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Author Topic: 16 down, 34 to go...  (Read 8941 times)

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Offline mitch777

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16 down, 34 to go...
« on: November 21, 2013, 06:20:43 PM »
So, now that Hawaii and Illinois have joined the ranks accepting gay marriage who's next?

Ultimately I think the house of cards will fall with a Supreme Court ruling but wondered what you all thought about which states might come next in the mean time.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 07:08:30 PM »
Its a related issue . The sates that are making it hard for the military same sex couples to get their benefits by requiring them to go to a federal facility are unwittingly making the case for the courts to make same sex marriage a federal issue or remedy instead of the sates rights argument .

If the states keep skirting federal law and not recognizing all legal marriages across state lines then there is no other way other than the supreme court to do what the sates refuse and that's rule in favor for full civil rights for gays , lesbians and transgendered citizens .


Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 08:22:24 PM »
Agreed.^ So no guess on state #17 in the mean time?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/11/which_states_allow_gay_marriage_mapped.html

My guess would be Oregon or New Mexico?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:27:18 PM by mitch777 »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 08:26:29 PM »
Agreed.^ So no guess on state #17 in the mean time?

It wont be Alabama . What state do you think is next ?

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 08:28:07 PM »
It wont be Alabama . What state do you think is next ?

see edit of last post. :) Or maybe Saskatchewan. That's a state right? :)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:31:17 PM by mitch777 »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 08:37:21 PM »
Pennsylvania is the on state in the northeast that hasn't passed marriage equality -- mostly because only half of the state is culturally "northeast" -- the central and western parts are more Mid-West culturally. But we also have the most at-risk governor for 2014 elections and his approval numbed are the lowest of any governor, so he will definitely lose to a Democrat. Then the problem is that the PA legislature (General Assembly) has 253 members making it the largest state legislature other than New Hampshire (which doesn't really count because the state's population is smaller than the city I live in). So our legislature is automatically slanted towards rural districts, hence why we're behind our neighbors.

My guess would be for Oregon to be next, maybe Nevada. Pennsylvania's will happen due to some court decision so it's just a matter of having a strong case brought at some point.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 08:41:28 PM »
I also vote for Oregon next.   

What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing? 

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 08:45:12 PM »
I also vote for Oregon next.   

What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing?

*court ordered*
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 08:51:44 PM »
Pennsylvania is the on state in the northeast that hasn't passed marriage equality -- mostly because only half of the state is culturally "northeast" -- the central and western parts are more Mid-West culturally. But we also have the most at-risk governor for 2014 elections and his approval numbed are the lowest of any governor, so he will definitely lose to a Democrat. Then the problem is that the PA legislature (General Assembly) has 253 members making it the largest state legislature other than New Hampshire (which doesn't really count because the state's population is smaller than the city I live in). So our legislature is automatically slanted towards rural districts, hence why we're behind our neighbors.

My guess would be for Oregon to be next, maybe Nevada. Pennsylvania's will happen due to some court decision so it's just a matter of having a strong case brought at some point.

That's my take on PA. I get the feeling several states are in a similar boat.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2013, 12:13:35 AM »
Oregon is a good bet.  But, we are running out of more progressive states.  So, that means a SCOTUS decision.  I just can't imagine having some states with it and others not doing it for 20, 30, 50, and never years. 

I am saddened Indiana repubs are trying to get the anti-gay wagon started again.  They are again proposing a ban.  The city council of New Albany, IN (across the river from us) passed a resolution tonight, calling for the ban to be stopped.  Purdue University has also called for it to be stopped.  I hope more cities let their voices be known.  They know they need a more progressive state (at least on this issue) to attract top people.  If you're married in CA or NY, who would want to move to Indiana or other states where their marriage wouldn't mean anything.  More and more gay couples have kids.  They would fear moving there would leave their kids unprotected.


Offline Theyer

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 03:03:25 AM »
I read an article this week that used statistics to show left leaning ares where attracting like minded newcomers from right wing states and savers. The author saw this as further polarization off the USA . I will continue to search for it , if you know such an article please post it .
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline marcmoral16

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 03:23:05 AM »
Oregon is probably a good choice BUT

I think New Mexico will be next with the courts stepping in due to six counties issuing marriage license to same sex couples.

I predict 25 states will have legalized same sex marriage either through the courts or through state legislature by 2018

Or much sooner if the 2014 midterm elections help better people get in.

Favoriting this thread so I can either come back and stick my foot in my mouth 4 years from now or be so happy because everyone can experience the freedom of equality.

EDITED: Spelling
Tested Positive Jan 16 2013
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July 2014 CD4 450 26% VL <20

Offline wolfter

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2013, 04:50:24 AM »
It won't be Texas.  I'd have to research to find links, but they're defying federal law regarding the entire issue.  Ohio, being a bluish/red state will probably be soon,
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 08:09:28 AM »
What  do you vote for to be the first red state to swing?

All of them -- due to a SCOTUS ruling. 

None of them will rescind their Constitutional Amendments because those folks in favor (or more likely for many, don't care) about same-sex marriage don't have the numbers of passionate folks to come out and vote.  Those against it are more likely to vote. 

M
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 09:32:45 AM »
fyi, Pennsylvania was never one of those states that past an anti-equality constitutional amendment years ago. However they did legislate against it. Also, this just happened this past Monday. And remember, PA was one of the few states with a Republican senator (Toomey) that actually supported EDNA several weeks ago.

So it will either be a court case, or passage of House bill 1647 to repeal PA's defense of marriage act (again, it was not an amendment). You have to remember how many years it took for any bipartisan action on this issue in New York state. The only reason it eventually passed was due to business leaders pressuring a small amount of Republican lawmakers in Albany, threatening not to fund their reelections and asserting that it was bad for business not to pass it (which is true).

So what is needed is similar corporate (local) business pressure in PA, from the likes of (liberal) Comcast CEO Brian Roberts and others in the Philadelphia region, as well as Pittsburgh. Roberts just held a huge fundraiser at his home in Philly just a couple of weeks ago, hosted him over the summer on Martha's Vineyard, and frequently golfs with him. Realistically I can see PA acting on this by 2016.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 10:37:27 AM »
All of them -- due to a SCOTUS ruling. 

None of them will rescind their Constitutional Amendments because those folks in favor (or more likely for many, don't care) about same-sex marriage don't have the numbers of passionate folks to come out and vote.  Those against it are more likely to vote. 

M

 Maybe,  Probably,  but I think one or two will do it before hand (I hope).  I  think Arizona or  Colorado or Nevada has it in them.   They are western  red and not southern red and there is a libertarian slant there. 

 When marriage equality passed here in Washington,  many of the pro gay marriage commercials on tv  were from republicans speaking how it's actually a  Republican issue to support it.   Granted that may not fly in a lot of places.


My partner and I got married this year. While we don't have any plans on moving I would like to be able to have the option odd livingin more than just 16  states.

Offline weasel

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 11:15:59 AM »

  I am surprised Nevada has not passed the bill yet  . But they did get their
  Pot legalized   :)

     I think a state like Oregon will be next .

                                                  Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 01:22:07 PM »
  I am surprised Nevada has not passed the bill yet  . But they did get their
  Pot legalized   :)

     I think a state like Oregon will be next .

                                                  Weasel

 Pot  is still illegal in Nevada ( Colorado and Washington legalized it).

 I'm surprised Nevada hasn't legalized marriage considering how much of their economy is based on tourism and people going to Vegas to get married.  You would think the economics of it would have persuaded then by now.   Especially considering how much$ you spend having a wedding.

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2013, 12:22:27 PM »
Speaking of Republican states.  Six states have refused to follow federal law and provide benefits to same sex spouses in the National Guard

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/us/texas-and-5-other-states-resist-processing-benefits-for-gay-couples.html?_r=0

One state, Oklahoma has gone so far as dropping ALL benefits for National Guard spouses (straight or gay) so they don't have to provide benefits for the gays.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/11/19/2970531/oklahoma-national-guard/

F'ing Bigots

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 03:50:33 PM »
Texas=LOL
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline darryaz

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2013, 08:44:35 PM »
Its a related issue . The sates that are making it hard for the military same sex couples to get their benefits by requiring them to go to a federal facility are unwittingly making the case for the courts to make same sex marriage a federal issue or remedy instead of the sates rights argument .

If the states keep skirting federal law and not recognizing all legal marriages across state lines then there is no other way other than the supreme court to do what the sates refuse and that's rule in favor for full civil rights for gays , lesbians and transgendered citizens .

You are of course referring to Oklahoma where our horrid governor eliminated ALL military spouse benefits just so she could discriminate against same-sex spouses.  (Oh, just noticed that Bug mentioned Oklahoma as well.)

I hope you're right, and a federal remedy becomes law because in this ass-backward, bigoted part of the country a federal ruling is absolutely necessary for same-sex marriage to be recognized (I still hear the N-word regularly).

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 10:18:04 AM »
While Texas and Oklahoma and the remain states of the 34 continue to allow their prejudice to run the show, the states that do allow marriage equality are seeing dollar signs.


http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2022357105_gaymarriagebusinessxml.html

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2013, 01:26:55 PM »
Oregon teen uses Bar Mitzvah speech to support marriage equality, by discussing what "traditional marriage" meant in the Torah.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4363083

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2013, 03:48:36 PM »
Oregon teen uses Bar Mitzvah speech to support marriage equality, by discussing what "traditional marriage" meant in the Torah.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4363083
Great kid! C'mon Oregon, you can do it!
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 02:05:40 PM »
Number 17 is New Mexico. Today's ruling by the NM Supreme Court!  :)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 02:51:35 PM »
Oregon is probably a good choice BUT

I think New Mexico will be next with the courts stepping in due to six counties issuing marriage license to same sex couples.

