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Author Topic: Abuse or not to abuse?  (Read 3785 times)

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Offline Queen Tokelove

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  • Smokey the Smurf
Abuse or not to abuse?
« on: November 05, 2006, 09:47:44 PM »
I am a lil disturbed. I was not gonna mention it but it bothered me so much that I figured I should speak on it.
Last night, I had a hard time sleeping, so I came on here and started reading posts. I went to my normal forums that I like to check out daily. There wasn't much going on here, so I decided to go to the Am I infected and the I just tested poz forums.

What bothered me was that when reading posts in these forums, I have notied how people will ask the same question over and over after they have received an answer. And some would take it to the extreme by making a new screen name and ask the same question. I noticed that Ann called them on this which I thought was great. I also commented on this as well. I'm too new to this site, I do not know how to pull up posts from other forums here. I was not trying to poke fun at these people because I know they are scared because they think they are poz. My issue was if you are being told that you are not poz because you shared a toothbrush or because you fingered someone for 10 secs then why ask the same question over and over. To me, by doing this, you are wasting a moderator's time where they could be answering someone else's question. Another thing is when people say well I fingered her for 10 secs or I was in his ass for 4.5 secs, I mean really, as I have said in a previous post, when in the heat of the moment who is actually keeping track of time? I was not trying to be funny by saying this but was being quite serious.

When I logged on tonight, I had a message from Andy, which I guess was my slap on the hand. I responded to the message. Again, I was not trying to be funny. I was just simply stating my opinion. I was not trying to make light of anyone's situation but how is that fair to others when one person abuses the forum in such a way? I would like to hear others opinions on this or is this just me.  ???
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2006, 09:50:29 PM »
Sorry, I put this in the wrong spot...I meant for it to be in Off Topic, can someone move this. Sorry but I feel totally disgusted..... :'(
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2006, 09:54:59 PM »
~
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 02:23:50 PM by allopathicholistic »

Offline Ann

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2006, 07:38:03 AM »
Hi Queenie,

I've moved your thread to the OT section.

We do have a system in place to help people who repeatedly post over a no-risk event or a conclusive negative test result. I appreciate your concern, but I guess all I can say is that if you don't have the patience for the repeat questions that happen in that forum, maybe you shouldn't aggravate yourself by going in there. Stress isn't good for us!

Cheers,
Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2006, 11:18:13 AM »
I have to deal with people like that in the flesh at times. Trust me, patience is essential.

Then again, that's why I don't go to the Am I Infected forum. Andy or Ann or someone would probably have slapped more than my wrist if I did.

Hmmm, now that I think of it . . .   8)

HUGS,

Mark

Who is feeling the effects of the full moon.
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2006, 03:13:45 PM »
Mark,

I wouldn't slap your wrist, I'd put you over my knee. ;D

I've been howling at the moon myself...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2006, 04:29:01 PM »
Thanks Mark and Ann for your response, I will take your advice and just avoid those forums. I must admit patience has never been one of my strong suits. And I do have a pet peeve of having to repeat myself over and over. Hmmm, I guess that's why I will never moderate anything...... :D
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline MSPspud

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  • Joined Mar 2005 - Formerly UofMurbs
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2006, 05:18:09 PM »
Yeah, I don't have the patience for that part of the forum either.  I've tried a few answers and posts, but it never stuck.  I figure I give back to the community in other ways, so for those who provide endless hours to the WW's, my hat off to you!

Offline libvet

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2006, 05:23:35 PM »
I learned really really quick that for the most part, about 1% of the "worried well" are worth trying to help.

The rest......it's not worth even trying.   How do you help a person that has 18 negative HIV tests in a year and thinks they have HIV everytime they get a pimple?
 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2006, 05:35:31 PM »
And a very cute hat it is, Spud.

It DOES take patience to work in the AIM I INFECTED Forum regularly. And having said that, some great people have turned up there who are very genuinely looking for information and support.

Many who come there are really there for other problems but have for whatever their personal dynamics ended up focusing on HIV.  Those can be very problematic at times. Some sorting out is called for. We're able to help some of them too. And for those who are simply compulsive and obsessive we walk with them up to a point and then call it a day.

