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Author Topic: emigration only for non +  (Read 1587 times)

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Offline lusopt

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emigration only for non +
« on: April 16, 2014, 07:41:21 PM »
Anyone has experience with emigration for Australia?´

I just found out that positive people are not able to emigrate to certain places, in my case it would be Australia.

I mean, what a hell, we are like a cancer to those countrys, im not able to pursuit my dreams or hapyness, its like we are living in jail.

what should I do? :(
15/11/06: HIV-
28/10/08: HIV +
- No Meds -
18/11/08: CD4 -650 (.......)  / -17.500 VL
01/03/09: CD4- 540 (19,6%) / - 2090 VL
17/07/09: CD4 -603 (20,1%) / - 5040 VL
27/10/09: CD4 -627 (21,5%) / - 10.896 VL
25/03/10: CD4 -609 (23,9%) / -11.602 VL
12/09/10: CD4 -555 (........) / - 55.500 VL
21/04/11: CD4 -466 (17%)   / - 50.339 VL
01/10/11: CD4 -375 (19%)   / - 73.058 VL

Started, Epzicom and Sustiva
01/02/12: CD4 -298 (23%)   / - undetectable

Online Jeff G

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 07:50:42 PM »
That is one more tough thing about HIV . It impedes our ability to move around the planet without making plans well in advance and some places we are not welcome .

We have a few Aussie members who can advise .

Online Jeff G

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10:14 PM »
I removed the duplicate thread you posted on the same subject . One thread is all you need for the same question . Thanks .

Offline lusopt

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 08:45:57 PM »
im sorry I didnt realise, it was a mistake
15/11/06: HIV-
28/10/08: HIV +
- No Meds -
18/11/08: CD4 -650 (.......)  / -17.500 VL
01/03/09: CD4- 540 (19,6%) / - 2090 VL
17/07/09: CD4 -603 (20,1%) / - 5040 VL
27/10/09: CD4 -627 (21,5%) / - 10.896 VL
25/03/10: CD4 -609 (23,9%) / -11.602 VL
12/09/10: CD4 -555 (........) / - 55.500 VL
21/04/11: CD4 -466 (17%)   / - 50.339 VL
01/10/11: CD4 -375 (19%)   / - 73.058 VL

Started, Epzicom and Sustiva
01/02/12: CD4 -298 (23%)   / - undetectable

Offline AusShep

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 08:52:17 PM »
I hope some Aussies with any info pop in for you. 
Immigration is one disadvantage to socialized medicine in this instance, they evaluate the cost.  It may help if you let them know what type of visa you'd be applying for or if you have insurance or an employer who would pay for your maintenance meds.

Offline harleymc

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 01:46:23 AM »
I'm a former officer with the Immigration Department in Australia. The ban on immigration for people with a chronic health conditions is a default that is frequently overturned on appeal. So it isn't as if you can't migrate to Australia because of HIV it's just a bit more complicated.

I'm not sure on what basis you are applying but I'd apply anyway then go through the appeals process. If you're serious about it rather than just wanting a talking point then start now.

Online mecch

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 01:55:47 AM »
I mean, what a hell, we are like a cancer to those countrys, im not able to pursuit my dreams or hapyness, its like we are living in jail.

what should I do? :(

Countries have lists of who can and can't immigrate.  Sure, banning possible immigrants because of HIV+ status sucks.  But there are cost considerations, and also old fashioned fear and prejudice.
I wanted to point out that you should keep this in perspective of the reality of the world.  Do you really think there is open and free circulation of anybody to any country in the world, based on "pursuit of happiness" of all things? Get real. US put up a wall to keep Mexicans out, because they are Mexican.   Where's the wall for Canadians? 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline friskyguy

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 02:33:53 AM »
Cost Cost Cost! When a country like Australia has one of the best health care systems on the planet of course its reasonable that they would take into consideration health care costs in any potential immigration application.

In fact I recall the US, in only the last few years, recently overturned a ban on HIV travelers/visitors to that country, and not for emigration purposes!!!!!

I have friends in Australia and recently visited. It is one of the most progressive, reasonable and tolerant countries on the planet with a huge migrant base. In fact over 26% of the population was born elsewhere compared to 13% in the USA and 21% in Canada. Give the country some slack. :-))

I understand that the cost for the latest HIV meds ranges from absolutely free to a maximum government set price of USD 30 per month.