I predict 25 states will have legalized same sex marriage either through the courts or through state legislature by 2018

Or much sooner if the 2014 midterm elections help better people get in.

Favoriting this thread so I can either come back and stick my foot in my mouth 4 years from now or be so happy because everyone can experience the freedom of equality.

EDITED: Spelling

Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 03:47:31 PM »
Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

LOL!  I say Mississippi. 

The only other likely state is Oregon, right?  I'm trying to think in my head which states could do this soon.  I could possibly see Michigan.  I only say that due to Facebook data of the greatest number of profile changes to the red equality logo.  Michigan was pretty hot.  I realize that doesn't necessarily equate to getting marriage equality.  But, I could see Michigan making a change maybe in 5 years.  Those younger folks will be voting.  I think most (if not all) state supreme courts are posts for life, no?  Well, that will take longer to get governors to appoint judges, who do view this as the equal rights issue it is. 

So, I am left wondering when and if the U.S. Supreme Court will go broad.  We know many states would take another generation-- even 3 or 4 more generations in some. 

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2013, 05:25:44 PM »
Macmoral16 wins the pool.

Ok who's next? Ohio? Oregon? Arizona? Colorado? Florida? Mississippi!

Oregon.

btw bugs, I think I deserve at least an honorable mention. lol.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2013, 05:46:40 PM »
Oregon.

btw bugs, I think I deserve at least an honorable mention. lol.

I'm sorry, I should have scrolled up more.

If we look at the 2012 electoral map.  The blue's left would be:Nevada, Oregon, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Colorado, and Florida (did I miss any?). 

It's really a toss up as to who's next with Oregon maybe with the advantage.



See the comparison between the electoral map and the states that permit the gays to get hitched?  Quite striking really.  I think it speaks volumes as to the social divide in this country.  Really, two countries.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 05:50:58 PM by buginme2 »

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 05:50:54 PM »
Well, the successful lawyers from the Prop 8 case have joined a challenge here in Virginia....  Would be very fitting if a VA case was the one the SCOTUS used to overturn all the same-sex marriage bans -- just like VA vs. Loving case did for the interracial bans.

However -- that would likely take a couple years, so let's hope something quicker happens.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Offline denb45

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2013, 06:04:53 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/19/us-usa-gaymarriage-newmexico-idUSBRE9BI11E20131219

YAY!!!

now if i can get my VA ebenefits, and bob married me, he be set for life even after I was long DEAD  :D

EDITED TO ADD:  17 down & 34 to go......get me to the church on time  8)

DEN

HUGS
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:19:13 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2013, 06:05:37 PM »
That's ok bugs. Just kidding.

I hardly consider some of those states "blue", more purple, so I would be quick to eliminate Florida, Virginia, and Ohio. Not really knowing the inner politics of the remainder too well I would still go with Oregon.

After Oregon and maybe a few more, my guess is that a case will be brought up to the Supreme Court to bring marriage equality to all. (in 2015 or the first half of 2016)

I'd much rather get this obvious conclusion over with so that the gay people in our country can focus more on HIV and how it affects our community and those elected officials that stand in the way.

PS- Mike, I hope you are right although I really don't care what state it stems from as long as it gets done.  :)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2013, 08:58:25 PM »
That's ok bugs. Just kidding.

I hardly consider some of those states "blue", more purple, so I would be quick to eliminate Florida, Virginia, and Ohio. Not really knowing the inner politics of the remainder too well I would still go with Oregon.

After Oregon and maybe a few more, my guess is that a case will be brought up to the Supreme Court to bring marriage equality to all. (in 2015 or the first half of 2016)

I'd much rather get this obvious conclusion over with so that the gay people in our country can focus more on HIV and how it affects our community and those elected officials that stand in the way.

PS- Mike, I hope you are right although I really don't care what state it stems from as long as it gets done.  :)

Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2013, 09:47:48 PM »
Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M

I think there are more states that are more blue than we think. It's up to those who live in them to make a difference when causes are just.

The victory of which you speak was won by a thin margin due to the ludicrous Republican opponents. I'm glad that common sense prevailed in any case, whatever the reason.

I still think Virginia is a purple state. Maybe one of the purplest  (yes, that's a word I think. :).) states in the country.

Time to mix the paint a bit more. You may or may not agree but I believe a heavy dose of cobalt blue is needed.  :)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2013, 09:57:41 PM »
Virginia is more blue than people think.  All 5 statewide elective offices (Governor, Lt. gov, Attorney General & both US Senate seats will be Democrats in Jan). Without gerrymandering, the Repubs would not have a majority in the House of Delegates or an 8-3 margin in the US House

Mitch - I am with you too, any case that does it.  The sooner the better

M

I forgot Virginia.  Yes!  Virginia has really changed.  And, I totally forgot Colorado.  Those two are more likely than say Pennsylvania. 

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 10:48:22 PM »
Unfortunately, Virginia will only join by order of the SCOTUS. 

To undo our Constitutional Amendment a bill would have to pass two legislative sessions before going to a referendum.  With the horrific gerrymandering in place, The republicans will continue to run the House of Delegates for years and years.  The Dems win the statewide "popular vote", but gerrymandering has concentrated them into just a few districts. 
So, unless we change how we draw districts, it ain't changing here except by the SCOTUS -- because we certainly aren't going to get the legislative branch to give up their power to keep power by picking voters.

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2013, 11:46:00 PM »
How is the Virginia Supreme Court stacked?  Do they seem to rule along political lines?  I actually would have to research how our Supreme Court rules.  There haven't been many big cases here that got much news.  I really should know more about ours-- whether they are considered politically divided or not.  It will give me some reading homework. 

It does make me wonder why no one has challenged our ban to our high court.  I think there are a couple suits in the works now, though. 

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2013, 04:22:07 AM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it. 

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2013, 07:58:45 AM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it.

We need an Amendment referendum - and, like I said above, that can't happen until 2 votes by the State Legislature to put an amendment to a vote.  Not happening.......
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2013, 12:49:27 PM »
Do your states have initiatives?  You don't need to wait for SCOTUS if you pass an initiative.  That's how we got pot legalized.  The people wanted it so we voted on it.

I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2013, 12:55:23 PM »
I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.

I agree but those initiatives may be the key to unlock the door for those of us that are in states that will still deny us our rights 100 years from now given the choice . The supreme court will eventually rule in our favor and the states that's used initiatives and won are making it a bit easier for them to get to the conclusion whats good for same is good for all of us . I think .

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2013, 04:34:23 PM »

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2013, 05:03:28 PM »
I agree but those initiatives may be the key to unlock the door for those of us that are in states that will still deny us our rights 100 years from now given the choice . The supreme court will eventually rule in our favor and the states that's used initiatives and won are making it a bit easier for them to get to the conclusion whats good for same is good for all of us . I think .

I hear you but I don't believe the Supreme Court should not even be paying attention to initiatives in regards to rights. The two just don't mix IMHO. Rights are rights. Not something we as a country should ever put up for a vote. Lawsuits that have merit on the other hand... that is what just happened this summer and seems to be working pretty well. Major progress has been happening since. Another properly presented case will suddenly put an end to this discrimination and I think it will happen within a few short years.

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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2013, 05:06:59 PM »
I believe that marriage is a right. An equal right. Rights should not be voted on by an initiative or it becomes a matter of popularity.

I don't believe that the majority should vote on the rights of a minority either.  However, I was asking because of the statement that Virginia would have to wait until the courts forced the state to change their law.  I was curious if the people could force an initiative. 

I did some research and from what I found on Wikipedia, the initiative process is mostly a west coast thing.  Most of the east coast states do not allow citizen driven initiatives. 

Wow!  So much going on lately.  Federal judge strikes down Utah ban.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28099570&nid=148&title=utah-judge-rules-same-sex-marriage-law-unconstitutional&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

Just a matter of time

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2013, 05:09:11 PM »
Wow!  So much going on lately.  Federal judge strikes down Utah ban.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28099570&nid=148&title=utah-judge-rules-same-sex-marriage-law-unconstitutional&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

This is the way progress should happen. Glad to see Utah has judges that can think.

edited to add:

Btw- I do feel for those living in states with horrible chances of this becoming the law of the land. Unfortunately the path will eventually come down to a SCOTUS decision. 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:14:46 PM by mitch777 »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2013, 05:19:39 PM »
Can't the Virginia courts do the same thing, and not have to wait on the legislature or SCOTUS? 

I need to go back and review the California case.  Didn't prop 8 end up trumping the California Supreme Court?  If so, how does that happen?  I can see challenging a state court decision, but not an initiative ballot trumping it.  I need to go back and review that, because I could be wrong how things went down. 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2013, 05:27:37 PM »


I need to go back and review the California case.  Didn't prop 8 end up trumping the California Supreme Court?  If so, how does that happen?  I can see challenging a state court decision, but not an initiative ballot trumping it.  I need to go back and review that, because I could be wrong how things went down.

Prop 8 was ruled as unconstitutional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2013, 05:34:48 PM »
I don't believe that the majority should vote on the rights of a minority either.  However, I was asking because of the statement that Virginia would have to wait until the courts forced the state to change their law.  I was curious if the people could force an initiative. 

I did some research and from what I found on Wikipedia, the initiative process is mostly a west coast thing.  Most of the east coast states do not allow citizen driven initiatives. 


Your first statement contradicts everything that followed unless I am somehow reading this wrong.
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2013, 05:43:59 PM »
Your first statement contradicts everything that followed unless I am somehow reading this wrong.

