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Author Topic: 16 down, 34 to go...  (Read 13213 times)

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Offline mitch777

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16 down, 34 to go...
« on: November 21, 2013, 06:20:43 PM »
So, now that Hawaii and Illinois have joined the ranks accepting gay marriage who's next?

Ultimately I think the house of cards will fall with a Supreme Court ruling but wondered what you all thought about which states might come next in the mean time.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 07:08:30 PM »
Its a related issue . The sates that are making it hard for the military same sex couples to get their benefits by requiring them to go to a federal facility are unwittingly making the case for the courts to make same sex marriage a federal issue or remedy instead of the sates rights argument .

If the states keep skirting federal law and not recognizing all legal marriages across state lines then there is no other way other than the supreme court to do what the sates refuse and that's rule in favor for full civil rights for gays , lesbians and transgendered citizens .


Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 08:22:24 PM »
Agreed.^ So no guess on state #17 in the mean time?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/11/which_states_allow_gay_marriage_mapped.html

My guess would be Oregon or New Mexico?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:27:18 PM by mitch777 »
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 08:26:29 PM »
Agreed.^ So no guess on state #17 in the mean time?

It wont be Alabama . What state do you think is next ?

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 08:28:07 PM »
It wont be Alabama . What state do you think is next ?

see edit of last post. :) Or maybe Saskatchewan. That's a state right? :)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:31:17 PM by mitch777 »
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 08:37:21 PM »
Pennsylvania is the on state in the northeast that hasn't passed marriage equality -- mostly because only half of the state is culturally "northeast" -- the central and western parts are more Mid-West culturally. But we also have the most at-risk governor for 2014 elections and his approval numbed are the lowest of any governor, so he will definitely lose to a Democrat. Then the problem is that the PA legislature (General Assembly) has 253 members making it the largest state legislature other than New Hampshire (which doesn't really count because the state's population is smaller than the city I live in). So our legislature is automatically slanted towards rural districts, hence why we're behind our neighbors.

My guess would be for Oregon to be next, maybe Nevada. Pennsylvania's will happen due to some court decision so it's just a matter of having a strong case brought at some point.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 08:41:28 PM »
I also vote for Oregon next.   

What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing? 

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 08:45:12 PM »
I also vote for Oregon next.   

What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing?

*court ordered*
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 08:51:44 PM »
Pennsylvania is the on state in the northeast that hasn't passed marriage equality -- mostly because only half of the state is culturally "northeast" -- the central and western parts are more Mid-West culturally. But we also have the most at-risk governor for 2014 elections and his approval numbed are the lowest of any governor, so he will definitely lose to a Democrat. Then the problem is that the PA legislature (General Assembly) has 253 members making it the largest state legislature other than New Hampshire (which doesn't really count because the state's population is smaller than the city I live in). So our legislature is automatically slanted towards rural districts, hence why we're behind our neighbors.

My guess would be for Oregon to be next, maybe Nevada. Pennsylvania's will happen due to some court decision so it's just a matter of having a strong case brought at some point.

That's my take on PA. I get the feeling several states are in a similar boat.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2013, 12:13:35 AM »
Oregon is a good bet.  But, we are running out of more progressive states.  So, that means a SCOTUS decision.  I just can't imagine having some states with it and others not doing it for 20, 30, 50, and never years. 

I am saddened Indiana repubs are trying to get the anti-gay wagon started again.  They are again proposing a ban.  The city council of New Albany, IN (across the river from us) passed a resolution tonight, calling for the ban to be stopped.  Purdue University has also called for it to be stopped.  I hope more cities let their voices be known.  They know they need a more progressive state (at least on this issue) to attract top people.  If you're married in CA or NY, who would want to move to Indiana or other states where their marriage wouldn't mean anything.  More and more gay couples have kids.  They would fear moving there would leave their kids unprotected.


Offline Theyer

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 03:03:25 AM »
I read an article this week that used statistics to show left leaning ares where attracting like minded newcomers from right wing states and savers. The author saw this as further polarization off the USA . I will continue to search for it , if you know such an article please post it .
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline marcmoral16

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 03:23:05 AM »
Oregon is probably a good choice BUT

I think New Mexico will be next with the courts stepping in due to six counties issuing marriage license to same sex couples.

I predict 25 states will have legalized same sex marriage either through the courts or through state legislature by 2018

Or much sooner if the 2014 midterm elections help better people get in.

Favoriting this thread so I can either come back and stick my foot in my mouth 4 years from now or be so happy because everyone can experience the freedom of equality.

EDITED: Spelling
Tested Positive Jan 16 2013
CD4 119 6% VL 23980
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July 2014 CD4 450 26% VL <20

Offline wolfter

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2013, 04:50:24 AM »
It won't be Texas.  I'd have to research to find links, but they're defying federal law regarding the entire issue.  Ohio, being a bluish/red state will probably be soon,
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 08:09:28 AM »
What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing?