The thing is to always be respectful in one's responses. There are all sorts of ways you can do that from being dead seriousness and straight factually to sometimes using humor, (but NOT sarcasm), all of which can be useful.

If it becomes too much of a strain and you find yourself growing very impatient that's no reflection on your character. It's just a service that is not for you.

Cheers,   
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 05:39:00 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Cliff

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2006, 05:45:43 PM »
Q-A,

I rarely go over (maybe once every 3 or 4 months).  I'll answer one or two questions (tops) and then get bored and disappear for another few months.  You quickly get used to the way things work over there and realize that,as Andy mentioned, there are other issues (guilt) at play for some.  It actually used to be much worse over there (at least I think so).  Sometimes folks from our side would get into fights (probably an overstatement) with folks over there.  I think Ann and Andy have done a lot of cleaning house and have made things very professional in that forum.

Also, there's much more technical stuff going on over there (well probably not much more, but more technical stuff my brain isn't interested in holding onto)....like how many weeks till a test is conclusive and what are all the different types of tests, etc..  So I also avoid it, cause I'll probably just give out some bad advice....like telling someone an oral indeterminate test at 2 weeks is conclusive or something silly like that.   ;D

Have a good one,

Clif

Offline cph9680

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2006, 05:45:53 PM »
...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 08:23:20 PM by cph9680 »

Offline Rhino

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2006, 06:08:00 PM »
For some WW the repeat questions are really about them trying to deal with the guilt they feel from committing the act itself. It's as if they think they deserve to get HIV because they cheated on their mate or fingered prostitute or let another man give them a blowjob. So they actually keep looking for some way for them to be positive.

Others do it because these people truly are obsessive compulsive and need more help that this forum can provide. Some others I am convinced are just plain morons who come here to harass people.

What I find humorous is that the men that post this way are so pathetic with this behavior when compare to the women who will basically handle it with much more dignity.

I stopped posting because I am not as good with words as Ann or Andy so my point comes across really wrong sometimes which just makes these guys job even harder. So I leave that section to the experts.

Rhino

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2006, 01:36:18 AM »
For some WW the repeat questions are really about them trying to deal with the guilt they feel from committing the act itself. It's as if they think they deserve to get HIV because they cheated on their mate or fingered prostitute or let another man give them a blowjob. So they actually keep looking for some way for them to be positive.

Others do it because these people truly are obsessive compulsive and need more help that this forum can provide. Some others I am convinced are just plain morons who come here to harass people.

What I find humorous is that the men that post this way are so pathetic with this behavior when compare to the women who will basically handle it with much more dignity.

I stopped posting because I am not as good with words as Ann or Andy so my point comes across really wrong sometimes which just makes these guys job even harder. So I leave that section to the experts.

Rhino

Thank you for your response. You presented some things that I had never considered. I know, I'm not as eloquently versed as some on here either.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2006, 06:32:17 AM »
Queenie,

It might surprise you to learn that Matty the Damned has been a regular contributor to the Am I Infected? forum over his time here. And let me tell you, I understand your pain. It requires a great deal of effort.

I strongly encourage HIV poz members to participate in that forum, especially those who have a more "direct" style. There are times that love and hugz can only go so far. Some of those MoFo's need a good slap in the mouth. There is, in Matty's opinion, a little too much hand holding and general faffing about with some of them.

That said, it's important to understand how one should participate when dealing with Worried Wells.

1. Learn the AIDSMEDS HIV Prevention Message

For all my bitching about AIDSMEDS, this is the one thing they've gotten right. Well, ok, it's not the AIDSMEDS message as such, it's just common sense backed up by good science, but there are many supposedly "reputable" HIV sites on the net (why am I looking in the direction of thebody?) who get HIV transmission stuff wrong. Study the AIDSMEDS Lessons Section religiously. It's good stuff and provided you stay on message, you'll be ok.

