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Author Topic: IT JUST AMAZES ME...  (Read 3447 times)

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Offline Bizkits

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  • Posts: 105
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2014, 11:03:42 AM »
And to be clear I am not judging someone BECAUSE they are poz, I just don't think people in the medical field should be allowed to continue their profession if they are poz. I just don';t think it's a safe practice...for me or anyone else...poz or neg.

Let me be clear when I tell you that I'm sure someone in the medical field that has touched you, cared for you, talked to you, comforted you, treated you has been hiv+. Just as it's you're right to stay silent for 25 years and not disclose to anyone, we have that same right. It is something we also live with every day and poses no danger to any one of our patients. There are worse germs out there than a controlled hiv infection and far "dirtier people". 

Not that I wish upon you any sickness or harm, but I hope there comes a time when you encounter the best medical care ever and fall in love with the person treating you...only to find out later they're just like you.

Online Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2014, 11:41:18 AM »
Bizkits,

Yes lets' be civil shall we?  I am not bitter or hateful.  Nor am I pissed at the idiot who gave me this.  Wouldn't do me any good as he was already dead once I found out.  I do not use my status as a crutch by any means.  Here's something for you to consider...I have been silent about my status for the entire 25 yrs except when I would get serious with someone I was dating. My own child didn't even know until 4 yrs ago.  I didn't want to upset him by letting him know.  But for the most part no one knows my deal and I like to keep it that way.  I have recently reached a point in my life where I'm sick and tired of the silence and found these forums which I never knew existed until last couple weeks.  I have found an outlet for all this crap that has been pent up inside me for years and I find it helpful to be able to vent.  My intention isn't to upset anyone.  If you go and look over in the women's forum you'll see my first post (Thinking about a change).  I have been so uninformed about so many things all this time and I am now considering being open to dating someone poz.  That's a HUGE step for me. So before you label me as being critical and ignorant realize that's I've had literally NO ONE to talk to about this...ever.

And to be clear I am not judging someone BECAUSE they are poz, I just don't think people in the medical field should be allowed to continue their profession if they are poz. I just don';t think it's a safe practice...for me or anyone else...poz or neg.

This forum is dedicated to fighting stigma and giving people living with HIV a hand up so its not at all surprising or inappropriate that you have been confronted on your unfortunate views on this subject . We do not let discussions become personal attacks and strive to keep it civil but if you want to put this kind of stigma out there in this forum people are going to speak up .

If you are no longer comfortable discussing this topic then I suggest you move on to other areas of the forum to find greener pastures . I really cant see this thread turning out well in the end so I ask everyone to keep a level head if this is to be discussed further . Its been civil so far so lets keep it that way .

Offline Joe K

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  • Posts: 3,771
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2014, 12:20:18 PM »
And to be clear I am not judging someone BECAUSE they are poz, I just don't think people in the medical field should be allowed to continue their profession if they are poz. I just don';t think it's a safe practice...for me or anyone else...poz or neg.

Based on your above statement you ARE judging someone who is poz and you think that they should not be in the medical profession ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE POZ, and for no other reason whatsoever.  This attitude is what I would call "unbridled hatred" of someone, simply because they are poz.  A poz medical professional poses no risk to anyone and I would like to understand why you think they do present a risk?  And better yet, why they should be barred from their profession, for simply being poz.

Joe

Offline wolfter

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  • Posts: 4,622
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2014, 12:33:11 PM »
Most of us LTS remember when people thought it best for HIV+ to not work in the medical field, restaurant industry, education  and so many other positions.  Hell, many felt we shouldn't even live within their communities.  Many actually had their homes burnt to the ground to force them out!

But hey, perhaps we'll eventually get that long awaited isolated island that many actually debated the merits of way back yonder. 

Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline AusShep

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  • Posts: 214
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 12:56:54 PM »
Most of us LTS remember when people thought it best for HIV+ to not work in the medical field, restaurant industry, education  and so many other positions.  Hell, many felt we shouldn't even live within their communities.  Many actually had their homes burnt to the ground to force them out!

But hey, perhaps we'll eventually get that long awaited isolated island that many actually debated the merits of way back yonder.

Unfortunately, it's still around to some extent.  Blood borne viruses are an issue in many areas for dentists, since they use pointy things in patients mouths and can't always visualize their fingers, was reading on another board about pharmacists who could not work in compounding jobs because they may, you know, accidentally stick themselves with a syringe then inject their blood into someone's IV solution, etc..

At least it's better.  I remember visiting my first friend with PCP in the hospital in 90 or 91.  They had hazmat signs on his door, practically wore bunny suits and face shields to go in his room.  It pissed me off.  They probably burned his linens.

