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Author Topic: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??  (Read 3382 times)

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Offline mecch

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Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« on: September 02, 2013, 06:17:37 PM »
His mother said he was dying of AIDS.  It seems he always denied that he was HIV+, and became a confirmed denialist, discounting the existence itself of the virus.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/boxing-champ-tommy-morrison-dead-44-article-1.1443500

According to the story in ESPN.com, Morrison began having health problems nearly two years ago when a doctor "left a 12-foot piece of surgical gauze" in his chest for more than a week, his wife, Trisha, said. He then contracted Guillain-Barre' Syndrome, in which the immune system is at war with the peripheral nervous system, the story goes on to say. She also said that Morrison contracted Miller Fisher disease, a variation of that syndrome, which can lead to paralysis in the lower limbs. His family added that Morrison was being cared for at a hospital in Nebraska but wouldn't reveal which one.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/02/tommy-morrison-dies-boxer-rocky-v_n_3856331.html

"Tommy's a very stubborn person and he views things the way he wants to view things. That's his right and privilege," Holden said. "All through his career, him and I would come not to physical blows but disagreements on certain things. We always ended up friends. That was Tommy.

"That's the way Tommy took off after he was told he was HIV-positive," Holden added. "When he first was told, I was taking him to seek treatment and to different doctors around the country. And then he started research on the Internet and started saying it was a conspiracy. He went in that direction and never looked back."

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2013/09/tommy-morrison-dead-44-aids-complications-hiv-denial
Former heavyweight boxing champion and Rocky V star Tommy Morrison died last night, most likely of complications from AIDS, though not if you ask his wife, Trish, who says it was a variant of Guillain-Barre Syndrome called Miller-Fisher Syndrome. In 1996, when he was 27, Morrison twice tested positive for HIV. Later he became convinced that HIV was a myth, and after a dubious negative test for HIV in 2007, fought two more times (we last wrote about that in 2007), and failed to show for additional drug tests where the results would’ve been less dubious. The writer of that KansasCity.com piece reported that Morrison had skin lesions and claimed to be having unprotected sex with his wife. According to an incredibly fascinating though depressing ESPN piece from last week, Morrison had been bedridden for a year and had been kept alive with a ventilator and feeding tube.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9588582/tommy-morrison-latest-big-fight

(Maybe I'll read that piece tomorrow. I dunno. Sad.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:27:12 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Joe K

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 06:25:55 PM »
After all these decades, I still can't believe that folks will live in denial.  Somehow, I just can't have much empathy for guys like this, who have access to the best medical care, yet they deny and then they die.  He has absolutely no one to blame, except himself.

The saddest part, is the damage he did to those he left behind.

Joe

Offline ds4146

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 11:14:21 PM »
"Tommy's a very stubborn person and he views things the way he wants to view things. That's his right and privilege," Holden said.

And I think that is the catch, whether anyone else accepts it or not, it is their right and privilege.

People live in denial for all types of illnesses; being overweight, drinking, drugs, smoking, and for all types of reasons, even after all these decades.

It is sad none the less I think.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 11:35:48 PM »
And I think that is the catch, whether anyone else accepts it or not, it is their right and privilege.

People live in denial for all types of illnesses; being overweight, drinking, drugs, smoking, and for all types of reasons, even after all these decades.

It is sad none the less I think.

The difference is that being in denial about HIV will KILL YOU, as the others are more of a crap shoot.

Joe

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 11:53:11 PM »
The difference is that being in denial about HIV will KILL YOU, as the others are more of a crap shoot.

Joe

True ... and denial about HIV can lead to the transmission of HIV too .

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 12:24:14 AM »
True ... and denial about HIV can lead to the transmission of HIV too .

Also, denialists recruit from the vulnerable and frightened. They ostracise those who get sick and start meds. They villify and mock safer sex campaigns.

They are far, FAR from someone who is drinking or using drugs or overweight. Though those things can kill, and in some cases kill others, this is not a "high" nor an escape. It is a fucking virus with an astonishingly effective volley of treatments.

I have no energy for this man at all, good or bad. Except to be grateful that children who love boxing have better role models than this person.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 01:03:41 AM »
And I think that is the catch, whether anyone else accepts it or not, it is their right and privilege.