All of them -- due to a SCOTUS ruling. 

None of them will rescind their Constitutional Amendments because those folks in favor (or more likely for many, don't care) about same-sex marriage don't have the numbers of passionate folks to come out and vote.  Those against it are more likely to vote. 

M
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 09:32:45 AM »
fyi, Pennsylvania was never one of those states that past an anti-equality constitutional amendment years ago. However they did legislate against it. Also, this just happened this past Monday. And remember, PA was one of the few states with a Republican senator (Toomey) that actually supported EDNA several weeks ago.

So it will either be a court case, or passage of House bill 1647 to repeal PA's defense of marriage act (again, it was not an amendment). You have to remember how many years it took for any bipartisan action on this issue in New York state. The only reason it eventually passed was due to business leaders pressuring a small amount of Republican lawmakers in Albany, threatening not to fund their reelections and asserting that it was bad for business not to pass it (which is true).

So what is needed is similar corporate (local) business pressure in PA, from the likes of (liberal) Comcast CEO Brian Roberts and others in the Philadelphia region, as well as Pittsburgh. Roberts just held a huge fundraiser at his home in Philly just a couple of weeks ago, hosted him over the summer on Martha's Vineyard, and frequently golfs with him. Realistically I can see PA acting on this by 2016.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 10:37:27 AM »
All of them -- due to a SCOTUS ruling. 

None of them will rescind their Constitutional Amendments because those folks in favor (or more likely for many, don't care) about same-sex marriage don't have the numbers of passionate folks to come out and vote.  Those against it are more likely to vote. 

M

 Maybe,  Probably,  but I think one or two will do it before hand (I hope).  I  think Arizona or  Colorado or Nevada has it in them.   They are western  red and not southern red and there is a libertarian slant there. 

 When marriage equality passed here in Washington,  many of the pro gay marriage commercials on tv  were from republicans speaking how it's actually a  Republican issue to support it.   Granted that may not fly in a lot of places.


My partner and I got married this year. While we don't have any plans on moving I would like to be able to have the option odd livingin more than just 16  states.

Offline weasel

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 11:15:59 AM »

  I am surprised Nevada has not passed the bill yet  . But they did get their
  Pot legalized   :)

     I think a state like Oregon will be next .

                                                  Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 01:22:07 PM »
  I am surprised Nevada has not passed the bill yet  . But they did get their
  Pot legalized   :)

     I think a state like Oregon will be next .

                                                  Weasel

 Pot  is still illegal in Nevada ( Colorado and Washington legalized it).

 I'm surprised Nevada hasn't legalized marriage considering how much of their economy is based on tourism and people going to Vegas to get married.  You would think the economics of it would have persuaded then by now.   Especially considering how much$ you spend having a wedding.

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2013, 12:22:27 PM »
Speaking of Republican states.  Six states have refused to follow federal law and provide benefits to same sex spouses in the National Guard

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/us/texas-and-5-other-states-resist-processing-benefits-for-gay-couples.html?_r=0

One state, Oklahoma has gone so far as dropping ALL benefits for National Guard spouses (straight or gay) so they don't have to provide benefits for the gays.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/11/19/2970531/oklahoma-national-guard/

F'ing Bigots

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 03:50:33 PM »
Texas=LOL
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline darryaz

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2013, 08:44:35 PM »
Its a related issue . The sates that are making it hard for the military same sex couples to get their benefits by requiring them to go to a federal facility are unwittingly making the case for the courts to make same sex marriage a federal issue or remedy instead of the sates rights argument .

If the states keep skirting federal law and not recognizing all legal marriages across state lines then there is no other way other than the supreme court to do what the sates refuse and that's rule in favor for full civil rights for gays , lesbians and transgendered citizens .

You are of course referring to Oklahoma where our horrid governor eliminated ALL military spouse benefits just so she could discriminate against same-sex spouses.  (Oh, just noticed that Bug mentioned Oklahoma as well.)

I hope you're right, and a federal remedy becomes law because in this ass-backward, bigoted part of the country a federal ruling is absolutely necessary for same-sex marriage to be recognized (I still hear the N-word regularly).

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 10:18:04 AM »
While Texas and Oklahoma and the remain states of the 34 continue to allow their prejudice to run the show, the states that do allow marriage equality are seeing dollar signs.


http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2022357105_gaymarriagebusinessxml.html

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2013, 01:26:55 PM »
Oregon teen uses Bar Mitzvah speech to support marriage equality, by discussing what "traditional marriage" meant in the Torah.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4363083

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2013, 03:48:36 PM »
Oregon teen uses Bar Mitzvah speech to support marriage equality, by discussing what "traditional marriage" meant in the Torah.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4363083
Great kid! C'mon Oregon, you can do it!
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 02:05:40 PM »
Number 17 is New Mexico. Today's ruling by the NM Supreme Court!  :)
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 02:51:35 PM »
Oregon is probably a good choice BUT

I think New Mexico will be next with the courts stepping in due to six counties issuing marriage license to same sex couples.

