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Author Topic: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?  (Read 10618 times)

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Offline Dachshund

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Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« on: November 04, 2006, 10:11:44 AM »
Now that the dust has settled I think it is time to begin a rational discussion on just how time outs and banning of members should be administered. I think a magnanimous gesture by the moderators would be to give a blanket amnesty to those now serving a time out. Let's be the bigger person and allow all to participate in this discussion without recrimination. I hate rules, but I must admit they are necessary.

I taught elementary school for a good many years--and believe you me--I used many a time out as a method of behavior modification and punishment. After much trial and error, I learned it was much more effective when administered in private. Embarrassing someone in front of others is usually counter productive. So, that brings me to my first point. When as moderators you decide to give someone a time out--do it in private--we really don't need to know about it. A short private message to the "alleged" offender would suffice. Does it truly serve any purpose to make it public?

If you are receiving a bunch of complaints on a thread, step in. "You guys have gone far enough--we are locking this thread--no harm, no foul." Don't wait...because then you end up handing out punitive punishment to the bastards unlucky enough to be the last to post. When a hot topic has reached crescendo, it is about to flame out anyway--when it is down to the last two arguing most members have stopped paying attention.

Members should quit trying to be teacher's pets--save reporting to the moderators for important issues--spammers, trolls, denialists, etc. No one likes a tattle tale.

Look, as positive people we already deal with time outs and banishments in our everyday lives. Do we really want to make that part of the Aidsmeds experience? What I fear most is the construction of tighter rules. Participation without the fear of retribution is the only way this site will survive. Do we really want to be like the people in the ads that pay for this site...exactly the same?

I welcome your thoughts and suggestions.

Hal
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 10:13:23 AM by Dachshund »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2006, 10:30:58 AM »
I don't see a problem with time outs as you are well aware. Just so that it's done consistantly. We were both out of line, so we both had to pay the price.

Offline Life

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  • Member 2005
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2006, 10:32:16 AM »
Goofy picture retracted per Owners request... but it was true!

I just think there is something very very wrong when a post goes so far south and everyone is attracted to it... Isn't life hard enough dealing with hiv than fighting to get the last word, upper hand, win?   I moved to this site cuz there was supervision.   Ok you might think it nutty but my mental survival relies on this site to get on to the next day... I do not have the luxury of going to group or talking to other hiv +ve folks where I live.   So when the attitude of the forum goes into the shitter, so does my outlook...   And that is my fault, but its true and I don't like being tied to a thing that can give me hope or dash it to pieces...  I am sure others rely upon this site to "get to the next day".   Lets try and remember what the focus is here..  When a thread goes bad, I quit reading and feel sad, alone, isolated.

Soooo...  Whatever the moderators need to do to keep the focus on the title "LIVING WITH HIV" so be it..  I dont see this as a democracy here (they suck anyway).   Whatever the owners want to do is acceptable...  But to have threads go on for days thinking they will recover, I dont think so as its dragging the ENTIRE site into the toilet.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:59:54 AM by Eric »

Offline Jerry71

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  • {Lexiva, Norvir, Complera} Still Breathing!!!
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2006, 10:37:49 AM »
The Moderators are here just to do there job and to keep the peace on the forums if they were not here this place would be in Jearopdy all the time.

Offline Nadine

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2006, 10:38:14 AM »
LOL at Eric....

I think some of the threads on here have been getting way out of hand lately, They seem to go way off subject.  I am all for time outs, publicly or privately, don't really matter. I do agree with Rodney, they need to be done consistantly.

Offline alisenjafi

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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2006, 10:55:43 AM »
While I see the need to keep some sort of civility ( LOL) I found the use of time outs here used capriciously. As well as the fact that sometimes only one party has been held accountable for the tango.
I gave up awhile back of coming here to looking for any sort of enlightened conversation, and learned that just like me everyone here is steadfast in their on beliefs and prejudices.

Here is something interesting:
mtd's post of what first started out on the status of his health ended up getting 3495 views with 173 posts before it was locked and Peter's thread to improve the site only got 168 views with 6 responses before it floated out to cyber oblivion.
                          
    So you can gather the bitch fests get way more responses and views  then something aimed at improving the  site Not that there is anything wrong with that I too get get voyeuristic pleasure watching the usual battle it out. But I find the time out is making the site  just a little too antiseptic.

Lastly last night the matty thread took on a whole new light , when the Sustiva hit, I came to the sad realization that I will never have the honour of starting a thread where a member will end up complaining to the moderators that they were called "manpussy".
So I guess in the end it is what it is and "les dieux sont fous"
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:00:54 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2006, 11:00:00 AM »
Hal -- we won't be revoking the current TOs which will expire in 6 days.  That said, you make some very interesting points in your thread.

For one thing, we, as moderators, need to become consistant at whatever TO & banning policy we use.  Once we review our current policy (shown in the sticky thread at the top of this forum), we'll try to be more consistant going forward.

Your suggestion of keeping TOs anonymous is interesting.  I worry that we'll get lots of posts from others saying "where is xxx? was xxx banned?," etc.  Should we just ignore those questions?  Again, I think your suggestion is worth considering -- I'm just wondering how it might work if we do it that way.

Your suggestion of not really using TOs, but simply locking threads, is also worth considering.  The obvious downside to this is that folks will just start another thread and keep the flame war going.  What would we do then, just lock that thread too, or start using TOs?  Again, let's get very detailed here, or we'll never come up with a policy that's perceived as consistant.

And what about permanent bans?  When should they get triggered?  One thing's for sure, we won't abandon this tool.  The bans on Jazz and DynamicDavid were the best things we've done as moderators -- I'm convinced of this, especially after their true colors came out in the emails they still send us on a semi-regular basis (Jazz just sent one this week saying "God fuck yourself you cock sucking fags" -- lovely!).

