Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 18, 2014, 07:51:02 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 649721
  • Total Topics: 49588
  • Online Today: 158
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"  (Read 4785 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,905
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2014, 07:08:33 AM »
meech, i hear you, but either way i find it bent logic on the part of the negative in regards to prep

scenario 1... "i want to have unprotected sex with a positive partner. therefore i'm going to take this super expensive med simply to bareback"--- ok fine, if they only take it prior to said sex acts, wouldn't that increase the risk of developing a resistance should they decide to do it again, and again (cause once you go that way, its so cool you'll do it again)? or worse, if they are ever infected and require the med, seems a horrible waste if they've already developed resistance

scenario 2... "i don't have this virus. i'm going to take this super expensive med to protect myself. instead of wearing an inexpensive condom."  i guess access to condoms in some areas is a challenge. but would people in those areas really have easier access to ARVs than a condom?

something about all this just doesn't lead from point a to point b, for me. and it does not seem the best course of action in education or prevention. it encourages high risk behavior

pep i view differently, and can really see the value of. a person has a known exposure, and the now tools to prevent infection from taking hold. but prep, i dunno, seems like playing roulette with all six rounds, only most are blanks, y'all g'head i guess

and you're right, its something that needs to be talking about, and hammered out. maybe i'm wrong headed about it. maybe there is a rationale i haven't considered or perspective i'm just not seeing
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 07:11:30 AM by zach »

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,156
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2014, 07:59:20 AM »
A person doesn't take PreP for one off situations. Hypothetically, lets say a gay dude goes in for an HIV STD screening in Atlanta and a doctor or nurse talks about the persons sex life and its established there is a fair amount of risk. PreP could be prescribed and the person would take it every day going forward, for as long as the behaviour includes risk.  Months. Years.  Not the weekend...
Yep, someone is paying for it.
Yep, there are arguments on both sides about it all.  Yep, condoms are cheaper.
But lots of people don't manage to wear condoms and are committed to having an actual sex life, on their terms and rules, and PreP is cheaper than an HIV infection for life, so..... Also, the person would not get HIV.  Cost is hardly the only consideration.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline wolfter

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,732
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2014, 09:57:14 AM »
Perhaps we can expand this thread title to include; I'd rather have any other STD or become pregnant than have HIV".  PEP and PrEP do nothing to address those issues. 

One of my dates in Chicago was dumbfounded that I insisted on safer sex since we're both UD pozzies.  Other than knowing what bar he hangs out in and that he was hot, I knew nothing else about him.  Imagine acquiring a coinfection after all this time because of the wrong messages that are voiced.

Different situations require different courses of actions. 

Perhaps that's why I was a bit flippant earlier as I couldn't exactly understand the mindset of random bareback sex since we MIGHT be able to not become positive for HIV.  I'll continue with condom use until I'm in a committed relationship or with someone I know on an intimate enough level to trust them.  Even that's no guarantee, but HEY!!!  We all like some bareback now and then.  :)
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline pittman

  • Member
  • Posts: 237
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2014, 04:56:07 PM »
Yet here is the flaw in this logic. 

Everything you state may be true in general, it is not universally true for any particular person.

Efective analysis cannot be based on a particular person anymore than anecdotal evidence proves a theorem.

Policy analysis requires comparison of things at a broader level. Of course diseases and their teatments can be compared. That is done all the time for funding.

We also adjust approaches based on resources.  I'd rather be in a first world country for living with pretty much any condition over having to manage it elsewhere. That still doesn't change the validity of the physician's comparison.

Offline vertigo

  • Member
  • Posts: 142
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2014, 06:07:50 PM »
Personally I think it's a great article.  I also think that its perfectly appropriate to compare the two diseases in the context of discussing stigma.

When the old equation HIV=AIDS=DEATH was still true, the scare campaigns were on target and quite effective.  They helped scare me into abstinence thru my high school/college years back in the late 80's - early 90's.

But what we really need today is to get people tested regularly and onto treatment.  The PARTNER study just released pretty much proves that the virus is not being spread by undetectable pozzies.  The virus is being spread by people not on meds.  How many of those suspect their status, but resist testing because they fear the stigma and prefer not to know?  I read stories like that all the time on here.  If there was less stigma, would there be more testing/treatment, hence less transmission?

