he did tell the guy?

Offline Theyer

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 02:21:52 PM »
Its the only decision to make ,hope all goes well for you both
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Online zach

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 02:36:28 PM »
no brainer, a2l is right, you know what the right thing to do is. statistics of the risk of transmission would have been a great topic before the barebacking began. now, you've stepped in it, time to clean it off your shoe and keep walking.

gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 08:38:49 PM »
I wouldn't come right out and say it.  I think I would first put my toes in the water so to speak and just bring it up casually and see what his reaction is to it.

Throw it in the conversation by saying something like 'What are your thought about HIV.  something like that
11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
06/10/2012  cd4-614, vl-UD
12/14/2012  cd4-764, vl-UD
09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Offline Tonny2

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 08:49:57 PM »
Hey pochas2

Thanks for the reply, I think you're right, I am actually planning on meeting him tomorrow and tell him all about it. God knows I'm scared as hell but is the right thing to do. May I ask how did it go to your friend, in case he did tell the guy?

hey jeremy, Jeff, as usual, ihe is right, but I think that is more difficult to deal with your conscience, being a decent person, you seem to be by feeling this way, than dealing with the law, I think, just my opinion....about my friend I will send you a PM, I just can tell you here that my friend got through this positevely, ...ojo

Offline stuka

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 09:47:19 PM »
I am forever grateful to the guy, who used to share needles with me, who told me to get tested ASAP! He saved my life!

If you are scared to tell him yourself you can always call the health department and give his information to them. They will then inform him that he was possibly exposed and he would need to get tested.


Offline harleymc

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 05:29:44 AM »
Before anybody beats up anymore on a person who has been taking their meds and having an undetectable viral load. All very reponsible stuff.

So stuka met this guy at a spa and the person, who has not disclosed their status either, fucked stuka without a condom.....

How precisely was the top coerced? He wasn't!

Sounds like the top was irresponsible.

Offline BT65

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 05:41:08 AM »
You know what the right thing IS so why don't you just DO IT!
Besides aren't you afraid of catching another std, that would complicate your life even more.. right?

I just got a mod report about this particular post.  While it may seem abrasive, the OP asked for honest opinions, and this was one.  I don't believe Almost2late meant any harm by it.  Besides that, this was from June and there was no other mod report. 

Almost, while I would not find anything wrong with your post, for newer members you may want to put on kid gloves for the first few answers to their questions. 

Otherwise, I am not doing anything else regarding this report.

Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Online zach

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 05:59:09 AM »
see that pink elephant in the corner?

we are all responsible for the choices we make. i think we should take personal responsibility for our own behavior, and not deflect it onto someone that has been placed at risk without disclosure through a lie of omission.

don't kid yourselves, not disclosing equates to lying to the partner. 

having unsafe high risk sex, is reckless and irresponsible. and most of us are here for doing exactly that.

not disclosing positive status, entering into an intimate relationship? immoral and wrong in my book. bottom or not, UD or not, disclose and give the potential partner the opportunity to make an informed decision

the statistical likelihood of transmission is not our choice to shoulder

there was a positive artist brought up today in another thread, some powerful work he did.

a line from one of his works

discard after use



 
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline BT65

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 06:09:43 AM »
Zach, while I totally agree we are responsible to disclose prior to risky sexual activity, the "other person" also has responsibility to protect him/herself.  It is not 100% the fault of the HIV+ person in a sexual situation, if an HIV- person turns out positive.  Both share responsibility. 

If I have sex with someone without using a condom and end up with the clap, I would not blame the other person.  If I did not insist on using a condom, I would accept responsibility.

Now, this is not a pass on not disclosing to others.  But, I like to keep the big picture in mind with this subject.  The criminalizing of this virus has been a very sore subject with me ever since it became a crime.  I do not believe in criminalizing a virus, HIV or anything else.  I do believe in disclosing as I said, so please no one get up in arms thinking I'm encouraging us pozzies to go out and start having unprotected, undisclosed risky sexual activity.

Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Online zach

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 06:50:51 AM »
i'm talking about morality, not legality, no one gets a free pass
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline BT65

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 07:25:25 AM »
i'm talking about morality, not legality, no one gets a free pass

And I guess I thought I made that distinction by stating I do not believe in not disclosing, but I hate the criminalizing of a virus.  I guess I wasn't clear.

So, while for my own peace of mind (I hate the word "moral"), I would disclose, I would not want to be prosecuted by someone who was pissed off, screaming I did not disclose, even if I did.

To me, to say someone is not acting "moral" implies judgment.  I realize that is not the same for everyone.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 09:35:31 AM »
If you reverse roles, what would you want your partner to do?

