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Author Topic: Multiple oral sex exposures  (Read 4323 times)

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Offline jdukscared

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Multiple oral sex exposures
« on: October 25, 2006, 06:20:43 AM »
Dear all and moderators, thank you for your advice in advance! I have been reading this forum for a while and decided to post my worries about HIV transmission.  I am going in for a full check up tomorrow at my local GUM clinic, but Im real scared....and the anxiety is too much.... and your help would be very appreciated for some information.

Im a heterosexual male, age 27 living in London. For the past 6-7 years I have been regularly visiting massage parlours, on and off, with girls of different nationalities and origins.I have never performed unprotected penetrative sex (I dont remember condom breaking of comming off, otherwise I would have noticed and felt it right?). Many occasions I have given unprotected cunnilingus (30+) and received unprotected fellatio from these girls(20+) some lasting 1+ to 10+ minutes.

For the past few years I have been worried about HIV infection and I dont know why I kept going to these places and it feels like its been a living nightmare but have been so scared to test cause of the result. I called the Terrence Higgins Trust helpline and they were helpful and said the chance of HIV transmission is small through cunnilingus but possible.

I have not visited any of these places for the past year and have not had sex and much less visits 1-2 years preceeding and decided to stop once and for all and put these worries behind me.

I dont rememenber having specific HIV infection symptoms, had Tonsilitis 2+ and 4 years ago respectively and they scared me because I thought it was HIV infection (even though it could have been, was on antibiotics). Never had any rashes or vomiting for what I remember. 

What has really been worrying me for the last year from around about this time last year is that I fell ill with a high fever(dont know if I had swollen lymph nodes), lots of aching muscles, which lasted for about a week and recovered, which was followed by a mild cough and phlem for a couple of days or so, dont remember having a sore throat.  No sneezing or running nose for what I remember (could these be ARS symptoms?).  I know symptoms are not indicative of HIV infection but I cant help thinking about it.

1) How would you rate my risks of HIV from my exposures?And if some of parlour workers I visited were immigrants from Thailand and other asian countries where there is a high prevelance of STD+HIV. THT told me that in his opinion HIV prevelace in parlours is probably lower than the general population because they are so well trained with high condom usage. what is your opinion on this?

2) Do you know HIV prevelance in UK massage parlours and there been any documented cases of catching HIV from CSW and exposures I describe? I never had any sores in my genital area, although once a couple of years ago I got a strong burning sensation during urination, and I dont remember having a discharge, which lasted for about two days and went away ( what kind of infection would this be? is it normal to have these, perhaps due to masturbation?

3) My oral health is generally good, been to dentist once no bleeding gums but I have recently noticed receeding gums, went to the dentist and she said nothing about the gums and they looked normal. I also sometimes have dry lips and may have caused cracks (dont remember expo)in the lips exposing me to STD including HIV.Whats is the risk?

Sorry for the long post, whats is your opinion about the risks of my exposures and would you be surprised if I get a HIV+ result.  I look forward to your responses. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards






Online Ann

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2006, 07:49:35 AM »
jd,

1. People are not risky, but certain practices are such as unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Getting a blowjob is not a risk for hiv infection at all.

Going down on a woman is not a risk either. It may be a theoretical risk, but it's also a theoretical risk that a meteorite will fall on your head the next time you leave your house. Not likely to happen, but not totally outside the realm of possibility. The fluids found in a woman that may be infectious are found deep within the vagina and you would not have reached these fluids. Also, saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Add to that the fact that the specific cells hiv needs to bump into to infect are not found in any great quantity in the mouth and you have no risk. Going down on a woman is not a risk for hiv infection.

It doesn't matter who you have intercourse with, as long as you are using condoms (and it IS obvious when they break) you are protected against hiv infection. Your questions about the women you've had sex with are irrelevant as you used condoms for intercourse.

2. Again, who you have intercourse with is irrelevant as long as condoms are used. We cannot possibly speculate on what the burning sensation was, although you would be wise to get a full panel of sexual infection tests done when you visit the GUM tomorrow. The other STIs are MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv.

3. See my comments above concerning saliva. It would be highly unusual for you to be infected with hiv via the mouth.

I fully expect your hiv test to come back with negative results based on what you've told us. This will be conclusive if it has been three months since your last unprotected incident of intercourse - if you have ever done this. Keep using those condoms and you will remain hiv negative. Check out the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use those condoms with confidence.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, make tomorrow's check-up the beginning of a lifetime's habit. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2006, 08:44:04 AM »
Ann:

Thank you for your quick reply and the detail and effort you put in your work and most certainly has touched many.

I have a question with regards to the quote below from your kind reply.

