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Author Topic: Mr Obama and Mr Castro  (Read 2258 times)

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Offline Theyer

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Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« on: December 10, 2013, 08:05:38 AM »
Have shook hands at the Mandela Ceremony today in South Africa BBC reporting.
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Online Jeff G

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 08:21:44 AM »
Fox news needs to have ambulances on standby today when Hannity hyperventilates .

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 09:34:54 AM »
Puhleaze, he's shaken hands with Ghaddafi, Chavez and is totes besties with Rouhani...why wouldn't he shake hands with Castro  ;)
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Online Jeff G

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 09:36:46 AM »
Puhleaze, he's shaken hands with Ghaddafi, Chavez and is totes besties with Rouhani...why wouldn't he shake hands with Castro  ;)

It sends out the horrible message to the world that Americans have manners . 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 10:00:58 AM »
It sends out the horrible message to the world that Americans have manners .

Manners are good. Recognizing torturers and Human Rights abusers while alienating our Ally heads of states by tapping their personal cellphones is questionable.

Cuba and US have been thawing, albeit slowly, for years. I have no problem with this thawing in the least bit so long as it leads to human rights reforms in these countries, which Raul is slow to enact after the retirement of his tyrant brother.

Dispense with the photo-ops and get down to serious business

« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 10:03:05 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 10:20:49 AM »
Remember the time Dubya kissed and held hands with the Saudi ruler that gave birth to 19 terrorists -- and on the very same day that the Republican House formally banned gay unions.

My how times have changed.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 10:39:23 AM »
Yes, let's compare everything to back to Bush. Btw, it's common knowledge that GW set back Cuban - US relations by at least 40 years. Which was stupid.

Look, I know all you people are giddy at the anticipation of swilling Club Havana Rum and toking on Cuban cigars next week given this handshake but unfortunately until old man Fidel croaks (or at least slips into the sweet embrace of dementia) nothing significant will happen.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 10:44:54 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 10:47:35 AM »
Have you ever actually studied the Cuban Revolution and the US support of DICTATOR Fulgencio Batista along with his human rights abuses, or how US companies controlled majority portions of the domestic Cuban economy?

Now tell me, who wouldn't take up arms? It's very sad that your Texas right wing views have been so shaped by the elite-class South Florida Cuban emigres that have engaged in terrorist activities against a foreign state, and which the US has tolerated harboring instead of allowing them public trial. The US places Cuba on its list of "state sponsors of terror" while harboring Luis Posada and the late Orlando Bosch, both involved with the CIA and the 1976 bombing of a Cuban commercial airliner that killed 73 people.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 11:08:13 AM »

 It's very sad that your Texas right wing views

So you are in agreements with Cuba's current use of sham trials and imprisonment of people without due process, locking up citizens to lanquish in prison in unsanitary and inhuman conditions merely for daring to exercise their fundamental rights?

If you're so against these fundamental rights in Cuba take it up with your President and his left-wings views who stated he would not lift trade embargos until Cuba reforms Human rights.

hmmm?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 11:11:13 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline Theyer

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 11:58:55 AM »
So you are in agreements with Cuba's current use of sham trials and imprisonment of people without due process, locking up citizens to lanquish in prison in unsanitary and inhuman conditions merely for daring to exercise their fundamental rights?

If you're so against these fundamental rights in Cuba take it up with your President and his left-wings views who stated he would not lift trade embargos until Cuba reforms Human rights.

hmmm?

Supporting a better relationship between the US and Cuba does not mean supporting lack of human rights , abuses of human rights in those countries. Rather it is recognizing that polarized positions are damaging , that there are modernizers within both countries who will be strengthen by this action.
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Online mecch

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 12:05:34 PM »
Remember the time Dubya kissed and held hands with the Saudi ruler that gave birth to 19 terrorists -- and on the very same day that the Republican House formally banned gay unions.

My how times have changed.

Which Saudi "ruler" was that again?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Online mecch

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 12:14:17 PM »
Have you ever actually studied the Cuban Revolution and the US support of DICTATOR Fulgencio Batista along with his human rights abuses, or how US companies controlled majority portions of the domestic Cuban economy?

