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Author Topic: Reinfection  (Read 4847 times)

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Offline cockar

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Reinfection
« on: August 25, 2013, 11:13:26 AM »
Hi everyone, so I have a question, just that I wasn't sure where to post it...

Me and my partner we're both HIV+, we both are taking Atripla and we do take care of each other... We still have sex, we use condoms but I'm pretty worried about any reinfection.
Last night the condom torn and Im pretty worried about a reinfection. I understand getting reinfected would be terrible for our organism and we could stop responding to treatment... DO you suggest me anything?
I have an appointment with my dr until next friday but I need an urgent opinion.

Online Jeff G

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 11:42:56 AM »
You can relax ... the whole super infection thing is way overblown and although its possible its highly unlikely , very highly unlikely that you and your partner who are on treatment and probably with very low viral loads would come to harm from a broken condom or if you didn't use them at all . I will add that condoms are a pretty good idea if you are not in a monogamous relationship because of other STD's , not HIV .


Some doctors trot out super infection scare tactics because they don't like the idea of people with HIV having sex . In my humble opinion super infections are not quite as rare as unicorns but close . You really shouldn't be worried about this but its understandable that you do because of all the hype and misinformation on the subject .     

Offline leatherman

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 01:04:09 AM »
so far in all the dozen or so cases of reinfection/superinfection, neither partner was on successful therapy (on meds with UD viral loads) - that is both partners either were not on meds or were not adherent so both had high viral loads. Therefore one partner had the high viral load making it easy for him to infect the partner, while the partner had no defenses and so was reinfected.

the first report I ever read about this was about two guys. Both were in the hospital on failed therapy (not just poor adherence but NO adherence) with viral loads so high they were experiencing OIs (and that's why they were in the hospital) They actually had sex in the hospital. (can you imagine?? so sick you're hospitalized with AIDS and yet running down the hall to screw another patient?!?!) Testing showed that not only did they have their mutated resistant HIV; but the mutated resistant HIV from the other partner - which ended up drastically limiting their medical options.

For most people, not only does an UD viral load reduce the chances of spreading HIV to nearly zilch; but when on successful therapy, your HAART acts as both PrEP and PEP making any sort of reinfection probably even rarer than unicorns. LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 01:43:48 AM »
If you are mutually monogamous I would not hesitate to advise ditching the condoms if you want.

This as a safer sex educator since 1994, and a moderator on the AM I INFECTED forum.

Seriously, no risk for superinfection, reinfection, or any other HIV malady.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 02:25:12 AM »
Some doctors trot out super infection scare tactics because they don't like the idea of people with HIV having sex . In my humble opinion super infections are not quite as rare as unicorns but close . You really shouldn't be worried about this but its understandable that you do because of all the hype and misinformation on the subject .   

This is what I've come to believe.  I hear experts say it is very rare and mostly happens in early infection, if at all.  But, you still have so many healthcare workers in HIV medicine say it can happen much later.  They do usually say it is still rare.  I can see why so many are confused about the truth.  I have wondered whether they just aren't up on the science, or whether it is a scare tactic.

I've also had a couple HIV medical professionals claim they've seen "several" non-adherent patients pass on drug resistance to their partners.  I asked if both were taking the same regimen and the other WAS adherent, how could this happen.  They said the other partner was on another regimen (or had not started meds yet) and needed to switch (or start), and they learned resistance had shown up that wasn't previously there.  It seems I mentioned this here before, and many said drug resistance doesn't happen in this way either, or is as rare as "superinfection."     

So, what does the science tell us on this?  Do you have to worry about your partner, or trick, not being adherent, in terms of your own drug efficacy?  I mean, I know drug resistance can be passed along in initial infection.  I know being infected with a different strain, when you're already infected, has been shown to be rare, and something that would be seen during early infection, if at all.  That question comes up a lot.  Passing drug resistance is not a question you see as much. 

Online Jeff G

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 03:52:45 AM »
I have known more than a few folks with resistance issues but I have never seen the elusive super infection caused by the deadly sin of bare backing in my 30 years of HIVdom , by all rights I should be popping and fizzing with the aids by now if it were common ... and I don't pop or fizz .

This statement isn't science based in case you didn't notice .

Offline Ann

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 07:21:24 AM »

But, you still have so many healthcare workers in HIV medicine say it can happen much later.  They do usually say it is still rare.  I can see why so many are confused about the truth.  I have wondered whether they just aren't up on the science, or whether it is a scare tactic.


Ted, you have to remember that a lot of those health care workers who put an emphasis on reinfection are hiv negative and hiv negative people tend to be a bit paranoid about hiv. Even when they know the science, the double spectre of stigma and discrimination colours their world to such an extent that many let their heart rule their head. Many seem to think, in their heart-of-hearts, that a person's sex life should stop at diagnosis.


