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Author Topic: Saddam sentenced to hang  (Read 4644 times)

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Offline Teresa

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Saddam sentenced to hang
« on: November 05, 2006, 10:15:46 AM »
BAGHDAD, Iraq -        Saddam Hussein was convicted and sentenced Sunday to hang for crimes against humanity in the 1982 killings of 148 people in a single Shiite town, as the ousted leader, trembling and defiant, shouted "God is great!!
 
Saddam and his seven co-defendants were on trial for a wave of revenge killings carried out in the city of Dujail following a 1982 assassination attempt on the former dictator. Al-Maliki's Islamic Dawa party, then an underground opposition, has claimed responsibility for organizing the attempt on Saddam's life.

The death sentences automatically go to a nine-judge appeals panel, which has unlimited time to review the case. If the verdicts and sentences are upheld, the executions must be carried out within 30 days.

Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2006, 10:27:45 AM »
He was created by America, just like Castro. So are we going to invade China next? Where was the outrage or even the news on the innocent Tibetan nun shot by the Chinese soldier 2 weeks ago? Or the fact China is selling the organs of it's citizens to the West.

Much of the kaos if not all in the world is due to arms sale. America is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. This  is big money, which is why France , China, and Russia are also in it.

Bush the first enticed the Kurds to rebel against him, then walked away from the carnage. So I guess both Bush's  should also be held for war crimes.
 It is also interesting that he got death, which America , the only Western country has, also proving that his crime was not what he done to his people but bucking America!
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2006, 10:31:35 AM »


   To bad he won't get to tell Allah he is great himself
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2006, 10:42:47 AM »
Right on, Johnny!  France and England are also responsible...

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2006, 10:53:01 AM »
Gee is my socialism showing?  ::) So much for pax americanus or what ever is latin for America !
Btw has anyone heard anything from Andorra- they are way to quiet, I think something evil is happening there let's invade!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 10:58:37 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Val

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  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2006, 11:14:16 AM »
 ::) :o ::) :o
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Cliff

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 11:17:32 AM »
Putting aside the war.  Saddam is an ass.  A murdering ass.  A torture-loving ass.  He too will get a Good Riddance from me when his execution date arrives.  Too many Iraqis (particularly the Kurds) have lost their lives because of this homicidal maniac.  They deserve justice.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 11:56:55 AM »
Ditto Cliff, and may his body be dragged through the streets of Iraq.

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 11:57:17 AM »
And what about onus on the Americans who rallied the Kurds to rise up. What I find interesting on the American perspective is that the American revolution was organic, though we must admit if France didn't go broke helping those Americans we would be flying  a red, white and blue of different stripes-too bad those republicans renaming french fries didn't know that.
Can -should we try those who over threw Chile's first democratic election? Or those who armed the right wing killing machines in Central America, or just keep naming airports after them?

Anyway I think we need to liberate the gay Andorrans who named their country in homage to Agnes Moorhead's character on "Bewitched" and now is paying the price by having a news blockade on them!
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2006, 12:01:57 PM »
And way too many Iraqis have paid a dear price for the illegal and irresponsible war The Bush Administration --- with the very little help of the British --- is still waving in their homeland!

Val
___
___
P.S. One question that the Bush Administration  will make sure will never get an answer is:  ""How many innocent civilians did the Americans kill?"   I betcha without a doubt that  the number is already far superior than Saddam's wars altogether  before the illegal invasion of the Iraqi homeland.
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2006, 12:07:58 PM »
Quote
P.S. One question that the Bush Administration  will make sure will never get an answer is:  ""How many innocent civilians did the Americans kill?"   I betcha without a doubt that  the number is already far superior than Saddam's wars altogether  before the illegal invasion of the Iraqi homeland.

Not even a 20th of what the Iraq's and Insurgents have killed.