People live in denial for all types of illnesses; being overweight, drinking, drugs, smoking, and for all types of reasons, even after all these decades.

It is sad none the less I think.

I dont quite follow the comparison to drinking drugs, smoking, obesity.

IMO HIV denialism is a powerful glitch in intellectual function.  Its anti-relatity based. Evidence-free belief.  This sort of glitch seems to always have a presence in human history..  I would compare HIV denialism to things like dangerous or deadly cults, to religious beliefs that allow one to become a suicide bomber or murderer, to pathological and schizoid movements or moment in history (dictatorships, holocausts, caste based societies, apartheids, human enslavement)....

Its mind over reality, mind over logic, and mind over body..   Depressingly recurrent in human culture and banal in the the Hannah Arendt sense.  Banally evil.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:06:56 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline intaglio

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 01:24:12 AM »
This reminds me of the old adage "If you can't be a shining example, then be the best horrific object lesson you can be."

Forceful people sometimes make bad decisions. It's part of what drives their success. Steve Jobs comes to mind in his choosing homeopathic remedies to combat his cancer. One looks at things like that and can't help but go "c'mon, really? Dude, you're smarter than that."

I've learned over the years that many times you just can't save someone from themselves. It sounds as if Tommy had many around him saying he needed to seek help. He chose to ignore them in favor of his own opinion.

I also know I seem to be able to solve everyone's problems but my own. /s  ::) Even being aware of this flaw, I still can't help but make less-than-optimal decisions concerning myself, too. I just have to hope they don't end so tragically as Tommy's did.
Reality is frequently inaccurate.

Offline joemutt

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 01:45:10 AM »
People in denial got there partly because stigmatization is so big with hiv/aids. Is there any disease that carries such a big stigma? It is a problem of society not of the individual alone. In the country I live in many people are in denial, not searching help, terrorized and rather die because they are so ashamed. I think that when the stigma becomes more deadly than a virus that can be suppressed we need to reflect on that. For me people in denial are also worthy of compassion, I would not dare say 'they have only themselves to blame'. The latter could be said about almost anyone getting hiv nowadays, too.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 02:13:09 AM »
People in denial got there partly because stigmatization is so big with hiv/aids. Is there any disease that carries such a big stigma? It is a problem of society not of the individual alone. In the country I live in many people are in denial, not searching help, terrorized and rather die because they are so ashamed. I think that when the stigma becomes more deadly than a virus that can be suppressed we need to reflect on that. For me people in denial are also worthy of compassion, I would not dare say 'they have only themselves to blame'. The latter could be said about almost anyone getting hiv nowadays, too.

You overlook the great damage these denialists do to others who listen to and believe their stories, or are recruited for "the cause."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 03:48:45 AM »
Hmm. I dunno. Denialism can manifest in, and result from, a host of factors I think. For some people it is no more than an extension and multiplication of reflexively defensive emotions-that these are scientifically irrational does preclude such making ‘sense’ in one’s mind- such as ‘this could not have happened to me’, ‘I feel OK so I must be OK and will be OK’, ‘I rather die than reveal to anyone I have this’ and so on, and it just snowballs from there. And societal prejudices at large do surely play a contributing role in hardening this mindset although the major chunk of the blame is individual.

 I don’t dispute for a minute the immensely destructive and harmful effects of such thought processes, but nor do I think making an effort to understand them justifies it the way I see it.

The human mind is very capable of rationalizing the irrational. It’s quite easy. 
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 04:01:02 AM »
Yes I totally agree. Its a good observation.  I think a lot of this has to do with shame and how people deal with it.  Project it, distort it into something else, etc.  Deny the thing that causes shame.  Denialism is a cousin to stigma.

I listen to a weekly esoteric podcast about all sorts of both science and new agey stuff. There was a new agey program about the destructive effects of different emotions and shame was at the top of the list for this guru.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 04:18:56 AM »
You overlook the great damage these denialists do to others who listen to and believe their stories, or are recruited for "the cause."

And I think another point to note as to the damage they cause is the perfect climate provided for this by the elusive and amorphous nature of the disease itself.