Truth be told, after yesterday's melt-down in the forums, I'm leaning towards cleaning house here.  It seems to us that the same people are involved in endless flame wars that they won't let go of.  In my opinion, these forums would survive, and might even thrive, if some of these old-timers were given the boot.  I don't care how popular they are.  We're really sick of their constant flame wars.  My point being, we're considering some pretty drastic options.  As moderators, we're fed up, and we need to figure out a way to restore some civility here.  Any and all options are on the table.

This would be a great thread to hash this all out.  Let's get a good discussion going, and in 6 days, the current crop of TOs will expire, and they'll have plenty to read, and can weigh in then.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

Offline Moffie65

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  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2006, 11:10:39 AM »
Truth be told, after yesterday's melt-down in the forums, I'm leaning towards cleaning house here.  It seems to us that the same people are involved in endless flame wars that they won't let go of.  In my opinion, these forums would survive, and might even thrive, if some of these old-timers were given the boot.  I don't care how popular they are.  We're really sick of their constant flame wars.  My point being, we're considering some pretty drastic options.  As moderators, we're fed up, and we need to figure out a way to restore some civility here.  Any and all options are on the table.

Peter,

If my name is on the list of "oldtimers"; please let me know before you kick me out.  I would sadly, leave on my own.  Unfortunately, you and the other moderators could have avoided this sad situation if you had listened to some of us who personally know and intimately understand the people involved, and have continuously informed you of the need for action..  I cannot comment on Time outs, simply because I detest the very term for an HIV/AIDS Support site.  Unfortunately, we must all realize that not all HIV+ people are either nice, nor do they all have "proper toilet training".  Some of us have learned this the hard way, and others simply observers. 

This very subject should be handled with extreme care, otherwise the very nature of this site will change irreversibly in the future.  Maybe that is the goal, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why anything should be changed for the premere HIV site on the World Wide Web.

Only My Humble Opinion...
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Robert

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2006, 11:19:50 AM »
I know your looking for new ideas and I don't really have any.

I just find it hard to believe people go to such extremes to merit a time out.  It's a computer for Christ's sake.  It's not the real world.  Why get all bent out of shape about something from someone you don't even know, do not want to know and never will know?  How someone could anyone possibly get off on those types of rants is beyond me. 

That's simply not good for your numbers. 

It's simple.    If you get pissed, back off. 

robert
..........

Offline Jeffreyj

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  • Posts: 1,403
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2006, 11:22:31 AM »
What the heck, the owner of aidsmed should decide what's best for his websight.  It is a great place. And for those who can't follow the simple rules of civil behavior, toss there ass. Simple as that. It is those who go over the line, and have nothing to offer but mean spirited comments that make for a negative atmosphere.
 My dear God, isn't it enough we all have to deal with the daily crap of having this insidious disease???.  I come here for knowledge, comfort and enjoy the company of some very loving, kind souls. Is this bad?  All of this mindless, egotistical venom spewing is an annoying distraction. And more over, it's a waist of our VALUABLE time.
Obviously, the creator of AIDSMED knows what he is doing. I say: HIS Place HIS Rules. Who can dispute a genius who had the vision of creating this place?
IN HIM I TRUST.

If you want evil crap and mean people, just turn on the Nightly News.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:24:31 AM by Jeffreyj »
Positive since 1985

Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,943
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2006, 11:32:41 AM »
As my wise ol' granny use to say, "the devil is in the details." Peter, I still think you are missing a golden opportunity for a grand gesture. A chance to start the healing process and make the site all the better.

As for a purge of the old-timers that makes me a bit nervous. I don't think it necessary for a night of the long knives or to set them adrift on an ice flow like the Eskimo's do with their old and infermed.

Look, the people around here are not stupid. If someone goes AWOL for a couple of days after participating in a heated exchange I think we would figure it out. It really is not our business anyway and preserving the dignity of someone should be top priority.

Please can we discuss this like adults and not be reduced to posting goofy pictures...see I am getting aggravated already.

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2006, 11:34:56 AM »
Hal -- we won't be revoking the current TOs which will expire in 6 days.

sounds good. if members are slapped with TOs one after another, they'll have no choice but to find other places to unload their sh*t for 6 days (I say make it 7 LOL) - over and over and over and over. It will get tiring for them and before you know it - DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!! -- mature behavior and helpful posts!   :D  :D Correct me if I'm wrong but helpfulness is at the core of this site,is it not?  :)

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2006, 11:42:18 AM »
Time Outs (TOs)

I don't think that TOs (alone) are effectively modifying behaviour in a select few individuals.  I think it has resulted in many people rethinking their actions, but unfortunately for that 1% it only seems to aggravate them more.   Why?  Perhaps because almost always the person getting a TO rarely thinks it was warranted.  Or they almost always believe the TO was unfairly administered (one-sided).  This just leads to a build-up of frustration.  And they quickly look for the next opportunity to unleash that frustration in the forums.

If someone receives a TO, it's probably best it's done in public.  The purpose of a TO isn't just to punish one (or many) individuals, it's also to help members understand what is and what isn't acceptable in the forums.  If everything is done in private, how will anyone know who stepped over the line and why?  Furthermore, what's done in private, rarely stays in private.  Those who are given a TO often come back to the forums to announce that they were banned. 

Cleaning House

Cleaning house wouldn't bother me much, since TOs alone aren't working, and because it seems to always be the same individuals getting a TO.  The forum has survived folks coming and going.  It may cause some issues for a couple of days, but sooner or later everything will be forgotten.  Being HIV positive doesn't mean you have an automatic right to participate in the forums.  There are plenty of places on the internet for people to unleash their personal attacks/insults on the general public.  If someone wants to spend 2 or 3 hours a day launching personal insults/attacks in the forum, then go and create a blog or start your own forum.

