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Author Topic: 9/11 Museum  (Read 1070 times)

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Offline mecch

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9/11 Museum
« on: May 20, 2014, 02:54:57 PM »
Why isn't this a National Museum and more so "National Memorial"? Why isn't it free?!  Why is there a gift shop! Yuck. 

I saw a TV interview with the museum director.  It seemed to me, that she didn't get it!  There was something scripted and unctuous about her dialogue. 

I like the fountains!

But ensemble, I think the whole shebang cost way too much and is sort of a dour gesture.  It seems overly bombastic - I don't know how it will age, for example.  But now that they built the thing, jeez, it ought to be free, and no freakin gift shop!!!

I remember a few years after 9/11 reading about how the Isreali's deal with terrorism in their country.  The article said, they clean up the disgusting mess and the city goes back to business A.S.A.P.   I know that's not appropriate for 9/11.  But this monumental sanctimony and hero-creation... I dunno. I'll go visit it this summer and hopefully find it a better experience than anticipated.  But gift shop.?  Gift shop?!!!

I agree with this fireman's dad:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/20/911-museum-gift-shop_n_5354368.html
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 03:01:07 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 03:08:35 PM »
Here's a good post by a Huff Post reader with some context on the funding:

Xerxes Trust (xerxestrust)
I wish the article gave more context - but really it does not take more than 2 seconds for anyone here to get the facts:
The museum is a nonprofit entity with a projected annual operation costs of $60+ million dollars per year, $10 million of which is heightened security measures for obvious reasons. As it stands now, the combined revenue from entry fees AND concessions such as the gift shop add up to only $40 million dollars. They have to raise the additional $20 million per year through fundraising activities - a herculean task in of itself especially if they forgo the option to have crass corporate sponsorships.
The museum, while its $700 million dollar construction costs was funded 50% from public $$, does not currently have any sizable amounts of public money to fund its ongoing operational expenses.
There is a bill in Congress to provide federal dollars to support museum similar to other landmark museums, but it has not passed.

The museum is free to 9/11 families and has free admission times on a regular basis (Tuesday evenings I think) for those who cannot afford it.
While I empathize with the father and understand his outrage in context of his loss, his time would be better spent increasing public awareness about the museum's funding needs and/or lobbying Congress to pass the bill rather than vilifying the museum for trying to do everything it can to sustain a place for people to reflect and remember.
20 MAY 5:58 PM
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2014, 11:12:25 PM »
I think we need to fund this and make it free admission.  The gift shop items are awful, in my opinion.  I understand they say they have to pay for the museum, though.  As so many politicians like to use 9/11 for political benefit, they need to pay for this to be like Arlington. 

I agree with many of the families-- If they are going to charge (even family members of the dead) to visit and sell key chains, then they need to remove the remains to another location. 

Offline AusShep

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 08:56:36 PM »
The bad press is getting worse after having a coctail party next to the graves of over 1000 unidentified remains. 

Booze-fuelled VIP party at 9/11 museum sparks outrage in New York
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/booze-fuelled-vip-party-911-museum-3582468

9/11 Museum Not the Best Place for a Cocktail Party
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/05/911-museum-not-the-best-place-for-a-party.html


Offline mecch

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 09:41:24 PM »
This doesn't surprise me. As I said when I saw the museum director interviewed, she seemed tone deaf.  It was awkward, in my opinion.  Does not understand that it can not be a "museum space" participating in that kind of "classy museum" business. 

So what team of directors figured this cocktail black-tie opening was appropriate? It should have been at city hall with an optional tour down to the museum/memorial, for interested invitees.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Joe K

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 10:31:57 PM »
If they didn't want a gift shop, they should have fully funded the museum.  What has happened to logic?  Your operating budget is more than you get from whatever sources, so exactly how are they supposed to make up the difference?  They are running the museum as you would an art museum, but this museum is one of a kind.  If you don't want the museum "whoring" itself to meets its obligations, then cover all the expenses.