They are not mutually exclusive

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 05:48:27 PM »
They are not mutually exclusive
Ok, help me understand. I'm not following.
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2013, 05:57:45 PM »
Ok, help me understand. I'm not following.

 I share the opinion that having a majority of people vote on a minority groups rights is inherently wrong.

The reason I inquired if virginia had the initiative process was because bocker mentioned that the only way virginia would legalize marriage would be from a court decision.  I wasn't advocating that they should vote on it, just curious if they had that option (which they don't, from what I found on Wikipedia). 

Which leaves a question...if your state can do a citizen driven initiative to put on the ballot a choice to legalize marriage should u do it?  What if your states legislature isn't moving fast enough to legalize or what if your courts are not taking up the issue?  Do you sit back and wait or do you do it yourself with an initiative? 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2013, 08:35:44 PM »
There is something so satisfying about that ruling in Utah . It was the Mormon's and the wealthy empowered people of Utah that flooded California with money for the Prop 8 initiative . I bet they never thought this could happen on their own doorstep . 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2013, 08:52:27 PM »
 
   Do you sit back and wait or do you do it yourself with an initiative?

You sit back and wait. You seem to state your belief that it is inherently wrong to have a majority vote on the rights of the minority and then you pose this question.

They ARE mutually exclusive concepts.

Thrilled about Utah for the same reasons Jeff.

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Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2013, 09:48:31 PM »
I, too, agree that rights should not be voted on, but seeing as there is no federal right to marriage at this time - I would explore if, it was the fastest avenue.
I get that we shouldn't, but we DO - which is why my marriage is not recognized in VA.
I mean should Maryland and Maine negate their marriage equality because it was done by popular vote??
If only we could live in a world where this issue didn't exist, but alas, we do not (at this point, anyway).

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2013, 10:42:22 PM »
Here is what confuses me and yet another reason I need to educate myself on how the federal justice system works. 

If a federal judge says their ban is unconstitutional, then why is Kentucky's still considered constitutional?  How can a federal judge decide one state's ban is unconstitutional, but that only applies to that state?  Does a federal judge have to rule separately on each state ban?  Would a judge need a case from each state?  One would think if one ban is unconstitutional, then they all are.  Is it left up to SCOTUS to rule on all states?  Is this just how it works and SCOTUS would have to make the broad ruling? 

Utah has appealed, but not before some already got their marriage licenses.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home3/57291925-200/ban-judge-sex-court.html.csp


Offline Habersham

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2013, 11:33:24 PM »
My law classes were a long time ago but here goes:

In each of these cases it is not the Supreme Court making the rulings but the Federal Circuit Court. Each of the Federal Circuit Courts can handle a few states. This is two steps below SCOTUS.

Someone with standing (two gay people who wanted to be married) had to bring suit that their rights were being violated at the local level and it moved through the state court to this level. Few cases ever get to the Supreme court level. Roe vs Wade is an obvious suggestion and that suit had to involve a pregnant women.

I would anticipate the states falling like cards after today's news....

Anyone who has can correct my murky thinking or has citations please do so. 
Because I Can

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2013, 11:50:39 AM »
I, too, agree that rights should not be voted on, but seeing as there is no federal right to marriage at this time - I would explore if, it was the fastest avenue.
I get that we shouldn't, but we DO - which is why my marriage is not recognized in VA.
I mean should Maryland and Maine negate their marriage equality because it was done by popular vote??
If only we could live in a world where this issue didn't exist, but alas, we do not (at this point, anyway).

Me

I don't want to belabor my point any further other than to say that I understand that in some states initiatives (popular vote) can be used to vote on giving or taking away peoples rights. I do not believe that it is a wise way under any circumstances to create law in that regard. I wonder if eventually someone will challenge this concept and bring a case to the SCOTUS?

I'm no constitutional scholar but it seems rights can be impinged upon much too easily by going down that road.

What's done is done in Maine and Maryland. I don't agree at all on how they got where they got. The idea of getting there by "any means" can come back to haunt us as a society down the road.

Initiatives are not always a bad idea but I think the line should be drawn when they pertain to an equal rights issue. There are better avenues to take.

I'm not looking for others to agree. Just my thoughts. :)
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Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2013, 12:57:47 PM »
Initiatives are not always a bad idea but I think the line should be drawn when they pertain to an equal rights issue. There are better avenues to take.

I thought about this a little more and the problem is, IMO, not that folks are voting on rights, but whether or not they are considered rights.  That is really the crux of the issue.  Too many people do not believe that marriage is a right -- just like too many do not believe that healthcare is a right.
I suspect just about anyone would agree that "rights" shouldn't be put to a vote -- the problem is agree on what are "rights" and what are something else........

So -- while the definition of something as a "right" or not goes on - initiatives are something that can be used -- just like a legislative vote (which shouldn't be needed for a "right" either).

M
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2013, 01:40:59 PM »
I thought about this a little more and the problem is, IMO, not that folks are voting on rights, but whether or not they are considered rights.  That is really the crux of the issue.  Too many people do not believe that marriage is a right -- just like too many do not believe that healthcare is a right.
I suspect just about anyone would agree that "rights" shouldn't be put to a vote -- the problem is agree on what are "rights" and what are something else........

So -- while the definition of something as a "right" or not goes on - initiatives are something that can be used -- just like a legislative vote (which shouldn't be needed for a "right" either).

M

Mike,

I agree. Rights are difficult to define. I guess I feel that initiatives are not being used as intended much of the time.

I found this that explains my position better.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/A-long-way-from-the-grassroots-3190565.php

And this from Wikipedia was interesting as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives_and_referendums_in_the_United_States

(funny, I live in a red state. lol)  :)
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Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »
Mike,
I agree.

We agree --- It's a Christmas Miracle........   ;D  just kidding.

Enjoy your nice warm weather -- I hear the cold comes back for Christmas.

Hugs to you and Keneisha......

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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2013, 06:41:42 PM »
We agree --- It's a Christmas Miracle........   ;D  just kidding.

Enjoy your nice warm weather -- I hear the cold comes back for Christmas.

Hugs to you and Keneisha......

M

LOL. ;D

Hugs back to the both of you too!

m.
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Offline JMMich

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2013, 10:58:07 PM »
Here is what confuses me and yet another reason I need to educate myself on how the federal justice system works. 

If a federal judge says their ban is unconstitutional, then why is Kentucky's still considered constitutional?  How can a federal judge decide one state's ban is unconstitutional, but that only applies to that state?  Does a federal judge have to rule separately on each state ban?  Would a judge need a case from each state?  One would think if one ban is unconstitutional, then they all are.  Is it left up to SCOTUS to rule on all states?  Is this just how it works and SCOTUS would have to make the broad ruling? 


The federal judiciary has 3 levels: federal district courts, federal circuit courts of appeals, and the SCOTUS. Each state has at least one district, some have as many as four. The states are then grouped into "circuits" for the circuit courts of appeals. There are currently 11 of them (First Circuit, Second Circuit, etc.), plus the DC Circuit (covering the District of Columbia) and the Federal Circuit (which mainly does things like patent law).

A federal case starts in one of the district courts. A district court's opinion is never a "binding" precedent, i.e., no one else is bound to follow it. It affects the parties to the case only. However, it can be "persuasive" authority that other judges at both the state and federal level can cite to in support of their opinions (or to distinguish the case in front of them, etc.). So, right now, the Utah decision is binding on...Utah. Despite the fact that it makes findings based on constitutional principles.

When the State of Utah appeals the decision, it will go to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals. That circuit covers Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma. If the 10th Circuit upholds the decision of the judge from the District of Utah, and does so on the same/similar reasoning (i.e., constitutional basis), then the decision becomes binding on the entire 10th Circuit and any other bans in any of those other states would pretty much be history.

From the circuit courts of appeals, the next step is the Supreme Court. A party has to file what's called a petition for certiorari. If "cert" is granted, it means the Supreme Court will hear the case. If it is denied, then the decision from the court below stands, but still only covers that circuit. But it then becomes persuasive authority for other circuits. If another circuit (or circuits) has a conflicting ruling, it makes it more likely that SCOTUS will take one or the other of the cases so it can give a definitive ruling one way or the other with nationwide applicability.

The bottom line is that the district courts have somewhat more limited authority, because if every ruling applied nationwide there would be a whole lot of conflicting law; for example, you might have a judge like the one in Utah say that a ban is unconstitutional, while another judge in, say, Alabama, would be of the Antonin Scalia mindset and say there's absolutely nothing wrong with a marriage equality ban. If they both applied nationwide, which one do you follow? And then it would all just end up in SCOTUS's lap anyhow.

To really answer some of your other questions, then, it's going to have to be a piecemeal approach, unless/until SCOTUS finally rules on the merits. By which time hopefully one of Scalia/Thomas/Roberts/Alito has been replaced by a less ass-backwards justice...Justice Kennedy, while having written Romer, Lawrence, and Windsor, is just a bit too flaky to make him a sure vote for the LGBT equivalent of Loving v. Virginia. In the mean time, though, each one that goes down builds a stronger and stronger case that the remaining ones will go down, too. Here in Michigan, we have a challenge to ours that is going to trial early in the new year. The Utah decision is undoubtedly going to be prominently argued by the plaintiffs.

And, of course, this is all in contrast to the decision in New Mexico, which was from the New Mexico Supreme Court. They decided based on the New Mexico state constitution that marriage should be extended to all couples. And they could do so since they didn't have a ban in their constitution. So, unless there's an initiative to amend the New Mexico Constitution to put a ban in (and it passes), the federal courts won't be getting involved at all.