I predict 25 states will have legalized same sex marriage either through the courts or through state legislature by 2018

Or much sooner if the 2014 midterm elections help better people get in.

Favoriting this thread so I can either come back and stick my foot in my mouth 4 years from now or be so happy because everyone can experience the freedom of equality.

EDITED: Spelling

Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 03:47:31 PM »
Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

LOL!  I say Mississippi. 

The only other likely state is Oregon, right?  I'm trying to think in my head which states could do this soon.  I could possibly see Michigan.  I only say that due to Facebook data of the greatest number of profile changes to the red equality logo.  Michigan was pretty hot.  I realize that doesn't necessarily equate to getting marriage equality.  But, I could see Michigan making a change maybe in 5 years.  Those younger folks will be voting.  I think most (if not all) state supreme courts are posts for life, no?  Well, that will take longer to get governors to appoint judges, who do view this as the equal rights issue it is. 

So, I am left wondering when and if the U.S. Supreme Court will go broad.  We know many states would take another generation-- even 3 or 4 more generations in some. 

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2013, 05:25:44 PM »
Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

Oregon.

btw bugs, I think I deserve at least an honorable mention. lol.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2013, 05:46:40 PM »
Oregon.

btw bugs, I think I deserve at least an honorable mention. lol.

I'm sorry, I should have scrolled up more.

If we look at the 2012 electoral map.  The blue's left would be:Nevada, Oregon, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Colorado, and Florida (did I miss any?). 

It's really a toss up as to who's next with Oregon maybe with the advantage.



See the comparison between the electoral map and the states that permit the gays to get hitched?  Quite striking really.  I think it speaks volumes as to the social divide in this country.  Really, two countries.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 05:50:58 PM by buginme2 »

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 05:50:54 PM »
Well, the successful lawyers from the Prop 8 case have joined a challenge here in Virginia....  Would be very fitting if a VA case was the one the SCOTUS used to overturn all the same-sex marriage bans -- just like VA vs. Loving case did for the interracial bans.

However -- that would likely take a couple years, so let's hope something quicker happens.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline denb45

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2013, 06:04:53 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/19/us-usa-gaymarriage-newmexico-idUSBRE9BI11E20131219

YAY!!!

now if i can get my VA ebenefits, and bob married me, he be set for life even after I was long DEAD  :D

EDITED TO ADD:  17 down & 34 to go......get me to the church on time  8)

DEN

HUGS
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:19:13 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2013, 06:05:37 PM »
That's ok bugs. Just kidding.

I hardly consider some of those states "blue", more purple, so I would be quick to eliminate Florida, Virginia, and Ohio. Not really knowing the inner politics of the remainder too well I would still go with Oregon.

After Oregon and maybe a few more, my guess is that a case will be brought up to the Supreme Court to bring marriage equality to all. (in 2015 or the first half of 2016)

I'd much rather get this obvious conclusion over with so that the gay people in our country can focus more on HIV and how it affects our community and those elected officials that stand in the way.

PS- Mike, I hope you are right although I really don't care what state it stems from as long as it gets done.  :)
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2013, 08:58:25 PM »
That's ok bugs. Just kidding.

I hardly consider some of those states "blue", more purple, so I would be quick to eliminate Florida, Virginia, and Ohio. Not really knowing the inner politics of the remainder too well I would still go with Oregon.

After Oregon and maybe a few more, my guess is that a case will be brought up to the Supreme Court to bring marriage equality to all. (in 2015 or the first half of 2016)

I'd much rather get this obvious conclusion over with so that the gay people in our country can focus more on HIV and how it affects our community and those elected officials that stand in the way.

PS- Mike, I hope you are right although I really don't care what state it stems from as long as it gets done.  :)

Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2013, 09:47:48 PM »
Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M

I think there are more states that are more blue than we think. It's up to those who live in them to make a difference when causes are just.

The victory of which you speak was won by a thin margin due to the ludicrous Republican opponents. I'm glad that common sense prevailed in any case, whatever the reason.

I still think Virginia is a purple state. Maybe one of the purplest  (yes, that's a word I think. :).) states in the country.

Time to mix the paint a bit more. You may or may not agree but I believe a heavy dose of cobalt blue is needed.  :)
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2013, 09:57:41 PM »
Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M

I forgot Virginia.  Yes!  Virginia has really changed.  And, I totally forgot Colorado.  Those two are more likely than say Pennsylvania. 