The fluids found in a woman that may be infectious are found deep within the vagina and you would not have reached these fluids. Also, saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Add to that the fact that the specific cells hiv needs to bump into to infect are not found in any great quantity in the mouth and you have no risk. Going down on a woman is not a risk for hiv infection.

I have read a few studies, more specifically a spanish study which reported no HIV infection seronegative partners in 19,000 instances of unprotected oral sex during a 10 year period (correct me if i'm wrong). It certainly is strong evidence against HIV infection through oral sex.

I have read that a high viral load increases the risk of transmission through oral sex in particular cunnilingus, and since all seropositive partners in the study would be under treatment and many, if not all, would have low viral load counts reducing the risk of HIV transmission thorugh that route.  What are your thoughts in this particular situation? Would it not somewhat discredit the results from this study and other similar studies, given the fact that all seropositive participants in the study would be under HIV treatment with low viral loads?

The mechanisms of transmission you describe thorugh cunnilingus certainly has given me a much better insight and reasoning about the physiological aspects of HIV in vaginal fluids.  You are by far the best person to ask, if there have been any studies regarding this and why are government bodies and doctors so reluctant and vague about oral sex risks?

I am uncircuncised, and I am always wondering if I have used the condoms properly after reading other posts about condom failure ( I believe I have used them properly, but there is always the mental doubt ), I do remember going 'limp' whilst 'in the act' but the condom never come off, and now I am wondering if the skin under the foreskin has come into contact of vaginal fluids and whether it is possible for HIV to infect this way?

I wil surely test for all possible STD's at my GUM clinic appointment tomorrow and it will be the scariest thing I will ever do.

Thank you again for your helping hand, and your reply has certainly commforted me.  I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards



Online Ann

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 08:51:57 AM »
Quote
since all seropositive partners in the study would be under treatment and many, if not all, would have low viral load counts reducing the risk of HIV transmission thorugh that route.

jd,

It is not true that all the positive participants were on meds. There have been three studies like the Spanish one and they all had the same results - no tranmsissions due to oral sex. I've been positive for over nine years myself, not on meds and my partner of over seven years remains hiv negative. We use condoms for intercourse but no barrier for oral.

As long as the head of your penis remains covered, you are fine. I understand what you're saying about being uncircumsized (same as my partner) but it's not a concern in this instance.

I'm fully expecting you to test hiv negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 10:46:24 AM »
Thanks for your support Ann. 

Its going to be really difficult tomorrow at the GUM clinic and even more difficult the week ahead of me waiting for the results

I dont know how I will manage... I dont even know how Im going to react if I test positive. Im trying to prepare for the worse

I will let you know of the results as soon as I get them... whether good or bad .... but Im preparing for the worse.... Thanks again Ann

 

Online Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 11:19:15 AM »
jd,

As long as you've been honest here about your sexual experiences, then there is absolutely no reason to expect anything other than a negative hiv result.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 12:17:27 PM »
Hi Ann, thanks for the support. 

It helps hearing from someone else.  Yes I have been completely honest, the only other scenario that I can think of is when I fingered the girls sometimes (mostly the outer area of the vagina) then I may have masturbated myself with the same hand after (apologies for the explicit description).... would this be a risk since Im uncircuncised?

Thanks again for the support Ann

Online Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 01:47:04 PM »
jd,

No, no sort of fingering, masturbation or mutual masturbation is any kind of risk for hiv infection. Hiv is a fragile virus that does not remain viable when outside its prefered environment of INSIDE the human body.

You've got nothing to worry about where hiv is concerned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 06:19:46 AM »
Thanks for the help Ann,

Well in about 2.5 hours I will be at the GUM clinic.... lets hope it goes OK.... will update you on what happens...I dont know if I will have the guts to test for HIV havent made my mind up yet, im very scared of the results...but I will definately test for everything else...

Thanks again

Online Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 06:42:32 AM »
jd,

You may as well test and put your mind at rest. I'm fully expecting you to test negative and you should be expecting the same as well.

Now go get it over with, you won't regret it.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 10:58:52 AM »
Ann I took your advice and went for a full panel test about an hour ago at my local GUM clinic. 

The doctor informed me that I had minimal or no risk from my exposures.  I then had a good chat with the Health advisor and she was also very positive and shared the same opinion as you that I was not at risk for HIV from the exposures I described. I found it interesting being a government run body where they may be political about these issues and have a CYA policy.

The nurse took some swabs for preliminary indications for Gonorreah infection and had to wait five minutes for them to look under the microscope.  The health advisor informed me that so far they could not detect Gonorrhea and probably Chalmidya under the microscope so it looks like I may be in the clear for these two infections.

Do you know what other infections they will test for in a full panel in GUM clinics?

I know they took blood for HIV and Syphilis and urine samples but I dont know what other infections they will test for?

