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Author Topic: Took quality health care for granted...Now Im seeing the other side of the coin.  (Read 14188 times)

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Offline BT65

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If you can't understand how drug use and homelessness go hand in hand you may be to far gone to have a discussion.

And just how are you an expert on this?  I worked with homeless people, I know the incidence of drug use and/or mental health issues (which I believe you also face).  But asking right away, when someone mentions they know homeless people, if they're drug addicts is getting a little ahead of yourself.

I also do not know you tell me I am "too far gone."  I've been completely sober a few years, so my mental faculties are excellent.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Tool man

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When I was living abroad and visiting the clinic, all 50 of us patients would have an 11 o'clock appointment and I didn't enjoy the surroundings nor other clients.
The place was not in good shape and the other patients were not of my choosing! Waiting would take from 1-3 hours so I would always take my book and read until they eventually called my name. Never did I complain since it was the "Free" socialized medicine that I paid for every month like everyone else who lived there.
Had I wanted to pay for a nicer facility and all the blood tests I had that option but chose not. Yes the place was abysmal, but the care was fine and tests/meds were free so I got what I paid for.

TM
Like I tell my husband, "I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong."

Offline intaglio

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I saw this thread when it was over in LTS. So much going on here.

Disclosure: I was homeless for a short time in the early '80's. I lost my job and my apartment. Since I was a 'college student' I could not get any help. So I lived out of my car for a while. I had it better than most. I was young and resilient. As it was, it still barely allows me to say "I was there myself" when others speak of homelessness.

There was a NYT article recently that showcased people who sought out HIV so they could keep from being homeless. Yeah, on the friggen' scale of what people don't want to have happen in their lives. some would rather be HIV+ than homeless because of the options and help available.

Columbia, South Carolina is planning to round up its homeless into shelters the homeless can't leave. Sort of a non-prison incarceration. Fun stuff. A few years back, the same thing was being proposed for HIV sufferers. Gives you a little perspective on how a few in power with the ability to help the homeless view them.

Okay, on to the homeless are druggies sentiment. Outliers get the attention. Media love the attention-grabbers that feed on peoples' fears. When media wants to demonize the homeless, they trot out the visuals of the stumbling drunk guy or the guy assaulting passers-by. They don't bother to show you the guy who's spent the last 12 hours combing job listings at the job bank, customizing his resumť for each one. He only gets trotted out when the United Way starts its annual money beg.

Do homeless people use drugs? Sure. Do some drink to excess? Sure. Do they obtain drugs when they could be using their limited resources differently? Sure. So do a bunch of non-homeless people.

Those who rail against and act against the homeless have stopped seeing them as people. Do you want the homeless to go away? Then maybe you need to work harder to insure all your tax money paying for explody things that kill others goes to improving the lives of those around you. The US government has the ability to wipe out homelessness. It chooses to wipe out lives overseas instead.

I know I am next door to homelessness.

You and many others. Too many people are just a paycheck away from homelessness, but many don't want to hear that.

The doctor said he knew of no one in economic trouble. I wonder if he was being truthful...

HIPPA constraints keep him from being truthful. Doctors are all too aware of their patients who struggle to afford their care.


Anyway, thank you all who care for others and can see past financial (and perhaps olfactory) challenges to the person struggling. You make this world a better place.
Reality is frequently inaccurate.

Offline leatherman

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Columbia, South Carolina is planning to round up its homeless into shelters the homeless can't leave. Sort of a non-prison incarceration. Fun stuff. A few years back, the same thing was being proposed for HIV sufferers.
this is only an emergency plan. This shelter is opening up 2 months before it's usual winter opening date. There are kitchen facilities providing meals, and they are setting up a tent to house service representatives, who will be helping the homeless get assistance which they are currently not accessing. Also no longer will released ex-prisoners just be "dumped" into the city; but taken to this shelter so they have someplace to be rather than living on the streets. The homeless are allowed to leave (the article you linked was incorrect about this detail); however there will be police on watch for these people trying to return to those locations in the center of the city where they had been. Over the next 3 months, the city will have hearings in which they are planning to develop a long term strategy to solve this situation - a situation which had become very detrimental to tourism and to local businesses - not too mention that this plan gives shelter, food, and access to resources for those who have been without and wandering the streets.


disclosure: I have luckily avoided homelessness 3 times now.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline JungleJungle

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Too many people are just a paycheck away from homelessness, but many don't want to hear that.