Hope that helps explain it a bit! Kind of a trip down memory lane to my first year of law school. lol
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 11:05:36 PM by JMMich »

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2013, 12:03:07 PM »
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2013, 06:51:06 PM »
The week began with hateful remarks toward gays and so much insensitivity toward black Americans.  I can't believe all the positive news since.  Judge rules on Ohio death certificate case. 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/23/22023189-ohio-must-recognize-gay-marriages-on-death-certificates-judge?lite

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2013, 07:30:54 PM »
Breaking tonight on Christmas Eve--- Federal Appeals court denies state's request to stop marriages.  Merry Christmas Utah! 

Offline randym431

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2013, 04:25:00 AM »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyHCymzs0w

Now this is just plain nasty openly bigotry behavior.
It amazes me why anyone cares who gets married, when getting marriage is such a private personal decision.
It doesn't involve society, the town, the neighborhood, and especially strangers.
Like someone or some group telling you what color of car you can or can not buy.
Who really cares, really? What does it matter to them?
Bottom line... it doesn't.
This attitude of superiority over another, you can't have this because we own it, or you must have our permission and blessing before preceding, is plain ridiculous.

In this youtube from Utah (above), the clerk doesn't even know these women.
Never has known them before, and never will.
What the two women decided to do and when they decide is completely of no personal business to this clerk.
They get the license, they marry, they go about their private life. The end.
This clerk doesn't have to attend the wedding, nor would he be invited.
Other than maybe reading these two women's names in the news papers under "WEDDINGS MARRIAGES", this clerk will never again have any contact what so ever with the two women.
So it amazes me, and I have to ask this clerk, what is this to you?
Who made you the self proclaimed grantor of equality?
And why are you such a dick in the first place, fella?

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »
And leave it to Joe Jervis on his blog to find some levity and humor in the recent events! Sums it up perfectly!!

You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Since2005

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2013, 12:15:42 AM »
This is funny picture. Thanks for sharing.

What an amazing ride in terms of marriage equality in USA. I am glad that I lived to see these days! May be one of these days, we can say 50 down, yes including Utah!!


Offline Hellraiser

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2013, 12:28:15 AM »
I never thought we would see Marriage Equality coming to fruition so soon.  I read an article where the author talked about the supreme court thought they might be buying some time with their first decision, but it looks like it might be back on the docket sooner than they thought.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2014, 06:00:47 PM »
I'm sure many have already heard the news, that a federal judge ruled today that Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.  This does make me think it may not take another decade to have marriage equality the law of the land everywhere.  I may be too optimistic and naive, but this gives me hope things may change much sooner.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/14/oklahoma-gay-marriage_n_4598228.html

Offline Ann

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2014, 08:42:38 AM »
The key to a happy relationship? Be gay. Or childless. Or make tea.

Gay couples are likely to be happier and more positive about their relationships than heterosexuals, according to a major study by the Open University published today.

However, they are less likely to be openly affectionate towards each other Ė holding hands in public, for instance Ė because they still fear attracting disapproval.

The study of 5,000 people Ė 50 of whom were later followed up with in-depth interviews Ė aimed at finding out how modern couples keep their relationships on track through lifeís difficulties.
read more...


One comment on the article (from a gay man in a relationship) that I thought made sense was this: "Honestly, it seems to me that one of the more obvious factors is that men have more in common with men, and women with women. Why wouldn't it (generally, all things being equal) be more challenging to live with someone of the opposite sex?"

I'm reminded of being at my brother's home years ago when his wife did something particularly inexplicable (at least from a man's point of view). When I asked him about it, his memorable reply was ďYou have no idea how lucky you are; Sometimes, it's like living with a different species.Ē

Meanwhile, my partner and I are both marginal housekeepers with similar interests. We can even share ties and socks. And no kids*(!), which by any measure are a source of stress day-to-day, even if they are a blessing in the big picture.

I'm certainly not saying that there aren't millions of happy hetero couples. But it does seem to me that they have some inherent disadvantages right from the start that same-sex couples do not.


I think he may be onto something. What do you folks think?
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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2014, 11:24:59 AM »
I'm sure many have already heard the news, that a federal judge ruled today that Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.  This does make me think it may not take another decade to have marriage equality the law of the land everywhere.  I may be too optimistic and naive, but this gives me hope things may change much sooner.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/14/oklahoma-gay-marriage_n_4598228.html

The judge cited in his ruling that OK had one of the highest divorce rates in the country, so as much as that smug-faced Governor - Mary Falling - wants to cheerlead for family values, the data certainly doesn't support her claims.  Hysterical. 
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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2014, 11:59:20 AM »
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline darryaz

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2014, 12:11:40 PM »
I'm sure many have already heard the news, that a federal judge ruled today that Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.  This does make me think it may not take another decade to have marriage equality the law of the land everywhere.  I may be too optimistic and naive, but this gives me hope things may change much sooner.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/14/oklahoma-gay-marriage_n_4598228.html

It certainly says something that this is happening in two of the three highest-percentage Romney-voting states.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2014, 12:15:56 PM »
If you take Nevada off the "divorce rates by state" list (for obvious "quickie-divorce" reasons) the top ten states are all conservative states. But they also have high marriage rates so really it just kind of means people in such places marry to quickly, or too young, etc. But you can't discuss divorce rates without factoring in economic status so that's why it's lower in a place like the Northeast.
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2014, 12:54:30 PM »


I think he may be onto something. What do you folks think?

Agreed.  As different as my partner and I are we still share a lot of commonalities by both simply being men.  It makes things much more convenient.  Besides if I ever need to borrow a shirt or pair of underwear I have much to choose from!


The marriage debate is over.  I just don't see how the fight can continue in these places.  My partner and I got married this year.  I'm just starting to get tax forms in the mail and have started about how and where we are going to get our taxes done. 

If we were to move to one of these states that's holding their breath and turning blue like a child, they are still at the end of the day going to have to deal with us.  What about taxes? What if we get a divorce? What if one of us gets hospitalized in Florida or Oklahoma?  They are set up for lawsuit after lawsuit and there no argument to deny.  It's already part of US law to recognize licenses from one state to another.

The fighting now is starting to look....sad.  Like someone forgot to tell them the war is over.

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2014, 01:22:58 PM »
The problem is not the next two years, but the four years after that.  Eventually - I agree - that the tide will turn and this will be a simple chapter in history.  Meanwhile, you can rest assured that our Red State friends are banking on this being a wedge issue for SOME in the electorate and no matter whether the platform or party line agrees, disagrees or is non-committal, they CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES BUT TO COURT THESE crazy peopleVOTERS in 2016.

The asylum is in search of a delusional King (or Queen) now that Mr. Christie is doing his best impersonation of a fat lady singing. The visual alone is getting me through this Starbucks knock-off this afternoon. They are anxiously stacking up all the issues that whomever they choose as their candidate will be expected to battle!  Obama Care, Marijuana Laws, Imaginary Voter ID, and the horrible, nasty, contagious plague of GAY MARRIAGE (*gasp*).  You can bet that if my girl Hillary doesn't come through this time that their emboldened King or Queen will work feverishly to satisfy the asylum that elected them and start issuing all sorts of executive orders!  They have to pay back their base - whether they agree with them or not!

It is over. The tide is turning.  You can take to the bank that they are going to give it one more Hail Mary pass before they finally see the light, though.  They are persistant!

Of course, the prospect of Hillary vs. Paul or Ryan is hilarious.  She eats people like that for breakfast. And, hopefully, by then there will be another scandal with some closet-case Republican found looking through the louvers on their closet door.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 01:31:00 PM by Dan0 »
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline tednlou2

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2014, 05:29:57 PM »
Many of my gays have been debating how this judge will rule on the KY case.  He was recommended by Mitch McConnell and appointed by Bush.  But, we've seen repub appointed judges be fair. 

Anyway, I just read where this judge ruled a state agency fired an employee based solely on sexual orientation, and that was unfair and unequal treatment.  So, a glimmer of hope. 

http://wuky.org/post/judge-rules-state-agency-fired-employee-based-soley-sexual-orientation

Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2014, 05:55:11 PM »
Many of my gays


Who are you Kathy Griffin .

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2014, 06:37:46 PM »
Who are you Kathy Griffin .

Ha!  That's who I was thinking of. 

Offline Ann

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2014, 06:40:28 PM »

Many of my gays


Who are you Kathy Griffin .


Ted, I was wondering if you kept them in a hutch.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2014, 10:37:23 PM »
They have those ^^ at the clubs. 

Offline Ann

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2014, 08:51:51 AM »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2014, 06:24:15 PM »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline bmancanfly

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2014, 06:33:42 PM »
There are a lot of soiled undies in TX right about now.
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2014, 06:44:00 PM »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2014, 06:56:40 PM »
Meanwhile today in Texas...

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2014/02/federal-judge-voids-texas-gay-marriage-ban-though-he-delays-order-from-taking-effect-immediately.html/

(have you picked out your wedding dress Wumpellina?)

Texas will secede from the union and call back the confederate army before they allow the fags to marry. Put your dress back Wilimena

Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2014, 07:07:26 PM »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2014, 09:44:32 PM »
The judge in the Kentucky case is due to give his final ruling tomorrow.  He already made the ruling a few weeks ago, which said KY must recognize marriages from other jurisdictions.  I still don't understand why that was just a preliminary ruling and we've been waiting for the final.  There was no stay, so that's not the issue. 

The judge says he will not include a stay, when he makes his final ruling.  The Attorney General is a Democrat.  He has been known in the gay community as being gay himself.  When he ran for Congress a few years back, against the then republican incumbent, issues of his sexuality came up.  He quickly got married to a woman who was seen as his "hag."  It was viewed that he did that to further his political aspirations here in KY.  Many believe he wants to run for senate or governor.  Whether he's secretly gay or not, I hope he does the right thing and not what seems best for his political aspirations. 