Offline deprivedlol

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  • Posts: 41
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 01:26:26 PM »
Based on your above statement you ARE judging someone who is poz and you think that they should not be in the medical profession ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE POZ, and for no other reason whatsoever.  This attitude is what I would call "unbridled hatred" of someone, simply because they are poz.  A poz medical professional poses no risk to anyone and I would like to understand why you think they do present a risk?  And better yet, why they should be barred from their profession, for simply being poz.

Joe

For the record this will be my last post.  Was much quieter in the bubble I lived in before I found this forum.

There is no hatred. Why would I hate someone who's in the same situation as me?  Hell I don't even hate the guy who gave it to me.  My concern is for my health only.  Accidents happen.  I don't like the idea of someone else giving me more to deal with than I already have to.  I got it because of my own ignorance and carelessness.  I'll be damned if I'm going to put myself in a position like that again on purpose.

That's it.  There's nothing else to it.  No hidden meaning.  No hatred.  No judging.  Just worried about myself.

Online Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 01:32:16 PM »
Twenty five years is a long time to carry that burden and internalized stigma all alone so its my hope you stick around and and open yours eyes and mind to the possibility of a healthier way to see yourself and other people living with HIV .

Offline Joe K

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  • Posts: 3,771
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 01:50:46 PM »
For the record this will be my last post.  Was much quieter in the bubble I lived in before I found this forum.

There is no hatred. Why would I hate someone who's in the same situation as me?  Hell I don't even hate the guy who gave it to me.  My concern is for my health only.  Accidents happen.  I don't like the idea of someone else giving me more to deal with than I already have to.  I got it because of my own ignorance and carelessness.  I'll be damned if I'm going to put myself in a position like that again on purpose.

That's it.  There's nothing else to it.  No hidden meaning.  No hatred.  No judging.  Just worried about myself.

I also hope that you will stick around, because your perspective is hurting you, even if you do not see it.  There is nothing wrong with being poz and you are deluding yourself when you claim that you have no hatred, nor judge others for being just like you.  There is so much more to life, than living in fear.  I hope that someday you will come to realize that being poz presents no risk to anyone else, outside of sexual involvement.

Claiming to worrying about only yourself has become your shield, one that obscures your ability to see that we are all much more than the virus we carry.  Yourself included.

Joe

Online zach

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  • Posts: 1,555
  • not fade away
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 02:09:08 PM »
For the record this will be my last post.

oh now, don't do all that! you got checked, everythings ok. come back anytime you're ready. the door is open.
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline pittman

  • Member
  • Posts: 226
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2014, 07:47:41 PM »
For the record this will be my last post.  Was much quieter in the bubble I lived in before I found this forum.

There is no hatred. Why would I hate someone who's in the same situation as me?  Hell I don't even hate the guy who gave it to me.  My concern is for my health only.  Accidents happen.  I don't like the idea of someone else giving me more to deal with than I already have to.  I got it because of my own ignorance and carelessness.  I'll be damned if I'm going to put myself in a position like that again on purpose.

That's it.  There's nothing else to it.  No hidden meaning.  No hatred.  No judging.  Just worried about myself.

So you have a lot of anxiety around your health.  I think that can be recognized and respected as your feelings, fears and emotion.  We all process things differently, and it is what it is, even if unfounded.

What you probably have not fully accepted is that how you have chosen to express that anxiety cannot be respected. It is not based on any science or reasonable assessment of risk. It is just pure emotion and fear driving it.  And while you may wish you had the right to avoid HIV+ healthcare workers, legally you do not actually hold that right, in most instances.  You simply don't have the right to even know if they are HIV+, so you will not have the ability to avoid them unless they voluntarily disclose.

You have not even explained exactly what you fear that you risk from a HIV+ healthcare provider. That somehow you will go from HIV+ to HIV++?

I hope that if nothing else, you continue to read the forums and the site. Retreating to a bubble is not good for anyone's personal growth and comfort zones need to be left behind sometimes.  The support you can gain here or by intersection with others that have shared some of what you have can really outweigh the discomfort of being challenged for what you say.  25 years is a long time to carry all this around without an outlet to talk or listen.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 07:50:21 PM by pittman »

Offline deprivedlol

  • Member
  • Posts: 41
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2014, 08:53:07 AM »
So you have a lot of anxiety around your health.  I think that can be recognized and respected as your feelings, fears and emotion.  We all process things differently, and it is what it is, even if unfounded.

What you probably have not fully accepted is that how you have chosen to express that anxiety cannot be respected. It is not based on any science or reasonable assessment of risk. It is just pure emotion and fear driving it.  And while you may wish you had the right to avoid HIV+ healthcare workers, legally you do not actually hold that right, in most instances.  You simply don't have the right to even know if they are HIV+, so you will not have the ability to avoid them unless they voluntarily disclose.

You have not even explained exactly what you fear that you risk from a HIV+ healthcare provider. That somehow you will go from HIV+ to HIV++?