Peter- Make a decision.  Stand by it.  And don't look back.

Cliff

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2006, 11:53:00 AM »
Quote from: Peter Staley
Truth be told, after yesterday's melt-down in the forums, I'm leaning towards cleaning house here.  It seems to us that the same people are involved in endless flame wars that they won't let go of.  In my opinion, these forums would survive, and might even thrive, if some of these old-timers were given the boot.

Hi Peter,

In the unasked-for opinion of a relative newcomer, I've been a regular participant on another siteís forums for about six years. This past Spring, the owner had to do just what you are talking about - clean house. Once the Internet Trolls and trouble makers were removed, things settled down again for quite some time. However, since that site is for a major music artist who tours extensively and promotes her website in her shows, we once again have people joining and posting in the forums who seem headed down the same road.

I'm not sure if a web site on the Internet can ever be free of people who have nothing better to do in life than cause trouble, but one thing this artist does is give people a warning about bad behaviour in private before banning them entirely if their behaviour doesn't change.

It's a little embarrassing that grown adults should require warnings or time-outs, but more embarrassing to me is checking in here and seeing people squabbling or arguing. I cannot understand why anyone lucky enough to be living on borrowed time would waste a minute of it engaging in garbage.

The only solution I've come up with for me is to ignore any of it, and focus on the people here who can treat each other with at the very least, mutual respect.

My 2 nickels.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline chemistry001

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    • http://www.mygaydar.com/chemistry001
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2006, 12:02:55 PM »
As a new member to the site i find it distressing that there are such vicious posts, if someone out there was looking for support/help or advice and read some of the posts and threads that have been on here then I'm sure they would think this was not the place to join. I don't know what the answers are but the moderators have a job to do and without them things would surely get out of control. If that ever happened then i don't think i would really want to log on and read the personal attacks that have happened. I don't know what actions warrent a TO, but with having enough on our plates to deal with i don't think that wasting time calling people on here is beneficial to anyone, but then until it happens to you i suppose you don't know what you will do.
If someone was constantly on a TO i think they would get bored and look elsewhere to vent their anger or whatever else their problems are.
I agree that, its your site Peter and what ever you say goes, those that disagree should look for another site to log onto.
Paul xx
Diagnosed 01/08/06
CD4-9, VL->500,000, CD4% 1
Started on Sustiva/combivir 22/08/06 changed to kivexa 18/09/06
02/10/06
CD4-50, VL-1496, CD4% 5
04/12/06
CD4-112, VL-125, CD4% 7.5
22/02/07
CD4-121, VL-<50, CD4% 9
29/05/07
CD4-125, VL-71,(re-done 149), CD4% 11
25/09/07
CD4 -231, VL-74, CD4% 15
Cant remember the next few dates
17/01/08  Kaletra and Truvada
CD4 - 281, VL-115
06/03/08
CD4 - 287, VL-178

Offline Just John

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2006, 12:25:46 PM »
OK, here's my thoughts.

I don't envy the Moderators one little bit, theirs is at best a difficult and sometimes distasteful job but "somebody's godda do it".

The only problem that I have with one or two of the time outs that I've seen are that they have seemed to be biased. I will always uphold the right of someone to defend themselves, and hope that the Mod's think the same way, however, it takes two or more to start a flame war and all sides should get the same treatment.

Perhaps a private warning that any further post or reply of that ilk will result in a ban or time out should precede such action; that way the people concerned have the choice of biting their tongue and retiring, or proceeding knowing what the consequences will be.

Some people will never take any notice of authority and will carry on regardless despite the hurt and upset that they cause, hell I have an Aunt like that, in that case of course, a complete ban should be possible and must be for the good of the site and the majority of the people who use it. Be warned, however, that "cleaning house will only give a temporary respite from these people, their place will eventually be taken by somebody else, human nature decrees it and even a vetting before entry will not prevent it unfortunately.

Do the Mod's consult with each other before issuing a time out? I would like there to be some consultation between two or three of you before a time out is issued and certainly before a complete ban. I think that a ban or time out should be public which might act as a deterrent and also enable people to better judge where the line between vociferous argument stops and flaming begins, because this will obviously vary with each new circumstance this is where the private warning will be useful.

I also think that any time out or ban should be given out by "The Moderators" and not by an individual Moderator as at present, this might prevent any individual being singled out for special criticism which also seems to have happenned at times.

Lastly PM's: I think that any member who abuses the PM system to send abusive messages should be banned straight away, that isn't what they're there for.

John. :-*
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.

Offline Superman

  • Member
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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2006, 12:48:54 PM »
There's no need for TO's because there is an IGNORE button.  Name an instance of a TO needed if someone would have simply used the Ignore User button and let it go.  Granted, there would have been a post or two that would have continued to offend but then... nada.

S man


Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2006, 01:09:54 PM »
Dear All,

First of all, I am totally in support of Peter's decision to maintain the current Time Outs.

Humiliating people absolutely never entered in the equation of how the decision was taken to announce them publicly. Doing that was to draw attention to what we moderators regard as an absolutely critical situation.

Members who have been repeated warned, talked with and otherwise alerted about problematic behavior just keep going along again and again in the same destructive way.
Sometimes we've gotten acknowledgements and then they turn around and there's another vitriolic entry attempting to get in yet another "last word." And it just keeps going on and on.

What happens is that these few people end up dominating many of the conversations here. We see evidence that people who are new to the site as well as some who have been around for a longer time are not posting entries. From PMs and e mails we've each received it's clear that these exchanges scare people off or they just get tired of the fracases. People often have experienced enough of this kind of stuff in their private lives without being subjected to more of the same here.

As I see it we have given several people many, many chances. Time outs are our way of saying WAKE UP! THIS BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED. And however imperfect it is a means of doing that, I would like to keep its use as an option in the future.  