2. There is a time for compassion

No, I''m not developing AIDS Dementia. Matty the Damned can be compassionate when he has to be. A lot of the whacked out perverts who come to this place drooling and freaking do so because they're ignorant. They need to reassured gently that a sniffing strippers underpants (or whatever dumbarsed weirdo thing they think they did) is not a risk for HIV. Herpes maybe, AIDS no. And let's face it, some of them are so irritating it's kinda of funny to think they might get the clap. ;)

<section 3. withdrawn>

4. Know when to take a break

Worried Wells are the least important people in this place. I mean, who cares if the poor little dear is terrified that hordes of Ninja Prostitute Drug Addict Terrorists are just waiting around the corner to infect him with AIDS via remote toothbrush? Walk away. There are plenty of other suckers willing to answer his questions. Some people just need that sort of validation.

MtD
(Who Honestly Truly Knows) :-*

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 07:02:42 AM by matty.the.damned »

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 06:43:55 AM »
I don't have the patience either.  I read the Am I forums, but just sit and roll my eyes heavenward.  God bless Ann, Andy and Rapid or their forebearance and perseverance.  And I agree 100%, most of it is guilt-ridden.  I want to tell some of these people never to touch another human being again -ever - for any reason, unless they're wearing a containment suit from a germ lab.  See?  I stay clear of posts there.

Offline Ann

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2006, 06:58:07 AM »
//snip//

3. There is a time to be a complete bastard

Some fucktards just can't take the hint, and the wise Am I Infected participant has to know when to call an OCD loser for what he is. I use "he" advisedly because they're almost always men. Take it from me doll, being overly nice for too long is counter productive. It will send you nuts and it just enables the bad behaviour of the unfortunate you're trying to help.

Sometimes you've just gotta tell 'em they're fuckwits.
//snip//

MtD
(Who Honestly Truly Knows) :-*


No, actually, there isn't a "time to be a complete bastard" in that forum. If it gets to the point where you want to be, please step away from that forum BEFORE posting.

Please also have a read of reply #3 in the Living With forum's Welcome Thread.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2006, 07:01:49 AM »
Matty the Damned withdraws that section of his post without reservation.

MtD

Offline Sae

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2006, 09:29:06 AM »
As a former WW (and I hope I'm not painted as one of the obsessive ones), I came to Aidsmeds for real and concrete advice on when to test and what my actual risk was.  I came here because most Doctors are not current or perhaps more accurately are held to political timelines that are unrealistic and archaic.  I came here because thebody is a debaucle.

I received compassion and tough love and technical advice. 

The issue of HIV fears and those that cross over into obsessive is, in my opinion, complex.  For some its guilt, for others its abuse and resultant low self esteem, and mostly its about the HIV stigma itself.  The stigma around HIV creates the perfect pathway for irrational fears based on punishment.  I think it often takes a few factors to create the magic potion of irrational HIV fear.  Perhaps a friend or family member with HIV, at least some sort of exposure to the STIGMA, not necessarily the virus itself and a personal mistake and fear of retribution. 

The rest can be summed up as misinformation and a lack of education and then suddenly there are the others that Matty mentioned in Point 3. 

Those ones...well, tricky.....and sometimes I must say I agree with Matty, they needed a good slap.  I know I was defended when attacked personally and I certainly appreciated it.  Those that make the same mistake and come back here 'with nimble fingers to confess their sins' because they are trolls.

I can imagine it isn't easy to witness such ridiculous irrationality at times....however, the more time I spend on this earth, the more time I realise the majority of people simply don't have a clue about HIV.  The perfect recipe for stigma.

Sae
(who hates the stigma)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 09:38:01 AM by Sae »
Meh.

Offline Ann

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2006, 10:12:46 AM »
Sue,

I have to disagree with you. "Slapping" anyone in the Am I forum would be the thin edge of the wedge. Where do you draw the line? Slapping just is not appropriate - it's not our job and besides, there is a VERY thin line between "tough love" and abuse. Telling someone they are a "fuckwit" is just abuse, plain and simple.

We give Time Outs in that forum for those who are clearly misusing the forum to their own detriment. The TOs we give in that forum exist to encourage them to get the face-to-face help they need that we cannot possibly provide. We only give TOs over there to people who are not in a legitimate window period. Those who are... well, we just do the best we can by them, without resorting to abusive comments.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2006, 10:27:04 AM »
Matty the Damned is no longer able to articulate point 3. It is forbidden. Nevertheless, fabulous clog dancing is not yet forbidden.