I hope that if nothing else, you continue to read the forums and the site. Retreating to a bubble is not good for anyone's personal growth and comfort zones need to be left behind sometimes.  The support you can gain here or by intersection with others that have shared some of what you have can really outweigh the discomfort of being challenged for what you say.  25 years is a long time to carry all this around without an outlet to talk or listen.

Yes I do have lots of anxiety and yes it is all driven by fear.  Have tried to address it several times.  Just easier to have myself a panic attack and move on. Luckily I'm back to work and don't have time to think about anything but what's going on at work for 8 hrs a day. And yes it stinks not having an outlet until now...which I think is over.  My health is excellent despite my status and my high level of anxiety, which blows my mind sometimes. I think I'm finished expressing my opinion.  Just not productive to keep defending myself when nobody understands what's going on inside my twisted mind. I may keep reading but I think I'll zip it from now on.  Thanks for not 'attacking' me. Have a great day.

Offline Jmarksto

  • Member
  • Posts: 513
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2014, 10:56:45 AM »
Deprived;

Those 25 years of dealing with HIV anxiety, alcohol abuse, etc. has created a coping mechanism of isolation.  Isolation from bacteria, isolation from other viruses,  isolation from sharing knowledge, isolation from family, and isolation from intimacy.

You have indicated that you want to open your heart to someone else -- and want to break out of that isolation.  Bringing someone else into your life will require/provide less isolation in all of those other areas (bacteria and virus exposure, knowledge, family, and intimacy).

The process of breaking down that isolation will have significant rewards, but it will also feel uncomfortable at times. When beliefs of isolation are projected onto others it hits the nerve of HIV stigma - which will be a huge hot button. While your intentions are to protect yourself, by definition limiting interactions with others effects them too. I can see where it would feel very personal for you, and perhaps at some point you can see it from the other person's shoes.

The benefit of the discussion here is that you get allot of information on stigma, the downside of the discussion is that if feels very, very personal to you.  As others come into your life, (these forums included) challenging the isolation will feel uncomfortable but will also offer deeper and more fulfilling relationships. 

Also, please recognize that you are going to get the full range of responses here -- from the compassionate, to the vehement, to the humorous, - you name it.  Take the responses that resonate at the time, respond to the ones you want, and don't let the other responses get you upset.

An open heart requires an open mind (and an open body at some point).  I hope this site can help you with your goal - it will challenge you at times but the rewards can be well worth it.

I do wish you well and hope to see you more in the future,

JM
03/15/12 Negative
06/15/12 Positive
07/11/12 CD4 790          VL 4,000
08/06/12 CD4 816/38%   VL 49,300
08/20/12 Started Complera
11/06/12 CD4   819/41% VL 38
02/11/13 CD4   935/41% VL UD
06/06/13 CD4   816/41% VL UD
10/28/13 CD4 1131/45%  VL 25
02/25/14 CD4   792/37%  VL UD
07/09/14 CD4 1004/39%   VL UD

Offline deprivedlol

  • Member
  • Posts: 41
Re: IT JUST AMAZES ME...
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2014, 11:02:06 AM »
Deprived;

Those 25 years of dealing with HIV anxiety, alcohol abuse, etc. has created a coping mechanism of isolation.  Isolation from bacteria, isolation from other viruses,  isolation from sharing knowledge, isolation from family, and isolation from intimacy.

You have indicated that you want to open your heart to someone else -- and want to break out of that isolation.  Bringing someone else into your life will require/provide less isolation in all of those other areas (bacteria and virus exposure, knowledge, family, and intimacy).

The process of breaking down that isolation will have significant rewards, but it will also feel uncomfortable at times. When beliefs of isolation are projected onto others it hits the nerve of HIV stigma - which will be a huge hot button. While your intentions are to protect yourself, by definition limiting interactions with others effects them too. I can see where it would feel very personal for you, and perhaps at some point you can see it from the other person's shoes.

The benefit of the discussion here is that you get allot of information on stigma, the downside of the discussion is that if feels very, very personal to you.  As others come into your life, (these forums included) challenging the isolation will feel uncomfortable but will also offer deeper and more fulfilling relationships. 

Also, please recognize that you are going to get the full range of responses here -- from the compassionate, to the vehement, to the humorous, - you name it.  Take the responses that resonate at the time, respond to the ones you want, and don't let the other responses get you upset.

An open heart requires an open mind (and an open body at some point).  I hope this site can help you with your goal - it will challenge you at times but the rewards can be well worth it.

I do wish you well and hope to see you more in the future,

JM

Thank you for the kind words.  I wish I could respond in more detail but I am late leaving for work at the moment.  I did 'meet' someone online  lastnight who seems to be ok w/ my status.  Yes it's uncomfortable to some extent but also kind of exciting.  My ex also moved out this morning so a lot going on here.  My head is spinning.  Have great day..More later


 


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