This is not rocket science.

Joe

Offline Ann

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 04:22:27 AM »
If they didn't want a gift shop, they should have fully funded the museum.  What has happened to logic?  Your operating budget is more than you get from whatever sources, so exactly how are they supposed to make up the difference?  They are running the museum as you would an art museum, but this museum is one of a kind.  If you don't want the museum "whoring" itself to meets its obligations, then cover all the expenses.

This is not rocket science.

Joe

What I don't get is why they had to make it a museum at all. IMHO, it should have been a memorial, nothing more, nothing less. It's like having a museum in a graveyard - memorials are more appropriate. The operating costs of a memorial would have been much, much lower, only having to pay a small maintenance staff. A museum could have been sited somewhere else.

Does anyone know off-hand how holocaust sites such as Auschwitz are run? I know they have tours, but I don't believe they are museums as such. And I very much doubt they have on-site gift shops. 
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 08:23:13 AM »

Does anyone know off-hand how holocaust sites such as Auschwitz are run? I know they have tours, but I don't believe they are museums as such. And I very much doubt they have on-site gift shops. 

Auschwitz has a bookstore. Anne Frank's House has a gift shop, as does the US Holocaust Museum. Plus maybe if Auschwitz had a proper tchotchke store then this wouldn't be happening.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 08:36:22 AM »
Oh, and when the $4 billion Santiago Calatrava station opens up next year right next door you will witness the birth of NYC's latest high end designer store mecca. Along with next month's opening of Brookfield Place across the street from WTC the entire area is going uber-luxe. Aspinal of London is opening an absinthe bar overlooking the charred remains of unidentified bodies.

Gotta have place for The Clackers to shop when Ms. Wintour moves her offices to WTC1.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 08:53:44 AM »
Oh, and when the $4 billion Santiago Calatrava station opens up next year right next door you will witness the birth of NYC's latest high end designer store mecca. Along with next month's opening of Brookfield Place across the street from WTC the entire area is going uber-luxe. Aspinal of London is opening an absinthe bar overlooking the charred remains of unidentified bodies.

Gotta have place for The Clackers to shop when Ms. Wintour moves her offices to WTC1.

If we don't support the free market the terrorists have won. They should get it over with and sell the naming rights to Doritos or Quicken Loans.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 09:12:09 AM by Dachshund »

Offline mecch

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 09:17:37 AM »
In my opinion, the mistake was made over 10 years ago in when the politicians and media types decided this locale was "hallowed ground".  I guess so, but it was intellectually and geographically too vast.  I think the fountains in the footsteps is great and that should have been enough, with a contemplative plaza.  That could have been the memorial. Museum interpretation could go to the Museum of the City of New York.  And otherwise, get on with business and real-estate.  But its too late.
The transportation hub is sort of a bombastic (pun-intended) fraud.  Its so grand, because its a riposte to terrorism, not because of a transit need in terms of volume of commuters and connections made.   Sorry but I predict a soulless place, like something built for an olympics and "repurposed".  Or worse, as sort of "people's cathedral" inspiration - a tele-evangelist church-like structure inevitably on a road to retail vacancies...

I am going to hope and predict that high-end retailers will be on street level and not in the concourses of this thing.  Inside the mall-like thing will be mid-level retail and sandwich shops, service shops, etc.  That would be GOOD, actually! Would be nice in the winter at least for local workers.  There are the winter garden atriums down at the world trade centre (the smaller newer towers that were not destroyed) - when I worked there, it was nice to go eat under big glass.

Speaking of geography and climate change, when I worked at the NYSE I remember it was downhill from Broadway and the same for World Trade Center on the other side. If I were a retailer I'd want to be on higher ground up along the ridge that runs up to City Hall.