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2006, 12:25:25 PM »
Which begs the question who is arming the insurgents? It is no coincidence that the Saudi's are the center for Wahabism, and Bush ( and the oil companies) is/ are  their (Saudi's) biggest supporter. Back in the 80's Newsweek wrote a few articles on how this branch of Islam is being spread with the aid of money from the oil companies of Saudi Arabia to Pakistan, along with Reagan helping to organize the Taliban.
To make it more complex the Saudi princes are all going broke with their lavish lifestyles so by having this kaos gives them a better hand in profits.
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2006, 12:34:02 PM »
Insurgent = rebellious; in revolt: Insurgent troops. A rebel soldier!

Now, the whole European Continent and much of the world  considers the illegal war on Iraq just what it is: Illegal! It is also a tyrannical war based basically in lies!Throughtout human history people have always rebelled against what they consider truthfully to be illogical, illegal, inhumane, disgraceful, unlawful, illegitimate, défendu, verboten!

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2006, 12:46:34 PM »
I wonder if he will hang, or will he die of old age in jail as our condemned do.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2006, 12:47:14 PM »
Val,

I get what you're saying.  But, that doesn't change history.  This war and the politics of it, doesn't make Saddam's attrocities go away.  It doesn't and shouldn't cover up the cold-blooded murders he committed while in power.  It doesn't excuse his actions.  In any event, (and this is a serious question), what makes a war illegal?  

In terms of US troops killing more innocent Iraqis than Saddam, I find that hard to believe.  Saddam is responsible for the deaths of:

At least 1 million during the Iran-Iraq war
Tens of thousands of Kurds, who he gassed
Thousands of Kuwaities during his invasion and occupation
Thousands of Iraqis in attempts to stifle political competition and challenges to his power
Not sure of how many Israelis were killed when he launched Scud missile attacks on that country

Not to mention the thousands of rapes that he blessed (many by his own family members...one of his sons, the one that was almost assassinated, was especially known for his brutal rapes on women).

Whether or not the coalition should have invaded Iraq is up for debate, but not the fact that Saddam is a man who has committed crimes against humanity.  Crimes that I believe should be recognized (and not ignored because of hatred for the war).  Crimes that I believe shouldn't go unpunished.

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2006, 12:51:47 PM »
Talking about leaders- does anyone else think Hamid Karzai is a gay republican?
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Cliff

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  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2006, 12:55:06 PM »
Talking about leaders- does anyone else think Hamid Karzai is a gay republican?
Him and Donald are gonna go public with their love affair soon!


Offline RapidRod

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2006, 12:59:00 PM »
I know a lot of Drag Queens (OK, female impersonators) that aren't gay. Some should be, but they aren't.  :D

Offline alisenjafi

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  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2006, 12:59:06 PM »
The problem with Cliff's argument is that as of 2000, how many countries in Africa  had the same despots doing the same things. Again here in NYC we had a rally to free Tibet, yet you know  America ain't going to fight China.  And that's only when addressing the new reason, once the wmd's argument became a farce.
Let's face it it was oil and the oil baron's are making money they never thought they get and people are dying for it.
What makes a war legal? When your backers give you a cut?
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Val

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  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2006, 01:00:45 PM »
Cliff,
Of course, I do understand what you're saying about Saddam and never, ever have I stated the contrary on one hand! On the other hand, the statistics of the injured and killed in wars are something open to debate and I do agree with you on that. Nevertheless, it is one thing to compare the war between Iran and Iraq; and a complete different story the war The US has unlawfully declared against Iraq.
Now, what makes a war illegal?  Well, if it was up to me ;) they'd be all illegal and forever so! However, since we don't live in a dream world there are such things as The United Nations and many other organizations that can hopefully regulate them.  Take a look at the article below!

http://www.layman.org/layman/news/2004-general-assembly/assembly-declares-iraq-war.htm

Val
___
___
P.S. I could send you several articles proving the illegality of this war.  What for?  It is just not worth, I guess. :-*
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline Val

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  • Praxitèles -- Satyre au repos
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2006, 01:03:42 PM »
Now, guys I do like the way the Afghans dress!  So cute! ;)

Val
___
___
P.S. Any drag queens among us?  Johnny, perhaps? :-* ;D
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2006, 01:21:25 PM »
www.layman.org., I'm not impressed by a Presbyterian online website, nor would I be impressed with any other church's website that tries to interfer with government. That's why we have the seperation of Church and State.

