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Author Topic: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?  (Read 10888 times)

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Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,885
  • the one and original newt
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2006, 06:05:35 PM »
Plus you have to allow for efavirenz (Sustiva)

- matt

Now playing: AFTC & Inaya Day, Mine
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Terry

  • Member
  • Posts: 339
  • 7/13/82 Infected
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2006, 09:18:45 PM »
 :(

Peter,

AIDSmeds.com, years ago use to be about, (Well at least for me it was.) AIDS and the Medications/treatment/side-effects/support available.   It was not whether a person was male, female, gay, straight, intelligent, dumb, young or old, black or white. It was more about obtaining the hard to find information pertaining to dealing with, living with, and surviving HIV/AIDS.

After Dynamic David was permanently band from this site it gradually evolved into what I now consider to be a gay chat room/playground. (No longer does it seem to even remotely represent what this sites original purpose seemed to offer everyone.) David was bad enough; but he wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to some of the horrific comments that get tossed back and forth in these forums now. “From all corners of the earth.”

It seems to me that now the theme in here is, a person will post a new topic and then the few (Flamers) take over and attack another person that responds to that thread. Feeding their huge egos and lacking any kind of respect for other members or for that matter the moderators who are then viscously attacked over and over. Insultingly, they are referred to as Goderator's.

Some people have been given TO because they spoke up to the offending flamers.
Some have been given TO defending their honor. “Which in my opinion is so very wrong.”


I am all for permanently banning anyone that is unable to respect others as equals, or who cannot abide by the posted rules set down here.

Personally, I do not care if someone gets a Prince Albert, or a tattoo, gives great head or their puppy pees on their new carpet. I don’t waste my time reading those kinds of posts.

I care about (And occasionally offer my two cents worth if it helps) the person that is finding it difficult dealing with their everyday dilemma and stresses of having HIV or AIDS. Subjects like SSDI, finances, moving, family problems, medications, and side effects, maintaining insurance ADAP and of course, my favorite subject politics. Quite often I get my ass chewed out for sharing what I have already lived through. But that’s life.

I haven’t been contributing to the forums lately mainly due to some very serious heath issues of my own that I‘ve had to deal with. Fortunately, I have support from people other than this forum that gets me through my difficult days.

The ones that offend the most in here sadly do so because their own lives are so empty. And possibly because of drug and/or alcohol abuse. Dynamic David was the perfect example of that kind of person.

First offence, A warning that the tone is not appropriate.
Second offence, A serious time out. (Made public to everyone)
Third offence, We don’t want to have to tell you again. Another even longer time out. (Final warning)
Fourth offence, You’re out of here. And everyone is told why. (Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.)

PS. I do not feel TO have been dealt with even handedly. 
 









Offline Longislander

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,486
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2006, 09:54:30 PM »
Terry,
I know you addressed your post to directly to Peter. A few things, first and foremost I hope you've been able to successfully deal with your health issues. I'm sorry you feel you couldn't get support from these forums during this time. Did you ask for any?

I noticed in your list of interests, (Subjects like SSDI, finances, moving, family problems, medications, and side effects, maintaining insurance ADAP and of course, my favorite subject politics.) there's nothing in there about lightness and humor. I can't tell you how immeasurable the good-natured, light-hearted jokes/comments, have been in these past two months I've been here.  I love it when I read some post and I just can't stop laughing. It makes my day.

I just don't even know what to say about the 'gay...playground" I do know that I spend everyday of my life in a straight Disneyworld.

These are my observations, and definitely not meant as an attack on your opinions.


As for TO's, if you act like children, you should be treated like children. I know I spend HOURS trying to get through the posts in only Livng with, and off-topic. I can't imagine what it takes for the moderators to het through all of this. Give them a break.
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline Iggy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,435
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2006, 10:15:26 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:03:33 PM by Iggy »

Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,939
  • AM member since 2003
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2006, 10:44:55 PM »
Quote
Personally, I do not care if someone gets a Prince Albert, or a tattoo, gives great head or their puppy pees on their new carpet. I don’t waste my time reading those kinds of posts.

This is what the "off Topic" is for, not everyone is fortunate enough to have someone they can sit down with at the end of the day and tell them all about the little things that happen to them, the little things that made them smile or cry..it may sound trivial to you but it's not to them.