And, Eric Holder just told the state Attorneys General that they do not need to defend the bans, as they are discriminatory and unconstitutional. 


http://www.kentucky.com/2014/02/26/3109686/judge-final-order-requiring-ky.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/us-usa-gaymarriage-holder-idUSBREA1O0CG20140225


Offline WillyWump

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2014, 05:47:49 PM »
Texas will secede from the union and call back the confederate army before they allow the fags to marry. Put your dress back Wilimena

SCREW YALLZ ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before I have the right to marry my 20y/o non-english speaking latino twink!

I'm flipping through a Modern Bride magazine right now :-*
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2014, 05:50:52 PM »

I'm flipping through a Modern Bride magazine right now :-*

As he flips through your wallet .

Offline WillyWump

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2014, 06:29:46 PM »
As he flips through your wallet .

It happened ONCE, years ago. ::)
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2014, 06:35:19 PM »
It happened ONCE, years ago. ::)

Hey if he's hot and Twinkie enuf I may hand over my car keys.

Ps. You don't marry those types Wilimena

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2014, 09:46:03 PM »
I'm flipping through a Modern Bride magazine right now :-*

Make sure you skip all the white dresses dear -- you aren't allowed to wear that color, given your sordid past!!  Perhaps a nice "midnight black" -- yes, that will work.

 :-*

M
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2014, 09:51:51 PM »
Make sure you skip all the white dresses dear -- you aren't allowed to wear that color, given your sordid past!!  Perhaps a nice "midnight black" -- yes, that will work.

 :-*

M

I bet he will wear daisy dukes and flip flops and they will have coca cola with peanuts as  appetizers at the reception .




Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2014, 09:56:42 PM »
The final ruling came down here in KY.  The attorney general asked for a 90 day delay either to have more time to consider an appeal or to figure out how to implement.  Many think that was just cover for his future political aspirations and that he will not appeal.  The state did not get involved in the initial case.  However, the judge ignored that request-- so far.  Many think he felt the state had a chance to do that intially and that time had passed to cause a delay. 

Gay couples married in other states are now considered married here.  They can have their names changed if desired.  It also gives rights to property, medical decisions, taxes, and all that good stuff.

Offline wolfter

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #97 on: February 28, 2014, 08:56:12 AM »
The recent lawsuits filed in Ohio show a turn in tide here also.  Who would have ever thought KY or OH would even consider such actions.  :)

I remember my hot youthful days nights spent in the Vanceburg, South Shore, Portsmouth area of the Ohio River.  That was the hottest section of hot, horny, fuck anything guys that I've ever met.  AAH, such memories.  Probably why I'm clinging to that tall, skinny, shirtless, and dumber than rocks types of guys that still get my groin aching.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2014, 12:08:36 AM »
The state asked for 90 days; the judge gave them 20.  Apparently, our attorney general is not delaying to decide to appeal, rather to figure out how to implement.  I think the Bush-appointed judge felt 20 days was more than enough time for that. 

The suit to get rid of our entire ban was filed on Valentine's Day.  I hope that moves quickly.  Oh, the tea-party guy challenging Mitch blames Mitch for this.  Mitch recommended this judge and Bush appointed him.  I am so glad for that.  People cannot say this is some Clinton or Obama liberal, activist judge.  Well, I'm sure they will and believe he must be a dem appointment judge. 

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2014, 12:55:06 AM »
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/viewart/20140228/GPG0101/302280198/ACLU-wants-Wisconsin-gay-marriage-ban-blocked

Things are going so well around the country that the ACLU petitioned the court hearing the challenge to the Wisconsin ban to essentially LIFT the ban before the court date because of the 'likelihood they'll win their case'.

I doubt that will happen but you never know....
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2014, 05:40:30 PM »
Our Attorney General, Jack Conway, followed other states and said he would not appeal the judge's ruling.  He said he cannot defend a ban that is discriminatory.  He also said this would waste taxpayer money, as these bans are all going down.  Cheers to him for doing the right thing. 

However, our democrat governor, Steve Besher, immediately announced he would obtain outside counsel to appeal.  Our governor was looking so good and getting so much national attention for his implementation of ACA.  He just shit on that and I cannot understand why.  Many believe he did this, because he wants to run for Senate, after his term as governor ends.  It would seem he would have gone against "Obamacare," if he was that calculating.  Although, queers getting married is harder for folks to swallow than Obamacare.  Perhaps he is calculating and knew folks would come to love the expansion of Medicaid and the benefits of the ACA, so they would not hold that against him.  He is wasting taxpayer money, as these bans will all go down.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Read--watch-Attorney-General-Conways-same-sex-statement-248381361.html?device=tablet

Modified:  Here is a news report that gives more insight into the governor's reasoning.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/24881042/ky-attorney-general-will-not-appeal-ruling
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 05:45:31 PM by tednlou2 »

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2014, 06:18:12 PM »
Our Attorney General, Jack Conway, followed other states and said he would not appeal the judge's ruling.  He said he cannot defend a ban that is discriminatory.  He also said this would waste taxpayer money, as these bans are all going down.  Cheers to him for doing the right thing. 

However, our democrat governor, Steve Besher, immediately announced he would obtain outside counsel to appeal.  Our governor was looking so good and getting so much national attention for his implementation of ACA.  He just shit on that and I cannot understand why.  Many believe he did this, because he wants to run for Senate, after his term as governor ends.  It would seem he would have gone against "Obamacare," if he was that calculating.  Although, queers getting married is harder for folks to swallow than Obamacare.  Perhaps he is calculating and knew folks would come to love the expansion of Medicaid and the benefits of the ACA, so they would not hold that against him.  He is wasting taxpayer money, as these bans will all go down.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Read--watch-Attorney-General-Conways-same-sex-statement-248381361.html?device=tablet

Modified:  Here is a news report that gives more insight into the governor's reasoning.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/24881042/ky-attorney-general-will-not-appeal-ruling

The VA Attorney General is supportive of marriage equality, but appealed the recent ruling invalidating the VA Constitutional amendment in order to ensure a quicker, final ruling. 
Appealing isn't a bad thing, it helps to get a number of cases moving forward to the SCOTUS, forcing them to rule and, hopefully, striking ALL of these laws.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #102 on: March 05, 2014, 12:37:08 AM »
The VA Attorney General is supportive of marriage equality, but appealed the recent ruling invalidating the VA Constitutional amendment in order to ensure a quicker, final ruling. 
Appealing isn't a bad thing, it helps to get a number of cases moving forward to the SCOTUS, forcing them to rule and, hopefully, striking ALL of these laws.

M

Brian and I were having this discussion tonight.  We were trying to give our governor the benefit of the doubt, and that he may have a good motive in this-- just like you said. 

Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #103 on: March 05, 2014, 09:55:19 AM »
If this is true ( big if ) then the Governors motives seem reasonable to me . Most people who lobby against equality almost always fall back on the its a states rights issue argument and resent the court system getting involved calling it activist judges and other catch phrases .     

Quoted from your link .
Gov. Beshear would not comment on camera, but in a statement said gay marriage is an issue for the U.S. Supreme Court. Beshear says employers, healthcare providers, and government agencies need a clear and certain road map on change, otherwise it could create chaos.

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #104 on: March 05, 2014, 10:38:34 AM »
This may take the wind out of their sails! 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/western-conservatives-urge-appeals-court-to-uphold-marriage

A group of very prominent Western State Conservatives including former Senator Alan Simpson (who has become somewhat of an elder statesman since retiring), Nancy Kassembaum (former Senator Kansas) and others have filed a brief with the 10th Circuit court asking them to stay the course on declaring the ban on marraige in OK and UT unconstitutional.  Their point is that there is support for gay marraige across a wide range of political spectrums. 

It will be difficult for conservatives to claim this as their own cause when significant parts of their establishment are braking with the perceived ranks! 
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #105 on: March 21, 2014, 07:32:32 PM »
Breaking tonight-- Judge strikes down Michigan ban.  The plaintiffs initially were seeking to just give rights for both parents to adopt.  The judge invited them to challenge the entire ban.  The judge ruling in the Kentucky case basically did the same thing, saying he was just waiting for a case on that. 

It does seem like these federal judges were waiting for a glimpse into what SCOTUS would do.  They got that with DOMA and Prop 8, and Scalia's minority opinion that the SCOTUS ruling would legally open the door to this all over the country. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/judge-rules-michigans-ban-gay-marriage-unconstitutional-n59116

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2014, 12:26:57 PM »



Wasting no time, several county clerks opened offices on Saturday to get the ball rolling! Tipped from JoeMyGod.

Wisconsin...surrounded by pro-marriage states (willingly or unwillingly) is standing out more and more like a hillbilly at a country club.
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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2014, 03:20:50 PM »

And, WOW, I just saw this on the same site. Must have missed it. I've realized that the Episcopalian Church is a bit more progressive but I can't recall a time when I saw a missive from any organized religion not only applauding the "judicial activism" but clearly stating their support aside from a "this is how we feel" blurb.  Signd by four Bishops?  Impressive. 