So true...
You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Offline Jeff G

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In the late 80's some city's filed a lawsuit and won over Montgomery Alabama's solution to homelessness . They were arresting homeless people for simply being homeless and giving them a bus ticket to a city of their choice , so naturally they mostly chose to go to places like San Diego , cant remember where else .

A few of the city's sued and won and ended Montgomery's cost effective homeless relocation plan as it was referred to . It became known that if you were in need of transportation to another city and didn't have the means to make it happen on your own all you had to do was get to Montgomery and take a nap on the sidewalk near city hall . 

It all started when plans were offered and permits were requested from the city council to open a homeless shelter .

Offline oksikoko

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How many of your homeless friends are on drugs?

I'd have to call them and ask. Being or not being on drugs isn't a requirement for my friendship.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline phillypinko

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I have been on disability for twenty years, since I developed AIDS in 1994. I was lucky then, because I was fast-tracked to disability and managed to latch onto section eight (reduced rate) housing before the avalanche of HIV survivors clogged the system. At the present, there is an eight year wait forthat housing.

I currently pay $250 a month for rent ( including 30 pet rent, water and sewer, and all that).

I know full well that I am an inoppurtune inspection away from beign homeless. As it stands, each month I basically spend down to the dollar. Gas, meds, food/otc drugs, pet food and litter, and internet/phone take all but maybe a hundred dollars of my monthly income.

I know I am next door to homelessness. I fear that, and I act upon that fear by freaking out when scheduled inspections are scheduled.

It is a life basedon fear. And poverty.

And for the OP, how many people with mental illness face homelessness? I suspect that number rivals thatof the lowly drug abusers (and that there is serious overlap as people try to self-medicate).

I have more to say. I just don't have the energy this weekend.
I am on disability and in section 8 housing as well. Being poor doesn't mean I have to accept inferior medical care. A waiting room that smells horrible and declining quality of care are unacceptable. I meet plenty of people who reject me for being disabled and in section 8 housing. It hurts but I know I can't change the world.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 12:15:32 PM by phillypinko »

Offline Jeff G

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I am on disability and in section 8 housing as well. Being poor doesn't mean I have to accept inferior medical care. A waiting room that smells horrible and declining quality of care are unacceptable. I meet plenty of people who reject me for being disabled and in section 8 housing. It hurts but I know I can't change the world.

You have talked about rejection and being judged in allot of your post so I'm wondering if you feel the way you do about people less fortunate as a way to feel better about yourself .

You may not be able to change the world but you can make a difference in your corner of it .

Offline Miss Philicia

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A waiting room that smells horrible and declining quality of care are unacceptable.

Except you are failing to mention that I GO TO THE EXACT SAME CLINIC and can truthfully say you are totally full of BS. So we've gone from smelly people to the actual waiting room always smelling foul? And your doctor sucks too and all of the support staff and case managers?

rrrright.

You know, you've been complaining about one thing or another ever since you showed up on this forum. Now, a rant from time to time is a cleansing experience but personally you might want to print out your older posts and give them a second look. I realize you're having some crisis episodes but seeing as how I've gone to the same clinic for close to a decade, and have found the quality of care there better or equal to the two private doctors in very expensive Manhattan neighborhoods I once had, I just find this all too unbelievable.

Maybe instead of going on and on about it in an internet thread that will do nothing to resolve what you perceive as an issue, you should make an appointment with Jane Shull -- one of the hardest working people I've ever encountered in HIV services. And if you don't bring this up with her, in person, then you're not being a serious person.