Quote
I care about (And occasionally offer my two cents worth if it helps) the person that is finding it difficult dealing with their everyday dilemma and stresses of having HIV or AIDS. Subjects like SSDI, finances, moving, family problems, medications, and side effects, maintaining insurance ADAP and of course, my favorite subject politics. Quite often I get my ass chewed out for sharing what I have already lived through. But that’s life

This is what the "Living with" forum is for, granted it's not always used for the reasons you state...as Iggy said maybe the moderators should re-evaluate the criteria.

I have read your replies and posts over the time you have been here and I know you have recieved and have given some great advise, I know a lot of the guys have learnt from you...I also agree with everything you have said regarding TO's, and the fact that they have not been dealt with fairly.

I for one hope you stay around..stick with the "Living with" you can do a lot of good if you do.

I'm glad to hear you have a good supprot group and are getting on top of things..but please remember not everyone has that support outside of these forums...a sad state of affairs I know but true.
 :-*
Hugs
Jan

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 10:54:37 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Longislander

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,486
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2006, 10:48:13 PM »
not everyone is fortunate enough to have someone they can sit down with at the end of the day and tell them all about the little things that happen to them, the little things that made them smile or cry..


So true
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2006, 03:34:42 AM »
This site will always be for people who are having a bad day, month, year, life...  People who want to vent over jobs, health care, families or the site itself.  And we all want to listen and help.  I feel this discussion is about a narrow segment of flame-throwers and cutthroats who do not add to the "family atmosphere" of the site.  Criticism of ideas, actions, decisions and beliefs is OK.  Attacks on people are not.  Stay focused on the problem at hand and lets not wander too far off the challenge before us.  It's painful, but limited.
Agreed and very good point.  It's easy to lump everything into this discussion, because that tends to muddy up the water.  But no one (I think) is talking about banning folks for occasionally getting upset or lashing out in anger.  This is strictly about folks who time after time personally attack other forum members and moderators, and folks who are constantly on TO's because of flame-wars.

I think the TO's should be fairly issued.  But I also recognize that it's nearly impossible to define what is fair treatment.  Each case has to be looked at on its own merit.  Issuing TO's to all parties involved in a thread that went out of control, isn't always the fairest solution.  I also recognize that all of us have our loyalties and sometimes disputes about moderator action is less about what was fair in that situation, but rather, who is friends with whom.

Yes, people with HIV should receive compassion.  But, having compassion shouldn't mean excusing behaviour that was already determined to be unacceptable (and behaviour a member has been repeatedly warned about).  Having compassion also means looking out for individuals who are constantly on the receiving end of these personal attacks and insults.  They have HIV too and deserve compassion and respect.

Clif

Offline Terry

  • Member
  • Posts: 339
  • 7/13/82 Infected
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2006, 11:30:22 AM »
I'm sorry you feel you couldn't get support from these forums during this time. Did you ask for any?

Islander,

I did not ask for support nor did I look for it. I only mentioned my health situation, in another thread to point out the lack of receiving HIV meds in an emergency room setting so that other people could be more prepared in a similar situation. I would hope to be there for you and anyone else if ever needed.

I noticed in your list of interests, (Subjects like SSDI, finances, moving, family problems, medications, and side effects, maintaining insurance ADAP and of course, my favorite subject politics.) there's nothing in there about lightness and humor.

For humor I go to “Off Topics”. And I have to say a couple of people over there should do stand-up comedy. They are that good. Lwood for example, is a natural.


I just don't even know what to say about the 'gay...playground" I do know that I spend everyday of my life in a straight Disneyworld.

As Jan so clearly said, that’s what “Off Topics” is there for. “Living with” at least for me has nothing to do with being gay. It has all to do with dealing with and surviving HIV/AIDS. I’ve said it many times in the past This site (AIDSmeds) has saved my life.

These are my observations, and definitely not meant as an attack on your opinions.

I’m complimented by your comments. I’m even blushing.

I can't imagine what it takes for the moderators to het through all of this. Give them a break.


“Ditto.” My feelings exactly. Now let’s return this thread to the subject at hand. Which Iggy has done a very good job at explaining. I might add that most people in this forum mean the world to me even though I may never meet them.  :-*


Offline Lisa

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,240
  • Formerly known as sweetieweasel/Joined Nov. 2004
    • http://www.myspace.com/lisanowak58
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2006, 03:48:07 PM »
I think the first thing I would like to say, is that I took note of a phrase that I encountered in Matt's post.(newt) There has been some consternation over the words "time out", as we normally associate this with a corrective action utilized for behavioral modification in small children.

I really like the verbage "account suspension", as it may be less personally offensive to forum users.