You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2014, 12:21:06 AM »
Today it was Arkansas.  The attorney general has said he supports marriage equality, but feels compelled to appeal. 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/arkansas-judge-gay-marriage-ban-unconstitutional

Our attorney general gave a tearful press conference, saying he could not appeal Kentucky's ruling.  He said it was unconstitutional.  He just announced a run for governor, by the way.  So, props to him for not doing the political thing.  However, our governor hired outside counsel to appeal the decision.  The governor's argument, which was just made public, was that it hurts procreation and will hurt the population.  Our governor is a democrat and has championed Obamacare.  Many speculate he may run for Senate, after his term as governor ends.  His procreation argument is so flimsy, that I can't help but wonder if he appealed for political reasons, while really not wanting the state to win the appeal.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-governor/2014/05/09/beshear-lawyers-say-gay-marriage-threatens-kentucky-birth-rates/8891661/

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2014, 07:13:03 PM »
Today it was Arkansas

There are gays in Arkansas?

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2014, 10:31:46 PM »
And just in over at www.joemygod.com

Via press release:

In an effort to change Alaskaís definition of marriage, five same-sex couples have filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court against Gov. Sean Parnell and other state officials. The lawsuit claims that an amendment added to the Alaska Constitution in 1998, defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, violates their due process and equal protection under the 14th.

Four of the plaintiff couples hold marriage licenses from other states that allow same-sex marriage. One couple is seeking the right to marry in Alaska. ďUnder current Alaska law, a couple who marries in Seattle and returns home to Alaska are married in the eyes of the law when their plane lifts off from SeaTac, but are legal strangers when the flight touches down in Alaska,Ē said Heather Gardner, one of three Alaska attorneys representing the plaintiffs.

ďNo Alaskan is a second class citizen,Ē she said. ďWe are taking a stand because marriage should be available to all loving couples,Ē said Matthew Hamby one of the plaintiffs who married his partner Christopher Shelden last year in Utah. ďItís important to us that our family is recognized by the State of Alaska and that we have the same rights and privileges as others."

North Dakota and Montana are now the only states without marriage equality lawsuits. (Via JMG reader Christopher)



Below are two of the plaintiffs, Hamby & Shelton



If you listen very carefully, you may be able to hear the screams of a well-known snow billy!
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2014, 09:13:07 PM »
Idaho ban struck down.  They are appealing. 

Has there been a court decision that has upheld a ban recently?  Seems rather procedural at this point. 

What a waste of time and money and tears.  The US Supreme court failed miserably by not ruling broadly. 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2014, 11:03:05 PM »
Idaho ban struck down.  They are appealing. 

Has there been a court decision that has upheld a ban recently?  Seems rather procedural at this point. 

What a waste of time and money and tears.  The US Supreme court failed miserably by not ruling broadly.

I just saw the Idaho news.  Seems like these cases come in pairs.  These are happening faster than I thought.  I'm thinking we could see marriage equality the law in most, if not all states, by 2016 or 2017. 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2014, 06:09:50 PM »
A federal judge has rule Kentucky must pay the plaintiffs in our recent marriage equality case $70,000 for legal expenses. 

http://www.wave3.com/story/25517249/kentucky-ordered-to-pay-70k-in-gay-marriage-case


Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #115 on: May 16, 2014, 12:34:31 PM »
I tried to find the appropriate Bianca Del Rio photo for this - but there are so many to choose from!  After 95 years in business, an Idaho wedding business says they will close their doors rather than *gasp* allow same-sex couples to use their facility/services.

Basically.....'NEED HELP PACKIN'?"

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/may/15/ministers-diverge-in-opinion-on-lifting-of-idahos/


You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #116 on: May 16, 2014, 10:41:14 PM »
On Monday Oregon will become the next state to legalize

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2014, 09:59:24 AM »
I tried to find the appropriate Bianca Del Rio photo for this - but there are so many to choose from!  After 95 years in business, an Idaho wedding business says they will close their doors rather than *gasp* allow same-sex couples to use their facility/services.

Basically.....'NEED HELP PACKIN'?"

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/may/15/ministers-diverge-in-opinion-on-lifting-of-idahos/




This is called cutting your nose off to spite your face.  Like are they seriously thinking anyone will care?

"We would have stayed in business for another 100 years but those gays ruined it for everyone!"

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2014, 11:56:20 AM »
See, this is why you don't hear that much from Iowa these days other than the 'bat-shit crazy tea-partiers' about this issue.  Why?  Because, honestly, most people in Iowa just don't care. The ones that DID have come to the conclusion that their moral indignation could be massaged by economic benefit. 

They're making a haul.  Plain and simple.  No one does weddings like "the gays" - you don't find decorations from Wal-Mart, bridesmade dresses from "DEB" and surely not a keg of cut-rate beer (unless its for the visiting guests who actually drink that stuff).  They spend money and a hell of a lot of it. That has not gone unnoticed, particular in the border communities of the states where it is allowed next to a state that still has a ban.  I know at least a dozen people who made the trek in Wisconsin over to McGregor & Marquette, IA to 'tie the knot'.  Not only did they bring their friends with them but they stayed somewhere nicer than a Motel 6 and drank the living hell out of that hotel bar with conconctions that flamed, coagulated and - at the very least - took a corkscrew to open. 

And, really, who knows. Perhaps a bit of style will leach its way into these towns and the next 'strawberry festival' will be a little more chic!

So, closing their doors after 95 years might be a nice mountain to die on for them, but in the end when they see opportunity knocking, I don't think they'll be able to help themselves.

You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2014, 10:46:09 AM »
On Monday Oregon will become the next state to legalize

About 24 hours to go. I haven't heard ONE word on this from anyone in Portland. In fact, I've been newspaper poor for the last week and working so much, that the only way I knew this was the situation and Monday was G-Day was right here and Bug posting. Either no one in this town reads the news or they just don't see end times being thrust upon us!

You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #120 on: May 19, 2014, 01:27:16 PM »
90 minutes and counting for the judges ruling.....could Oregon be next?

NOM filed for a last minute stay in the decision citing the same bile they've produced in other states....amazing that you can be 2 million in the red and still have money and resources for this attempt. We'll know soon!



You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #121 on: May 19, 2014, 02:57:34 PM »


And just in......one step closer!
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #122 on: May 19, 2014, 03:09:30 PM »
Oregon ban struck down.....add one more to the list!


http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/blogs/BlogtownPDX/#a12506313
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline marcmoral16

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2014, 03:23:03 PM »
How many states are we at now! Welcome my Oregon brothers and sisters to marriage equality for ALL!!!
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Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
How many states are we at now! Welcome my Oregon brothers and sisters to marriage equality for ALL!!!


Funny, we've seen this map before

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #125 on: May 19, 2014, 04:46:22 PM »
Congrats to Oregon!  I was just reading an article about it.  Here is something I did not know.  I can't believe I did not know this.  Wisconsin makes it illegal for gay couples to marry elsewhere and continue to live in the state.  There's a fine and jail time.

How it the world could that ever be constitutional, even if ya thought a state could decide whether to grant gay marriages or not?  That is being super-duper evil.  Am I the only one who missed this law? 

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/gay-marriage-states-legal-map

Offline buginme2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2014, 05:16:10 PM »
That's a blue law.

It may be on the books but is completely unenforceable.  I couldn't imagine a prosecutor ever trying to charge.   

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #127 on: May 19, 2014, 07:10:25 PM »
This one of these old archaic laws that WI has had on the books for decades...not even certain where or why it came about. It was long before gay marriage was even considered. In fact, it never even hit the news until someone decided to go digging and found it there, and reasoned that it was applicable with the gay marriages being allowed in the border states. It never made news until Minnesota did their vote.

There are quite a few:

http://www.bitoffun.com/stupid_laws_Wisconsin.htm

Thankfully, I never tried to produce nuclear weapons in the city limits of Sun Prairie but I do recall my grandparents running across the WI/IL border to purchase contraband Oleo (margarine). Of course, back then it was sickly white in color with a yellow gel capsule that you had the break and knead through the concoction so that it looked like butter.

We seem to be very good at putting stupid laws on the books but not so good at removing them.

Meanwhile in Texas......'Up to a felony charge can be levied for promoting the use of, or owning more than six dildos.'  How many out there would be jailed for that??
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:30:48 PM by Dan0 »
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2014, 02:59:46 PM »
***BREAKING*** U.S. judge strikes down same-sex marriage ban in Pennsylvania

Entire US Northeast now has gay marriage equality.

U.S. judge strikes down same-sex marriage ban in Pa.

HARRISBURG - A federal judge on Tuesday struck down Pennsylvania's ban on same-sex marriages, a landmark ruling that could clear the way for the Commonwealth to become the 17th state to legalize gay marriage.

The decision by U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III marked the first and most significant to date in a series of court challenges to the state's 1996 ban.

"By virtue of this, ruling, same-sex couples who seek to marry in Pennsylvania may do so, and already married same-sex couples will be recognized as such in the Commonwealth," he wrote in the 39-page opinion.

It was not immediately clear if Gov. Corbett, whose administration had defended the law, would appeal the decision.

But advocates were poised to act immediately on the ruling. In Philadelphia, Register of Wills Ron Donatucci, whose office issues marriage licenses, immediately ordered his office to stay open an extra hour Tuesday, until 5:30 p.m., for any couples hoping to take advantage of the ruling.

The lawsuit, Whitewood v. Wolf, was brought by 23 plaintiffs who said Pennsylvania's law violates the constitution by excluding same-sex couples from the same legal benefits and protections as heterosexual couples.

A trial was initially expected this summer. But lawyers on both sides of the case had told Jones the evidence and testimony wouldn't expand beyond what they had already presented in arguments and filings, and urged the judge rule based on them.

"The issue we resolve today is a divisive one," the judge wrote. "Some of our citizens are made deeply uncomfortable by the notion of same-sex marriage. However, that same-sex marriage causes discomfort in some does not make its prohibition constitutional. Nor can past tradition trump the bedrock constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection."

In the 10 months since the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the federal defense of marriage act and the Pennsylvania law suit was filed, marriage bans have fallen in states across the nation.