This site cannot continue to thrive in a poisonous atmosphere. This is not what has drawn all of you here. You're here for information and for support. Sure there has to be room for disagreements about different issues. But that absolutely has to be kept on a certain level of civility. Namecalling and a repeated use of gutter language just has no place here.

For most our existence this site has been a welcoming and safe place. It's why we're still around.

As far as consistency in deciding about Time Outs,  that's a worthy goal. But honestly, sometimes we moderators talk long and hard among ourselves as we weigh what an individual's situation is, their previous history and other factors.

And further, one of the things that always concerns us in terms of a regular member when have considered banning, is how that might affect the person in terms of their health and access to information. That's a tough one. But there are other websites so banning is not ruled out as a matter of final recourse.

Ultimately we have to think of the greater number of people who are subjected to the kind of abuse we've been dealing with. Even if they aren't the objects of the attacks, and all too many have been, they still are being abused by having to bear witness to these threads. And it does have the effect of keeping people from feeling free to talk here about whatever is on their minds.  

We are as fair as we can be but it's never going to be a science. And someone is always going to be resentful or feel unfairly treated. We just do our best.

Last night Tim was especially discouraged when we were having a group discussion about all of this. I told him then and I do believe this, that out of this problem I see the potential and even the likelihood for us to come through as a stronger group. Most of the people who come here do so in good faith and respond positively to the possiiblities this site offers. I'm counting on that to get us through this time.



Sincerely,
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 05:04:54 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2006, 01:12:20 PM »
What meltdown? See, tis easy, crap thread, murdered thread, dead thread, don't read it, don't post, hit the ignore button, sommat.  Like the whole AMG thing, passed me by completely.

Rules of moderation

1. You will be hated, even if respected, sooner or later
2. Be Stalin, jump on the flamebaiter quick like n without mercy (easier said than done, expect failure) for tis s/he who is really at fault.

Rules of posting

1. Be good-mannered..
2. ...or pass it up n have a spliff

Some threads are obvious tinderboxes.  Another forum I was involved in (writers no less, how many egos?) the mods issued a kinda thread caution on occasions - "This thread is a powder keg and we put everyone on notice disrespectful posts will not be tolerated".  Rudeness of any kind = account suspended for a few days. Worked.  But kinda labour intensive.  Forum was not so busy as here.

Tis of course possible to have some people's posts queued for review before release into a thread (hmm, maybe not so simple on SMF), this might be an additional arrow in the quiver.

I therefore have no useful suggestions, except to say it's a tough call, n a (Stalinist) purge is but a temporary solution. The forums are good mannered compared to most (natch, angelic even), people who thinks otherwise is perhaps paying the forum and/or particular posters too much attention. Perhaps.  Perhaps ... perhaps ...

- matt

Now playing: some K T Tunstall
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 01:39:58 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Cliff

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2006, 01:39:20 PM »
Tis of course possible to have some people's posts queued for review before release into a thread (hmm, maybe not so simple on SMF), this might be an additional arrow in the quiver.
A good suggestion.  I recently posted in an airline forum.  Members of that forum start off on probation, where all of their messages are reviewed by moderators before being posted to the forum.  After x number of messages (presumably clean) you become a regular member.  I don't think probation is necessary for new members here (cause it can be a bit of a hindrance to feeling like part of the community).  But for people who use the forum, despite repeated warnings, to spew their crap onto others or who decide to constantly go at it with their mortal AMG enemy, then perhaps a probationary membership for those individuals is warranted.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2006, 01:52:08 PM »
I think the time outs that were given were deserved.   I think the moderators were extremely GENEROUS in not giving them to more people at times (when perhaps someone deserved one).

I don't come here for ugliness and fighting.   It is detrimental to our health, but some people don't ever seem to "get" that.   

My emotions are anger, embarrassment and shame that grown people, most of whom I consider my friends, can't behave.   I know that some people think I'm a 'goody goody' who just comes here to slop sugar all over the place.  I have feelings of hurt and anger just like anyone else, but I'd like to think I have a little bit better self control when it comes to expressing them.   

To my way of thinking, a lot is said by the SILENCE (non response) of some people in "toxic" threads.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2006, 01:52:13 PM »
Occam's Razor(bill): the simplest solution is the best.  Extended to the forums: PLEASE clean house - as a relative newcomer, I find the posts of certain members  just pointless and depressing.  Even if I try to follow a certain thread, I often have no idea what people are battling about.  There's so much unspoken baggage.  Let them all form a new site: Aidsbitterness.com. 
    Also, there's one member who is of a boorishness and meanness (do I need to spell it out?) that surpasses understanding.  Sure, I've laughed at times at the satire, but not at his ad hominem attacks.  In spite of his ill health, he should be banned for good.  I'm obviously not a fan of this particularly rude comedian.  You have a great site here.  Don't torture yourselves with excess work trying to keep nasty posters alive in the forums - CLEAN HOUSE.

Razorbill (one weary auk)

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2006, 04:46:58 PM »
Hello Peter,

I believe this subject matter has probably come up before. In fact, I am sure it has. I haven't changed my views on it.

I believe the time outs are necessary. And I am also quite sure, that no one is given a time out, without good consultation by the moderators. Everytime one of these flame war threads gets started, I am turned off even further. I didn't come here to these forums back in 2003, for this. I came here for information, on how I was going to live with a new chapter of my life, starting on medication, and living with Aids. It makes it diffcult for me to come back and post, when I see these threads occurring. This is supposed to be a support forum, for those of us living with HIV/Aids, lets try to maintain that support for all these new people, and not so new people, that unfortunately are joining us here in the living with forums.

Oh yes, and I remember Dynamic David, and it was a wise choice in the termination of his membership.  What did he have 4 or 5 different aliases, and he would debate with himself within the same thread.  :P Besides the other issues...

