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Author Topic: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.  (Read 894 times)

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Offline randym431

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This comes up all the time.
Just an FYI.
From sis:

http://www.rense.com/general68/gayex.htm
I found this interesting article. And we r supposed to trust our gov. Yeah right!

Offline mecch

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 05:59:31 AM »
If you believe she might buy into such conspiracy theories, it might be kind to talk it through with her.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 06:08:25 AM »
If you believe she might buy into such conspiracy theories, it might be kind to talk it through with her.

Or show her how to make her own tin-foil hat. ;)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online zach

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 06:17:40 AM »
please say this is a joke, so we can share the chuckle... otherwise, jeez man, scorn and ridicule is all i got

« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 06:44:05 AM by zach »
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline YellowFever

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 07:21:45 AM »
Well the article doesn't dispute the source of HIV, i.e. from chimpanzees. Just how it got to humans. In my mind, the theory that the epidemic was caused by "vaccine made from chimps blood was injected to thousands of homosexuals in a government sponsored clinical trial" is abit more complicated than "dude fucked a chimp"...So by Occam's razor...
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)
08/2014 CD4 580(?%)

Offline mecch

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 07:54:23 AM »
I don't understand your response, here, in this thread.
Conspiracy theories are often very complex. Occam's razor should NOT be applied to such garbage but if it were to be applied it would be another way to show that conspiracy theories are bullshit.
We are wondering if you believe a little bit, this one.... 
Asking because this particular conspiracy theory has tenaciously continued for a few decades and does a lot of damage.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline YellowFever

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2014, 09:03:30 AM »
There's nothing to 'believe' here. Neither orthodoxy nor this article are suggesting a different source of the virus, i.e. the Chimps. Just the method patient zero caught the virus. It could have been a botched government programme, a thryst with a chimp or an IDU fooling around with a syringe at a zoo. To quote Hillary Clinton "What difference, at this point, does it make?"
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)
08/2014 CD4 580(?%)

Offline Theyer

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2014, 09:07:23 AM »
Oh God not this bullshit again , thank the Gods for that beanie thing Zach posted at least I have never seen that before . Well I have ,  just not in that format.

Thinking about it the last "new" thing I came across that excited me with its newness, its possibilities , was the 3D printer.
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline mecch

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2014, 10:57:05 AM »
There's nothing to 'believe' here. Neither orthodoxy nor this article are suggesting a different source of the virus, i.e. the Chimps. Just the method patient zero caught the virus. It could have been a botched government programme, a thryst with a chimp or an IDU fooling around with a syringe at a zoo. To quote Hillary Clinton "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

Uh, BULLSHIT.  Sorry, but did you read the article you posted?  It is specifically arguing for a number of diseases having been spread on purpose, by humans including scientists and governments.

If you believe this, cop to it.  If you see it for the garbage it is, say so. 

It makes a HUGE difference to me, should to you, and to the world, if there are people who believe that diseases are propagated on purpose, secretly, through vaccinations...   Bull. shit.  Bullshit.

It is especially important because of historical events such as Tuskeegee.

You are taking this lightly but it should not be.  IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE and is important, today.  To call bullshit, bullshit.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online zach

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2014, 11:35:49 AM »
uncle sam shot me up with anthrax. we got a 1/2 day off just to lay around, whole series over the course of a couple weeks

thats a true story  ::)

but a gentle application of occam's razor will slice this up a million times. hiv was not engineered or spread by any government. THAT is the simplest explanation

please
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline mecch

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2014, 12:51:02 PM »
I want to say, I don't want to be rude or mean to you Yellowfever.  Its the article that is bullshit.

What i mean to say - what it DOES matter, is that there were (or still are) different populations that can believe this sort of thing.  Louis Farrakhan did a lot of damage with a theory that AIDS was invented by an evil white scientist to annihilate blacks. 

Gays could well believe that a government run by haters might pull a Tuskeegee on us.

People struggling to pay for treatment could well imagine that so called Big Pharma has a cure and won't ever tell anyone so they can keep making big profits.