The reality of HIV in 2014 is that while it remains expensive to treat, it's pretty easy to live with.  Suppressing that message helps keep people fearful of the disease, but it may have outlived its effectiveness as a prevention strategy.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 06:12:43 PM by vertigo »

Offline drewm

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,183
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2014, 06:52:30 PM »
How many of those suspect their status, but resist testing because they fear the stigma and prefer not to know?  I read stories like that all the time on here.  If there was less stigma, would there be more testing/treatment, hence less transmission?

That is essentially my story. I suspected but was afraid to get tested because I did not think I could mentally handle the results. That fear was the result of the HIV=AIDS=DEATH scare tactics. I agree with you that more people need to get tested but we still have a pretty steep hill to climb for not freaking people out.
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Online bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,456
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »
Efective analysis cannot be based on a particular person anymore than anecdotal evidence proves a theorem.

Policy analysis requires comparison of things at a broader level. Of course diseases and their teatments can be compared. That is done all the time for funding.

We also adjust approaches based on resources.  I'd rather be in a first world country for living with pretty much any condition over having to manage it elsewhere. That still doesn't change the validity of the physician's comparison.

Well -- it does, in fact change the validity, as he was talking about a person, not a cohort.  The title of the article points to it being based on why HE would want HIV over Diabetes.

I have a Masters in Public Health - don't need your lecture on policy analysis -- but thanks for playing. 

I stand by my opinion, that his opinion of which disease is "preferable" is of no use to anyone else.  His comparison works for HIM, not necessarily for others.

Personally I think it's a great article.  I also think that its perfectly appropriate to compare the two diseases in the context of discussing stigma.
Yes -- appropriate to compare, I think the message of hope for the newly infected is important -- assuming that sustained treatment is an option for them.  Not all that helpful to say one is preferable to the other.

M
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 11:06:33 PM by bocker3 »
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline pittman

  • Member
  • Posts: 237
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2014, 08:13:25 AM »
Well -- it does, in fact change the validity, as he was talking about a person, not a cohort.  The title of the article points to it being based on why HE would want HIV over Diabetes.

I have a Masters in Public Health - don't need your lecture on policy analysis -- but thanks for playing. 

I stand by my opinion, that his opinion of which disease is "preferable" is of no use to anyone else.  His comparison works for HIM, not necessarily for others.
Yes -- appropriate to compare, I think the message of hope for the newly infected is important -- assuming that sustained treatment is an option for them.  Not all that helpful to say one is preferable to the other.

M

Then our educations lead us to different conclusions as my policy background finds no issue with his discussion as he intended it.  His comparison works for him and those in similar situations, which are not insignificant numbers of those living with access to healthcare.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,156
  • red pill? or blue pill?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline deprivedlol

  • Member
  • Posts: 41
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2014, 06:51:08 PM »
lol, i cut myself chopping some veggies the other night. i sprayed the floor with simple green, wiped it up with a paper towel, and went on cooking... my father came behind me with clorox, mopped the whole damn kitchen like a super fund site. at first i was offended, then just figured whatever floats your boat, the floor is clean now
OMG I was dying laughing reading that!  I was 5 mos. pregnant when I was diagnosed and had to move back home before I had the baby because I lost my apartment.  My parents were so paranoid I had to bleach EVERY damn thing.  To this day 2 decades later I still bleach everything to death even though I'm sometimes the only one in my home.  Smells like a hospital in here but dammit it's sanitary! But I will say though that they have loosened up a bit about it.  They eat when I cook for family occasions and no one freaks out about doing my dishes. I'm the one who's neurotic...how f*cked up is that??

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,589
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2014, 06:06:56 AM »
Then our educations lead us to different conclusions as my policy background finds no issue with his discussion as he intended it.  His comparison works for him and those in similar situations, which are not insignificant numbers of those living with access to healthcare.

I agree that,s why its such a Political article and a disposable one also.
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline aaware72

  • Member
  • Posts: 226
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2014, 08:49:17 AM »
[quote author=YellowFever link=topic=53585.msg632219#msg632219 date=1397743972

In the long run, govs won't actually need to 'medicate an ever increasing number of poz folks'. Putting everyone on medication and PEP should keep the number of poz folks stable.


???????
Can you expand on this please.

I'll chime in on this.  I currently sit on the New Hampshire HIV Planning Group (HPG) advisory committee.  This basically a group that has to be in place to for the state to get Ryan White/ADAP grants money.  I recently wrote a paper on HIV as a social problem.  It predicted that gay/bisexual man who is 18 now has a 2 in 5 change of being HIV+ by the time they reach 40 and it showed that gay/bi sexual men age 13-24 account for 57% of all new HIV infections.  It was about 5-6 years ago the state, along with many other states, cut funding to outreach and other preventative measure as these things were not showing a "return on investment" The CDC and any states redistributed funds toward other programs for HIV. 