Courts at the state and federal levels in 12 states have found in favor of same-sex marriage. Some courts overturned same-sex marriage bans, while others allowed recognition of marriages conducted in other states.

The case before Jones, a 58-year-old Republican appointed in 2002 by President George W. Bush, was one of seven same-sex marriage cases under consideration by courts in Pennsylvania.

The state Supreme Court is considering an appeal by Montgomery County Register of Wills L. Bruce Hanes to a Commonwealth Court decision barring him from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

In a March Quinnipiac University poll of Pennsylvania voters, 57 percent of respondents said they supported a law allowing same-sex couples to marry, while 37 percent opposed it. The poll results trended along party lines: 74 percent of Democrats supported same-sex marriage, while 59 percent of Republicans opposed it.

In the Whitewood case, lawyers for the plaintiffs alleged that Pennsylvania's Defense of Marriage Act, along with its refusal to marry same-sex couples or recognize such marriages from other states, violated a fundamental right to marry as well as the Constitution's equal-protection clause.

The state's law not only bans same-sex marriage, it specifies that the state cannot honor such marriages from other states.

The suit contended the state had no legitimate interest in banning same-sex marriage, and that the ban disparaged and injured lesbian and gay couples and their families by denying them a long list of legal and financial protections afforded to heterosexual couples.

Attorney General Kathleen G. Kane, whose office had declined to defend the law, hailed the groundbreaking decision.

"This is an historic day," she said in a statement. More importantly, today brings justice to Pennsylvanians who have suffered from unequal protection under the law because of their sexual orientation. When state-sponsored inequality exists, citizens are deprived of the full protections that the Constitution guarantees. Our Commonwealth progressed today and so have the hopes and dreams of many who suffer from inequality."
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2014, 11:06:16 PM »
Miss P, are you having a big wedding or something more intimate? 

When the judge here ruled KY must recognize marriages from out of state, he indicated he was waiting for a full marriage equality case to come.  On Valentine's Day, the lawyers in the out of state case filed suit for full marriage equality.  As fast as these are moving, we may see that ruling by fall. 

Offline mecch

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #130 on: May 21, 2014, 10:57:07 AM »
PA, NJ, NY are both North East and Mid Atlantic, right?
Western PA seems like East North Central but I know not officially. 
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Offline wolfter

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #131 on: May 21, 2014, 11:26:11 AM »
PA, NJ, NY are both North East and Mid Atlantic, right?
Western PA seems like East North Central but I know not officially.

Western PA tends to be lumped in with the midwest. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #132 on: May 21, 2014, 11:35:45 AM »
Philadelphia, including suburbs is exactly like NJ and the NYC metro area and DC metro, as we are right where NJ and Delaware meet and have a nominal seaport leading to the Atlantic.

Then the area stretching from York/Lancaster (Amish country) up to Allentown/Easton is post-industrial but trends left of center. Once you enter the central mountains you are in Appalachia and past that indeed Pittsburgh has always been the entrance to the Midwest -- literally so historically as it was settled from that point.

But you know, upstate New York is similar but it's become more liberal in the past decade. It used to be extremely conservative.

Otherwise remember that New England and the Mid-Atlantic are two subsets of the larger US Northeast, with a population equivalent to the UK and a larger GDP per capita. These days I would include Virginia as part of the Mid-Atlantic, but only in the past decade, and only due to the overwhelming influence financially and politically of northern Virginia. And this will become more firm 10 years further down the road.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #133 on: May 21, 2014, 05:34:46 PM »
After remaining completely silent for 24 hours Republican Gov. Corbett says he won't appeal decision striking PA's same-sex marriage ban

... it's an election year for him after all, and he's got to seem moderate even if his poll numbers are abysmal already. Must be hard for a man who once compared gay marriage to incest!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #134 on: May 21, 2014, 11:53:58 PM »
Young boy meets a gay couple for the first time.  This just proves what we already know-- hate and intolerance is taught.

http://youtu.be/hKzSoStsQ5U

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2014, 09:17:16 AM »
Young boy meets a gay couple for the first time.  This just proves what we already know-- hate and intolerance is taught.

http://youtu.be/hKzSoStsQ5U

That was so cute! :)

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #136 on: June 06, 2014, 05:19:42 PM »
This just in from the TED-TV newsroom-- Wisconsin ban ruled unconstitutional.  These are going down faster than a republican congressman at a glory hole.

Modified to add link:

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/breaking-news/Judge-overturns-Wisconsins-same-sex-marriage-ban-262161101.html?lc=Tablet

Oh, and this link about North Dakota's ban has now been challenged.  I didn't know that was the last state to have its ban challenged.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/06/north-dakota-same-sex-marriage-ban/10082033/
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 05:22:55 PM by tednlou2 »

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #137 on: June 06, 2014, 05:41:46 PM »







The teabaggers in Northern Wisconsin are probably stocking the root cellars preparing for End Times!  Scooter (Scott) Walker started about three weeks ago saying how he was 'evolving' on the issue.  He's evolving because he's now neck and neck with a politcal novice for his second term election - her only claim to fame is that her family owns TREK bicycle. 
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #138 on: June 06, 2014, 05:45:03 PM »
I will be so happy when Gay marriage is legal everywhere so that my decision to never do it will have teeth .   

Offline randym431

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #139 on: June 07, 2014, 09:33:21 AM »
Well I don't know, about all the "STAY" motions.
Seems to me that the STAY places all this into limbo.
Yes, maybe it will go to the US high court, but it doesn't need to.
Seems we are doing just fine with state courts knocking down ban after ban.

But the STAY? Limbo?
I would think the appeal process of all the decisions knocking down the ban(s) could be swifter than we are experiencing.

I am questioning, why the STAY from the justices?
For I know many of these justices are very conservative, and many appointed by republicans. So while the justices probably personally DO NOT agree, and believe marriage S/B between a man/woman, the law proves different.
And I would guess many of these justices knocking down state marriage bans have followed the law to the tee, but it has left a sour taste in their mouth.

The STAY process I do not understand because I would think appealing the ruling should and would be a swift process when you consider DUR PROCESS OF LAW and all that legal lingo. That once a STAY is in place, that the court would or should move rather rapidly to a final decision resolving the appeal challenge(s).
But that does not seem to be the case.
I see ulterior motives in following the law to knock down ban after ban, yet granting a STAY thus placing that ruling into a never ending limbo status.

A STAY is fine and dandy, BUT... then what?
Why do we have so many states in limbo with seemingly little if any movement towards resolving the appeal?
Surly UTAH could and should be settled once and for all. At least by now?
Didn't the 10th circuit court of appeal hear the UTAH state arguments months ago?
Can the court take forever to decide a final ruling?
Seems that is exactly what is now happening....

Then... if the state loses and wishes to go further to the US high court, so be it, but in the meantime let the appeal(s) be resolved and the marriages begin. Damn it!

To me, this STAY business is just a delay tactic by justices that HAD to follow the law and strike down state bans, but are doing whatever legally they can to delay a final outcome.
Maybe with hopes of a new republican congress come November 2014 might pass a US constitutional ban against SS marriage.
And if not a republican congress in 2014, then a republican congress along with a republican president come 2016.
The waiting game.

Despite what state courts rule, and despite the states that have already allowed SS marriage, and despite what the US high court might rule, a fully republican controlled government COULD EASILY impose a constitutional amendment to ban SS marriage nation wide. Period!
That COULD happen.
And if you don't think the republicans have that on their back burner, think again.
All they need is a republican controlled house, senate, AND republican president.
And bye bye marriage equality. Here, there, and everywhere.

Ps. I wouldn't put too much hope in the polling trends that marriage equality has hit mainstream and supported by a majority.
A poll is one thing. Republicans owning all branches of government quite another.

Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #140 on: June 07, 2014, 11:41:05 AM »
Stays are not all the uncommon and the appeals process is almost never speedy.  things are moving -- the VA appeal has been heard and a ruling is pending.  Of course, it would then be appealed to the SCOTUS by whichever side loses. 

given the glacial pace of our justice system, I actually think things are moving much faster than I expected when it comes to marriage equality.

Mike
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Offline randym431

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #141 on: June 07, 2014, 12:36:45 PM »
Well I just hope the community is up for the fight.
Look at civil rights.
We thought that was settled back in the 1960's yet today we see newly energized attacks to turn back the clock.
If and when republicans gain control of all three branches, and that day will come, expect a constitutional amendment to be their number one agenda.
Be it 2016, 2020, 2024, etc etc.
The only way we can protect marriage equality, and especially after a favorable ruling from the US high court, would be that old get out and march in the streets battle cry.
Exact as was done back in the 60's.
If the community is not up for that when the need comes, then forget about your marriage equality.
The right wing fundamentalist people do not want to lose.
As with every religious based war, they will never concede defeat.
And for them this is a religious battle. Never question that.
The battle will continue for decades to come.
We can win, unless we become complacent and expect others to wage our battle.
Then we will lose.

My point?
I really don't know if the community is capable of a 1960's type of battle.
Marching, determined, insistent on winning.
We all celebrate the victories, but too often lack the ability with protesting the losses.
I don't want to ride the wave of ups and downs.
I would hope the community would and could pave their own path.
Just because the courts are on our side is no guarantee.
We need to forge to ensure our own guarantee.
That will be our true test.

Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #142 on: June 07, 2014, 01:12:59 PM »
I'm not certain if we particularly need a sixties style agenda on this. Since the 1960's....hell, even since the 1980's...things have changed a lot.  Back then, we were a curiosity to some, a vulgar reality to others, and the only face that was put out there was usually an outrageous Drag Queen.  Now, the outrageous Drag Queen has a top rated show, is worth millions and is talked about at the family supper table.  Things HAVE changed!