Offline alisenjafi

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  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2006, 02:03:27 PM »
www.layman.org., I'm not impressed by a Presbyterian online website, nor would I be impressed with any other church's website that tries to interfer with government. That's why we have the separation of Church and State.
Unlike you and me most of America seems not to believe in that:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37944-2003Jun26?language=printer
I think the underlying message is even the church that this pres. is part of finds his actions a little off kilter. Btw maybe this is why the Islamic world keeps thinking the Crusaders are at it again.
As for me being a drag queen, no way it's all man there baby!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 02:11:41 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline libvet

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2006, 03:04:42 PM »
I think we can all pretty much agree that Saddam was a bad guy.

The places where we start to disagree are bit more important these days.

For example:

Why was it our job to take him out? 

Did Saddam really pose a viable threat to the US national security?

Why didn't the republicans care about the Iraqis during the 80's when the vast majority of Saddam's atrocities took place?

Why did the Reagan/Bush White House kill the prevention of genocide act that would have stopped US sales of military and dual use equipment to Hussein's government, place other sanctions on him, publically condemn him and give humanitarian aid to the Kurds?

What kind of compassion is it when one only become "outraged" over an atrocity a decade and a half after we knew about it?

Is Saddam's well-deserved demise going to end the sectarian violence in Iraq?

Is Saddam's demise going to stop our troops from dying?

Is Saddam's death going to stop Halliburton and KBR and a host of other war profiteers from continuing to be parasites on our national budget?

And was getting Saddam really a bargain at the cost of tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of innocent civilians, 2831 US soldier's lives, a trillion dollars of US tax payer dollars, the embarrassment that is the Abu Ghraib scandal, and a new Iran friendly Islamic Republic that is currently tearing itself apart in a civil war (whether we want to call it that or not)?

I'm glad to see Saddam brought to justice, but the price of doing so was too damned high and I don't care who faults me for saying so.

In literary circles the death of Saddam is known as a 'pyrrhic victory", so you'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to be particularly giddy over it knowing the true cost of doing so.

Michael

Offline Cliff

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2006, 03:26:44 PM »
I'll take a stab at it!!!   ;D  ;D

Why was it our job to take him out? 

Is it ever?

Did Saddam really pose a viable threat to the US national security?

Apparently not.  But hindsight is 20/20.

Why didn't the republicans care about the Iraqis during the 80's when the vast majority of Saddam's atrocities took place?

Don't know.  But I don't think they really care about them now.  And neither do the Democrats.  Actually you're probably hard-pressed to find anyone who truly cares about it.

Why did the Reagan/Bush White House kill the prevention of genocide act that would have stopped US sales of military and dual use equipment to Hussein's government, place other sanctions on him, publically condemn him and give humanitarian aid to the Kurds?

[skip- cause don't know anything about that act, nor the politics behind it.]

What kind of compassion is it when one only become "outraged" over an atrocity a decade and a half after we knew about it?

Well, in truth I don't think the President or the Administration ever claimed to be outraged over the atrocities.  I think they claimed that he possessed WMDs and was willing to use it on other nations and possibly against the US.  And that he sponsored terrorism.

Is Saddam's well-deserved demise going to end the sectarian violence in Iraq?

Probably not.

Is Saddam's demise going to stop our troops from dying?

Unlikely.

Is Saddam's death going to stop Halliburton and KBR and a host of other war profiteers from continuing to be parasites on our national budget?