Thank you for the advice and help, I would have not gone and done a full panel test without your advice and support.  I will have to phone in on tuesday to get my HIV test results.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed and lets hope it will be good news. The rest of the results will be in by the end of next week. 

Thank you again Ann I will keep you updated.

Online Ann

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 12:16:05 PM »
jd,

It sounds like you got pretty much the full works as those are the most common ones tested for. Herpes is usually only diagnosed when there are visible sores present. You could always ask when you get the rest of your blood results.

I'm glad you went - see that wasn't so bad! And relax while you wait for your negative results.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2006, 05:46:07 AM »
Hi Ann thank you for the support.  The people at the clinic were very supportive and it wasnt too difficult and I cant believe it that I have actually gone for a test after thinking about it for about 5 years.

I'm trying not to worry too much but Im still very nervous about my results and keep trying to remember if I had any problems with condoms.  I have now remembered one incident which got me worried last night.  Long time ago, about 2years ago, after I had cum and pulled my penis out, I noticed blood on the condom.  The condom was on and I dont think it came off at all and it was on almost all the way up to the base of the shaft and I was still almost fully erect.  Is it possible for blood to penetrate through the condom? I am concerned that blood could have slipped in through the base of the condom since blood is quite liquid? 

I think I would have noticed any dry blood on my penis next time I was to urinate if that was the case and I am uncircuncised so I think it would have been obvious, right?

I disregarded it at the time because I dont remember seeing any blood on my penis when she removed the condom, but now its freaking me out a bit.

Thanks for the help again Ann.  Look forward to hearing from you.




Online Ann

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2006, 07:56:47 AM »
jd,

Condoms protect whether there is blood present or not. Neither blood nor vaginal fluids nor hiv will pass through a condom.

I'm still expecting a negative result.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jdukscared

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2006, 06:23:01 AM »
Thank you Ann for the help.  Hope you had a nice weekend.

Well, one day to go to get my HIV test results.  Lets hope is good news.  Fingers crossed.  Its going to be the most scary phone call I will ever make :(

Will let you know of the results. Thanks for the support Ann.

Regards

Offline jdukscared

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2006, 06:06:02 AM »
Hi Ann,

two hours to go for my HIV test results....  Im quite nervous but I have to bite the bullet and make that phone call....lets hope is good news.

Regards

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2006, 07:03:18 AM »
JD, like Ann I am expecting you to test negative.

Just keep using condoms everytime you have intercourse and you will be well "covered" against HIV transmission.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline jdukscared

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2006, 10:41:18 AM »
Hi Ann and Andy,

I have now got my HIV test results and its NEGATIVE and conclusive as I have not engaged in sex for the past year!  I also tested negative for Gonorrhea  and awaiting for Syphilis and Chlamidya results by the end of the week. 

I asked and I am surprised I did not get tested for Hepatitis as well.  Do you think I may need testing for hepatitis?  The Dr. did not recomment it as I dont fall into homosexual or IV drugs user groups, but its always good to test right?

Ann I want to thank you for the support you gave me and I would have definately not gone through the testing without your help.  You guys do a great job, and keep it up.  You are absolutely right about oral sex and condoms, as long as you use condoms properly for penetrative sex you will be fine with regards to HIV.

I must have had about 50 instances ( I was too scared to count before) of unprotected cunnilingus over the last 7 years and I could not believe my test results and it is exactly what you expected.  You guys were spot on.

Again I would like to thank you for all the help and I will let you know the rest of my results as they come in.

Regards
jd



Offline OnEdge

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2006, 11:31:30 AM »
 ;D Dear jdukscared !!!

What wonderful news this is! I have posted once before for risks very similar to yours. I was waiting impatiently to know the outcome of your blood test and trust me, I am as happy about the news as you are!

I wish you all the best and hopfully we "Worried wells" can put this behing us ASAP.

Good health to you and to all the wonderful people on this forum. You guys are God sent and you cannot begin to imagine the good you do to others.

Cheers!

Edge ;D

Offline zebardy

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Re: Multiple oral sex exposures
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2006, 01:27:54 AM »
jdukscared - Thanks for that post ...

I am a 40yr hetrosexual male who have had a similar exposure (although just recieving oral from workiing girls, never giving and always used a condom for penatrive sex ... ).

You have given me re-assurance to have a test also, I have been a silent reader of this forum for about a year now, and have many concerns I might be infected like you from oral with working giirls ...

Its often hard to see the hard facts of the written word and the percieved symptoms,  I was tested -ve 8yrs ago and swore I would never use working girls again but sadly slipped back into that routine again and am now 'concerned' about having another test ....

Thanks for the posting, and to the others and moderators - this is an invaluable forum for so many people ...

 


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