Would love to migrate there myself....has everything, snowfields, desert, tropical rainforests, beautiful untouched beaches and coral palm fringed islands, friendly people......and no republican party crazies or bible belt wastelands and probably the biggest drawcards.....no gun massacres.
Sero converted Sept '10 / Confirmed + Dec '10
Jan '11, VL 9,500 / CD4 482 (32%)
Feb '11, VL 5,800 / CD4 680 (37%)
start Atripla
Mch '11, VL UD / CD4 700 (42%)
Jun  '11, VL UD / CD4 750 (43%)
swap to Kivexa and Efav. due to osteopenia diag. (DEXA) / kidney issues ( decline in eGFR to 77 )
start supplements - Vit D3 / Omega 3 / multivitamin / mini aspirin
Dec '11,  VL UD <20 /  CD4 670 (49%)  / CD4:CD8 = 1.4
all labs now within normal ranges
Mch '12,  VL UD / CD4 600 (51%)
Sep '12,  VL UD / CD4 810 (51%)
Mch '13   VL UD / CD4 965 (56%)
Sep '13   VL UD / CD4 (not taken)
Dec '13   VL UD / CD4 901 (35%) / CD4:CD8 = 1.1  /  eGFR > 100

Offline mustrlon

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 06:55:05 AM »
Australia may be great for certain things- not for other things. I lived there for a long time. It is far from perfect actually, and far from any other interesting place or activity on the planet. It has a better health system than America but not better than some other Euro or non-Euro countries. Take dental treatment, a single root canal or crown can cost thousands and many people are waiting to be treated for up to 2 years as they can't afford it, how horrible it would be to wait for dentist in pain for months - or you'll take a costly holiday to Thailand or India. Seeing specialists wasn't free either and it is a very expensive country overall. Good for HIV meds, all free or you pay very little. It comes down to personal preferences but the country is not for everyone- boring by Euro standards, even with the better HIV treatment options. Tolerant is not the word I'd use for Australia (Tolerant towards Muslims, Asians and refugees that escape from wars and starvation?). I know an American guy being sent back home for being HIV+ when he was on a bridging visa and going for de-facto migration (but this was 10 years ago). So my point is you are not missing out on that much, as abrupt as I may sound.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 07:21:59 AM by mustrlon »

Online Jeff G

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 08:28:55 AM »
Australia may be great for certain things- not for other things. I lived there for a long time. It is far from perfect actually, and far from any other interesting place or activity on the planet. It has a better health system than America but not better than some other Euro or non-Euro countries. Take dental treatment, a single root canal or crown can cost thousands and many people are waiting to be treated for up to 2 years as they can't afford it, how horrible it would be to wait for dentist in pain for months - or you'll take a costly holiday to Thailand or India. Seeing specialists wasn't free either and it is a very expensive country overall. Good for HIV meds, all free or you pay very little. It comes down to personal preferences but the country is not for everyone- boring by Euro standards, even with the better HIV treatment options. Tolerant is not the word I'd use for Australia (Tolerant towards Muslims, Asians and refugees that escape from wars and starvation?). I know an American guy being sent back home for being HIV+ when he was on a bridging visa and going for de-facto migration (but this was 10 years ago). So my point is you are not missing out on that much, as abrupt as I may sound.

I was in Australia on a holiday and had an emergency root canal done on New Years day ... the dentist did the first part of the root canal to get me out of pain and filled the tooth for 70 US dollars . This of course was a one off experience but I found it impressive and it sure would not have been that easy or cheap any where else I have lived . 

Offline mustrlon

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 09:14:56 AM »
I was in Australia on a holiday and had an emergency root canal done on New Years day ... the dentist did the first part of the root canal to get me out of pain and filled the tooth for 70 US dollars . This of course was a one off experience but I found it impressive and it sure would not have been that easy or cheap any where else I have lived .

I'm sure you're right.  I remember getting fillings done in Queensland to 70-80 dollars 10-12 years ago. The country has become too expensive over the last few years, you can only compare with places like Japan, Norway, London etc. (Sure the wages are higher too). Root canal treatment starts at 1500-2000 dollars and up nowadays, simple check-up fee is 100-150 and up in Sydney.

Just saying, where I live now they may not have 30-35 of all the HIV drugs but everything is free- meds, doc and tests etc. (as there aren't that many HIV+ people). Seeing specialists is very easy for anything you can think of and all free except for private hospitals (small differences depending on your insurance). You can go and see a doctor for a simple headache, prescription medications are mostly free or a small fee. Dental costs are a percentage of what I'd pay in Sydney or free if really poor (public clinics).