Also ask yourself whether your desire to disclose is to help this person or just relieve your feelings of guilt.

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 10:33:51 AM »
Doing the right thing is to not infect anyone further than myself.. whether they know of my status or not, the responsibility is mine because I KNOW my status.. Even if I were undetectable, I still would use a condom and disclose my status to my partner.. I don't even want to mix my hiv with someone else's hiv.

I think its sad that passing hiv is considered a crime in some states but there are a few people who knowingly pass it to others maliciously, making the stigma worst for us all

Offline Tonny2

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 12:39:44 PM »
ojo   Hi evereone

I'm with Zack and almost2late on this, its a matter of priciple, if I were to have sex with someone and this person would want to use a condom, I would advise him, knowing what all of us go through living with this virus....and almost2late, I do thin that'is crimanal for someone who is passing this virus to other, knoqing that he/she is infected with the virus....ojo

Online zach

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 03:52:28 PM »
for the permanent record on this topic

i am 100% opposed to criminalization


gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline stuka

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 04:47:07 PM »
Before anybody beats up anymore on a person who has been taking their meds and having an undetectable viral load. All very reponsible stuff.

So stuka met this guy at a spa and the person, who has not disclosed their status either, fucked stuka without a condom.....

How precisely was the top coerced? He wasn't!

Sounds like the top was irresponsible.

umm... excuse me but I am not the OP who went to the spa.

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 05:47:11 PM »
I just got a mod report about this particular post.  While it may seem abrasive, the OP asked for honest opinions, and this was one.  I don't believe Almost2late meant any harm by it.  Besides that, this was from June and there was no other mod report. 

Almost, while I would not find anything wrong with your post, for newer members you may want to put on kid gloves for the first few answers to their questions. 

Otherwise, I am not doing anything else regarding this report.

Betty


Just noticed this in the thread so I will address it.. My intentions was to give sound advise and not offend the OP.. In the future I'll try and be a little less direct with new folks ( I honestly had no idea he was new )..I'm not here trying to piss people off.. just giving my opinion.

My sincere apologies to you Jeremy and I hope it all worked out for you




Offline harleymc

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2014, 09:42:11 AM »
Disclosure never stops transmissions.  The idiots who rely on disclosure to 'inform' them who it is safe to have risky sex with, get reassured by disclosure and go on to make the same mistakes with others.

All disclosure does is to add to stigma.

Online Jeff G

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2014, 10:13:24 AM »

All disclosure does is to add to stigma.

I strongly disagree with this statement . The more we are open about our HIV status the more people are willing to talk about the virus and become comfortable discussing it .

Offline absopozilutely

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2014, 02:03:17 AM »
Disclosure eradicates stigma as it opens conversation and dialogue. Saying it adds to stigma is ludicrous! It helps educate people!
12/18 Infected
2/4 12:22pm tested POZ via ORAquick
2/19 WB Confirmation
2/4-2/19 VL 104,678 CD4 407
3/2 Genotype back, and Started Complera
4/2-CD4 688 38% and VL 1,600
5/1-CD4 592 42% and VL 336
5/22-CD4 732 31% and VL 109 :( STILL NOT UD!
5/31 Switched to Stribild :( I'll miss you Complera!
6/19 CD4 508 35% and VL UD!!!!! Crying at work like a baby.
9/19 CD4 799 46% VL UD yayyyy

Offline BT65

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2014, 07:17:41 AM »
Disclosure never stops transmissions.  The idiots who rely on disclosure to 'inform' them who it is safe to have risky sex with, get reassured by disclosure and go on to make the same mistakes with others.

All disclosure does is to add to stigma.

I disagree with this also.  Disclosure does not add to stigma, not disclosing does.  If we do not disclose, then others will say "see, all they want to do is add others to their misery, we knew it all along."  If we disclose, as someone said, it opens up conversations that may have not otherwise taken place.  It can encourage HIV education, and the idea that HIV+ folk do give others choices.  And if the other person rejects the HIV+ person after the disclosure, at least the person rejecting can say (s)he was given the choice.  And we wouldn't want someone who would reject us for something that is a part of us.

For the record, I am for disclosure.  I am not for criminalization of a virus; however, I do not believe it is okay to not disclose.  While I would never pass judgment on a person who does not disclose (because I believe adults are responsible for their sexual health), I would always advise disclosing.  I always have, and always will.

Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2014, 11:18:37 AM »
I actually don't believe in HIV specific criminalization either and I happen to live in a state where its law

Online Jeff G

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »
When I see people grappling with disclosure issues many times its because they have not come to terms and made that uneasy peace with their diagnosis ... for the first year of my diagnosis I was one of those people.

It is a reality that to disclose an HIV status can lead to acts of violence and financial hardships for some people and that is a topic in itself . I personally believe that a person who is sexually active should disclose and that disclosure is yet another box to be checked on why HIV sucks but the hard reality is with an HIV infection also comes a responsibility that may be a burden but a responsibility all the same .

Putting aside the legal aspects and the fact that if you have protected sex or are undetectable its not possible to to pass the virus on I have another personal reason for disclosure . Early on in my infection I had protected sex with a hook up who asked me to go on a date when we ran into each other again . I disclosed my status to him and he was gracious but frightened due to his limited knowledge of HIV . The sex I had with this person was not worth the hurt and fear he went through and I never did that again, ever .

The guy was a good man who needed to learn some more about HIV and I could have saved him a day of pain if I had only told him to begin with . The ends and outs of disclosure are not as complicated as the emotional reasons that holds us back from doing it in the first place .   


Offline jeremybelmondo

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2014, 02:19:43 PM »
hey everyone it's me again, first of all almost2late, I didn't take it as a rude reply the one you gave and all of the advice given here has been welcome. Tomorrow he'll be going for the results of his test, he said he didn't want me going along with him. wE'RE both hoping for the best. Our dynamic has being weird ever since we've been trying to be friends but whenever I try to talk about the subject he just avoids it. I know it's normal since he's scared. And while I hope everything turns out all right, recent covnersations had led me to believe is not the first time he's been having unprotected sex, but I was the first peron ever to tell him about his status, which raises a few doubts in my head. sure there's a long way to go with both of us. I'll let you know how it all turned out. Thanks for all your comments and advice

Offline newt

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2014, 04:04:50 PM »
Do let us know what happens, you are a great guy in that you decided to talk about HIV, not enough people do. You and I and the world knows the risk of transmission is close to zero (but not zero). Perhaps you have even done hime a favour raising the question of HIV status in his head.

But you are not his mother, he has to find his own way with this now. And there are many possibilities for him avoiding the subject, he's guilty, he's positive and guilty, he does it often and it's too close to home, he doesn't do it often and he's too close to home etc....

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Tonny2

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2014, 04:49:06 PM »



    Hi Jeremy..congratulations for doing the right thing, you will feel better with yourself and remember if you are going to start a relationship its better to start with the right foot, COMPRENDE?...let's us know what happens , please, and its most likely he is negative, cause of the low risk during your sex encounter with him, but the test its the only way for you two, to find out either way...good luck   ojo

Offline mecch

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2014, 05:26:15 PM »
recent covnersations had led me to believe is not the first time he's been having unprotected sex,

As they say in France, no shit Sherlock. (They don't say that in France.)  We meet a guy at a "spa" (sex sauna?) and the guy barebacks no questioned asked.  Yeah the guy has had bareback sex before.  In 99% of the cases...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline newt

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2014, 05:44:12 PM »
Quote
its most likely he is negative

This is a great presumption; he may well already be HIV-positive (see "no shit Sherlock" comment above).

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2014, 07:14:59 PM »
Hey Jeremy, good to see you back here and thanks for straightening that out for me.. I thought I offended you but maybe I offended someone else and they reported me to the moderators, that'll teach me not to capitalize a couple of words.. Glad all is going well for you and hope all goes fine for your friend, best of luck :)

Offline newtome

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2014, 10:09:41 PM »
Hi Jeremy --

I am operating under the assumption that the "spa" was a bath house.  If so, then from an ethical and legal standpoint, it seems that it would be incumbent upon both persons to disclose or ask about status prior to engaging in sex.  Given such an environment and the laws regarding transmissions of STD's of any sort (HIV is not necessarily an STD, however)  would require disclosure of herpes, HPV, gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, thrush (arguably) etc etc.  This conversation, obviously, did not take place.  While the onus (note that changing the first letter of that word to "a" makes this funnier) is on people who know their HIV poz status to disclose, at the same time the presumably non-HIV partner has not a few obligations as well. 

To insure a defense from your own personal legal liability (which should be a lower risk, because the other person would have to admit they were trolling for sex at a bathhouse and who would do that?)  you should always disclose, even in that environment.  However, I disagree that disclosure in that environment combats stigma. 