Wash your mouth with soap.  You are taking about a Houston-based corporation.  Profits are good.  They create jobs.  Do you want Houstonians out on the street?  Well do you?  BTW- Halliburton and KBR are the same thing.  KBR is a division of the Halliburton Corporation.

And was getting Saddam really a bargain at the cost of tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of innocent civilians, 2831 US soldier's lives, a trillion dollars of US tax payer dollars, the embarrassment that is the Abu Ghraib scandal, and a new Iran friendly Islamic Republic that is currently tearing itself apart in a civil war (whether we want to call it that or not)?

Have you seen Saddam's palaces?  The man was never a cheap trick.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 03:31:22 PM by Cliff »

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2006, 03:44:18 PM »
Rod,
Johnny was right!  I did send the Layman article on purpose to Cliff.  Isn't Bush a protestant?  Aren't the protestants the ones  effectively in power in the US today? What is this crap that you're giving me about the separation of Church and State? Not in that ..."great land of yours, honey!" It may be written in the American Constitution, but I doubt it is applied nowadays!
Look at the pitiful state of so many minorities in the US --- gays included. Can you tell me what kind of rights ( if any)  a gay couple has  in the USA today? Who do you think is behind all this with the Republicans? The protestants!
Effective dissociation between Church and State do exist in several countries, and not only can one experience it in these countries;  but  one can also take advantage of the liberty and equitable privileges it extends to its citizens. I will not cite France as an example even though I could, but look at just two European countries and sense the mammoth gap between them and the US  concerning gay rights:  a) Spain   b) Belgium
And if you really wanna learn more about minority rights in general, take a look at the situation in The Netherlands and England!  
In most of the countries cited above, gay couples enjoy almost (if not all) the same privileges that a heterosexual couple  benefits from!  But I digress.
So, the effectual steps for the US to take regarding the separation of Church and State is far from being evident for me! I may be wrong, though.

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline libvet

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2006, 03:59:33 PM »
Apparently not.  But hindsight is 20/20.

Now see, this is a place we will have to part ways.  I think it was pretty obvious that Saddam wasn't really a viable threat to the US.   When the UN inspectors were in Iraq and reporting to the UN they had access to EVERYWHERE they wanted to go and they were coming up empty handed, our Secretary of State is plagiarizing a 1991 students report and showing us "drawings of mass destruction" to make his case to the UN, when the inspectors were calling the intelligence we provided to them "garbage after garbage after garbage", and I am watching inspectors bulldoze missiles with the consent of the Iraqi government because they could fly about 5 miles further at the most without a payload than they were designed to do, and the US confiscates all the information provided by the Iraqi government and redacts 99 percent of it before giving it to the UN, and the country has been under sanctions with nary a peep from the Iraqi government and certainly nothing that would indicate some looming threat.....

....I think it was pretty clear our reasons for going into Iraq had NOTHING whatsoever to do with any threat to the US posed by Hussein's government.


Don't know.  But I don't think they really care about them now.  And neither do the Democrats.  Actually you're probably hard-pressed to find anyone who truly cares about it.

And that sort of underscores the point.  When it became obnoxiously evident to even those who weren't paying attention that the whole WMD thing was a scare tactic perpetrated by our government, suddenly the refrain was "Oh, we could barely sleep at night knowing the how awful life must be for the poor, oppressed people living under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein".

Now, I don't pretend to know the inner workings of the mind of EVERY right-winger, but I travel in those circles enough to know that the plight of brown people of the Muslim faith suffering rates somewhere between belly-button lint and hangnail on the scale of importance to them.  And to be totally honest, I found their "convenient" compassion for the Iraqi people to be hollow and offensive, especially when watching them vacillate between "NUKE 'EM ALL!!!" and "We love them so much!" every three minutes.


Wash your mouth with soap.  You are taking about a Houston-based corporation.  Profits are good.


