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Author Topic: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?  (Read 1337 times)

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Offline pr1990

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« on: June 07, 2014, 09:00:33 PM »
Hello,

I get positive in my last test on april 2014.  My CD4 at april was 317, and Viral Load was 1.1 million.  I get infected somewhere between October 2013 and January 2014 (because my last test in November 2013 came as negative...) so the doctor told me it was normal that I get that Viral Load so high, because I was on the first stage of infection.  I have to say that the infection come great to my body fat... it burned my fat greatly, and my body get really shredded (and I thought I was doing good at gym... ha...).  Later I learned from the clinic's nutritionist that it was because HIV was a hyper caloric infection that consumes a lot of energy from the body to defend itself from it, and the body takes that energy from your fat. (I have to admit I felt great about that, since at least not all was bad news, something about this virus was good enough to my gym goals, it was burning my fat for free without diets... and I finally was able to eat whatever I wanted and my body didn't gain fat from it, because it was used to fight the virus...)
So I started treatment 3 days ago (june 4th) with STRIBILD, the doctor sold me that pill as the latest ARV's that was so powerful and effective that he knew it was getting me undetectable in less than 6 months.  So far in this 3 days taking the medicine, I have not had headaches, nor nausea.  I have feel a little dizziness (very slight) that last few ours after I take the medicine at 4:30pm every day (my brother -that is doctor- told me that it was normal until my body get used to the medicine). Overall, I feel very hopeful about this pill, because everyone on the forums and patients in my clinic get indetectable results after few weeks on STRIBILD.   HOWEVER, I have been reading a lot about ARV's treatment side effects... and the one that bothers me more is lipodystrophy.  I consulted with my brother and the clinic's doctor, and both told me that the ARV's medicine type had to notify about this by law because the first medicines caused it, even if the newer medicines doesn't... he told me that Stribild didn't cause lipodystrophy, that the only one that he knew cause it commonly was Norvir.  BUT, I want that people that know the medicines side effects by fact (and not theory or labels like doctors) tell me really about it, specifically the people that has taken Stribild or the 4 medicines that compounds it and tell me if they presented lipodystrophy.
I have to admit I'm a very superficial with myself... I'm beautiful, and want to develop an even greater gym body, and I don't wanna waste it because of this meds... if I have to choose, I would prefer to live 10 years looking great, than 50 living with lipodystrophy and feeling bad about myself.  I have met lots of beautiful boys with great bodies that I have saw years later without a single drop of that beauty I saw on the past, and now I wonder if it was because of HIV meds, I don't want that same happen to me.  I wonder if the doctor and my brother isn't telling me that it's going to bury my current body and body goals in order for me to accept and take the medicine (beacause I was resisting taking the treatment because of the idea that it was going to make me look sick, or that my body fat was going to increase without the gym being able to do something about it... lipodystrophy as the side effects label says...)

In resume, my questions are: 
1.  HAS ANYONE USING STRIBILD (which is a combination of four other medicines) PRESENTED LIPODYSTROPHY?
2.  HAS ANYONE USING THE 4 MEDICINES THAT COMPOUNDS STRIBILD PRESENTED LIPODYSTROPHYA BECAUSE OF THEM?
3.  IF NOT LIPODYSTROPHY, WHICH DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECT HAVE YOU PRESENTED?
4.  DOES ANYONE KNOWS THE PROBABILITY THAT SOMEONE TAKING STRIBILD DEVELOPS LIPODISTROPHY?

Thanks for you replies regarding this matter, and sorry if I worried too much about esthetically issues about medicines instead health ones... but it's very important for me.