Each to their own of course and I respect them. Australian quality of life is undoubtedly one of the highest in the world but that doesn't make it appealing. An American that lives in American type towns or cities with a high rise type city center and suburbs around it (house after house) may find it interesting, to some of us it is dull. I am happier in historical- ancient and colorful cities/countries with variety and that are not far from the rest of the world.

Being an Aus citizen, I would not like to move back there just for more HIV drug options or a better life- no matter how tough things got for me over the last few years- with HIV biz as well and hopefully getting better only now. Just saying if you are a black American or Asian, Muslim (and I am neither) you won't generally have a  very easy life there (professional/money- which reflects on overall life) and people do seem friendly on the outside.

Offline mustrlon

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 09:58:05 AM »
Sorry, the reason I replied to this thread is I am an Australian and even though I am not in a v wealthy country now but happy here, I am kinda living with this fear in me that I may have to move back to Oz for more HIV drugs (they have 16-17 HIV meds here and what if I develop resistance to the newer drugs) and not for another reason. And some of us have this dream of moving there. Interesting world :)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:04:12 AM by mustrlon »

Online mecch

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 10:50:58 AM »
Medicine isn't free in any rich country.  In a country with socialised medicine, tax revenues are paying for medicine.
Medicine is affordable, accessible, subsidised, whatever.  All ways to describe the situation better than "free medicine".
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mustrlon

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 11:05:41 AM »
Medicine isn't free in any rich country.  In a country with socialised medicine, tax revenues are paying for medicine.
Medicine is affordable, accessible, subsidised, whatever.  All ways to describe the situation better than "free medicine".

That's right, subsidised- not free as we're paying taxes and some of these governments would probably let people die of Aids if the medicine did not prevent them from spreading HIV.  I hear the stories of positive people that go to jail being put in cells on their own, no treatment and discriminated, in some of these countries where medicine is 'free'.

Offline Raf

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2014, 03:05:31 PM »
One of my dreams, was to emigrate to usa or europe...but now, thanks to this damn virus, I'm stuck on my country forever (even if I got an american green card, I would not be able to afford the meds out there, and let's not talk about the countries with socialised medicine, I'll be directly denied the entrance) and that dream was trumped forever.
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Online mecch

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2014, 03:27:44 PM »
One of my dreams, was to emigrate to usa or europe...but now, thanks to this damn virus, I'm stuck on my country forever (even if I got an american green card, I would not be able to afford the meds out there, and let's not talk about the countries with socialised medicine, I'll be directly denied the entrance) and that dream was trumped forever.

In the USA, under the affordable care act, you can buy insurance no matter the pre-existing condition.  This insurance may to be cheap but it may be affordable, depending on your earning power. 

In Switzerland, everyone must buy insurance, and nobody can be denied no matter their health.  But Switzerland obviously doesn't have open borders letting everyone move here and start working.

There are ways to immigrate to countries based on skills needed, lotteries, marriage, humanitarian need, etc.

Having HIV should not be considered the universal grounds for rejection that you see it as.  Some countries may have outright bans, but many do not. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline harleymc

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2014, 11:17:44 PM »
mustrlon "It is far from perfect actually, and far from any other interesting place or activity on the planet."

Well things are only as interesting or uninteresting as you choose to make them. It's a very diverse country with a very ancient indigenous culture, hundreds of migrant cultures, unique flora and fauna, diverse landscapes.  Yes dull as dishwater.

Of course the regions it abuts Oceania and Asia are dull as hell too.


Offline harleymc

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2014, 11:20:14 PM »
I wonder if lusopt has started his visa application yet or whether he is still in denial about the possibility of migrating?

Offline mustrlon

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 01:44:44 AM »
One of my dreams, was to emigrate to usa or europe...but now, thanks to this damn virus, I'm stuck on my country forever (even if I got an american green card, I would not be able to afford the meds out there, and let's not talk about the countries with socialised medicine, I'll be directly denied the entrance) and that dream was trumped forever.

It is not nice to have this virus, even after almost 2 years and not getting sick much, it just feels weird overall. But I make myself believe 'everything happens for a reason, there is a balance and we will all find our own and maybe I was protected from something much much worse'. I also stopped traveling and stayed home more, perhaps this is better for me- focusing on the more important things. It is not so bad getting tests done every three months, preventing more serious problems.