Did anyone shell out for flood protection of all these spaces or is it one huge boondoggle waiting to happen?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cuomo-5b-plan-shield-transit-superstorms-article-1.1737194


ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 11:32:56 AM »
As far as the Calatrava station (his work always comes in way over budget) it was supposed to be a sort of Grand Central for downtown -- the thinking being initially that they would construct a tunnel under the East River to connect it with the LIRR terminus in downtown Brooklyn, thus offering a (much needed) direct link to JFK airport. Unfortunately the money is being gobbled up by the (also much needed) new 2nd Ave subway line.

For a "triple alpha" global city comparable to London and Tokyo, NYC has abysmal rail links to its three airports.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 11:39:13 AM »

Auschwitz has a bookstore. Anne Frank's House has a gift shop, as does the US Holocaust Museum.


I was specifically speaking of sites where there are human remains.

I've been to the Anne Frank house. The gift shop is a very sombre, dignified affair that sells mainly books and postcards.


In my opinion, the mistake was made over 10 years ago in when the politicians and media types decided this locale was "hallowed ground".  I guess so, but it was intellectually and geographically too vast.  I think the fountains in the footsteps is great and that should have been enough, with a contemplative plaza.  That could have been the memorial. Museum interpretation could go to the Museum of the City of New York.  And otherwise, get on with business and real-estate.  But its too late.


Pretty much what I had in mind.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Theyer

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 01:52:10 PM »
The unforgivable attacks on Jewish sites off importance to the World is like Chinese water torture .

The Jewish Museum  in Vienna , a place I love to visit, is in a small square in the oldest Part off Vienna .Small one car roads lead into the Square  6 armed Police are on constant Position in the tiny square, guarding it from attack. Profoundly depressing.

All off the content in this thread about the development in NY has nothing to do with a suitable memorial to a horrendous attack . Seems to me the memorial has yet to be built, maybe a space will evolve tangential to the planners which will serve the role off least we forget.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 02:03:15 PM by Theyer »
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline Miss Philicia

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"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AusShep

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 07:40:07 PM »
9/11 Museum gift shop nixes cheese plate, changes souvenir vetting process

And the first comment on the article:
The cheese plates can now be found on eBay, marketed as a collectors' item.

I agree the dog vests, jewelry and other tchotchkes don't belong there.   Let vendors with carts sell that crap a block away like everywhere else.  IMO, a memorial would have been much better and wouldn't take over a million dollars a week to run like the current setup where they need to charge and sell junk to still lose money.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 11:29:04 PM »
I cannot remember that day and the dead without a coffee mug or keychain. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2014, 06:33:26 AM »
People keep saying "a memorial would have been much better"! Well, duh -- there is a one and it's been open for years now. The museum is a component of the memorial.

As far as operating costs ($60 million annually) -- the memorial (meaning the huge reflecting pools, waterfalls, lighting) costs money annually too (just running the waterfalls continually costs $5 million annually). Plus there are extensive security costs ($12 million annually alone -- which is more than the budget for Gettysburg and Pearl Harbor's TOTAL budgets) for the entire area because of continual terrorism threats. You have to pass through airport-like security just to enter the perimeter area. Something tells me that none of this is paid for with taxes by the residents of Texas as if it was a run by the National Park Service. Hence the museum fee which goes to the foundation also probably offsets the cost for the above ground memorial, and many people will probably just visit that and not go into the museum because of cost. At the end of the day there's no good reason that some poor family in outer Queens should be paying for this with their NYC city income taxes annually, much less state tax.

I wouldn't be surprised if the foundation goes bankrupt within 20 years and the National Park Service will take this over.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:37:57 AM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AusShep

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Re: 9/11 Museum
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 10:55:19 AM »
The federal govt pays 20 of 60 million operating costs via budget legislation. 

By comparison, Federal funding for the Vietnam memorial visitors center is 2 million beginning 2015, no impact 2010 to 2015.  No idea on security and maintenance costs.   

Regardless, I find the whole 911 hallowed ground, politics around it, and gift shop tacky.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 10:59:00 AM by AusShep »

 


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