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Author Topic: How High Can CD4 Count Go?  (Read 2234 times)

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Offline WindySkies

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How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« on: February 10, 2014, 03:57:01 PM »
When I was diagnosed about 14 months ago my CD4 was in the mid 600's.  I started meds right away and as of today my CD4 is near 1,350.  I was actually expecting it to be lower then my last result 4 months back (998) because I've had the flu for about a week and a half, and was sick the day I had my labs done.

So my question is, how high can it go?  Isn't the 'normal' range 500-800?
10/11/2012 Journey Started
10/17/2012 First Labs: VL=57,645  CD4+=730  37%
10/31/2012 Started Complera
11/30/2012 Labs: VL=80  CD4+=929 40%
12/24/2012 Started Stribild

Undetectable since 1/15/13 CD4+= Over 1,400 and 49%

Offline eric48

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 04:23:15 PM »
Depends on country 500-1500 here eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline mecch

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 06:32:24 PM »
Depends on country

clarify this, please?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 07:53:46 PM »
the "normal" range is considered to be 500-1500

of course, a count could be outside that range on the high end. that would just be "above normal"

however, do keep in mind that the cd4 number does not correlate one-on-one with "health" or "feeling healthy". What I mean is that people with low counts (but usually >200) can be fairly healthy (ie not sick or in the hospital); and people with high counts (>500) can  be sick (feel "bad", have definite symptoms, or other illnesses) or even be hospitalized.

What really matters is how well your genetics and immune system work for you. cd4 count is a good representation; but since not 100% accurate to measure "wellness", the cd4 count is not the end-all be-all
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline WindySkies

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 12:18:31 AM »
the "normal" range is considered to be 500-1500

of course, a count could be outside that range on the high end. that would just be "above normal"

however, do keep in mind that the cd4 number does not correlate one-on-one with "health" or "feeling healthy". What I mean is that people with low counts (but usually >200) can be fairly healthy (ie not sick or in the hospital); and people with high counts (>500) can  be sick (feel "bad", have definite symptoms, or other illnesses) or even be hospitalized.

What really matters is how well your genetics and immune system work for you. cd4 count is a good representation; but since not 100% accurate to measure "wellness", the cd4 count is not the end-all be-all

Completely understood.  Just doing my best to keep it up there by healthy living and exercise.  Nothing wrong with giving my body every possible bit of help to stay healthy.  And this flu has showed me anyone can get sick!
10/11/2012 Journey Started
10/17/2012 First Labs: VL=57,645  CD4+=730  37%
10/31/2012 Started Complera
11/30/2012 Labs: VL=80  CD4+=929 40%
12/24/2012 Started Stribild

Undetectable since 1/15/13 CD4+= Over 1,400 and 49%

Offline Ann

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 07:15:22 AM »
clarify this, please?

Quite a few different blood test result values can vary from region to region. It has to do with variations in what the most common genetic make-up is, what the local diet is like and a whole host of other factors that can vary from region to region.

Labs will ascertain the what their region's "normal" lab values are and use that as their reference numbers on their lab result sheets.

Bocker explained this at least once here, but as he's in Africa at the moment you'll have to make-do with my basic explaination. :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 05:43:40 PM »
I've heard of CD4 range variations based on genetics.

Because I live in a multicultural country, as do so many readers of this forum, it wouldn't be so useful to think citizenship e.g. "country" has much to say about "normal" CD4 ranges, if one is in a very multicultural country.  But in a homogenous place, OK.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline elf

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 12:19:12 PM »
I've seen 400-2400 range labeled as ''normal''
(in a patient's labwork papers @ an infectious diseases clinic, here in Croatia,
it was a 9 year old child, HIV-, with CD4 of 480, hospitalized due to some other infection).
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 12:23:49 PM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline zach

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 01:00:07 PM »
i would kill a village of cute fuzzy bunny rabbits for half of your cd4
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline Dr.Strangelove

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 01:08:00 PM »
The CD4+ count varies on plenty of factors (for example women have about 100 more than men).

Quote
Even if you donít have HIV, many factors can affect your CD4 cell count. For example, itís known that:
  • Women have higher CD4 cell counts than men (by about 100).
  • Womenís CD4 cell counts go up and down during the menstrual cycle.
  • Oral contraceptives can lower a womanís CD4 cell count.
  • Smokers tend to have higher CD4 cell counts (by about 140).
  • CD4 cell counts fall after rest Ė by as much as 40%.
  • A good nightís sleep can mean that you have a lower CD4 cell count the following morning, but a higher CD4 cell count the next afternoon.
  • Physical activity can affect CD4 cell counts.
Source

If your CD4+ count is way above the upper bound it may be a sign for leukemia. But there's other/better indicators to detect that than CD4s.

Offline eric48

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 02:53:35 PM »
i would kill a village of cute fuzzy bunny rabbits for half of your cd4
I have 300 too many...
1 cd4= 1 bitcoin ;)
Mobile.eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline harleymc

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2014, 04:45:55 AM »
My cd4s can't get to 100, but hey they each have their own twitter account.

Offline randym431

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 08:58:11 AM »
Those with fairly high cd4 recovery counts, around 1000+, do you or have you experienced fluctuations of say -200 or more ?
Im interested in knowing, once your system recovers to around 1000+, does one stabilize or have you experienced negative fluctuations ?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 09:20:56 AM »
Those with fairly high cd4 recovery counts, around 1000+, do you or have you experienced fluctuations of say -200 or more ?
Im interested in knowing, once your system recovers to around 1000+, does one stabilize or have you experienced negative fluctuations ?