It may deepen it.  In other words, if you had disclosed, would he have had a sudden revelation that HIV is what you get for existing in that place at that time?  Would he have run out, vowing never to return, until he was horny next month?  Thereby not only stigmatizing HIV on a universal level, i.e. this is where one goes to get it, but also stigmatizing him on a personal level, i.e. his nature forces him to seek out intimacy in such a place.  It's a sick cycle.

I am against HIV criminalization laws as they currently stand.  They are a product of public fear and ignorance in the face of a confusing and frightening time.  Approximately seventeen years after the beginning of the AIDS crisis similar emotions gave birth to the Patriot Act.  Dissimilar circumstance, but another example of fear passing laws that significantly impact our liberties and human rights.

Disclosure is important and disclosure at a bathhouse in the middle of passion may stop/slow the spread of HIV.  However, the important disclosure to our loved ones and friends is what will be truly educational and transformative.  Yet that is not possible in so many cases, due in part, if not in large part to the stigma of where HIV is contracted...at the "spa"...when you're lonely... and in need of intimacy.  (You know intimacy, I know it, we have been taught it.  It's okay to f*** your wife up the ass as long as you are married.  It's okay to F** your secretary up the a** if you are not getting any from the wife. Unmarried straight guys in the back of the car get a pass on that the married part because girlfriends are just training.  Also, they can't get pregnant that way which is a sure sign that the girl has been F***ing.)

Dark humor to make a point.  And the point is you should always disclose legally as should your partner as to any STD.  When it comes to those and those like us, in the environment you were in, we need to disclose to protect ourselves legally, but not to avoid stigma. 

Your situation is difficult and you did the right and painful thing.  It was the right thing to do.  Repeat the right thing.  I hope that he does the right thing as well and realizes that in the face of an incredibly emotionally and legally fraught decision, you showed yourself as being an honest, forthright guy that he should pursue because of the rare and special qualities you possess.

Best,

NTM


Offline mecch

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2014, 11:29:25 PM »
Newtome - there are many places where non disclosure is NOT a crime. There are places where transmission is not a crime.  You seem to be making a one size fits all argument about the necessity of disclosing for legal reasons but some people have to worry about this more than others.

Also, have you ever been to a  bath house? Sex club? Exchangist party? Cruisy place? Are you speaking from experience or hypothetically?

I remember the handful of times in sauna I have stopped in the middle of the act when arriving at the butt hole to see a field of warts. I always told the person why - you have warts and probably should see a doctor and get treated - hahahahaha pretty wide ranging reactions which always included surprise that I was stopping, and talking about an STD in the heat of passion, and not going on.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Almost2late

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2014, 11:46:38 PM »
Hey New, didn't quite get the whole intimacy/dark humor part.. seemed kinda heterophobic.

Offline jeremybelmondo

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2014, 04:08:25 PM »
the results are in!! HIV negative  :D OMG I'm literally crying, thanks everyone for their support and advice in this forum

Offline Tonny2

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Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2014, 08:21:12 PM »



    ojo    congratulations Jeremy, now you can mend your mistake and try to recuperate this guy, if no, you have to learn from this situation and do everything differently, OK?     

   hugs     ;p

Offline newtome

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  • Posts: 18
Re: I need advice PLEASE
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2014, 09:03:52 PM »
Jeremy --

I am so relieved for you and doing a little jump for joy in my heart :)!!  Please update us on what happens. 

Mecch -- Yes kind of one size fits all, but unless one is familiar with the laws in every state, country, county etc etc, better to mount (HA!) a good defense from the outset. 

Yes speaking from experience.  Although likely not where I got HIV.  Anal warts kind of announce themselves and are somewhat of a boner shrinker.  The situational comedy of such an event though does bring a smirk to my face.

A2L -- Not heterophobic.  What happened was this.  I found the topic of stigma interesting and complex, which prompted me to want to write and pry apart my thoughts on it a bit and get feed back for further thought/discussion.  At some point certain concepts started to coalesce and imagery started taking over in place of linear thought.  So the "dark humor" part had more to do with a kind of deconstruction in which the other was juxtaposed against the subject.  There should be some further illustration of the other's observation of the subject in pubic displays of intimacy such as holding hands and walking arm and arm thereby framing the real point that the public displays of intimacy by the subject imply a carnal intimacy, which no one thinks twice about, while such a public display of intimacy by the other immediately culls to the mind of the subject the forbidden/demonized carnal intimacy of the other.  Said another way, it was an incomplete thought on the nature and sources of stigma. 

Sweet Baby Jesus.  This thread did get my mind going.  Nice.  Have had not this kind of internal dialogue in years.

THANKS JEREMY, MECCH, A2L, JEFF AND ALL OTHERS. 

NTM

 


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