Matty the Damned dances fabulously with clogs. ;D

MtD
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 10:44:04 AM by matty.the.damned »

Offline Sae

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2006, 02:00:55 PM »
Ann,

Don't take offence to the term slapping.  I certainly didn't condone 'fuckwit', and the line between abuse and tough love is pretty obvious actually.  Slapping isn't name calling.  Slapping is a cold glass of water in the face that doesn't hurt, doesn't cause permanent damage, is TRUE and accurate, and a real dose of reality.  Its a wake up call.   I had one from Andy, I told him in person I appreciated it. I still do.  It was like a slap....he was right, he meant well and he said it.  Fuckwit is counterproductive, a true slap stings but doesn't leave a mark.

Perhaps slapping has meant 'Move On', or seek professional help, or in some cases its you are being ridiculous.  Slapping can mean:  look you cheated, you were a dog now move on too.  In other words:  slapping can be kind.  Slapping can be a TO.

The slapping I was referring to was a troll who came in insulted women in general, was rude and demeaning about prostitutes, then took exception to me (and my hair)....and well....he was 'slapped' with a mysogyny comment and told to confess his sins elsewhere.  He was called out....not called names.  Big difference.  He was, IMHO slapped.

You've clearly taken slapping wrong.  It means tough love and calling a spade a spade or a racist a racist.

Since I used to respond in that forum quite regularly...and I didn't slap...nor have I been reprimanded for being too harsh or name calling...that should be enough to convince you that I clearly don't slap nor condone it.

Aside from all of that,,,, I am pretty darn sure fuckwit wasn't a literal example anyway.

Sae.
Meh.

Offline clarke

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Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2006, 05:37:29 PM »
Well, as a "retired" Counter Strike admin, it was easy enuff to close/lock a thread when we had people repeatedly ask stuff that had been answered.  Most of the time they were referred to a previous post they could link to easily (as is with this Forum). 

No one likes to waste time on an asked/answered question, it just seems in this are of HIV/AIDS, some folks just do not get it, no matter who tells them what.  And one can be dang sure that those same people have asked the same question at their "local" HIV/AIDS help organization and have also looked elsewhere on the "net".  I mean, the "list" of how one can/cannot be infected is very easy to find in many places.

Some people are totally clueless in life, and will stay that way.  I mean, there are still knuckleheads who won't eat something they know was made by someone who has HIV/AIDS.

Oh, I know Counter Strike and HIV/AIDS are not even close, it's just that I truely hate seeing the moderators here having to wade through endless waves of knuckleheads that either can't or won't read, or are posting ridiculous questions just because they have nothing better to do (just like those out there who like to hack or write viruses.  They got nothing better to do with their lives, or time). 
 

Offline Queen Tokelove

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  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2006, 05:53:21 PM »
I appreciate the advice given on this issue. At first, I was going to walk away from that area and just say the hell with it. But Matty did make a good point, that sometimes it's not about always holding a person's hand. I, myself, have never been one to sugarcoat things but feel that my bluntness might just be able to help someone.

What I will do is pop in every so often instead of on a daily basis. I will take in consideration the things that have been told to me by Andy and Ann, the last thing I am trying to do is get banned or given a T. O. Even though I am not up on everything when it comes to the medical side of being HIV, I can offer some advice from an emotional point of view, hell we all can. Not everyone there tends to repeat questions over and over, I'll leave those ones to Ann and the rest of the moderators. But I will always be here to listen to those who need to vent or needs another's opinion on something. Because if it wasn't for this place I would still be an emotional wreck.

Thanks Again!
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
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The Royal Blog

Offline Sae

  • Member
  • Posts: 203
  • Joined June 2005
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2006, 06:26:47 PM »
Meh.

Offline Rhino

  • Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: Abuse or not to abuse?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2006, 09:29:05 PM »
Was it not for the tough but respectful, professional and genuinely caring replies I got from the folks over at “Am I infected” during my episode … well, I’m not sure I would still be here.

I don’t agree that worry wells are the least important people here. Some of us, few as we may be, turn into ex-worry wells that go back into the world armed with accurate, up to date information on this disease and educate our families and friends. This education is a weapon in the fight against HIV and the f-upped stigma that it carries and any person that spreads this education, I think, is very important.

Rhino
Who is very grateful …..

 


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