I know a few countries in Europe don't deny your visa or residency application based on being HIV+ alone. Germany is one of them (but health insurance can be expensive). UK gives HIV meds even to visiting tourists to stop the virus from spreading and doubt they have the disease question anywhere on their application forms.  The problem in US would be the affordability of drugs as you say, dealing with insurance and all.

Offline EUINAU

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 04:37:47 PM »
I have migrated to Oz. Yes even Australia isn't perfect but  I'm afraid there isn't such a country. I have now lived in 4 countries on 4 continents. Each to their own. I could be happy just about anywhere and I can tell you Australia is a great country.
If you are unsure about your application, consult immigration lawyer who is experienced with medical issues. I know of someone who was successful getting working holiday visa, though I am not sure what are the rules on permanent visa.
 

Offline harleymc

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2014, 07:47:47 PM »
I'll state it again for those having comprehension issues. I am a former employee of the Australian Immigration Department I do know what I'm talking about on this issue.

Migration to Australia is possible for people living with HIV. The initial application will be refused but there is completely transparent review/ appeal processes. Many people with HIV successfully migrate to Australia.

Offline lusopt

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 10:10:03 AM »
One of my dreams, was to emigrate to usa or europe...but now, thanks to this damn virus, I'm stuck on my country forever (even if I got an american green card, I would not be able to afford the meds out there, and let's not talk about the countries with socialised medicine, I'll be directly denied the entrance) and that dream was trumped forever.

Raf that may be the reality in USA but you can always try Europe, actually im from Portugal and i know that in here and almost every country on Europe has no costs for your meds, or any other treatment related to HIV. And they dont deny your Visa. Problem is, that Europa is under a big economic crisis, and almost every country is affected. The best option i think, it would be UK or Germany, check them out.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 10:16:49 AM by lusopt »
15/11/06: HIV-
28/10/08: HIV +
- No Meds -
18/11/08: CD4 -650 (.......)  / -17.500 VL
01/03/09: CD4- 540 (19,6%) / - 2090 VL
17/07/09: CD4 -603 (20,1%) / - 5040 VL
27/10/09: CD4 -627 (21,5%) / - 10.896 VL
25/03/10: CD4 -609 (23,9%) / -11.602 VL
12/09/10: CD4 -555 (........) / - 55.500 VL
21/04/11: CD4 -466 (17%)   / - 50.339 VL
01/10/11: CD4 -375 (19%)   / - 73.058 VL

Started, Epzicom and Sustiva
01/02/12: CD4 -298 (23%)   / - undetectable

Offline lusopt

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 10:27:03 AM »
I wonder if lusopt has started his visa application yet or whether he is still in denial about the possibility of migrating?

I kinda gived up, in fact. It may work in somes cases but most probably you need to know the right person to help you out. I asked for info and help, and they emailed me shutting off any option.

I guess i really need to face this reality, and move forward, i didnt knew that in USA people were actually buying themselves theyre meds, thats scary and at least i dont need to worry with that for now.

15/11/06: HIV-
28/10/08: HIV +
- No Meds -
18/11/08: CD4 -650 (.......)  / -17.500 VL
01/03/09: CD4- 540 (19,6%) / - 2090 VL
17/07/09: CD4 -603 (20,1%) / - 5040 VL
27/10/09: CD4 -627 (21,5%) / - 10.896 VL
25/03/10: CD4 -609 (23,9%) / -11.602 VL
12/09/10: CD4 -555 (........) / - 55.500 VL
21/04/11: CD4 -466 (17%)   / - 50.339 VL
01/10/11: CD4 -375 (19%)   / - 73.058 VL

Started, Epzicom and Sustiva
01/02/12: CD4 -298 (23%)   / - undetectable

Online mecch

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 11:01:23 AM »
I kinda gived up, in fact. It may work in somes cases but most probably you need to know the right person to help you out. I asked for info and help, and they emailed me shutting off any option.

I guess i really need to face this reality, and move forward, i didnt knew that in USA people were actually buying themselves theyre meds, thats scary and at least i dont need to worry with that for now.

Where did you read something that leads you to this wrong generalisations that "in the USA people were actually buying themselves their meds" ????

In the usa people have private insurance, often through employers, they can now have insurance through state exchanges, and/or people have government insurance for low income, retired, disable, veterans, etc.  VERY FEW people all over the world in "rich countries" are rich enough to buy their medicine at developed-world prices. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online mecch

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 11:14:29 AM »
Lusopt, you are a citizen of the European Union and have free movement to work where you please within the European Union.  Or correct me.

