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Author Topic: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..  (Read 2724 times)

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Offline MadisonTeddy

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As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« on: January 19, 2014, 08:36:23 AM »
Hey guys, I am REALLY confused on this ...Assuming SEX=Penetration...Does everyone suggest that prior to kissing you should disclose?  Prior to mutual masturbation you should disclose?  Prior to performing oral sex?  Receiving Oral sex?...Clearly before anal sex regardless of the position..I have tried looking for threads, reading articles but the articles keep say "Sex" and are not clear what they mean by sex...Thanks...Looking for some direction...

Offline darryaz

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 09:27:29 AM »
My rule is prior to ANY of those things..... because one can lead to another rather quickly.

But of course you have to figure what feels right to you.

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 09:57:54 AM »
There may be a LAW that says what should be done, depending on where the two parties are doing it.

If there's no law, we have to act by our moral compass.  You have one. When do you think you should disclose? Does that include what you think the partner would want to know?

Don't rely on some all purpose pamphlet or website - you have already pointed out that the "one size fits all" doesn't help you much. 

What do you think you should do?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline MadisonTeddy

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 10:13:44 AM »
Personally, it feels ok up to and including mutual masturbation, that is the line..Anything beyond that is a MUST disclose....Have not ventured at all out there, and wanted to hear from others before I did, to check my unused compass...I am not worried about anything going beyond that and not having the ability to say no, for theirs and my safe health as well..I would what to know their status as well for HIV and all std's...It's not just their health but to retain mine as well....thoughts??

Offline Jeff G

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2014, 10:19:05 AM »
Hi Teddy . Are you open and out about your HIV status to family and friends ?

There was a time I was wrangling with this issue back in the olden days LOL . One factor that made it clear that I needed to choose disclosure is because it was not out of the realm of possibilities that they may find out my status from some one other than me . 

Offline darryaz

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2014, 10:34:08 AM »
Personally, it feels ok up to and including mutual masturbation, that is the line..Anything beyond that is a MUST disclose....Have not ventured at all out there, and wanted to hear from others before I did, to check my unused compass...I am not worried about anything going beyond that and not having the ability to say no, for theirs and my safe health as well..I would what to know their status as well for HIV and all std's...It's not just their health but to retain mine as well....thoughts??

Sounds to me like you have a good handle on the situation.  Ultimately it's you and your partner(s) who have to live with your decision, not anyone else.

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 11:54:50 AM »
Sounds to me like you have a good handle on the situation.  Ultimately it's you and your partner(s) who have to live with your decision, not anyone else.

Unless there is a law in place, of course.  And then one must figure out whether to respect the law or not.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 12:04:47 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline MadisonTeddy

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 02:13:47 PM »
Maybe I can rephrase the question a bit...Does anyone want to share their experience on when to disclose their status prior to kissing?? I have to assume people in this forum have sex?? The law where I live is, it is illegal to transmit an infectious disease...I got that...Thanks...

Offline Dan0

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 02:41:27 PM »
I put it out there before anything. I still see guys out there that are horribly misinformed or choose to remain ignorant and the last thing I want to go through is a bunch of drama and hand-ringing over a kiss. Sad but true....there are still people who are stuck in the Stone Age of transmission possibilities no matter what their orientation.

I just casually remark, "Oh, by the way, I'm undetectable...." And see where it goes. If they ARE educated or have at least made an attempt then it's never been an issue. If they have no idea what it means....I just say "Damn! Look at the time!" There were even (more than) a few responses that were "oh really? Me too!" I wouldn't spend any more energy....these are the guys that will be a nervous wreck three days later and examining every cough, itch and ache no matter how safe. You could be wrapped from head to toe in latex and it still wouldn't matter!

A kiss at the bar, Pridefest or where ever is one thing....but if something is clearly working towards some more intense contact, then I just just get it out there and dispense with the drama.
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

"Honey, you should never ask advice from a drunk drag queen who has a show to do." - JG

06/2002 DX
10/2006 Atripla UD
10/2013 Stribild Still UD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 02:54:24 PM »
I tell up front, no since wasting their time and mine.

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2014, 03:33:37 PM »
The law where I live is, it is illegal to transmit an infectious disease...I got that...Thanks...
Please check with HIV/AIDS social service workers, OR with local HIV+ support groups, to make sure you understand the law completely.  You see, some of these laws are not just about the TRANSMISSION of hiv.  Some times it is considered a crime to have sex with no disclosure EVEN IF THERE IS NO TRANSMISSION, and/or SAFE SEX and/or LOW RISK BECAUSE OF TREATMENT.   