I think a first warning should be given publicly, and Section 8, paragraph 3, of the Terms of Use should be specifically referenced. The language here is quite clear regarding the responsibilities of each member.

If the parties involved do not heed the warning, then a one week suspension will ensue, followed by a two week suspension, then a month.
If a member doesn't seem to get the message after these measures, they should be banned.

So, my vote is, 1.) public warning 2.) 1 week account suspension
3.) 2 week suspension 4.) 1 month suspension 5.) ban

I cannot speak to the founders decisions regarding whether to ban some members as a result of the current climate. While I would like to hope you would reserve that action for a future time, it is not within my immediate right to ask that you persevere from this day forward, I can only hope that prudence will play a significant role in your decision making.
I have more to say, but this will suffice for now.


























No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline jack

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2006, 07:08:41 AM »
We all have bad days and say stuff we regret, that being said this is a business and it needs rules or it will lose its financial support.
Hey how about a list of who is TO'd? That way we have an idea who and what get you To'd and also lets us know the former member isnt dead.

Offline Florida69

  • Member
  • Posts: 428
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2006, 03:42:03 PM »
As a pretty much newby to the site, I have read through some of the numerous posts.  I have to admit each time I come here I am overwhelmed by the issues discussed and how far some of the members go with the negative comments...  With that said, I only post to folks that I know, I am careful what I say and as of yet am afraid to start a new topic, who knows the way it will go...  I hope you guys get it figured out... Take care, D
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge

Offline allopathicholistic

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2006, 08:23:34 PM »
As a pretty much newby to the site, I have read through some of the numerous posts.  I have to admit each time I come here I am overwhelmed by the issues discussed and how far some of the members go with the negative comments...  With that said, I only post to folks that I know, I am careful what I say and as of yet am afraid to start a new topic, who knows the way it will go...  I hope you guys get it figured out... Take care, D

hey D - they're all bark and no bite. don't be shy  :D

Offline Peter Staley

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  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2006, 09:03:07 AM »
Hey folks:

We are pretty close to issuing a new TO & Banning policy, so if you haven't chimed in with your opinions on this, this weekend would be your last chance to do so.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

Offline Trish

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2006, 11:03:20 AM »
I think timeouts are necessary when the shit hits the fan, however, they should be handed out justly and as written by the moderators.  Myself, John (kcmetroman) and Joe (killfoile) were unjustly timed out with one week.  For each of us, it was our first offense and as such, we should have received 2 day TO's, not 1 week.  Oh well, what's done is done.

I do feel that I warranted a timeout (not a week though, 2 days would have been appropriate)... I probably should have received one a few months ago, but, whatever...

I just think that whatever policy is instituted, the rules should apply to everyone equally and justly.  Giving timeouts unjustly or out of frustration and on a whim, is well, just not fair. ::)

That's all I have to say on this subject.  However, I do have more to say, but I will be posting that under a new topic so as not to hijack this thread.

Just to add... I do appreciate that the moderators are willing to hear us all out on this subject before forging ahead.  I just hope that in the future they will follow the policies that they have written.
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,660
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2006, 04:44:04 PM »
The only suggestion I have for this whole issue is that maybe the moderators could approach a few members to act as a go-between when tempers flare.  I found it very difficult to communicate with Peter about my TO, because he held the position of authority.  Maybe if another member were to contact someone, before a TO they could diffuse the situation.  I still believe that if someone, who remembered my history, were to have interceded that my situation would have ended differently.

The bottom line is we are a support forum and that includes supporting virtually everyone, with the exception of denialists and some posters who simply cannot be helped.

I would rather see a hand extended in each situation and then if that hand is refused, you simply follow the policy.  I believe we owe it to our members to try and understand what may be provoking someone, rather than just TO them and leave them twisting in the wind.  Surely we can do better than that.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2006, 06:05:13 PM »
I don't think that the TO is going to ever be done fairly. It was shown again today. One person made a remark, four others chimed in and made similar remarks and only one received a warning. If the TO is going to be issued, it should be issued fairly across the board.

Offline OzPaul

  • Member
  • Posts: 410
  • a very blessed 29 year ltnp
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2006, 06:28:01 PM »
I've chimed in here before but I'd like to add a couple more cents.

I think the policy and rules here are good, however they need to made evenly in all circumstances wherever possible. Equal treatment for all. To be given a one week time out without warning or even a first step of a two day time out, goes against the rules as I understand them.