The way it works differently in different people. Different symptoms manifest, different experiences come forward. So say some people who've been asymptomatic and poz for 5 years plus or so, if they're gullible and impressionable enough, if they fall prey to insecurities arising from social prejudices, if they have a predilection to seek out emotion over hard-won science, denialists would fit just the bill.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 04:24:36 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline joemutt

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 05:54:50 AM »
You overlook the great damage these denialists do to others who listen to and believe their stories, or are recruited for "the cause."
I clearly do not mean 'denialists' or The Denialists who deny the existence of a virus. I mean people in denial about their health situation because of stigma.

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 06:17:44 AM »
People in denial got there partly because stigmatization is so big with hiv/aids. Is there any disease that carries such a big stigma? It is a problem of society not of the individual alone. In the country I live in many people are in denial, not searching help, terrorized and rather die because they are so ashamed. I think that when the stigma becomes more deadly than a virus that can be suppressed we need to reflect on that. For me people in denial are also worthy of compassion, I would not dare say 'they have only themselves to blame'. The latter could be said about almost anyone getting hiv nowadays, too.
This may be a situation in which contradictory points can stand together.

What country, may I ask?

IMO when an HIV+ person who has taken the rational steps to deal with infection, makes a comment such "they have only themselves to blame" about a person who "chooses" to die a miserable unnecessary death, because they "don't have HIV", its a complex statement. 

It is not without empathy and compassion - one can imagine the cultural pressures that may have participated.  But it does include the anger and disappointment.  And I think we can all agree that responsibility can be spread up and down and sideways.  Even if one person puts it at the level of individual, another at the level of the social.

Also, then, to consider - its both an individual (we are born with a certain character) and cultural question (we are born in a place, with a culture) - to what extent is one an "individual" with a high degree of "individual responsibility" for how life is lived, and to what extent is one's life defined and governed by family, society.

Its perfectly valid to tell anyone, anywhere, who is HIV+ and is suffering from internal stigma, stigma coming from the culture, community, (and throw into the soup, harassment, discrimination, danger, and ignorance), that at the end of the day, it is STILL up to the individual with HIV to OVERCOME the cultural, if its repressive. 

Assuming Morrison died of AIDS because he was in denial, his WIFE was participant in this irrational choice.  We can be mad at everyone who feeds such a delusion - wife, denialists (the articles said he read the literature). Etc.  We can feel empathy for his mom and family, who suffered needlessly, and were NOT in denial. Sorry but its a selfish and mean act to do this to your loved ones.... (Just my opinion)  We can STILL feel empathy for people so damaged they end up in this situation.

I can't tell how many times I have offerred the observation to someone feeling the pressure of stigma that an HIV diagnosis is an "invitation to develop a larger consciousness" than the one a culture or family or community (or legal system, etc etc) imposes, as well as the one you may have had up to the point of infection and diagnosis. 

This is a challenge that runs the gamut from easily met, to impossible to meet.  True.  But its ok to say it, over and over, to people who are suffering from stigma and are therefore not acting rationally about their infection. 





« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:31:46 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 06:35:31 AM »
Thank god we have the Internet and people can learn about ways of living different than their mindset and local setting. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Delby

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 08:16:41 AM »
So are we to assume he never took ART's? Or was he simply one of the unlucky ones that died despite taking ART's?

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 08:33:07 AM »
That info is not in the reports of his death, so far. I didn't see it in the bios published in previous years, though it seems to implied that he had medical advice in the 90s and then went off on his denialism path.. 
I wonder how much facts will really come out about his demise and death. 
Perhaps the mother will talk.
Or perhaps there will be a forced autopsy, though I don't know why.
Or maybe someone will write a long-form investigative article.
Who knows.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline darryaz

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 09:17:34 AM »
So are we to assume he never took ART's? Or was he simply one of the unlucky ones that died despite taking ART's?

I read about this on Huffpo.  Their article said that he refused any treatment.