In some states in the USA - there are people serving time in prison who did NOT transmit HIV and had safe sex.  It is sometimes all down to disclosure, or not..

I'm assuming this is a side issue to your consideration, but since many people read these forums, I think it bears repeating. 

HIV+ people have to be aware of 3 things.
1) their own moral compass
2) accounting for what they think their partner would want
and
3) the stupid, draconian laws that could apply, NO MATTER how well intentioned or how uninformed one really is about the laws....

Over and out...
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 03:39:57 PM »
If you wear a condom and have an undetectable viral load you don't need to disclose anything in Canada.

I'm assuming most of you here think that's wrong. Or not? DISCUSS!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline buginme2

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 04:21:11 PM »
If you wear a condom and have an undetectable viral load you don't need to disclose anything in Canada.

I'm assuming most of you here think that's wrong. Or not? DISCUSS!

Not

Edited to add:  As long as people who are positive continue to fret about disclosing during circumstances which cannot transmit HIV, how can you expect the rest of the world not to freak about non risk situations?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 04:39:16 PM by buginme2 »

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 05:34:20 PM »
Not

Edited to add:  As long as people who are positive continue to fret about disclosing during circumstances which cannot transmit HIV, how can you expect the rest of the world not to freak about non risk situations?

Could you restate that into something I can understand. Sorry to be dense.


A) Are you saying there is no need to disclose to a partner if there will be no risk, because of the act, the protection, or the undetectable status??  Or, I think, you are saying we should disclose and while also pointing out that the sex about to be done has "no risk", anyway.

B) Or, are you saying HIV+ people should disclose over tea or coffee, over a chat or a cocktail, in non sexual situations...

I agree with A) but not universally, it all depends on context, setting, the people involved.  AND furthermore, whether I agree or NOT, is irrelevant to whatever laws might be present in the place.  And  FINALLY, my morality may NOT be appreciated by a partner who isn't disclosed to, even though there was "no risk" so to speak....
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 05:38:26 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline RapidRod

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2014, 05:44:50 PM »
My serum viral load is undetectable, but my semen viral load is not undetectable.  Now what does "undetectable" really mean?

Offline darryaz

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 06:38:25 PM »
I tell up front, no since wasting their time and mine.
+1

I'd much rather be discriminated against by someone I haven't invested anything in than by someone I have.

In my experience, HIV status is not an issue to the worthwhile ones.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2014, 06:43:19 PM »
Hypothetical: what if you are in a gay bath house? In Canada?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline darryaz

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2014, 06:53:48 PM »
Meh.  I used to work in one so these days I don't have much desire to go.

Ms. P brings up a good point though...... are the moral considerations different for someone you'll never see again? 

I would say they're not.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2014, 07:59:21 PM »
Meh.  I used to work in one so these days I don't have much desire to go.

Ms. P brings up a good point though...... are the moral considerations different for someone you'll never see again? 

I would say they're not.

So you dismiss out of hand what has happened in Canada regarding this issue? Emphasis on condom use, of course. We are not discussing barebacking here.

Whether or not you or anyone else in this thread is going to a bath house is irrelevant -- it was stated as a hypothetical. I did this specifically to question moral considerations that come with dating/relationship efforts.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dan0

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2014, 08:07:26 PM »
+1

I'd much rather be discriminated against by someone I haven't invested anything in than by someone I have.

In my experience, HIV status is not an issue to the worthwhile ones.

Too bad there isn't a 'like' button.

I guess I'm just old enough that I just don't care anymore about someone rejecting me because of this. When I was younger - and there is a big difference between 20's and 40's nowadays - everyone was a bit paranoid of "it". It didn't change our behaviors but just added another element to daily life.  I knew how I would have reacted if someone didn't tell me their status irrespective of precautions. I would have wanted the decision beforehand be MY choice. Why should it be any different on the other side?

I'd much rather go through the small process than the aftermath of drama, gossip, accusations and whatever else comes out of an awkward reveal. As far as a bath house.......I just think there is a different set of standards there. People aren't exactly looking for romance so the buyer better beware a bit more enthusiastically. You're not looking for a date or romance (I would think) at a bath house.


You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

"Honey, you should never ask advice from a drunk drag queen who has a show to do." - JG

06/2002 DX
10/2006 Atripla UD
10/2013 Stribild Still UD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2014, 08:17:17 PM »
So you dismiss out of hand what has happened in Canada regarding this issue? Emphasis on condom use, of course. We are not discussing barebacking here.