Now tell me, who wouldn't take up arms? It's very sad that your Texas right wing views have been so shaped by the elite-class South Florida Cuban emigres that have engaged in terrorist activities against a foreign state, and which the US has tolerated harboring instead of allowing them public trial. The US places Cuba on its list of "state sponsors of terror" while harboring Luis Posada and the late Orlando Bosch, both involved with the CIA and the 1976 bombing of a Cuban commercial airliner that killed 73 people.

The right will never acknowledge the good side to marxist revolutions, the necessary corrections they brought to colonised and oppressed people. Because the party line. Because marxist revolutions have considerable downsides in totalitarian state aftermaths.

Having sat through dozens of hours of Cuban history and the entire history of Cuban film, its clear there were many advantages and disadvantages to the Castro-led change of that country.  But like the feats of the Russian space program, very little of that filtered into American public awareness over the decades... 

People love their binaries. Castro's Cuba MUST have been evil.

Anyway, its obviously time for the US-Cuba reconciliation.  We jumped into bed with China years ago, for economic gain and necessity.   
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 02:46:36 PM »
Which Saudi "ruler" was that again?

Which ever crown prince ruler was alive then.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 02:47:41 PM »
So you are in agreements with Cuba's current use of sham trials and imprisonment of people without due process, locking up citizens to lanquish in prison in unsanitary and inhuman conditions merely for daring to exercise their fundamental rights?

Did you actually say that with a straight face considering Guantanamo is in Cuba? Exactly how many Fox News enemas do you take every day?

Should I mail you my copy of "Overthrown" by Stephen Kinzer?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 03:09:50 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Theyer

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2013, 03:55:48 PM »
Which Saudi "ruler" was that again?

Fred
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline RobbyR

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2013, 04:02:10 PM »
Speaking out strongly for human rights in Cuba while maintaining dialogue/pressure on the regime there aren't mutually exclusive. You can talk to your opponents while being steadfast in your beliefs. We talked to the Soviets for years, while still articulating our beliefs. We had numerous summits with Soviet leaders while the threat of nuclear war was constant. In other words, one can talk to one's enemies while also being very frank in areas of disagreements. In other words, as JFK said, never negotiate out of fear, but never fear to negotiate, plain & simple.

Last time I checked, there aren't Soviet missiles in Cuba anymore, so there's no reason for us not to have a frank dialogue with them while simultaneously speaking out strongly for human rights. Both can be done.
Started Atripla August, 2010.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2013, 04:47:02 PM »
I am 100% behind a complete thawing of relations between the 2 countries. I think more could be accomplished by Obama inviting Raul to Washington and beginning discussions face to face, how hard would that be. Raul has already stated he is willing to sit down with the US and discuss "anything".

I just find it cute how everyone gets all giddy about a handshake. Do something meaningful. Btw, Obama didnt seek out this encounter, it was just "there".




« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 05:10:34 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline buginme2

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2013, 06:47:31 PM »
It's not like he slipped him the tongue
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2013, 06:49:09 PM »
So you are in agreements with Cuba's the U.S.'s current use of sham trials and imprisonment of people without due process, locking up citizens to lanquish in prison in unsanitary and inhuman conditions merely for daring to exercise their fundamental rights?



Okay, when did we switch the topic to Gitmo and Edward Snowden?   ;) ;D ::)   (sorry, couldn't resist the multiple emoticons)
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Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Online Jeff G

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2013, 07:12:55 PM »
What would Crown Prince Fred think if he was still alive .

Offline Joe K

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2013, 07:18:42 PM »
It's not like he slipped him the tongue

^^^^^  Thanks Bug.  Best laugh I have had all week.  8) 8) 8)

Joe

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 08:31:30 PM »
So after yucking it up with the Communists, Obama takes selfies with his homies at the memorial....Michelle, being the proper lady that she is, is not pleased.





« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 09:00:23 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2013, 10:38:18 AM »
I saw this man, and in watching him something looked peculiar but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Apparently some random man was standing up there next to Obama moving his arms around and pretending to sign...Some in the deaf community said "he was only flapping his arms around"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/deaf-interpreter-nelson-mandela-memorial-fake-officials-article-1.1544251
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Online Dachshund

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2013, 12:21:03 PM »
So after yucking it up with the Communists, Obama takes selfies with his homies at the memorial....Michelle, being the proper lady that she is, is not pleased.