Of course it goes up and down -- and in amounts so large that the rest of you would freak out because you are not used to dealing with large numbers. But these fluctuations aren't clinically significant once you are dealing with +1000 cd4 numbers. Why would anyone care?

As an example here are my own numbers from the last several years:

1/15/14   <20      1504      55.7%
9/4/13   <20      1748      56.4%
5/1/13   <20      1714      55.3%
1/22/13   <20      1462      52.2%
9/26/12     <20        1734      54.2%
5/16/12   <20      1785      52.5%
1/9/12   <20      1712      53.5%
9/28/11   <20      1557      51.9%   
7/5/11   <20      1528      49.3%
3/9/11   <20      1705      48.7%
11/5/10   <20      1264      48.6%
7/21/10   <48      1324      50.0%
4/21/10   <48      1380      45.0%
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline eric48

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2014, 01:22:23 PM »
Mine stay in a band
Current band: 1000-1400
Mobile.eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2014, 08:37:30 AM »
I just wish mine would get and stay above 300! 

Offline eric48

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2014, 09:39:57 AM »
1/15/14   <20      1504      55.7%
9/4/13   <20      1748      56.4%
5/1/13   <20      1714      55.3%
1/22/13   <20      1462      52.2%
9/26/12     <20        1734      54.2%
5/16/12   <20      1785      52.5%
1/9/12   <20      1712      53.5%
9/28/11   <20      1557      51.9%   
7/5/11   <20      1528      49.3%
3/9/11   <20      1705      48.7%
11/5/10   <20      1264      48.6%
7/21/10   <48      1324      50.0%
4/21/10   <48      1380      45.0%

Do you by any chance have the CD8% that you would'nt mind posting. I'd appreciate. Thanks in advance Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline eric48

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2014, 09:55:56 AM »
Im interested in knowing, once your system recovers to around 1000+, does one stabilize or have you experienced negative fluctuations ?

Hi,

I would not use the word 'recover' (because we are unaware of pre-infection levels) but, 'get' to would do

Indeed, I have a few patients graphs in mind and on top of memory ; once the CD4 media of 800 (or 900 here) is surpassed into  the CD4 (high) aka CD41000+, it most certainly stays there. (inless a big flue or something). In other words, if this is your question, it appears that it is not fluctuating over, under, over, under the median line. If CD4 were a random , it would. but, they are not a random number.

Once you realize that they are not randomised, but are clustering in 'bands' or 'attractors' you've made an interesting observation

Hope this helps in your thoughts

Eric

modified to add: I call CD4+1000 CD4 High, I wonder if there is a CD4 overdrive at CD41400+
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 09:59:24 AM by eric48 »
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2014, 10:52:34 AM »
Do you by any chance have the CD8% that you would'nt mind posting. I'd appreciate. Thanks in advance Eric

I do, but if you think I'm going to dig through a folder and supply three years of it you're barking up the wrong tree.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline idee

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  • Hi...
Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2014, 03:07:53 PM »
My last CD4 count was over 1240. that was in July 2013. I moved to Montana so I haven't had my labs done. I do have an appointment April tenth, then I find out where I am at two weeks after that. This doctor is better, I have a co-pay, so they are going to call me with my results and my husband's so it is not an appointment. I hope I am still in a high CD4 count, then again my CD4 count usually goes up and down within a hundred.
I read where people with low CD4 counts can be at their healthiest, and people with high CD4 counts can feel sick or have symptoms... I have always felt ill when I had low CD4 counts. It just kind of worked that way for me.
Right now I have a sore throat, my voice sounds a little hoarse and I have a peppery burning feeling in my sinuses. I deal with this once a year either near the beginning or ending of winter. I just dress warm with a scarf, drink warm beverages and juices, and use sore throat sprays with cough drops. It clears up in 3-4 days.
So I am guessing my CD4 count might be lower, it's usually how it works for me.

Offline bocker3

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2014, 04:54:10 PM »
Quite a few different blood test result values can vary from region to region. It has to do with variations in what the most common genetic make-up is, what the local diet is like and a whole host of other factors that can vary from region to region.

Labs will ascertain the what their region's "normal" lab values are and use that as their reference numbers on their lab result sheets.

Bocker explained this at least once here, but as he's in Africa at the moment you'll have to make-do with my basic explaination. :)
You did a fine job Ann!!  All reference ranges SHOULD be based on the local population (ie. each lab should develop their own) -- in practice this rarely happens anymore. 

Because I live in a multicultural country, as do so many readers of this forum, it wouldn't be so useful to think citizenship e.g. "country" has much to say about "normal" CD4 ranges, if one is in a very multicultural country.  But in a homogenous place, OK.

Actually for many tests it doesn't matter how "multicultural" your locale may be in any way.  Lots of things can impact a reference range (I abhor the term "normal range" - as some folks "normally" fall outside a reference range and this is perfectly normal for them).
Any easy example is the Red Blood Cell count -- at sea level the reference range SHOULD be much lower than someplace with some elevation, say Denver.  While I doubt elevation impacts CD4, other things might -- pollutants, diet, etc. even the units of measurement may differ (so throwing around numbers without units on an international forum is probably not helpful)  So -- asking which country is a perfectly legitimate question.

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline asaint

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Re: How High Can CD4 Count Go?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2014, 05:35:45 PM »
My Doctor gives me a CD4 % total because my numbers fluctuate all the time
6/11 VL <50   CD4 (9%)   CD8 (54%}

 


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