Whether or not you or anyone else in this thread is going to a bath house is irrelevant -- it was stated as a hypothetical. I did this specifically to question moral considerations that come with dating/relationship efforts.
If the condom fails. is that when you disclose? Even in a baths, are those people undeserving of knowing so they can decide if they want to have sex with you?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2014, 08:21:36 PM »
If the condom fails. is that when you disclose? Even in a baths, are those people undeserving of knowing so they can decide if they want to have sex with you?

So you think the Canadian legislation was based on the scientific advise of quacks? Answer a simple yes or no.

Condom + undetectable viral load is what is in that link below, if you bothered to read it. I'm not interested in your position as the Self-Appointed Morality Police, I'm interested in infection transmission.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2014, 08:27:05 PM »
As far as a bath house.......I just think there is a different set of standards there. People aren't exactly looking for romance so the buyer better beware a bit more enthusiastically. You're not looking for a date or romance (I would think) at a bath house.


I can go to a gay bar, pick up someone, restrict myself to not allowing anything to go further than a trick -- how is that different than a bath house? In fact, I can do the same thing with any situation if I choose to do so -- I could plan on a year of endless dates where I had no intention of doing anything but having a one night stand. Correct? According to the Great Nation of Canada if I use a condom and have a consistent, documented undetectable viral load there is no transmission issue and, as the state, they are void of moral considerations.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dan0

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2014, 08:32:54 PM »
You pick up someone in a bar and chances are you're not visualizing and endless parade of sex partners in the past 45 minutes. Yes, everyone should look out for their own best interests in any situation.....and I never said to 'not disclose' in that situation. I just pointed out that it's very much a different scenario.
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

"Honey, you should never ask advice from a drunk drag queen who has a show to do." - JG

06/2002 DX
10/2006 Atripla UD
10/2013 Stribild Still UD

Offline darryaz

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2014, 08:37:18 PM »
So you dismiss out of hand what has happened in Canada regarding this issue? Emphasis on condom use, of course. We are not discussing barebacking here.

Whether or not you or anyone else in this thread is going to a bath house is irrelevant -- it was stated as a hypothetical. I did this specifically to question moral considerations that come with dating/relationship efforts.

I suppose in this case I do.  I believe there is a moral obligation in play here that trumps Canada's laws.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2014, 08:50:40 PM »
So you think the Canadian legislation was based on the scientific advise of quacks? Answer a simple yes or no.

Condom + undetectable viral load is what is in that link below, if you bothered to read it. I'm not interested in your position as the Self-Appointed Morality Police, I'm interested in infection transmission.
  Why are you concerned at all? It's apparent that you don't care.

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2014, 08:51:44 PM »
Bottom line -- half the HIV+ people can't juggle the reasoning here, cause it involves multiple stakeholders, external factors such as laws (incredibly varied and not often logical), a myriad of possible sexual practices, how many different minute registers of treated, untreated, etc, and several miscellaneous risk reduction techniques. 

So in a nutshell, "always disclose" makes sense as a "one sentence guide", just like "everyone is responsible for their own sexual health" as another.

In my part of Europe I've certainly noticed "always disclose" is not followed, depending on the circumstances, and yes this is a risk in light of the laws, which haven't all changed to stop the witch hunt.

Canada's law is what we want, around the world, obviously...
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2014, 09:12:35 PM »
  Why are you concerned at all? It's apparent that you don't care.

1) you didn't answer the question -- shocker, shuck & jive

2) this isn't about me or my personal activities -- for all you know I've been celibate the  past five years.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2014, 09:14:59 PM »
I suppose in this case I do.  I believe there is a moral obligation in play here that trumps Canada's laws.

If you are not pursuing a relationship, nor risking another person with infection transmission, how does darryaz's morality come into play in terms of enforcing this on others? Were you appointed to some commission akin to Saudi Arabia's Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2014, 09:17:52 PM »
You pick up someone in a bar and chances are you're not visualizing and endless parade of sex partners in the past 45 minutes. Yes, everyone should look out for their own best interests in any situation.....and I never said to 'not disclose' in that situation. I just pointed out that it's very much a different scenario.

Am I understanding your ambiguous post correctly -- are you admitting that in terms of disclosure the morality is relative to the situation one is in?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2014, 09:19:01 PM »
This is getting off topic and out of hand so if you guys cant be civil then do not post in this thread again .

Offline wolfter

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2014, 08:04:49 AM »
If you search "disclosure" here, you'll find more than enough views on this topic as it reappears on a frequent basis.