It seems I mentioned this here before, and many said drug resistance doesn't happen in this way either, or is as rare as "superinfection."     


Reinfection and superinfection are the same exact thing. It's not super as in super-duper or super-strength, it's super as in superimposed. One viral strain on top of another.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 07:03:44 AM »
For most people, not only does an UD viral load reduce the chances of spreading HIV to nearly zilch; but when on successful therapy, your HAART acts as both PrEP and PEP making any sort of reinfection probably even rarer than unicorns. LOL

What does it happen if, being on HAART successfully, i do bareback sex with a poz partner with a huge viral load and a different/mutated strain which is resistant to the drugs i am taking? Should i finally see an unicorn? Lol :P
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline mecch

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 09:06:35 AM »
What does it happen if, being on HAART successfully, i do bareback sex with a poz partner with a huge viral load and a different/mutated strain which is resistant to the drugs i am taking? Should i finally see an unicorn? Lol :P
Jungle - I thought that a small bonus of having got HIV was that I could bareback with other HIV+ people.  Also I was (and am still) on effective HAART.  But I got Hep C, doing this.  NOT a bonus!  And it wasn't from drug use, nor fisting.  So, just remember, anyone reading this, there are risks to barebacking poz-poz - not this rare idea about "reinfection" or "superinfection".   
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 09:48:15 AM »
Well, i was just adding a bit of sense of humor  ;D

I am aware of co-infection (hiv+random STD), and even having been promiscous all my life i have never stick to bareback sex (it sounds weird but it's true, i was only so stupid not to use condom from the very beginning trusting partnes who used to fuck with just more often than unknown ones...)
But, even if re/super-infections are still to be fully accepted as a evidence-based reality...it make sense to me. Plus, why should i put myself at risk not to be more responsive to a good therapy and maybe be forced to switch to a worse one due to a sexual-acquired resistance?
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 09:57:41 AM »
What does it happen if, being on HAART successfully, i do bareback sex with a poz partner with a huge viral load and a different/mutated strain which is resistant to the drugs i am taking? Should i finally see an unicorn? Lol :P
nope. if YOU are on successful HAART, it will work as both PrEP (pre-exposure prophylaxis) and PEP (post-exposure prophylaxis). so nope, no unicorns for you, buddy. AND since you would be on successful HAART, no unicorns for your partner either.

besides I think you have to be a virgin to see unicorns anyway. ROFLMAO  ;D

So, just remember, anyone reading this, there are risks to barebacking poz-poz - not this rare idea about "reinfection" or "superinfection".   
oh, and not just other STIs either (like syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhea, the hepatitises a, b, c) which you might acquire barebacking; but something as simple as a urinary tract infection is also possible. I learned that one from personal experience earlier this summer. Ouch! :o

What I really learned from that experience was if I wasn't doing it at my house with my stockpile of condoms (one of the great advantages to working the health fair booth for my ASO is that I always have lube and a wide range of fun condoms to "test" ;) ) and knowing how horny I usually am 8) , is to take more than three condoms just in case I'm having a really good time.  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 07:25:16 PM »
So, just remember, anyone reading this, there are risks to barebacking poz-poz - not this rare idea about "reinfection" or "superinfection".

Many of us aren't risk-averse, as they say. ;) Remind me of this if I catch Hep-C or Ebola. :P
Code: [Select]
2014-11-14: CD4 Wars Episode II: Return of the Stribild (released in Europe as Stribild II: Werewolf Bitch)
2014-11-06:                ☣ VL (→) 12,627      ☣ CD4 (→) 639
2014-??-??: off treatment  ☣ VL (?)              ☣ CD4 (?)
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline oksikoko

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  • Writing the congressman again
Re: Reinfection
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 07:28:33 PM »
hiv negative people tend to be a bit paranoid about hiv.

Ain't that the truth. I read some of the "am I infected?" posts, and lords have mercy, calm down people. It's not the end of the world even if you did get the HIV from being spit on by that pissed off CSW after you stiffed him out of a tip. It's a bit offensive, actually. There's nothing wrong with being HIV+. :P
Code: [Select]
2014-11-14: CD4 Wars Episode II: Return of the Stribild (released in Europe as Stribild II: Werewolf Bitch)
2014-11-06:                ☣ VL (→) 12,627      ☣ CD4 (→) 639
2014-??-??: off treatment  ☣ VL (?)              ☣ CD4 (?)
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline aaware72

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 08:33:03 PM »
My partner and I are both positive.  We are both on medication and are both UD.  We do not use condoms and both of our doctors are aware of this and there has been no concern raised by either doctor. 
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Reinfection
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 04:47:52 AM »
My partner and I are both positive.  We are both on medication and are both UD.  We do not use condoms and both of our doctors are aware of this and there has been no concern raised by either doctor. 