Offline absopozilutely

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • Love to chat/text/talk/encourage!
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2014, 12:02:06 AM »
Try not to worry about something that's out of your control. Ever had a headache? Taken aspirin or ibuprofen? Look up the side effects of that, you don't wait for those you wait for relief of the headache.
12/18 Infected
2/4 12:22pm tested POZ via ORAquick
2/19 WB Confirmation
2/4-2/19 VL 104,678 CD4 407
3/2 Genotype back, and Started Complera
4/2-CD4 688 38% and VL 1,600
5/1-CD4 592 42% and VL 336
5/22-CD4 732 31% and VL 109 :( STILL NOT UD!
5/31 Switched to Stribild :( I'll miss you Complera!
6/19 CD4 508 35% and VL UD!!!!! Crying at work like a baby.
9/19 CD4 799 46% VL UD yayyyy

Offline eric48

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,204
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2014, 06:10:00 AM »
In resume, my questions are: 
1.  HAS ANYONE USING STRIBILD (which is a combination of four other medicines) PRESENTED LIPODYSTROPHY?
2.  HAS ANYONE USING THE 4 MEDICINES THAT COMPOUNDS STRIBILD PRESENTED LIPODYSTROPHYA BECAUSE OF THEM?
3.  IF NOT LIPODYSTROPHY, WHICH DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECT HAVE YOU PRESENTED?
4.  DOES ANYONE KNOWS THE PROBABILITY THAT SOMEONE TAKING STRIBILD DEVELOPS LIPODISTROPHY?

All medicine that is an Inhibitor (not only HIV-aimed inhibitors) have some level of side effects

There are no known exception

Inhibitors that are used chronically (long time or all life) include HIV meds, antidepressants, statins, etc.

Some side effect are non noticeable or non existent in many patients

Some side effects are exposure dependant. When the drug is stopped the side effect may disappear (some not)
Most side effects are dosage dependant. For chronically used drugs, some side effects are cumulative-dosage dependant.

Some side effects are identified only after many years, some times many many years (see: newly identified role of statins on diabetes)

Once you get that, you get the broad picture

Stribild is Truvada (a 2 molecule combos used for many years: TDF +FTC) + all new Cobi (thus far, used only in Strb.) and all new Elvitegravir (Strib. only)

Elvitegravir is low dosed due to efficient binding properties
Cobi is low dosed. It is a booster that jams liver metabolism
Truvada has higher dose of TDF than it was in some Viread (TDF only) versions (300 mg vs 245 mg)(google for viread 245)

Elvitegravir:
Short term effects of Elvitegravir, such as rash, do exist but incidence seems very low
Long term (Exposure/cumulative dose dependant) are obviously an unknown

Cobicistat:

Cobi impairs or boots metabolism of other medicines (possibly including supplements that gym goers like)
As long as you do not take any affected molecules you are safe
affected molecules are obviously among those metabolised in the liver. Non liver metabolized molecules are not affected
Long term (Exposure/cumulative dose dependant) are obviously an unknown

Truvada:


To learn more on known long term side effects of Stribild, it suffice to look for known long term side effects of Truvada

Lipodistrophy:
While Lipodistrophy is an identified side effect with Truvada also, TDF seem to be a less offensive. Many will have none or if any may appear later, later in life

Management and avoidance of short term side effects is well known and with strb. can be expected to be very rare

You will not find anyone being long enough on Strib. to be able to comment on the specific long term SE

You will find many with experience of long term SE of Truvada: this is the only cumulative, community based experience that you can learn from, at this time

Avoidance of long term side effects include:
- Avoiding the offensive drug (TDF or ABC, for example)
- Reducing the cumulative dose

Avoiding TDF includes non standard once daily regimen such as Prezista/norvir + 3TC , Prezista/norvir + RAL , Viramune + RAL (and possibly others). These are considered virologically safe eventhough the data is not abundant

Reducing Cumulative dose: FOTO is proven safe and efficient (in small studies) but Strib. is not eligible for FOTO, at this time.

When to consider switching out of Stribild ?
not before you are UD + a second UD reading (typically 6 month + 6 months)

Body changes are not that common anylonger but remain a main cause for non-adherence. Since long term virologic suppression is desired, management is a critical aspect (albeit often neglected) of long term clinical management.
Long term Clinical management is not always the primary concern of specialist doctors (many hardly know their patients).