I believe we all come to terms with our individualized beliefs and become comfortable with those decisions.  For me, it's simply easier to disclose before I invest too much time into a relationship...be it a one nighter or potential long termer.

wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Buckmark

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2014, 11:30:47 AM »
It's a shame (but not surprising) that the original poster's thread was hijacked.  Disclosure can be tricky.  For me, it comes down to how I want to live my life:  open and honest.  The earlier the disclosure, the better -- and no apologies for being positive, just state it as a fact.  Of course, you'll want to use good judgement.  You don't need to tell every Tom, Dick and Harry that you have HIV.  But on the first (or maybe second) date, if you feel the person is mature and worth pursuing further, being it up in conversation as you are learning about each other.

The thing HIV and disclosure is that when you keep it a secret, it holds a lot of power over you (and can give other people power over you).   The more open you are, the less power it has, and the less you have to worry.  It sounds counterintuitive, but it's often true.  Now there are certain cultures and places in the world where HIV is so verboten that it is hard to disclose.  But ultimately you need to decide how you want to live your life.  Being open about HIV isn't necessarily easy, but it does afford you a certain integrity.

Best of luck,

Henry

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Lou-ah-vull

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2014, 09:06:54 PM »
Henry, so very wise and so very true!

Gary
Diagnosed Oct. 2005
10/05:  367 (26.2%), 24556 VL
01/06:  344 (24.6%), 86299 VL
04/06:  374 (22.0%), 87657 VL
05/06:  Began HAART 05/15/06, Combivir/Kaletra
07/06:  361 (27.8%), 1299 VL
10/06:  454 (32.4%), 55 VL
01/07:  499 (38.4%), UD
02/07:  Switched to Atripla 2/8/07
04/07:  566 (37.7%), UD
08/07:  761 (42.3%), UD
06/08:  659 (47.1%), UD
01/09:  613 (43.8%), UD
07/09:  616 (47.4%), UD
01/10:  530 (44.2%), UD
07/10:  636 (48.9%), UD
01/11:  627 (48.2%), UD
07/11:  840 (52.5%), UD
01/12:  920 (51.1%), UD
07/12:  857 (50.4%), 40
10/12:  UD
01/13:  710 (47.3%), UD
07/13:  886 (49.2%), UD
01/14:  985 (46.9%), UD
06/14:  823 (47.2%), UD

Offline cicero

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »
My serum viral load is undetectable, but my semen viral load is not undetectable.  Now what does "undetectable" really mean?

Hi RapidRod, I ask this out of sincere curiosity -- how do you know this? Is there a separate test for viral load in semen?  Sorry to veer a little off topic here.
"How could this happen to lovely me?" -Jacqueline Susann

Offline mecch

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Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2014, 06:18:06 AM »
Disclosure threads are often messy and go in many directions. But I have been very thankful for them.  As long as people in the forum don't get nasty with each other, I don't think tangents or anything about them are a shame or a waste.

New people are always joining the forum and have to start somewhere. Also who knows how many people never join but still read and think about this stuff.

I made up most of my reasoning and got the necessary information and contexts to consider, starting 5 years ago when I got HIV, reading threads like here.

I know a lot of people want to think such matters are best decided mostly individually.

But the HIV criminalisation laws are so varied and really not so logical. It can be a big surprise, and a shock, bad news, to learn that we may have to work such laws into our reasonings and then our actions..


ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2014, 09:37:19 AM »
As long as people in the forum don't get nasty with each other, I don't think tangents or anything about them are a shame or a waste.

Agreed
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Since2005

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  • Posts: 421
Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2014, 02:01:12 AM »
This is way over rehearsed topic but very much needed. Morality or not, HIV criminalization should be banned forever!!! This is ridiculous that people are getting put in jail for spitting.

As for sex, it takes two to have it, So, there goes your responsibility 50/50. I can understand the "intentional" infection may be criminalized. However, USA is far from establishing "only intentional harm". Not only HIV criminalization putting others in unnecessary risks for no reasons, but also lots of people do not want to get tested as a result of fear of getting prosecuted.

There are some progress have been made towards banning HIV criminalization. Please find Sean Strub's blog about this.
http://www.seanstrub.com/blog/us-military-hiv-huge-step-forward
There are some great success have been made towards these issues and as Sean was saying that these are some great success / baby step/ one step at a time.

I only can imagine a day where HIV criminalization will be stopped all over the world. I am sure hopeful.

OP, to not hijack your thread, but these issues are very related. As someone was saying what can morally be right may not necessarily be right in eyes of law. So, these are all important to all of us.

Offline MarcoPoz

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  • Posts: 396
Re: As for "SEX"..When should one disclose their status..
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 08:56:00 AM »
STOP THE PRESSES and clutch your pearls!!!!  I'm in FULL agreement with Miss P on this.

 


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