I recognize that you are being facetious with that, but there was a time in our country not too long ago where we considered war-profiteering to be treasonous to the American people.  Nowour country seems to embrace these modern day carpetbaggers and that strikes me as vile. 

I am a veteran and I love my country, but on February 15, 2003, I marched against my country's drumbeat to war.   I knew it was a bad move then and I knew my efforts were futile because this administration would have invaded if Jesus Christ himself came down from heaven and declared Iraq had no WMD.   At work, when we unleashed "shock and awe" in Baghdad, I ended up leaving my cubicle and weeping in the bathroom over it because I felt so strongly that it was a bad choice for our country.

Even so, I hoped and prayed that something good might come from this and that it would not turn out exactly the way it has and exactly as I knew it would.  Now we have a conflict that has lasted longer than our involvement in WW2 and the situation continues to spiral out of control.

I only hope our pride and arrogance doesn't require another memorial with 58000 names on it before we face the cold reality that we made a huge mistake.

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2006, 04:27:43 PM »
It seems everyone conveniently overlooked my statement sooo
since Bush 1 incited the Kurds to revolt, and Saddam massacred them, then isn't Bush as responsible for those deaths as well?
 Now for some American history;
google yourselves Marine Corps General Smedley D. Butler, one of America's most decorated war heroes. Of course I didn't expect to many of you to know that but anyway check him out.

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

This coming from one of America's  most decorated soldiers!
Now all you Americans go out and buy "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen
and remember "if you broke it you bought it!!

"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2006, 04:45:15 PM »
Wow, Johnny, I am really impressed.  Thanks for the article!

Val
___
___
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2006, 04:54:38 PM »
Wow, Johnny, I am really impressed.  Thanks for the article!

Val
___
___
What you thought I was just another love toy! ::)
Johnny
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline anniebc

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2006, 05:44:06 AM »
Ah Captian Pugwash you never cease to amaze me (said Roger the cabin boy.. ;))...thanks for that Johnny, a very interesting read.

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2006, 06:15:25 AM »
.....oops. Click on photo to enlarge.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 06:19:05 AM by Dachshund »

Offline Gary85741

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2006, 07:53:43 AM »
I wonder if he will hang, or will he die of old age in jail as our condemned do.


They said once the case is reviewed and affirmed by a higher-level court (which shouldn't take more than three months,) then his execution must be carried out within thirty days.

So clearly it won't be like death penalty cases here, where many sit (and are taxpayer-supported) for fifteen...twenty...twenty-five years.  It's worst in the ninth circuit, which comprises most of the western states, where they seemingly sit forever as the court stonewalls these cases.

Gary
Poz since '89. 
Current regimen: Rescriptor, Emtriva, Kaletra, Invirase, Acyclovir, Lisinopril, Lipitor, Prilosec, Valium, Testim, Nandrolone, Loperamidr, Marinol.

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2006, 08:30:52 AM »
to the question of why we didn't do anything about Saddam in the 80s. Maybe we were hoping that Iraq would be a pain in Irans ass? They did have a pretty good war going on for several years in the 80s and Iran had declared War on us by kidnapping US employees in the embassy when the peanut farmer was president

I still dont understand the Haliburton rants. I heard none of this when Clinton,Johnson,and Carter were president. Hal has been used by every President since late 40s to do the the jobs no one else is prepared to do.
I am sure they have over charged the government on some jobs,all companies do this and its the governments job to watch how our money is spent. If the government can find someone else to do the job that Hal does,they should do it. Sort of like Tobacco, our politicians carry on about it 7/24 but subsidize the  people who grow it cause they love the taxes(government revenue)from Tobacco. Just make the shit illegal. Stop doing business with Hal if you think they are fucking us. Again every president for the last 50years has used Hal on a no bid basis.
 Blaming  Bush for Federal Bureaucracy failures is just silly. I wonder how many Federal employees vote republican. Maybe none.
What was really funny about the Hal headline  last week about them cheating the government was there was nothing there. If you read the article the only thing they could find wrong was that Hal submitted some material in Adobe Acrobat and some in Excel and the stupid fuckers in our federal government didn't know how to open up Adobe Acrobat. The government then accused Hal of trying to stonewall their investigation because they(stupid fuckers who work in Federal Bureaucracy)were either to moronic or to lazy to download Adobe acrobat.


