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Author Topic: Epidemic within an Epidemic-HIV and it's Treatment Causes Premature Aging  (Read 1917 times)

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Offline Mishma

  • Member
  • Posts: 190
    • Marquis de Vauban
Forget the "live long and prosper," nostrums from those ill informed physicians, scientists, politicians and websites. HIV, for many us now, and many you newly infected, is far from a "manageable" disease. The disease and it's treatment are irrefutably aging a number of us prematurely with often dire consequences. If you don't believe me check out the long term survivors blog on this site and read what we've been going through. So much for "normal" lifespans for many of us, baring improvements in treatment and or a cure. 




http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/820508?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=177528CX

Laboratory Investigation
Aging and HIV/AIDS: Pathogenetic Role of Therapeutic Side Effects
Rebecca A Torres, William Lewis Disclosures
Lab Invest. 2014;94(2):120-128.

Abstract

The intersection of aging and HIV/AIDS is a looming 'epidemic within an epidemic.' This paper reviews how HIV/AIDS and its therapy cause premature aging or contribute mechanistically to HIV-associated non-AIDS illnesses (HANA). Survival with HIV/AIDS has markedly improved by therapy combinations containing nucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitors (NRTIs), non-nucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitors, and protease inhibitors (PIs) called HAART ( highly active antiret roviral therapy). Because NRTIs and PIs together prevent or attenuate HIV-1 replication, and prolong life, the population of aging patients with HIV/AIDS increases accordingly. However, illnesses frequently associated with aging in the absence of HIV/AIDS appear to occur prematurely in HIV/AIDS patients. Theories that help to explain biological aging include oxidative stress (where mitochondrial oxidative injury exceeds antioxidant defense), chromosome telomere shortening with associated cellular senescence, and accumulation of lamin A precursors (a nuclear envelop protein). Each of these has the potential to be enhanced or caused by HIV/AIDS, antiretroviral therapy, or both. Antiretroviral therapy has been shown to enhance events seen in biological aging. Specifically, antiretroviral NRTIs cause mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress, and mitochondrial DNA defects that resemble features of both HANA and aging. More recent clinical evidence points to telomere shortening caused by NRTI triphosphate-induced inhibition of telomerase, suggesting telomerase reverse transcriptase (TERT) inhibition as being a pathogenetic contributor to premature aging in HIV/AIDS. PIs may also have a role in premature aging in HIV/AIDS as they cause prelamin A accumulation. Overall, toxic side effects of HAART may both resemble and promote events of aging and are worthy of mechanistic studies.
2016 CD4 25% UD (less than 20). 27+ years positive. Isentress, Truvada, Acyclovir, Clonazepam, Zolpidem, Bupropion, Lisinopril, Pravastatin, Quetiapine, Doxcycline, Testosterone, Suatriptan/Naproxen, Restasis, Dorzolamide, Latanoprost, Asprin, lortab, Levothyroxine, Fioricet, Restasis, Triamclinolone, Nitrostat.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,934
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Has ANY research or any credible not "ill informed physicians, scientists, politicians and website" denied the realities of LTS's? Is anyone saying LTS's are the candidate for this "near normal lifespan" we are hearing about.
I thought it was about pretty recent infections and people locked into good care, treatment when needed, and thus also the newest drugs... 
Just saying......
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,272
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
is far from a "manageable" disease
but it's certainly a sight better than still being a terminal illness.  ;)

nearly dying in my thirties (thank you aids),  and about be 52, I just happy to still be alive to suffer through whatever early aging problems are happening to me. ;)

as to your point though, to paraphrase a past POTUS, it probably all depends on what the definition of "manageable" is   ;)

and is this really a "new" idea? We've known for a while the low level reservoirs of HIV, along the long term inflammation, not to mention whatever long term effect of 20 yrs of meds will do, are still doing us all in.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Mishma

  • Member
  • Posts: 190
    • Marquis de Vauban
As I post this I once again have to "lawyer up" (at the $ 1000 a pop) and prove to my long term disability company that I am permanently disabled, despite my HIV doc's recent "The patient has been regressing rapidly," letter. They have access to my medical records but once again the onus is on me to make sure they've accessed these records. And their last determination, 2 years ago,  was that I was permanently disabled. It as if in 2 years I was suppose to spontaneously get better. Miracle, miracle.

The surgeon who recently replaced my hip wasn't interested in anything but my viral burden and CD4 count. After the operation I developed full blown Lupus. 