I certainly would not like to see anyone banned either. I believe everyone of us needs these forums, in some way, shape or form.
I think some new rules will have to be added, to the "Terms of Membership". Name calling, has got to come to an end, and shouldn't be tolerated.


The Best-----Ray



Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline poet

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2006, 05:17:42 PM »
I haven't gotten around to reading the rules.  I will say, having tried to participate in some other forums/message boards, that those without a deus ex machina become impossible.  The topic gets lost in the nastiness and the nastiness has echos and choruses.  I can say, gven what I find in this area of these forums, that the ones I read stay on topic and the feeling coming out of them is having the group around a table or in your living room, not posting from across the world as strangers.  We may agree or agree to disagree: it's working.  Win
Winthrop Smith has published three collections of poetry: Ghetto: From The First Five; The Weigh-In: Collected Poems; Skin Check: New York Poems.  The last was published in December 2006.  He has a work-in-progress underway titled Starting Positions.

Offline wellington

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2006, 05:30:46 PM »
I fully support the moderators of these forums in their use of whatever means necessary to ensure that order is upheld, in fairness to all. Whatever they decide, I am certain that this community will continue to be worth well in excess of its price of admission.

I am not fond of the notion of dropping people permanently because they may be socially challenged. However, there comes a point when the bile they spew, especially when it is personally directed, does far more harm than good. Such mean spirited attempts to communicate - moreover, lash out - serve little purpose in supporting one another or in bettering this community.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2006, 06:45:58 PM »
    I think banning should only be considered in extreme circumstances. 

        I believe one of those two that were banned from the past, made racists comments or something and did so repeatedly.   I think scenarios such as those definitely constituted banning.   But how do you justify banning someone because they can't get along with someone else?   You only cause bad feelings with those who are banned and the ones that care for them.  This essentially just leads to even more heated wars if you ask me.

         People have thrown out, "Hey why not just put them on ignore?" which of course is said repeatedly to no avail..   Hell even I am guilty of not using the ignore feature.

        Which leads me to my question...  If we have the ignore feature can't the moderators over ride it and make it to where   members cannot see each others post?  Can you imagine?  Start off with 7 days, then go to 30 days... til finally I...  I mean they can't see anyone... well at least those they do not get along with..  May seem childish, I don't know..  just an idea.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 06:47:48 PM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Grinch

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2006, 07:39:49 PM »
   I personally hope some type of change occurs here. I have literally no place to turn and discuss anything HIV related.
I'm heterosexual, I live in a very small town.  The nearest ASO is over 60 miles away. AIDSmeds is it.  The only place I have to turn to.

  As I stated in another thread some time ago, unless one is in the "cool kids" group you may not have an opinion that goes against the accepted group opinion on any give subject. The vocal minority can and does shout down and belittle anyone that fails to conform to their way of thinking.

  That group does police these boards and they do tend to keep the asshats from taking over, unfortunately they do not police themselves very well.

Regarding TO's.  I detest the term, but as a moderator of two forums,  I find them to be quite effective.  I typically PM an offender, followed by a public warning.  My next step is to lock the thread. Anyone continuing the argument in another thread gets a TO.  Occasionally a perma-ban is given based on circumstance.

  I don't think anyone wants this forum to turn into some kind of touchy feely lets all get along kind of site.  I do believe people would like to feel free to voice their thoughts on any given subject with out getting flamed. 

Offline anniebc

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2006, 09:56:24 PM »
Dear Hal

First of all thank you for staring this thread because I agree there are things that have to and need to be disccused...but when I read words like "old timers'.."booted out" and "clean house" banded about that just makes me angry...when I get passed being angry I hope I can come back and give some input into your disccusion...until then I'm putting myself on time out regarding this thread, but for what it's worth, I think it is a great thread and hopefully some good will come of it.

Thanks Hal.

Hugs
Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline RAB

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2006, 10:05:32 PM »
Dear Hal

First of all thank you for staring this thread because I agree there are things that have to and need to be disccused...but when I read words like "old timers'.."booted out" and "clean house" banded about that just makes me angry...when I get passed being angry I hope I can come back and give some input into your disccusion...until then I'm putting myself on time out regarding this thread, but for what it's worth, I think it is a great thread and hopefully some good will come of it.

Thanks Hal.

Hugs
Jan

Ditto

RAB

Offline Eldon

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2006, 10:23:40 PM »
Hello Everyone, hang on a second...

We all are trying to understand the cause of this negativity which is being expressed through some of the memberís anger on the forum. Has anyone taken the time out to find out why they are upset? There is a reason behind their actions and nine times out of ten they need to have someone to listen to them and understand what they are saying.

The key to breaking this cycle is to establish a mutual understanding. By finding a common ground, we can resolve the conflict and begin to build effective communication, step by step. Sometimes, however, members can allow their anger to cloud their judgment and negatively impact their behaviors.

All of us have been on the receiving end of someone else's anger at one time or another.

Through those miserable negative experiences, we have all learned one important thing: joining them in their anger and firing back verbal assaults DOES NOT resolve the problem. In fact, in many cases it has actually made the situation worse. 99.99% of the time the statement from the other member was misunderstood by the reader.

Understand that our negative thoughts create their anxiety, fear and often lead to depression.

Understand that negative thinking is a bad habit - and addiction.

Understand that a member cannot have a feeling without a thought first.

Understand that every thought carries it's own chemistry. We feel what we think.

Understand that there is a need to listen in to their anxious and depressive thoughts

Understand that there is a need to stop with the old automatic responses and switch to a new language that is less scary and/or depressing.

Understand that depression is fed by distorted, negative thinking.

Understand that there is a need to begin to replace negative, depressive thoughts and replace them with compassionate, respectful, comforting thoughts.

Understand that the brain does not know the difference between an imagined scenario and a real happening. It responds as if the imagined is real.