Offline Dachshund

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2006, 08:54:11 AM »
God Bless Halliburton

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« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 08:55:44 AM by Dachshund »

Offline frenchpat

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2006, 09:01:44 AM »
to the question of why we didn't do anything about Saddam in the 80s. Maybe we were hoping that Iraq would be a pain in Irans ass? They did have a pretty good war going on for several years in the 80s and Iran had declared War on us by kidnapping US employees in the embassy when the peanut farmer was president

1) there is nothing like "a pretty good war". I am sure you wouldn't call the Vietnam war that - why this one?

2) As far as the history of US meddling with Iran and who declares war on whom, I suggest you search for "Mossadegh" on the internet... or better, open a history book.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/martinrowson/0,,1940658,00.html


Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline Val

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2006, 09:37:16 AM »
When I first read Teresa's post I said to myself: "Oh my, they will do it again!"  And they will!  They will because this must be a sign of the times; they will because that's what the American people want! They will because the entire U.S. media --- with a very few exception and thank goodness for this --- is gagged!
Welcome to the cynical  Bushworld and the puppet government and so-called Tribunal in Iraq.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/media/2006/1017novsurprise.htm
Arthus Bertrand
http://www.yannarthusbertrand.com/yann2/affichage.php?reference=TVDC%20YABFR084&pais=France
Ali Mahdavi
http://asyoudesireme.online.fr/index.htm
Richard de Chazal
http://www.richarddechazal.com/
Daniel Nassoy
http://www.danielnassoy.com/pages/galeries_portraits_2.html
Photography:
The word comes from the Greek words φως phos ("light"), and γραφίς graphis ("stylus", "paintbrush") or γραφή graphê, together meaning "drawing with light" or "representation by means of lines".

Offline jack

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2006, 09:51:34 AM »
1.Still dont understand the Hal stuff. Cheney sold all his stock before the election in 2000. Cheney was more than likely asked to leave HAL. He bought a company, I forget the name, on a hunting trip, that had huge asbestos lawsuits pending.  Cheney is not close to HAL execs or powers to be for that reason
2.Name me one popular war. And dont say the "war on poverty".
3. I guess Iran didnt take US state dept employees hostage. It did happen.

I hate this mission to spread Democracy that Bush has us on. If you are gonna go to war,your goal should be to win and get the fuck out as soon as possible. We fire bombed and nuked the Japs. They were more than willing to follow our advice after that.  The population is gonna fear and gravitate to whichever side is inflicting the most pain on them in hopes it will stop. We have not made the Iraqis suffer, we have been on some sick mission of mercy or democracy and the terrorists are inflicting terrible pain on civilians. I apologize, but thats what war is about. Killing and destroying, and if you dont have the stomach or balls to do your enemy one worse than he is doing you, you shouldnt go to war.



Offline Dachshund

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2006, 10:25:03 AM »
"If Jesus were alive today he would most likely work for Halliburton."

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« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 10:37:48 AM by Dachshund »

Offline libvet

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2006, 10:33:23 AM »
Jack,

When one is in high office, one should avoid even the appearance of conflict of interest.  And no-bid contracts to a company very closely linked to vice president certainly reeks of it.

And Cheney WAS the CEO of Halliburton and he still owns 433 thousand unexercised stock options and is still receiving a salary from the company.

In my book, that still qualifies as being closely tied to a company.   


As far as Iran goes, no one is questioning what happened a quarter of  a century earlier.