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 10:48:22 PM »
Unfortunately, Virginia will only join by order of the SCOTUS. 

To undo our Constitutional Amendment a bill would have to pass two legislative sessions before going to a referendum.  With the horrific gerrymandering in place, The republicans will continue to run the House of Delegates for years and years.  The Dems win the statewide "popular vote", but gerrymandering has concentrated them into just a few districts. 
So, unless we change how we draw districts, it ain't changing here except by the SCOTUS -- because we certainly aren't going to get the legislative branch to give up their power to keep power by picking voters.

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2013, 11:46:00 PM »
How is the Virginia Supreme Court stacked?  Do they seem to rule along political lines?  I actually would have to research how our Supreme Court rules.  There haven't been many big cases here that got much news.  I really should know more about ours-- whether they are considered politically divided or not.  It will give me some reading homework. 

It does make me wonder why no one has challenged our ban to our high court.  I think there are a couple suits in the works now, though. 

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2013, 04:22:07 AM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it. 

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2013, 07:58:45 AM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it.

We need an Amendment referendum - and, like I said above, that can't happen until 2 votes by the State Legislature to put an amendment to a vote.  Not happening.......
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2013, 12:49:27 PM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it.

I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.
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Online Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2013, 12:55:23 PM »
I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.

I agree but those initiatives may be the key to unlock the door for those of us that are in states that will still deny us our rights 100 years from now given the choice . The supreme court will eventually rule in our favor and the states that's used initiatives and won are making it a bit easier for them to get to the conclusion whats good for same is good for all of us . I think .

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2013, 04:34:23 PM »

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2013, 05:03:28 PM »
I agree but those initiatives may be the key to unlock the door for those of us that are in states that will still deny us our rights 100 years from now given the choice . The supreme court will eventually rule in our favor and the states that's used initiatives and won are making it a bit easier for them to get to the conclusion whats good for same is good for all of us . I think .

I hear you but I don't believe the Supreme Court should not even be paying attention to initiatives in regards to rights. The two just don't mix IMHO. Rights are rights. Not something we as a country should ever put up for a vote. Lawsuits that have merit on the other hand... that is what just happened this summer and seems to be working pretty well. Major progress has been happening since. Another properly presented case will suddenly put an end to this discrimination and I think it will happen within a few short years.

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Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2013, 05:06:59 PM »
I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.

I don't believe that the majority should vote on the rights of a minority either.  However, I was asking because of the statement that Virginia would have to wait until the courts forced the state to change their law.  I was curious if the people could force an initiative. 

I did some research and from what I found on Wikipedia, the initiative process is mostly a west coast thing.  Most of the east coast states do not allow citizen driven initiatives. 

Wow!  So much going on lately.  Federal judge strikes down Utah ban.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28099570&nid=148&title=utah-judge-rules-same-sex-marriage-law-unconstitutional&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

Just a matter of time

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2013, 05:09:11 PM »
Wow!  So much going on lately.  Federal judge strikes down Utah ban.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28099570&nid=148&title=utah-judge-rules-same-sex-marriage-law-unconstitutional&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

This is the way progress should happen. Glad to see Utah has judges that can think.

edited to add:

Btw- I do feel for those living in states with horrible chances of this becoming the law of the land. Unfortunately the path will eventually come down to a SCOTUS decision. 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:14:46 PM by mitch777 »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2013, 05:19:39 PM »
Can't the Virginia courts do the same thing, and not have to wait on the legislature or SCOTUS? 

I need to go back and review the California case.  Didn't prop 8 end up trumping the California Supreme Court?  If so, how does that happen?  I can see challenging a state court decision, but not an initiative ballot trumping it.  I need to go back and review that, because I could be wrong how things went down. 

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2013, 05:27:37 PM »


I need to go back and review the California case.  Didn't prop 8 end up trumping the California Supreme Court?  If so, how does that happen?  I can see challenging a state court decision, but not an initiative ballot trumping it.  I need to go back and review that, because I could be wrong how things went down.

Prop 8 was ruled as unconstitutional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2013, 05:34:48 PM »
I don't believe that the majority should vote on the rights of a minority either.  However, I was asking because of the statement that Virginia would have to wait until the courts forced the state to change their law.  I was curious if the people could force an initiative. 

I did some research and from what I found on Wikipedia, the initiative process is mostly a west coast thing.  Most of the east coast states do not allow citizen driven initiatives. 


Your first statement contradicts everything that followed unless I am somehow reading this wrong.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2013, 05:43:59 PM »
Your first statement contradicts everything that followed unless I am somehow reading this wrong.

They are not mutually exclusive

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 05:48:27 PM »
They are not mutually exclusive
Ok, help me understand. I'm not following.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

 


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