Understand that there is a need to change our current "view". (put it in perspective)

There is a way for this to be addressed. The members of the forums are different people with different backgrounds and different perspectives. It is all about understanding. There are many who do not know how to handle a certain response from another member.

Because they do not know or understand where the other member is coming from, then this is where they respond back in defense rather than listening to what the other member is saying and accepting it.

When the member makes their comment out of uncertainty, it usually leads to a huge misunderstanding where the other member will get frustrated because the other member is not listening to them with what they have to say. The other member reads what they want to read instead of itís actual content.

Suggestions for the Moderators

True enough the Moderators should step in and pull that particular member aside in order to gain an understanding of the other memberís feelings and to make the appropriate suggestion to them in order to defuse their anger/frustration. Personal attacks on a member should not be tolerated.

When the Moderators are communicating with someone who is angry it is one of the most difficult challenges anyone can face. Being on the receiving end of their heightened emotions is stressful. The challenge of someone shouting at them or making unfair demands, forces them to respond as a disciplined, controlled and effective communicator.

When faced with a situation where an angry and demanding individual has a list of complaints, the Moderators need to communicate both an understanding of their grievances and a willingness to collaborate to address them.

After the moderators make that initial step of pulling the offender to the side, if the problem persists with the offender then a time-out should be implemented to them with a follow-up reason as to why they are receiving this action.

There should be levels conducted such as a 5 day, 10 day, 30 day time-out. After talking to the member, giving them a time-out, if that does not resolve the issue then further action should be taken as far as banning the member from the site.

I disagree that the "older" members of this site should be a part of the "clean house". the older members are full of experience with HIV/AIDS and they DO make wise recommendations with their opinions.

Remembering that anger is essentially fear turned inside out, you must let them express it all before you can move to a more rational platform of cooperation.

Lastly, each and every one of us are here to support one another and to learn from one another. We are all in this together.

Make the BEST of each and every Day!

P.S. --- Jan & RAB hang in there.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:04:54 PM by Eldon »

Offline allanq

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2006, 10:30:56 PM »
At any given time, most of the nastiness on this forum is confined to just one or two threads. However, these threads generate a great deal of interest (as measured by the number of views). This gives the appearance that vile, unciivilized behavior is rampant on the forum. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate that the overwhelming percentage of threads are respectful, informative and supportive.

I favor a strong moderator presence on this forum to keep disruptive and mean behavior to a minimum. I subscribe to the PozHealth Yahoo Group, which is moderated with a firm hand by Nelson Vergel. There are often disagreements on the PozHealth forum, but they are always expressed in a respectful manner. Personal attacks are simply not allowed and are screened out before they ever get published. I have never encountered a single flame war on that forum since I joined several years ago. It's a nice place to visit.

The moderators of this forum are good, decent, and insightful people. My only complaint is that they have been far too lenient in tolerating abusive behavior. I'm in favor of a two-strike rule: two abusive posts and you're out. I define an abusive post as one that is a personal attack on another forum member.

Allan
Top (Breakfast): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress, Zoloft (2), Glyburide (2), Aspirin
Bottom right (Dinner): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress
Bottom left (Bedtime): Sustiva, Trazodone (2), Lipitor, Septra (no longer taking this)
Center: Alprazolam (Xanax)
Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline cubbybear

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2006, 10:35:51 PM »
Dear Hal

First of all thank you for staring this thread because I agree there are things that have to and need to be disccused...but when I read words like "old timers'.."booted out" and "clean house" banded about that just makes me angry...when I get passed being angry I hope I can come back and give some input into your disccusion...until then I'm putting myself on time out regarding this thread, but for what it's worth, I think it is a great thread and hopefully some good will come of it.

Thanks Hal.

Hugs
Jan

I'm with Jan here.  I've been coming here less and less because of the direction things are headed.
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline OzPaul

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2006, 10:39:40 PM »
While I'm in agreement with Jan I think Allan is on to the right point.

It shouldn't matter how long you've been here, rather the behaviour. Name calling, flame baiting and inciting language should not be tolerated. Simple.

So, for those few people who can't or don't want to lift their game they should be given another place to play their childish games, not here. We all deserve better than cruel and inhumane treatment of others, really.

Paul
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 11:47:07 PM by OzPaul »

Offline ademas

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2006, 10:52:39 PM »
I'm with Jan, Rab, Cubbybear, Doxie, and those who don't care to see a heavy-handed approach...particularly people getting the boot.

Heavily-moderated forums create a whole new set of problems that seem to be just as difficult to address as the original set.

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2006, 12:17:58 AM »
I'm pretty much new to this site. Like someone else said, I use this site as means of support because there is no one or no where else that I can get support from. What makes me enjoy this site is seeing the different opinions whether they're accepted or not, the support given when someone needs to vent, and especially when someone is ill, how everyone comes together to give their well wishes, it really warms my heart.

 I do believe that a person should be able to voice their opinions. What I don't understand is why people get upset on how a person does this? If a person chooses not to sugar coat how they want to say something that is their choice. Some people are just blunt and others do it to get a rise out of people. And others may do it because they don't have the knowledge of those big words that often get flung around here.

I know in order for things to run smoothly, there must be rules. I just feel that if there is going to be timeouts then they should be given out fairly, no favoritism. I don't know who started what nor is it my place to point the finger at anyone. It should not matter if the person was here from day 1 or just signed up last week, if the rules are being broken then you must be punished accordingly. I do not envy The Moderators because most of the time they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Many have spoken about the ignore button, well if it was being used then there would probably be half the problems. But some just has to see what the other person has to say to their response instead of leaving it alone. Or try to have the last word and if that is the case, who are they trying to impress? If you are strong in your beliefs, you don't need anyone to validate it for you. But hey that's just me. :(
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

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Offline fearless

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2006, 02:59:15 AM »
I agree with Hal, that timeouts should be done privately.
I like Matt's idea of a warning post in threads, early on, put everyone on notice. You could have a simple standard warning post to save time.
And, I think Eldon was spot on. Spot on.