A physician who is receptive to your concerns is key to your question

In Summary
1. Stribild is to new for that... Look for Truvada
2. Look for TDF, probably the most offensive of the 4 (TDF is, by far, not very offensive compared to historically drugs)
3. Short term : rash (very rare) long term : renal impairment, bone density decrease (something that, ironically, might concern younger patients more than older patient, as a younger patient needs bones for the next 50 y., and older patient, only 20-30)
4. As of today, same as Truvada

Time to read : 5 min.
Time to write 2h.
Cost to you : 0

Eric

modified to add: aspirin is not a good analogy as most people take is on occasion. But, here also , people who are required to take aspirin daily , after a stroke/CVD for example are on reduced dosage. In that respect a good analogy
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 06:34:39 AM by eric48 »
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline absopozilutely

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • Love to chat/text/talk/encourage!
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 03:10:52 AM »
All medicine that is an Inhibitor (not only HIV-aimed inhibitors) have some level of side effects

There are no known exception

Inhibitors that are used chronically (long time or all life) include HIV meds, antidepressants, statins, etc.

Some side effect are non noticeable or non existent in many patients

Some side effects are exposure dependant. When the drug is stopped the side effect may disappear (some not)
Most side effects are dosage dependant. For chronically used drugs, some side effects are cumulative-dosage dependant.

Some side effects are identified only after many years, some times many many years (see: newly identified role of statins on diabetes)

Once you get that, you get the broad picture

Stribild is Truvada (a 2 molecule combos used for many years: TDF +FTC) + all new Cobi (thus far, used only in Strb.) and all new Elvitegravir (Strib. only)

Elvitegravir is low dosed due to efficient binding properties
Cobi is low dosed. It is a booster that jams liver metabolism
Truvada has higher dose of TDF than it was in some Viread (TDF only) versions (300 mg vs 245 mg)(google for viread 245)

Elvitegravir:
Short term effects of Elvitegravir, such as rash, do exist but incidence seems very low
Long term (Exposure/cumulative dose dependant) are obviously an unknown

Cobicistat:

Cobi impairs or boots metabolism of other medicines (possibly including supplements that gym goers like)
As long as you do not take any affected molecules you are safe
affected molecules are obviously among those metabolised in the liver. Non liver metabolized molecules are not affected
Long term (Exposure/cumulative dose dependant) are obviously an unknown

Truvada:


To learn more on known long term side effects of Stribild, it suffice to look for known long term side effects of Truvada

Lipodistrophy:
While Lipodistrophy is an identified side effect with Truvada also, TDF seem to be a less offensive. Many will have none or if any may appear later, later in life

Management and avoidance of short term side effects is well known and with strb. can be expected to be very rare

You will not find anyone being long enough on Strib. to be able to comment on the specific long term SE

You will find many with experience of long term SE of Truvada: this is the only cumulative, community based experience that you can learn from, at this time

Avoidance of long term side effects include:
- Avoiding the offensive drug (TDF or ABC, for example)
- Reducing the cumulative dose

Avoiding TDF includes non standard once daily regimen such as Prezista/norvir + 3TC , Prezista/norvir + RAL , Viramune + RAL (and possibly others). These are considered virologically safe eventhough the data is not abundant

Reducing Cumulative dose: FOTO is proven safe and efficient (in small studies) but Strib. is not eligible for FOTO, at this time.

When to consider switching out of Stribild ?
not before you are UD + a second UD reading (typically 6 month + 6 months)

Body changes are not that common anylonger but remain a main cause for non-adherence. Since long term virologic suppression is desired, management is a critical aspect (albeit often neglected) of long term clinical management.
Long term Clinical management is not always the primary concern of specialist doctors (many hardly know their patients).

A physician who is receptive to your concerns is key to your question

In Summary
1. Stribild is to new for that... Look for Truvada
2. Look for TDF, probably the most offensive of the 4 (TDF is, by far, not very offensive compared to historically drugs)
3. Short term : rash (very rare) long term : renal impairment, bone density decrease (something that, ironically, might concern younger patients more than older patient, as a younger patient needs bones for the next 50 y., and older patient, only 20-30)
4. As of today, same as Truvada

Time to read : 5 min.
Time to write 2h.
Cost to you : 0

Eric

modified to add: aspirin is not a good analogy as most people take is on occasion. But, here also , people who are required to take aspirin daily , after a stroke/CVD for example are on reduced dosage. In that respect a good analogy

Eric, lets not overwhelm the posters, we dont want to scare them. To sum it up, ALL medications have side effects, as i've said before, Ever had a headache? What do you take Ibuprofen? Aspirin? Do you wait around for the side effects (Look them up) of those to happen? No. You wait for relief of the headache, same concept here, wait for relief of the Viral Load.