Same here, and this was true even when my partner was the only one who was on meds and UD. We were together (this time around lol) for nearly five years before I went on meds - he was UD the whole time, I wasn't until about nine months ago. No problems for us and no hassle from our doctor(s). (We go to the same clinic.)

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 05:02:12 AM »
Ain't that the truth. I read some of the "am I infected?" posts, and lords have mercy, calm down people. It's not the end of the world even if you did get the HIV from being spit on by that pissed off CSW after you stiffed him out of a tip. It's a bit offensive, actually. There's nothing wrong with being HIV+. :P

A little off-topic but, not completely.....

Sometimes hiv negative health-care workers can be the worst. I always have the same nurse draw my blood because he knows my (often difficult) veins. We've gotten into the habit of sharing our latest, most outrageous WW stories - his from the clinic and mine from the Am I forum.

Last time I was there, I told him about the recent person who managed to get herself on PEP after talking to a "say-it-don't-spray-it" type person who she imagined was poz. The guy got some spit in her eye.

He (the nurse) laughed and said, "I've got a better one!"

He told me the story of someone who got spit in her eye from a (known to be) poz person She immediately stuck a huge dollop of antibacterial hand-gel into her eye and rubbed it in. She had to have emergency treatment and nearly lost the sight in her eye, due to cornea/lens damage, some of which has turned out to be permanent.

The kicker? She was a NURSE in the hiv clinic. Someone who could be expected to know better. And she acted out this drama right in front of the patient, loudly freaking out, saying "he's trying to infect me!!!" and other such nonsense. She's been reassigned to another part of the hospital and re-educated. IMHO, she's lucky she still has a job.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 07:30:35 PM »
Uhm...i resumed this post because i am a stupid, really.
Meanwhile i am totally aware about the need of safe sex being Poz, i still managed to mess it up...being compulsive...
A few days ago i dated a Poz sexual partner i used to "safe" fuck with when i was negative, but now i had sex...bareback. Really i was having safe sex, but as she was aware of my status she really asked for me to pull off my condom and cum inside...and i did it.
She is poz since 2006/2007, actually on Atripla and undetectable (assuming she said the truth), while i'm going to start meds in a few days...
Now, i did my resistance test a month ago and it was brilliant: a wild type and no resistance at all...should i talk to my doctor about that? Should it be necessary to repeat a new resistance test? I am a bit afraid she could have transmitted some new strain.
I feel so silly about complaining my own compulsive habits. Sorry.
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Online Jeff G

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 07:41:15 PM »
Uhm...i resumed this post because i am a stupid, really.
Meanwhile i am totally aware about the need of safe sex being Poz, i still managed to mess it up...being compulsive...
A few days ago i dated a Poz sexual partner i used to "safe" fuck with when i was negative, but now i had sex...bareback. Really i was having safe sex, but as she was aware of my status she really asked for me to pull off my condom and cum inside...and i did it.
She is poz since 2006/2007, actually on Atripla and undetectable (assuming she said the truth), while i'm going to start meds in a few days...
Now, i did my resistance test a month ago and it was brilliant: a wild type and no resistance at all...should i talk to my doctor about that? Should it be necessary to repeat a new resistance test? I am a bit afraid she could have transmitted some new strain.
I feel so silly about complaining my own compulsive habits. Sorry.



You will be just fine . The super infection is mostly a crock of smelly stuff for all practical purposes . Not scientific but my humble opinion .

Offline leatherman

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 08:02:07 PM »
She is poz since 2006/2007, actually on Atripla and undetectable (assuming she said the truth), while i'm going to start meds in a few days.

I am a bit afraid she could have transmitted some new strain.
why on earth would you be afraid?!? actually, because of your untreated viral load, YOU are the one who was probably transmitting the virus. Lucky for her, re/super infection is mostly myth, and HER meds work as PrEP and PEP to protect HER.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline JungleJungle

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2013, 08:13:12 PM »
Ok, i hope so...sorry again...
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline konrad.deire

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Re: Reinfection
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2013, 12:42:46 PM »
Undetectable = no risk? and POZ-sex parties

Dear all, I am living with hiv for about 23 years now on Haart since 1996, my viral-load is undetectable (less than 5 in a million), I am reading about ‘post exposure prophylaxis and prevention prophylaxis for sex workers …
my question: am I still dangerous or in danger? I mean I am constantly filled with anti-retrovirals, the viral load is pretty low … so in theory the risk of infecting is pretty low as well, but how low? Less than 5 in a million?
And can I be infected again (besides all the other STD’s)??
I am reading of groups organizing bareback POZ parties … what do you think about it?

thanks and apologies if I sound a bit naive

 


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