Etc etc etc.

So it matters to say, no, that is not true.

And its important if people believe a little bit of this, that they discuss it so I don't want to shut anyone down if they do want to discuss it.


« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 12:56:18 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline YellowFever

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 04:47:32 PM »
What is important is that the mechanism by which HIV is transmitted and the effect it has on our immune cells is not disputed. Claiming that government injected gay volunteers with HIV-infected vaccine is not quite the same as 'HIV does not cause AIDS'. Both are incredible claims (the latter would be what one would call bullshit) but the former does not change the prognosis. Of course, if people concluded that, since the government injected this virus to gays, unprotected sex is not a route of transmission for HIV, then yes, such claims would be dangerous (which the article itself doesn't claim, but in a few sentences, it did implied that)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 05:02:28 PM by YellowFever »
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)
08/2014 CD4 580(?%)

Offline YellowFever

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2014, 04:59:08 PM »
As for the claim itself, if the Chinese government caused the infection of up to 30,000 people with HIV-tainted blood in Henan, there is no reason something analogous couldn't happen elsewhere. Whether deliberate, or accidental. Again let me stress, this DOESN'T change our understanding of the virus itself, i.e how it is spread or how it is controlled. What the article (I think) is claiming is how HIV was once spread. To deduce the virology of HIV from the epidemiology of HIV would be a flawed analysis.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 05:09:41 PM by YellowFever »
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)
08/2014 CD4 580(?%)

Offline mecch

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2014, 05:10:35 PM »
You have a reading comprehension problem.  Or, you are being disingenuous, and I suspect its that.

The article you posted is ENTIRELY ABOUT human agents targeting gays on purpose.  It is only incidentally about the animal origins of HIV and only incidentally mentions theories of the transfer between species.  The article is summarised, as such:

The connection between the hepatitis experiments and the AIDS epidemic was quickly dismissed by government authorities two decades ago. However, it is clear from a review of the scientific literature that the "gay plague" began immediately after the government experiments; and the experiments permanently damaged the health of the gay community, and led to continuing spread of HIV into the "general population."
 
Are we to believe that all this is merely a coincidence -and that AIDS in America resulted simply from two viruses jumping species in the African jungle? Or is the origin of HIV and AIDS -and the KS virus- related to secret medical research and covert human testing, as suggested here.


You are pulling a "bait and switch", trying to change the subject.

I shan't post here again, because you don't debate fairly.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 05:27:09 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline YellowFever

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2014, 05:53:59 PM »
Ok sure. I'll just write what I think.... I don't think it is off topic to talk about the implications of this article's claims without actually challenging the veracity of it. My point is that it is not a big issue if someone thinks the origin of HIV is due to some covert human testing. If you think it is a big issue, then I think you need a bigger font. Lol.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 06:16:14 PM by YellowFever »
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)
08/2014 CD4 580(?%)

Online zach

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2014, 05:56:07 PM »
man honestly i think this is the sort of thing we should run from screaming in fear. these is no healthy debate in this type of thing. this fosters and spreads the fear and misunderstanding they use against us. this is bad for us

gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline bocker3

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2014, 10:16:33 PM »
My point is that it is not a big issue if someone thinks the origin of HIV is due to some covert human testing. If you think it is a big issue, then I think you need a bigger font. Lol.

Actually -- spreading falsehoods is indeed a big deal, because people grab hold of it and twist it to their own ends.  Think President Obama is a Muslim -- if that were true, is it a big deal -- no.  If some people only "thought" this true, probably not a big deal either --  However it is not true and folks have used it to their own political ends.  The truth always matters - especially today where putting it on the internet makes things true in so many people's minds, regardless of the absurdity of it.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Ann

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Re: My sister emailed this to me. I think the HBO movie inspired her.
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2014, 02:50:33 AM »
I don't see any point in continuing this discussion about a crack-pot conspiracy theory.

I'm locking it so it sinks into oblivion where it belongs.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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