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 09:36:21 AM »
RIP Tommy
He was a decent boxer back in the day but he lost the opportunity to become the Magic Jhonson of combat sports (that really needed a stand up against sexual & HIV discrimination), also i can't believe a rich people with all the access to meds and elite assistance still die in 2013 due do denialism. It's a mess...
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline Billy B

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 01:27:01 PM »
I am so happy that I have never met a ignorant denialists. I did not know they even existed until I sought out this site when beginning my journey of three pills a day. I had many friends die early on so I have never questioned that it was ever anything but the AIDS virus.
Billy B
VL 4420 CD4 340 CD4% 24   3/15/10 Started I&T
VL  UD   CD4 340 CD4% 26.5 05/13/10
VL  UD   CD4 360 CD4% 27.1 08/3/10
VL  UD   CD4 310 CD4% 28.4 11/22/10
VL  UD   CD4 420 CD4% 27.9 02/11/11
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 26.4 06/08/11
VL  UD   CD4 360 CD4% 27.7 09/23/11
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 28.3 01/20/12
VL  UD   CD4 430 CD4% 28.8 05/11/12
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 28.1 09/07/12
VL  UD   CD4 390 CD4% 32.3 03/14/13

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 01:41:01 PM »
I am so happy that I have never met a ignorant denialists. I did not know they even existed until I sought out this site when beginning my journey of three pills a day. I had many friends die early on so I have never questioned that it was ever anything but the AIDS virus.
Billy B

Why does "early" mean? Do you refer to years ago, "early" in the epidemic, in the 80s and 90s? If they died when there was no treatment available there is no great reason to wonder about denial. 
If you mean "early" as in "before the expected lifespan" - well, life expectancy is always changing...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Billy B

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 02:30:34 PM »
Why does "early" mean? Do you refer to years ago, "early" in the epidemic, in the 80s and 90s? If they died when there was no treatment available there is no great reason to wonder about denial. 
If you mean "early" as in "before the expected lifespan" - well, life expectancy is always changing...

Early on as in the early 90s.
Billy B
VL 4420 CD4 340 CD4% 24   3/15/10 Started I&T
VL  UD   CD4 340 CD4% 26.5 05/13/10
VL  UD   CD4 360 CD4% 27.1 08/3/10
VL  UD   CD4 310 CD4% 28.4 11/22/10
VL  UD   CD4 420 CD4% 27.9 02/11/11
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 26.4 06/08/11
VL  UD   CD4 360 CD4% 27.7 09/23/11
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 28.3 01/20/12
VL  UD   CD4 430 CD4% 28.8 05/11/12
VL  UD   CD4 370 CD4% 28.1 09/07/12
VL  UD   CD4 390 CD4% 32.3 03/14/13

Online tednlou2

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »
Was he an active denialist, aligning himself with vocal denialists?  Or, was he a private denialist, basically only saying it was a myth when confronted with it?  I know some won't see a difference, but I do.

I do have compassion for him.  The mind is powerful.  As I understand it, his status was made public, which is something most of us don't have to deal with.  Add being in the public eye, and I can see how that could be so traumatic, that you begin to live in denial.  Add in many equate HIV with gay, and people question your sexuality.  Was he gay, or on the DL?   Add in possible low intelligence.  Was there evidence of brain dysfunction from fighting? 

I can see how someone can convince themselves they don't have the virus.  When docs are telling you you have it, then I could see how a mind in denial would then come up with HIV is just a myth.  Aren't many of the vocal denialists, who are all over the web, actually HIV neg?  There is no excuse for them.

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 02:49:17 AM »
I think he was not an activist on denialism. He just used to convince himself he was HIV- meanwhile he was not. And he died.
He also had a past (and present?) of drug & steroids abuse, and maybe on pugilistic dementhia (neurological damages, even if sometimes pretty asymptomatic, are very common between PRO boxers)
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline mecch

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 06:52:08 AM »
Well its all arm-chair psychology.  I might guess that he was very centered on the self, his own power to create himself, and ambitious, very much a bootstrapper and "I control my destiny" in order to become a top boxer.  He probably hated being delivered a fait accompli - hiv diagnosis - that is a blow to ones sense of power, invincibility, and also that destroyed his career and in a sense, all the work he had done.

Also, I often think people who are in denial on things are very much in their own self-defined universe. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline ratcat

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Re: Tommy Morrison dead, from AIDS??
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 01:37:58 PM »
Some very valid points voiced here but I want to say something nice about Tommy.

I really liked Rocky 5, despite what the critics said.  It's my 3rd favorite Rocky movie, just behind Rocky and Rocky Balboa(Rocky 6).  The street fight at the end involving Tommy and Stalone is epic and Tommy did a pretty decent bit of acting.  RIP Tommy Gun.  Definitely worth a download in his honor. 

 


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