Oh really?

http://www.today.com/news/first-lady-not-peeved-says-photographer-who-caught-obama-selfie-2D11723566

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 12:38:06 PM »
I saw this man, and in watching him something looked peculiar but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Apparently some random man was standing up there next to Obama moving his arms around and pretending to sign...Some in the deaf community said "he was only flapping his arms around"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/deaf-interpreter-nelson-mandela-memorial-fake-officials-article-1.1544251

How does this happen?  How does he get by secret service?  You had so many world leaders there.  Many reporters also said the crowd was not screened.  Bocker, surely the NSA knew who he was...lol.  Kidding.  Seriously, this is concerning, to me. 

I was watching him live, and we were questioning what language he was signing in. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 04:28:09 PM »
For someone who professes to have voted for Obama twice Guilhermina sure expends a lot of energy on a daily basis trying to impersonate Laura Ingraham.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online mecch

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2013, 05:38:25 PM »
I thought of the security nightmare as soon as the guest list started to be reported.
When this snafu about the fake interpreter showed up on my morning news review, I swallowed hard.  I mean really?  REALLY?   Really!
I'll just assume the security details of all these heads of state did their own detail scrupulously and assumed the South African government and/or the ANC were beside the point.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 07:17:03 PM »
For someone who professes to have voted for Obama twice Guilhermina sure expends a lot of energy on a daily basis trying to impersonate Laura Ingraham.

I voted for Gary "My next-door neighbor's two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than this administration." Johnson last time around.

How does this happen?  How does he get by secret service?  You had so many world leaders there.  Many reporters also said the crowd was not screened.  Bocker, surely the NSA knew who he was...lol.  Kidding.  Seriously, this is concerning, to me. 

I was watching him live, and we were questioning what language he was signing in. 

Its crazy! Surely he was vetted by security???

Edited: Interestingly I just heard CNN address this, they say the host country is responsible for providing names of everyone who will be within the security perimeter to the Secret Service no later than 48hous before the event. The South African Govt did this. Secret Service hasn't commented, but one can assume they screened his background but of course they don't screen for professional capabilities (ie. can he sign)

They just played a clip of him signing the same thing over and over while the speaker was talking. LAWL
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:44:22 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 07:58:15 PM »
And, he's been criticized for fake signing at other events.  I am always perplexed by security.  I went to see President Clinton at a local school, in October 2000, when he was still prez.  I ran in last minute.  Secret service only had a hand wand and just did my everything below my neck.  But, I was wearing a baseball cap.  They didn't make me take it off or wand my head.  I made my way all the way to the barriers and shook hands and spoke to him.  Could have hidden a gun in cap.  And, I was looking rough.  I was trying a beard then.  It was bad. 

We went down to Gore's Nashville election night 2000 HQ.  Once again, barely any security.  Went to see both Kerry and Edwards and no security at all.  Shook hands with both of them. 

When I volunteered for Obama in 2008 and he met with us after a rally here, we did go through more security.  Brian was asked to take his shirt off, for some reason.   This happened after criticism Obama rallies weren't screening everyone.  Brian stood guard next to Bush at the firefighters memorial.  They did have to submit social security numbers for background checks.  But, I think he said they never screen him. 

Offline Dan0

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 11:52:43 PM »

*knock*
*knock*

'Oh...hello hypocrisy'

You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Ann

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2013, 07:56:57 AM »
For someone who professes to have voted for Obama twice Guilhermina sure expends a lot of energy on a daily basis trying to impersonate Laura Ingalls.

Fixed.
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Offline wolfter

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2013, 08:05:27 AM »
I hope this reduces tensions and lifts travel restrictions, Cubans are totally hot.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Mr Obama and Mr Castro
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2013, 09:54:53 AM »
Here's MissP practicing for when the embargos are lifted.. which clearly is imminent given the handshake  ::)

« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 10:11:42 AM by WillyWump »
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