I like Joe's idea of an intermediary, though I'm not sure how this work work, in practice. I support the moderators and think they do an excellent job, however sometimes things do and have gotten out of hand while there are no moderators logged in. Perhaps an additional moderator/mediator might be called for.

In any case, I think that these discussions are important so we may all have a chance to voice our concerns. We are a large and diverse group of people here. Thanks for the opportunity to be heard.

One last thought. As a means of getting advice from those of us out here in cyberspace perhaps a polling of choices might be appropriate before a decision is made. At least as a next step, a sort of consultation.

More than my two cents.

Cheers
Paul

Offline gerry

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  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2006, 06:41:01 PM »
I have seen some non-moderator members try to intervene in the middle of these heated arguments (even in the old forums) to try to cool the participants down, to no avail.  After doing that a few times, it just comes to a point of "why bother!"  Let's face it, in the middle of highly charged emotional exchanges, intermediaries rarely work unless they ARE in a position of authority.  I think locking the runaway thread, even temporarily, is a very useful tool to cool things down.  At least by doing so, and warning not to start another one in the same vein until the mods have talked it out, no one is necessarily "Timed Out" unless someone persists.  But since mods are not always available, this will not always work.

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2006, 09:04:32 AM »
With respect to specific suggestions, I would be in favor of changing the duration of the current "TOs" to something like one or two public warnings (specifying the behavior that is unacceptable), then a 7-day TO, then a 30-day TO, then a permanent ban.  I don't think a 2-day ban serves any meaningful purpose at all that cannot be accomplished by locking the thread and issuing a warning not to perpetrate the behavior by starting a new thread in the same vein.

Hear hear! Gerry's suggestions are simple and GORGEOUS! Thank you Gerry!  I say: Anything less than 7-days is pointless/ineffective. Thanks Mods: for asking again, and thanks overall

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2006, 09:14:01 AM »
Lotsa great suggestions - time for the moderators to make a decision and bring closure.

Offline Iggy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,435
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2006, 09:50:43 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 07:35:53 PM by Iggy »

Offline kcmetroman

  • Member
  • Posts: 567
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2006, 10:26:16 AM »
Quote
Jan -- maybe I should clarify my poor choice of words.  I didn't mean to imply that all "old timers" should be given the boot -- not at all.  There are just a handful of members who have repeatedly engaged in flame wars with eachother, and it just so happens that all of them have been in the forums a long time.  I didn't mean to imply that our long-term members, just by the length of their membership, are at risk of being banned.

Again, I'm only talking about a very small group of folks who have continually ignored our pleas for civility.  It is my humble opinion that these forums would survive just fine without them.  Sure, each of them has friends in these forums who would miss them, and complain loudly about their being banned, but that wouldn't prevent them from using email and IM and Skype and other forums (thebody.com) to continue their friendships.  What it would do is bring some civility to these forums, and send a very clear message that NO ONE is above the rules of these forums, no matter how long they've been here, or how many "friends" they have here.

Believe it or not, while it is important to me that the opinions and feelings of our members are listened to and respected, it is equally important to me that our moderators aren't treated like shit.  Many of you have no idea of how much work our moderators do to make these forums what they are.  I have no patience for members who disrespect their work.  I consider it an essential part of my job to protect the integrity of my co-moderators, and also to ensure that their job doesn't become overly burdensome.  Any system we consider for TOs and bannings must not place unreasonable demands on the moderators' work loads.  If one member of the forums persistently taxes the work load of my staff (both paid & volunteer), then at some point I will reluctantly have to risk some short-term grief by permanently banning that member, even if they're an "old timer" -- even if they've got lots of friends in the forums -- even if they're one of our bloggers (at least 2 of whom have been given TOs).

So for those of you who are reeling because you hate the heavy hand of our forums moderation scheme, blame me, not my co-moderators.  Bottom line -- these are, hands down, the best forums on the Internet for people living with HIV.  Why?  Because of our members, first and foremost.  AND, because these forums are heavily moderated (unlike almost all other HIV forums).  You have only to look at these other forums to see what kind of chaos we'd have here if it weren't for our strong moderation policies.

Okay, I've vented enough.  This is a great thread thus far, and I'm definitely listening closely to the suggestions made here to improve our current TO and banning system.  The current system isn't detailed enough, and because of that, it's been used inconsistently.  I apologize to everyone for that.  But I promise we'll do better in the future.  After everyone has their say in this thread (including those who will return to these forums after their current TOs), then we'll announce a new (and hopefully improved) policy.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

If this was the post you were referring to, I still didn't see it.  Can you help me here?

 


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