It's much more difficult to be so vehemently opposed to something that is part of your day to day life.  The gays are 'everywhere!'.  Ellen lead them all out of the closet and now you can't turn on TV without one of 'them' being front and center.  And.....instead of marching they're now contributing to campaign war chests. This matters.  Yes, some folks are going to be outraged no matter what and if it weren't the gays, it would be something else that got their lace underwear in a twist.

Justice Roberts gave his pound of flesh on the issue with the Windsor case.  They have other things they are actively pursuing. While we were all rejoicing at the Windsor verdict, Robert's basking in his newfound 'less than evil' light, no one really commented on gutting the Voting Rights Act.  I'm not saying that we don't have to be diligent, but there are different and more effective ways to fight now than the 60's.
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

"Honey, you should never ask advice from a drunk drag queen who has a show to do." - JG

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Offline bocker3

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #143 on: June 07, 2014, 11:21:17 PM »
I don't know randy -- you are hitting me as overly dramatic.  Once marriage equality is reached, it isn't going to be pulled back.  Not sure what battle march you want us to go on here?  The fight is in the courts, it appears like victory is coming.  My marriage is already "legal" in 20 states and recognized by the feds.  There will be no US Constitutional Amendment -- too onerous a process and it simply isn't going to happen.  In fact, within a year of a SCOTUS ruling (assuming it goes our way), there will be little more talk of this.
Vigilant? sure...  Paranoid, I don't think so

Mike
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Offline Dan0

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2014, 11:38:21 PM »
And somewhere in Wisconsin......certainly not completely unexpected.....but real turd-ish none-the-less:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/us-appeals-court-wont-rule-on-gay-marriage-until-at-least-wednesday-b99288108z1-262532401.html

Overturned by a judge, denied a stay by the courts and embraced by the county clerks and it's still not good enough for Teabagger Walker and his minions.  They simply will not accept the forms!  *poof*  End of story.
You can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world, and there's still going to be somebody who hates peaches.

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Offline zach

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2014, 11:41:24 PM »
harvey milk stamps?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #147 on: July 01, 2014, 01:44:44 PM »
This was the case filed on Valentine's Day.  This judge had already ruled couples married out of state should be allowed to marry.  Brian and I got to meet the couples in the case.  One is an Eagle Scout, like Brian is. 

I kept saying why don't gay couples file suit.  Why don't we?  When I would mention that, people would say too expensive and wrong time.  Of course, SCOTUS ruling on DOMA and Prop 8 had a huge impact.  These federal judges saw their rulings would have a good chance of not being knock down.  So, I'm glad these couples did it. 

If our Dem governor appeals this, then he is just playing politics.  Some have said he appealed it, in order to get it to the appeals court.  That is set for August 6th, when a 3-judge panel will hear KY, OH, TN, and MI cases.  Many said our governor was purposely trying to lose, as his filings were so flimsy and ridiculous.  Threat to birth rate was his only argument, really.  He does have a son running for office and he may want to run for Senate after his term as gov comes to end. 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #148 on: July 09, 2014, 09:30:23 PM »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2014, 02:53:53 PM »
Appeals court upholds decision overturning Virginiaís same-sex marriage ban

A federal appeals court panel on Monday upheld a decision that said Virginiaís ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.

By a 2 to 1 vote, a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit in Richmond said that the fundamental right to marry is guaranteed under the Constitution regardless of sexual orientation.
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2014, 04:34:04 PM »
I would bet that this will all be solved through the courts before the 2016 elections. What I'm not sure about is how will the Republicans handle it.
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2014, 04:51:20 PM »
I would bet that this will all be solved through the courts before the 2016 elections. What I'm not sure about is how will the Republicans handle it.

I do not think moderate Republicans will say too much at all now that they know the tide has turned and its not anything good in it for them . Ted and Michelle will keep using hate speech because that is what their base wants to hear . 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #152 on: July 28, 2014, 05:01:51 PM »
I do not think moderate Republicans will say too much at all now that they know the tide has turned and its not anything good in it for them . Ted and Michelle will keep using hate speech because that is what their base wants to hear .

Michelle won't be around beyond this year. At least not in office anyway. I think she will try to find a way to follow Sarah's lead. Lot's of hot air to remain in the public eye hoping to cash in. I will miss her brilliant insights if she decides to retire quietly. You DO know that Ebola is coming our way from those pesky South American children pouring into our borders. Michelle knows this to be true.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 05:04:09 PM by mitch777 »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #153 on: July 28, 2014, 08:26:20 PM »
link

Following todayís historic ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper announced that he would stop defending the stateís marriage equality ban.

Todayís ruling applies to the entire Fourth Circuit, which includes North Carolina, Maryland, South Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia. There are currently two cases in North Carolina challenging the state's marriage ban.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #154 on: July 29, 2014, 12:42:32 AM »
Ours is going before our federal appeals court next week.  That court handles KY, TN, MI, and OH. 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #155 on: July 29, 2014, 08:48:26 AM »
I don't want to say that these court issues don't matter, they do -- but on a practical level they will issues stays and couples will not be able to marry until the SC decides to take a case, and then of course it depends on the ruling.
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Offline mitch777

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #156 on: July 29, 2014, 10:38:16 AM »
I don't want to say that these court issues don't matter, they do -- but on a practical level they will issues stays and couples will not be able to marry until the SC decides to take a case, and then of course it depends on the ruling.
I'm confused once again. The link you last provided has a map to click on. The ban of gay marriage has been challenged in every state, including South Carolina. I know they will be dragging their feet as long as possible in any case.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #157 on: July 29, 2014, 11:32:11 AM »
What exactly are you confused about, dearie?
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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #158 on: July 30, 2014, 10:27:30 AM »
What exactly are you confused about, dearie?

Nevermind. Just a moment of airhead syndrome or maybe a touch of the HAND. :P lol.
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Offline wolfter

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #159 on: July 30, 2014, 10:54:19 AM »
This is will be playing out with our upcoming gubernatorial race in OH.  Kasich adamently disagrees with same sex marriage and he's up against someone who does (albeit currently the under-dog) 
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #160 on: August 07, 2014, 01:01:59 AM »
Oral arguments were held today in the 6th Circuit, which heard cases from KY, TN, OH, and MI.  It is my understanding 2 of the 3 judges are Bush appointments and one a Clinton.  I've read one of the Bush judges outraged republicans, when deciding in favor of President Obama's healthcare law. 

It was reported one Bush appointed judge (think a Bush judge) said, "The sky hasn't fallen, with the other pro-marriage rulings."  If anyone is interested, here is a link to the audio of each state's case before the court today.  Btw, we know one of the plaintiffs in the case.  He and my better half have being an Eagle Scout in common.  He had been very engaged in the Scout gay issues. 

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/_breaking_listen_here_audio_of_all_marriage_cases_in_6th_circuit_court_released

Correction:  The judge who said that was the Clinton appointee. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 01:05:16 AM by tednlou2 »

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #161 on: August 07, 2014, 02:08:46 AM »
I realized I didn't discuss how I thought the KY case went.  The lawyer for the state didn't seem to have her heart into it.  She came off like a bored student forced to read before the class.  Her whole argument was about the state has an interest in keeping marriage between heterosexuals for procreation, which she says boosts the economy.  She said gay couples can have children by surrogate or artificial insemination.  One judge kept interrupting, to try and ascertain how the state believes denying marriage to gay couples will help with procreation.  She (the judge) repeatedly said many heterosexual couples choose or unable to have kids.  She said there are many, who have children outside of marriage. 

Many have speculated whether our Dem governor was playing politics-- hiring outside counsel to appeal, while not really wanting to win.  The procreation argument had many talking, saying it was an absurd argument.  The lawyer for the defendants did a decent job.  She sounded nervous.  She seemed like she was more together.  I think she should have pointed out that if the state believes having children is good to "further the human race" and to boost the economy and the state acknowledges that gays can have children, then gays allowed to marry would serve the state's interest in having stable families. 

Anyway, very interesting to hear the arguments.  I haven't gotten to the other states yet. 

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #162 on: August 13, 2014, 06:49:19 PM »
Federal judges refuse to stay decision striking Va. same-sex marriage ban

A federal appeals court panel refused to stay its decision striking Virginiaís ban on same-sex marriage Wednesday, which means the unions could start next week absent further judicial action.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #163 on: August 13, 2014, 07:27:36 PM »
Good for those judges. 

We are still waiting for the decision from the 6th Circuit.  It could come at any time.  That republican appointed judge has been hard to read.  He made arguments that gay parents can be just as good or better.  He said it doesn't seem very difficult for a state to add gays to those allowed to marry.  But, he also said it seems this should be decided by the democratic process, even if attitudes change slowly. 

I guess all the child/procreation arguments dominated the hearings of KY, OH, MI, and TN, as those states used procreation as their key argument.  But, I kept thinking, "What does having kids have to do with having equal protection under our constitution?"  What if studies showed kids of gay parents did worse?  So what?  Although, we know kids do just as well and even better, according to a recent study.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 16 down, 34 to go...
« Reply #164 on: Yesterday at 04:08:20 PM »
SCOTUS has stepped in and blocked marriages in Virginia.  As I understand it, they have to hear the case, or their stay will expire and couples allowed to marry again.  It seems they plan to take up marriage equality next year. 

Justice Ginsburg recently said they would not duck this issue, like the court did civil rights.  She hinted to a case before the court by 2015--2016 at the latest. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/20/gay-marriage-virginia-supreme-court/14282579/

 


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