It may be a "new" idea to some but one that has to be continuously reinforced, especially to those that continue to deliberately engage in unsafe sexual practices under the mistaken belief that HAART will allow them to live a normal and manageable lifespan-and a cure is just around the corner. I've been waiting for over 30 years now.
2016 CD4 25% UD (less than 20). 27+ years positive. Isentress, Truvada, Acyclovir, Clonazepam, Zolpidem, Bupropion, Lisinopril, Pravastatin, Quetiapine, Doxcycline, Testosterone, Suatriptan/Naproxen, Restasis, Dorzolamide, Latanoprost, Asprin, lortab, Levothyroxine, Fioricet, Restasis, Triamclinolone, Nitrostat.

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,131
You make a good point in that HIV tends to get over simplified both by the medical community and those who are affected by it, including us here.

HIV often times is wrapped up neatly into the category of your viral load and cd4 count.  As if those are the only two measurable items that matter.  If your undetectable and have a decent cd4 count then your technically ok.  Even if your body is telling you otherwise.

We really need to get away from the notion that cd4 counts matter to the degree that people make it out to be.  You can have a high cd4 count and HIV still puts you at a greater risk of getting cancer, heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease, oesteoporosis, neuropathy, arthritis....the list is endless. 

New data is showing that extremely low viral replication increases your lymphoma risk.  So even with effective HAART if you have a viral load of 10 which will show up as undetectable on your readings hiv is still causing you damage and putting you at risk.

But, Leatherman is right.  What's the alternative?  We don't want to go back to 80's and 90's obviously.  Things are improving. But;

No one has said HIV has been cured. 

Offline Dr.Strangelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 213
No one has said HIV has been cured.

Well, technically, that's not true. Have you read the news from Egypt lately?

Just kidding.

Offline TigerPoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
http://www.thebody.com/content/69122/premature-aging-and-hiv-dispelling-myths-and-calcu.html

What about this study linked above ?? It is in sharp contest to what is written above in this matter. Accelerated aging - well, maybe some years before but not like decades, and this is not the only study showing that the term accelerated aging in hiv positives is overexaggerated.

Hiv positive individuals consist a heterogenous group - people being diagnosed for Many years or more recently, Through changed in treatment, early or late in the run of the infection, with or without other co-morbidities and with a healthy lifestyle or the opposite - nevertheless several studies suggest a normal life expectancy if you are a gay man, not co-infected with hepatitis b or c, and not intravenous drug addicted who take your hiv medication. I just Think that is a really important message to people getting diagnosed today !
Best regards,

TigerPoz
2013-03-01: HIV Negative
2013-06-09:HIVRNA 540487 CD4+:320 CD8+:230
- started Atripla
2013-06-19:HIVRNA 118971 CD4+:640 CD8+:430
2013-07-10:HIVRNA    1175 CD4+:710 CD8+:480
2013-08-05:HIVRNA       31 CD4+:740 CD8+:400
2013-09-11:HIVRNA       98 CD4+:940 CD8+:930
2013-11-05:HIVRNA       UD CD4+:1000CD8+:1000 changed to Stribild
2013-12-04: HIVRNA      UD CD4+: 990 CD8+:880

Offline Nasty Weather

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
More cause for accelerated aging, alcohol, cocaine heroin,poor diet, cigarettes etc etc

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 616
Theories that help to explain biological aging include oxidative stress (where mitochondrial oxidative injury exceeds antioxidant defense), chromosome telomere shortening with associated cellular senescence, and accumulation of lamin A precursors (a nuclear envelop protein). Each of these has the potential to be enhanced or caused by HIV/AIDS, antiretroviral therapy, or both.
Each of these can be prevented by taking melatonin:


Effects of melatonin on nervous system aging: neurogenesis and neurodegeneration.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23985544

Potential of melatonin to treat or prevent age-related macular degeneration through stimulation of telomerase activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20884126

Melatonin dietary supplement as an anti-aging therapy for age-related bone loss.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24617902

Melatonin and the theories of aging: a critical appraisal of melatonin's role in antiaging mechanisms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24112071

Protective effects of melatonin in reducing oxidative stress and in preserving the fluidity of biological membranes: a review.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24112071


Offline Mishma

  • Member
  • Posts: 190
    • Marquis de Vauban
Each of these can be prevented by taking melatonin:


Effects of melatonin on nervous system aging: neurogenesis and neurodegeneration.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23985544

Potential of melatonin to treat or prevent age-related macular degeneration through stimulation of telomerase activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20884126

Melatonin dietary supplement as an anti-aging therapy for age-related bone loss.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24617902

Melatonin and the theories of aging: a critical appraisal of melatonin's role in antiaging mechanisms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24112071

Protective effects of melatonin in reducing oxidative stress and in preserving the fluidity of biological membranes: a review.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24112071



Possibly, but in general I don't believe a one pill does it all, fountain of youth drug will ever be found.