Im not sure there is any "developed" country that is not in the EU, that can be considered a golden land of opportunity and that has a wonderful economy.  What was going to be so different in Australia? The best economies are in the developing nations.

The crisis is bad in Portugal but you are free to try other European countries, right?  I mean, is HIV+ status the reason you are blocked in Portugal...  Or is it who needs the skills you have got?  Right now I think there are really tight job markets for young people in most rich countries.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 11:19:41 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Valmont

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 07:51:36 PM »
I migrated to Canada after I descovered I was infected but HIV (I´m from UE).  By the way, I discovered it during the migration processus.  It did not put me more difficulties, but I think it is because my CD4 were high and I was not yet under meds.

For now, I´m quite surprised in regard to how the health system work here...  That means, I had a better health access in Ecuador (because of free meds and facilities to have an appoitement with a doc).  In my work, I had better facilities tan here...  Here, my doc is in Montreal, gives appointments only on the week and on the morning, you take it or you leave it...   and I have to spend 3 hours to go there,
It is very hard to do the blood check because I´m away from my hospital and because I start working before laboratories opens (and I cannot have facilities in my work to do them...).  Also, I have to get the Atripla brand that is terribly costly and there are no accesses to generic HIV treatments (my insurance is terribly bad, it would almost be better for me not to work...).  Since my last CD4/VL in Ecuador, I only could do one and the don´t give the results by Email...  So, from august 2013 before I left, I don´t know really how I am in regard to HIV and only me a doc once... 

Strange no?

In regard to latent TB (I also have), my doc is very supportive and comprensive, she is also in Montreal, but accepted to give me appointment at the very last time of the day and it.

Two weeks ago, I got a very nasty cold, but because I have not been able to find a doc who accepted new patient, I could not even stop working...

For sure, in Ecuador, we had lack of medecine sometime or reagent for some lab Works and the situation is very very weak...

Health care are not only the access to a doctor or to medecines, but all the combination of facilities to keed a good health.  In capitalist economies, where health is a service in the market, that kind of things exists...

In regard to migration, I also believe the best professionnal opportunities are in the developping world, but the "developped world" offers you other kind of things like security or education (in my point of view...)...  Australia may be a very interesting place to live where, you should try and have failth... 
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline lusopt

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Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 05:44:05 PM »
Where did you read something that leads you to this wrong generalisations that "in the USA people were actually buying themselves their meds" ????

In the usa people have private insurance, often through employers, they can now have insurance through state exchanges, and/or people have government insurance for low income, retired, disable, veterans, etc.  VERY FEW people all over the world in "rich countries" are rich enough to buy their medicine at developed-world prices.

I misunderstood, sorry. Things work diferent just that.
Im not blocked in Portugal, i know i can go anywhere in Europe, but the truth is that it wouldnt change much , Australia and Canada are te best choices for my skills and economic recognition.
15/11/06: HIV-
28/10/08: HIV +
- No Meds -
18/11/08: CD4 -650 (.......)  / -17.500 VL
01/03/09: CD4- 540 (19,6%) / - 2090 VL
17/07/09: CD4 -603 (20,1%) / - 5040 VL
27/10/09: CD4 -627 (21,5%) / - 10.896 VL
25/03/10: CD4 -609 (23,9%) / -11.602 VL
12/09/10: CD4 -555 (........) / - 55.500 VL
21/04/11: CD4 -466 (17%)   / - 50.339 VL
01/10/11: CD4 -375 (19%)   / - 73.058 VL

Started, Epzicom and Sustiva
01/02/12: CD4 -298 (23%)   / - undetectable

Offline mustrlon

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: emigration only for non +
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2014, 12:33:28 AM »
I misunderstood, sorry. Things work diferent just that.
Im not blocked in Portugal, i know i can go anywhere in Europe, but the truth is that it wouldnt change much , Australia and Canada are te best choices for my skills and economic recognition.

I am an Aussie citizen, would LOVE to have your EU passport and be 100% keen to exchange if there was such thing :) Mine gives me Australia and New Zealand - both on the other side of the world, yours gives you 20-30  exciting European countries. Not sure about your industry, but London has plenty of work opportunities despite the economic situation in Europe and UK (all the people I know got work there- much easier than Sydney or Melbourne).

 


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