Little Steve
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline carousel

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2006, 05:21:30 AM »

.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 10:55:06 AM by carousel »

Offline Poz Brit

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2006, 06:56:57 AM »
For a great number of years I ran Public Houses,( bars, pubs), and have seen far to many vile mouthed vicious bullies, on throwing them out, they come back a few days later, all sweetness, apologetic and an excuse of some kind that is supposed to justify there behaviour. The odd occasions I have let them back was always to my detriment, as after a short while, their bad behaviour returned. I am all in favour of banning these types of individual who can not and will not abide by the rules. Without them it makes a better enviroment for those that will.

John(UK) 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 08:35:00 AM by Poz Brit »

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2006, 09:05:43 AM »
First of all thank you for staring this thread because I agree there are things that have to and need to be discussed...but when I read words like "old timers'.."booted out" and "clean house" banded about that just makes me angry...when I get passed being angry I hope I can come back and give some input into your discussion...until then I'm putting myself on time out regarding this thread, but for what it's worth, I think it is a great thread and hopefully some good will come of it.

Jan -- maybe I should clarify my poor choice of words.  I didn't mean to imply that all "old timers" should be given the boot -- not at all.  There are just a handful of members who have repeatedly engaged in flame wars with eachother, and it just so happens that all of them have been in the forums a long time.  I didn't mean to imply that our long-term members, just by the length of their membership, are at risk of being banned.

Again, I'm only talking about a very small group of folks who have continually ignored our pleas for civility.  It is my humble opinion that these forums would survive just fine without them.  Sure, each of them has friends in these forums who would miss them, and complain loudly about their being banned, but that wouldn't prevent them from using email and IM and Skype and other forums (thebody.com) to continue their friendships.  What it would do is bring some civility to these forums, and send a very clear message that NO ONE is above the rules of these forums, no matter how long they've been here, or how many "friends" they have here.

Believe it or not, while it is important to me that the opinions and feelings of our members are listened to and respected, it is equally important to me that our moderators aren't treated like shit.  Many of you have no idea of how much work our moderators do to make these forums what they are.  I have no patience for members who disrespect their work.  I consider it an essential part of my job to protect the integrity of my co-moderators, and also to ensure that their job doesn't become overly burdensome.  Any system we consider for TOs and bannings must not place unreasonable demands on the moderators' work loads.  If one member of the forums persistently taxes the work load of my staff (both paid & volunteer), then at some point I will reluctantly have to risk some short-term grief by permanently banning that member, even if they're an "old timer" -- even if they've got lots of friends in the forums -- even if they're one of our bloggers (at least 2 of whom have been given TOs).

So for those of you who are reeling because you hate the heavy hand of our forums moderation scheme, blame me, not my co-moderators.  Bottom line -- these are, hands down, the best forums on the Internet for people living with HIV.  Why?  Because of our members, first and foremost.  AND, because these forums are heavily moderated (unlike almost all other HIV forums).  You have only to look at these other forums to see what kind of chaos we'd have here if it weren't for our strong moderation policies.

Okay, I've vented enough.  This is a great thread thus far, and I'm definitely listening closely to the suggestions made here to improve our current TO and banning system.  The current system isn't detailed enough, and because of that, it's been used inconsistently.  I apologize to everyone for that.  But I promise we'll do better in the future.  After everyone has their say in this thread (including those who will return to these forums after their current TOs), then we'll announce a new (and hopefully improved) policy.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2006, 10:26:37 AM »
 8) Good extreme list Charles (racism, homophobia and threatening behaviour)

and, of course as always, denialists *must* be banned faster than the speed of light
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 10:32:52 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline gerry

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2006, 01:29:13 PM »
I think the forums already have the tools to enforce civility.  Like Hal said, the devil is in the details.  Unfortunately, judgments like these will never be 100% objective.  For instance, some flame-baits are more skilfully masked than others.  Having said that, there must be some absolutes such as:

1. Asserting moderator authority in enforcing the rules, and establishing a mechanism for oversight (such as if the mods don't agree on whether or not to lock a thread or issue a TO or how to handle a volatile situation, or if one of the mods himself/herself gets entangled in the mess, then the top person would have to break the impasse and make a decision and chime in as such). 

2. Creating a set of clear-cut list of behaviors/activities that would warrant a permanent ban.

With respect to specific suggestions, I would be in favor of changing the duration of the current "TOs" to something like one or two public warnings (specifying the behavior that is unacceptable), then a 7-day TO, then a 30-day TO, then a permanent ban.  I don't think a 2-day ban serves any meaningful purpose at all that cannot be accomplished by locking the thread and issuing a warning not to perpetrate the behavior by starting a new thread in the same vein.

Speaking of locking threads, using this earlier might avert some of the flame-wars.  I realize that mods do not have the luxury of policing the forums and communicating with each other in real time all the time.  But even just locking a thread temporarily when tempers start to flare up might help until the mods have a chance to discuss the ramifications of keeping it locked or reopening it.

For those threads that really degenerate very quickly before anyone could do anything about it, if you want to do a "clean-up," perhaps creating a public "trash bin" or "background noise" forums to move those threads away from the main ones might be useful.  It would also serve a useful tool to refer back to in case you need to make decisions on whether to issue a ban on someone.  You can always return the thread back to it's original forum once it gets old and it will automatically get burried with it's chronologic posting order.

I'd hate to see this forums become bland; the diversity of the members is one of its strengths.  However, it will not survive in anarchy, either.