What I question is clinging to the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".   That doesn't seem to work out very well for the United States.  The Mujahideen in Afghanistan weren't exactly our good buddies, but we did give them material aid.  We got Osama bin Laden and the Taliban for our troubles for maybe accelerating the Soviet Union collapsing under it's own weight by about a year or so at best (as was predicted by CIA in the early 70's that it was only a matter of years before the Soviets would crumble). 

And then we have our good buddy Saddam Hussein which was the end result of cozying up to yet another petty dictator for the sake of expediency.

And I am not completely comfortable with our working relationship with Musharaf in Pakistan who rose to power by way of a military coup and rules his country pretty much the way Saddam did throughout the mid-70's and 80's.

I wonder how long it will be until we are dealing with a threat from our good buddies in Pakistan who are now a nuclear power?

I will agree wholeheartedly that the spreading democracy mission is sheer idiocy.  Not in idea, but in execution.  Imposing democracy at gunpoint isn't bright.   The best way to invoke change is to lead by example and try to show those countries that have embraced theocracies and such that they can be the masters of their own destiny and let the change come from within through diplomacy and being a beacon of freedom and human dignity for all to see.

Sadly, we seem to have chosen another path on both fronts.

Offline jack

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2006, 01:35:44 PM »
I give up. Cheney sold all his stock before the election,well before the deadline  because Dems were making a big stink as usual. So Cheney went and dumped all his stock.  He dumped while Clinton was president and before the Mkt crash started. Then the Dems got pissed cause he sold before the mkt crash. He gave some of his profits to charity.
Any salary he is receiving from Hal would be at a set price when he retired. In other words his payout from the company would not be increased by favors he might do.
What you all dont seem to understand is that there is no other company in the world that can do what or willing to do what Hal does. They have billions invested in equipment that sit ready for when the government needs it. Now I guess the government could go buy all the same shit and let it sit around but if you think some overbilling by Hal is a big deal wait till you see when the feds get involved full time.
Hey we are going to war, but before we go,lets go get bids from US companies. You have to live in reality

Offline SirPrize

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2006, 01:52:59 PM »
ALLAHU AKBAR.....ALLAHU AKBAR
Due to current economic conditions, the light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarily turned off!

Offline libvet

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2006, 02:38:27 PM »
What you all dont seem to understand is that there is no other company in the world that can do what or willing to do what Hal does. They have billions invested in equipment that sit ready for when the government needs it.

How.....convenient.  And untrue.  So Halliburton is the only company in the entire world capable putting out oil fires (as the fear was that would happen)?   I guess no one ever heard of Fluor, the Parsons Group, Schlumberger and Foster Wheeler.  And who knew that the only engineering and construction companies in the US were all subsidiaries of Halliburton?  Oh, wait.....that's not really the case either.

And it's really easy to set aside resources for when a government needs it, like the bang up job Halliburton's subsidiary KBR did in New Orleans....when one knows that they can get a quick no-bid contract at cost plus and then suck down our tax dollars like Hummer sucks down gasoline.

I want you to know, that I don't point these things out because I bear any personal enmity towards you, Jack/Jake.  It's just that some things get repeated so often that people assume they are true when they really aren't.

But you know, I'm not even bothered so much by the fact that it was a no-bid contract as the fact that the oversight of our expenses in Iraq have been less than adequate.  Should we be awarding contracts to a company that routinely overbills the US government for services provided?  Or the fact that Halliburton uses 55 percent of each dollar spent in Iraq on "administrative costs" which is significantly higher by percentage than any other company working in Iraq.

It's called war-profiteering Jake, and it's treasonous to the American public and if the republican congress and republican White House won't reign in the war profiteering, then we need to replace them with someone who actually will hold their feet to the fire for the numerous instances of fleecing the American public and providing substandard services in return (such as lovely incident with the expired food and contaminated water being served to our troops).



Offline Dachshund

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Re: Saddam sentenced to hang
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2006, 03:05:46 PM »



........I love you libvet!

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