We had a discussion on this subject and basically what came out is that the state would rather just promote getting tested, know your status, and for those that test + get them on treatment.  in their eyes it is more "cost effective" 

Yes there are some older HIV medications that will be available as generic and at a much reduced cost.  So yes in the eye of the government they are not looking to prevent, but treat person with HIV
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline aaware72

  • Member
  • Posts: 226
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2014, 09:01:06 AM »


When the old equation HIV=AIDS=DEATH was still true, the scare campaigns were on target and quite effective.  They helped scare me into abstinence thru my high school/college years back in the late 80's - early 90's.  But what we really need today is to get people tested regularly and onto treatment.  The PARTNER study just released pretty much proves that the virus is not being spread by undetectable pozzies.  The virus is being spread by people not on meds.  How many of those suspect their status, but resist testing because they fear the stigma and prefer not to know?  I read stories like that all the time on here.  If there was less stigma, would there be more testing/treatment, hence less transmission?


Yes I agree with what you are saying here.  My opinion may be slightly slanted towards the LGBT community as I am member of this community.  The LGBT community needs to embrace all those in the community and stop Othering within our community.  If the LGBT community would all get behind an anti-stigma campaign as it has with marriage equity it would do a lot to reduce these stigmas.  We need to change the mindset of people and those that are strong need to speak up and advocate when they here wrong or false information.  It's going to take a strong group of HIV positive(or negative) people to stand up and talk about HIV!  The more we hide and are scared the more these stigmas will hold on and keep us down.   
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline WowThatWasLifeChanging

  • Member
  • Posts: 28
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2014, 01:10:01 AM »
" It is the fear of being ostracised that is the biggest problem for those who are newly diagnosed, not the virus itself."

As a newly dx'd, I disagree. I care WAY more about the virus and the impact to my health and life span than I do any stigma. Wtf.

None the less, I did contemplate if I rather have HIV or cancer (pple battling in my f and have died from) and really couldnt come up with an answer. I was just trying to myself feel better I guess.

I rather have a puppy too. An Akita. ;)


Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,589
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2014, 02:31:37 PM »
" It is the fear of being ostracised that is the biggest problem for those who are newly diagnosed, not the virus itself."

As a newly dx'd, I disagree. I care WAY more about the virus and the impact to my health and life span than I do any stigma. Wtf.

None the less, I did contemplate if I rather have HIV or cancer (pple battling in my f and have died from) and really couldnt come up with an answer. I was just trying to myself feel better I guess.

I rather have a puppy too. An Akita. ;)

Hello,

I think you speak for many who are diagnosed.

Now the important bit do you realize how much exercise an Akita needs to maintain good mental health , 2 hours min a day. The same as my Jack Russell, but I can scoop up Miss Miasofia and descend into the underground , try doing that with Betsy - Lu the Akita .
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,589
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: "I'd rather have HIV than Diabetes"
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2014, 02:58:22 PM »
I'll chime in on this.  I currently sit on the New Hampshire HIV Planning Group (HPG) advisory committee.  This basically a group that has to be in place to for the state to get Ryan White/ADAP grants money.  I recently wrote a paper on HIV as a social problem.  It predicted that gay/bisexual man who is 18 now has a 2 in 5 change of being HIV+ by the time they reach 40 and it showed that gay/bi sexual men age 13-24 account for 57% of all new HIV infections.  It was about 5-6 years ago the state, along with many other states, cut funding to outreach and other preventative measure as these things were not showing a "return on investment" The CDC and any states redistributed funds toward other programs for HIV. 

We had a discussion on this subject and basically what came out is that the state would rather just promote getting tested, know your status, and for those that test + get them on treatment.  in their eyes it is more "cost effective" 

Yes there are some older HIV medications that will be available as generic and at a much reduced cost.  So yes in the eye of the government they are not looking to prevent, but treat person with HIV

Well lucky ole drug companies and Hospitals.

I find the above facts profoundly depressing , but am not surprised , I cannot see History judging these decisions well , in fact they are in my view madly optimistic , a feature off the HIV virus is its ability to mutate , and I do not think it is doom mongering to want to see a human beings life time,s worth off statistics before claims are made for anything up to today.
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.