Offline LatinAlexander

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2006, 10:05:42 PM »
I am confused. I mean, sometimes, we all have HIV days...I thank God that this site exists. I would have sinked mannnyy tiime on this new thing that life throws at me called HIV. In this place, I have vented my feelings: Loneliness, sadness, rage, hope, smiles. If I wouldn't have had this space, I do not know what would have I done. Possibly even commit suicide.

What happens if one day, we all face this terrible moment (which we all know could and very probably WILL come at sometime), when we are facing death and unbearable suffering? Do not we have the right to tell the world, even dominated by fear, panic, rage , whatever, FUCK, I AM FUCKED UP.

This place has been a support point. Yes, I know we cannot go all over the world kicking butts. But I cannot help of thinking of those who, even when they would never recognize it, are being all covered by fear, pain, and loneliness. I would not ban, unless extreme cases. I would try to do something like restricting how many times per day can post, or something like that.

What will happen when my time comes?. How much will I suffer when it comes? Will I be able to say how miserable will I feel?. I think we all (even when we are not an easy-to-talk-to person) have the right to talk about our feelings. Specially if perhaps, those are the last ones.

I also believe in rules. We need them to be able to go on. But i feel compasionate as well. This place is to support each other. I think that includes even when you are dying.

For instance, I would suggest something like a private warning, then a warning to the thread ( a color or something), then blocking the thread, and if the transgressor continues  attacking, then a partial lock. Now if the person is crazy, then OT, and if doesn't get it, then permanent ban.

My humble comments.

Alex
Poz since Jul 19 2006
Initial numbers : CD4-250 VL 3500
First labs after HAART (Dec 04-2006) : CD4-432 VL-<40 (Undetectable)  cd4%=25.11%
Started HAART: Combivir+Efavirenz Aug 26 7:38 pm
Feb 08 2007 - Gradually stopping HAART cause of Myalgia. Protecting Efavirenz. Stopped Efavirenz, ahead with Combivir....
February 17 Combivir stopped.
April 3 -07 : Started ddi+3tc+efavirenz...
Gay and positive (What a lack of Identity...:) )
Looking for my Ben....

Offline Life

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2006, 10:08:23 PM »
(((HUGS)))  Alex....


Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2006, 10:12:05 PM »
I also believe in rules. We need them to be able to go on. But i feel compasionate as well. This place is to support each other.

bravo, alex, bravo!!  :-*

Offline Lisa

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2006, 01:27:17 PM »
I have been doing a lot of reading, both in this thread, and in the thread started by Alex. I think I need to digest everything and give a couple of days' consideration to this whole subject.
We all need to think very carefully about what checks and balances we want in place for governance.
I also understand that Peter, Tim, Andy, and Ann do not want to have to exclude anyone from the site.
 * Could one of you place this thread as a sticky for a bit so it doesn't get buried while people are mulling over these ideas? *
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2006, 01:31:08 PM »
done

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2006, 06:33:58 AM »
I've been reading some of the well considered comments.  I want to reiterate my opinion that this site IS for support and compassion.  Inviting flame-throwers to leave is not about lack of compassion.  This site will always be for people who are having a bad day, month, year, life...  People who want to vent over jobs, health care, families or the site itself.  And we all want to listen and help.  I feel this discussion is about a narrow segment of flame-throwers and cutthroats who do not add to the "family atmosphere" of the site.  Criticism of ideas, actions, decisions and beliefs is OK.  Attacks on people are not.  Stay focused on the problem at hand and lets not wander too far off the challenge before us.  It's painful, but limited.

Offline Razorbill

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2006, 06:36:10 AM »
Oh BTW, go out and vote.  OK? Thanks.   ;D

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2006, 12:58:15 PM »
If people can't behave like adults then fair enough ban them.  I don't agree with the three strikes and out option though I think each person should be judged individually some people may deserve more chances than others.  There's been plenty of cases on here where people clearly aren't thinking straight at the time.  I've also got to say I don't think a 2 day ban achieves anything I think the minimum ban should be 4 to 5 days gives them more time to think things over.
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline greatcyber

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Re: Your Thoughts On Time Outs?
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2006, 06:03:16 PM »
First of all, Time Outs are something that is metted out to children, not adults.  Since you have seen fit to issue these childish things and by giving Joe a TO for 7 days for a first offence is reprehensible.  I choose to give myself A PERMANENT TIMEOUT from your websites.

Since the merge, it seems as though the corporate mentality has set in and I suppose that the fact that Joe has helped so many (too many to mention) count for little.  If something is a little offensive to some, they couldn't possibly just scroll down past, they have to have a tantrum, again, childish.

Joe and I gave a 20 minute interview to CBC Television on behalf of AIDSMeds.com while in Montreal.  Our opinion of the website has changed considerable since then.

In a country where we have so few rights as it is, to be censored for merely putting honest thoughts to electronic media is just a little bit more than we can chew.  It is one of the VERY BIG reasons that we are leaving this country permanently as soon as we can sell our home.

I understand that you are sitting in New York enjoying your six-figure salary while most on this site are eking out a living on social security or some form of disability.  To not realize that is is the "old timers" that have turned this site into the success that it has become seems to be a loss not only for the old-timers, but to the "newbies" who could have learned so much from the wisdom we have to impart.

No longer will we discuss this website in a positive light, only cite examples of just how we were treated.  Now we will turn to the national advocate arena where we can market to the national media and let them know of our plight and how HIV positive citizens are considered even worse than "gay" citizens.  Perish the thought! 

Not enough people that matter understand the truth as it exists for those of us on the other side of the needle or pill, or whatever indignity we happen to be subjected to at the moment.

I will probably continue to read some of your blogs, as they mostly come from a true place in an individuals existence, unless it's just a rant.  But sometimes, that is exactly what you need to do.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

No one need respond directly to my post as it will never be read by any user of this computer.

Over and out.
Perform a Random Act of Kindness Today...

...You Just May Be In Need of One Tomorrow!

 


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