Most of these studies are with rodents. In theory, melatonin reminds me of the DHEA/DHEAS story some years back. Natural compound, decreases with age and if we give it back to the pt miracles will happen. The upside is that neither DHEA or melantonin will bankrupt you if you decide to take it as a supplement. Downside, with melatonin is it's link to our circadian rhythms and all that entails. It is touted as a anti-jet lag pill (an old boss was really into melatonin and wound healing research, sleep cycles and immunity). 

The study with Macular Degeneration jives with antioxidants in general for the tx of this disease. Quality fish oil or flax seed oil are also prescribed. But, if you've been following the literature on vitamins and chemo, you know that sometimes supplements are a bad thing. Certainly more basic research is required.
2016 CD4 25% UD (less than 20). 27+ years positive. Isentress, Truvada, Acyclovir, Clonazepam, Zolpidem, Bupropion, Lisinopril, Pravastatin, Quetiapine, Doxcycline, Testosterone, Suatriptan/Naproxen, Restasis, Dorzolamide, Latanoprost, Asprin, lortab, Levothyroxine, Fioricet, Restasis, Triamclinolone, Nitrostat.

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 616
To each their own, 20 mg of melatonin works for me,
and I've been taking it for 3 years now,
I've never looked younger,
my sight improved too (from -1 diopters to 0).


You may want to check this book out:


While it is no ''miracle'' drug, it's one of very few substances that are proven
geroprotectors (the others being carnosine and antidiabetic drug metformin).


The greatest thing about melatonin is its use in anticancer therapy:


The efficacy and safety of melatonin in concurrent chemotherapy or radiotherapy for solid tumors: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22271210

Therapeutic response of untreatable hepatocellular carcinoma after application of the immune modulators IL-2, BCG and melatonin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24123026

Neuroimmunomodulation in medical oncology: application of psychoneuroimmunology with subcutaneous low-dose IL-2 and the pineal hormone melatonin in patients with untreatable metastatic solid tumors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18505083

Molecular mechanisms of melatonin's inhibitory actions on breast cancers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23007844


« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 01:14:57 PM by elf »

Offline Mishma

  • Member
  • Posts: 190
    • Marquis de Vauban
Thanks for the link to the book.

 Agreed, to each their own and if its' working for you-FANTASTIC. Perhaps in this age of "personalized" medicine, you've found one that works for you. I haven't been so lucky.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 01:27:47 PM by Mishma »
2016 CD4 25% UD (less than 20). 27+ years positive. Isentress, Truvada, Acyclovir, Clonazepam, Zolpidem, Bupropion, Lisinopril, Pravastatin, Quetiapine, Doxcycline, Testosterone, Suatriptan/Naproxen, Restasis, Dorzolamide, Latanoprost, Asprin, lortab, Levothyroxine, Fioricet, Restasis, Triamclinolone, Nitrostat.

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 616
I've tried many things, from taurine and carnitine to coenzyme Q-10 and turmeric (among other 100 supplements and drugs like disulfiram), but only omega-3 fish oil capsules and melatonin have worked for me.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,934
  • red pill? or blue pill?
To each their own, 20 mg of melatonin works for me,
and I've been taking it for 3 years now,
I've never looked younger,
my sight improved too (from -1 diopters to 0).


I bet you looked younger when you were younger.  How old are you now.

I know people who looked like walking death before they started anti-retrovirals.  Got prettied up nicely from those drugs.  Who would have thunk it.

Only Cher can turn back time, sweeties.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline xinyuan

  • Member
  • Posts: 186
To each their own, 20 mg of melatonin works for me,
and I've been taking it for 3 years now,
I've never looked younger,
my sight improved too (from -1 diopters to 0).

That's called getting age-related far-sightedness ;D

Seriously, do not extrapolate what worked in certain cancers to HIV or aging.

That's like saying "I know my way around Florida, Ukraine can't be that different."

You're changing too many things, including the contexts and assumptions behind those research studies.

Offline sensual1973

  • Member
  • Posts: 195
Its spring time,and the weather is beautiful,guys go out there and enjoy life dont waste your time here.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,934
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Its spring time,and the weather is beautiful,guys go out there and enjoy life dont waste your time here.

People can enjoy the spring (in the Northern Hemisphere and not everywhere yet, duh!!) and still check in here and not be wasting their time.  ::)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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