:)

Thanks!

Abso!
12/18 Infected
2/4 12:22pm tested POZ via ORAquick
2/19 WB Confirmation
2/4-2/19 VL 104,678 CD4 407
3/2 Genotype back, and Started Complera
4/2-CD4 688 38% and VL 1,600
5/1-CD4 592 42% and VL 336
5/22-CD4 732 31% and VL 109 :( STILL NOT UD!
5/31 Switched to Stribild :( I'll miss you Complera!
6/19 CD4 508 35% and VL UD!!!!! Crying at work like a baby.
9/19 CD4 799 46% VL UD yayyyy

Offline la-hir

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2014, 05:41:05 AM »
Eric - hhaahahha  ;D ::) :P ;D looooooooloool hahaha you are more advanced then Wikipedia lol bless! Anyway - thank you for this post. Today was my day 14 with Stribild- lots of people complaining about gas ... Oj  :-[ up to yesterday I didn't know what they talking about. We celebrate last night anniversary with my husband and I have an "accident" in bathroom - it was awful! And he was like - hey babes what's going on in your body??? So embarrassing...I never smell that in my life. So far Stribild letting me know, that is working in my body with  - this embarrassing smell and by dry mouth in the night and metallic taste in my mouth in the morning.... Other then that - I am not feel anything else. I will ask about something in my pharmacy for the dry mouth because is very unpleasant feeling and not good for sex. Ok - hope you'll be ok pr1990- I still think Tivicay or Stribild are best choices at this time. I hope next year I'll be able switch to Tivicay. :) by that time- my goal is get undetectable! You should aim for the same :) x good luck! X & lots of love! L.

Offline pr1990

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2014, 10:57:12 AM »
I liked Eric's response... I cannot take ibuprofen analogy since I take that once every two or four months, one pill will not likely make you all that side effects.  HOWEVER Stribild is going to be taken every day for the rest of your life, and its bigger in size than Advil or Panadol... so side effects will develop with more probabilities than ibuprofen, maybe not now, but in the future because of a long daily use of it  :-/  just like a pizza... eat one today and another in two or three months as ibuprofen and its ok... eat one every day and your body is going fat and you will not notice the little changes in your body shape until you are already fat.  :'(

Offline absopozilutely

  • Member
  • Posts: 391
  • Love to chat/text/talk/encourage!
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2014, 11:23:26 AM »
Ok fine, here's another analogy: look up the side effects of ingesting chlorine, now take a sip of your tap water, take a shower and lather up in the water, a bath, the pool. Alllllll are chlorinated, yet people drink water until they die.
12/18 Infected
2/4 12:22pm tested POZ via ORAquick
2/19 WB Confirmation
2/4-2/19 VL 104,678 CD4 407
3/2 Genotype back, and Started Complera
4/2-CD4 688 38% and VL 1,600
5/1-CD4 592 42% and VL 336
5/22-CD4 732 31% and VL 109 :( STILL NOT UD!
5/31 Switched to Stribild :( I'll miss you Complera!
6/19 CD4 508 35% and VL UD!!!!! Crying at work like a baby.
9/19 CD4 799 46% VL UD yayyyy

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,244
  • Ninja Please
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2014, 11:37:49 AM »
Ok fine, here's another analogy: look up the side effects of ingesting chlorine, now take a sip of your tap water, take a shower and lather up in the water, a bath, the pool. Alllllll are chlorinated, yet people drink water until they die.

Heh. False equivalence.

I see what you did there.

MtD

Offline eric48

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,204
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Recently Diagnosed and Treated: STRIBILD Side Effects?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 01:23:07 PM »
I liked Eric's response...

You are most welcome... I spent my Sunday morning on it... And I think this is well spent time

Just right now I appreciate the quoted words

Thanks a lot Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

 


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