And yes, I want to hear back from you on this thread when you've spoken to her. You should also talk to Dr. Karam Mounzer as he is the lead medical director. He's my personal doctor there and I know 110% for sure he'd want to know about anything like this, as would Jane. Shit or get off the pot, as they say.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 03:14:36 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline buginme2

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I read two articles today in the paper that kind of show just how big of a problem homelessness in America is and how it's getting worse and the division society is making between the haves and the have nots.


In Columbia South Carolina the city council has voted to evict all homeless people from the city (from living on the street).  Basically you have three choices: go to a shelter, jail, or leave town. 

Reasons for this, people don't feel safe and the business community is afraid it will hurt business. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/us/south-carolina-city-takes-steps-to-evict-homeless-from-downtown.html?hp&_r=0

Another news article in today's paper was how rents in many places are so high that they are just unaffordable for many.  The Seattle Times had an article how the average rent in the city has now reached about $2200 per month.  For someone making the minimum wage or even substantially above that you would be hard pressed to find something affordable. 

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2021673014_rentincreasesxml.html

IMHO this is all a symptom of how our society is becoming increasingly polarized both politically, socially, and economically.  There are more and more obstacles being placed on people preventing them from achieving economic freedom and a path out of poverty. 

Is is kind of related to the thread, just something to think about...maybe it would have been better to post in the economic thread but this one was more exciting.


Offline phillypinko

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Except you are failing to mention that I GO TO THE EXACT SAME CLINIC and can truthfully say you are totally full of BS. So we've gone from smelly people to the actual waiting room always smelling foul? And your doctor sucks too and all of the support staff and case managers?

rrrright.

You know, you've been complaining about one thing or another ever since you showed up on this forum. Now, a rant from time to time is a cleansing experience but personally you might want to print out your older posts and give them a second look. I realize you're having some crisis episodes but seeing as how I've gone to the same clinic for close to a decade, and have found the quality of care there better or equal to the two private doctors in very expensive Manhattan neighborhoods I once had, I just find this all too unbelievable.

Maybe instead of going on and on about it in an internet thread that will do nothing to resolve what you perceive as an issue, you should make an appointment with Jane Shull -- one of the hardest working people I've ever encountered in HIV services. And if you don't bring this up with her, in person, then you're not being a serious person.

And yes, I want to hear back from you on this thread when you've spoken to her. You should also talk to Dr. Karam Mounzer as he is the lead medical director. He's my personal doctor there and I know 110% for sure he'd want to know about anything like this, as would Jane. Shit or get off the pot, as they say.
I saw Dr. John Turner from 1992 until 1998 at Graduate hospital. He moved to the Lax center. Joe Ondercin was a PA who worked under Doctor Turner. I had known Joe since 1992. When Dr. Turner retired I started seeing Joe. Without warning Joe disappeared from the Lax center about two years ago. Since Joe left the Lax center there has been a steady decline in the quality of care I've received. I've had problems completely ignored. Rather then make appointments with staff and tell them how to run their clinic im just going to switch to U of P. I don't think i'll have to tolerate a room filled with loud smelly people at the office of an infectious disease/HIV specialist at U of P. I also don't think I will have to bring health problems up over and over again without them getting treated.

Offline phillypinko

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You have talked about rejection and being judged in allot of your post so I'm wondering if you feel the way you do about people less fortunate as a way to feel better about yourself .

You may not be able to change the world but you can make a difference in your corner of it .
No. I will say it again. I don't want to sit in an over crowded waiting room that smells so bad it gives me a migraine. Not liking the smell of filth does not make me someone who is looking for a way to feel better about myself it makes me someone who does not like the smell of filth...PERIOD...NO FURTHER NEED FOR ANALYSIS!!!!

Offline Miss Philicia

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I'll be at the Lax Center twice in the coming few weeks -- can't wait to inhale this "new scent" you've discovered. And it doesn't surprise me that you are refusing my suggestion to bring the issue up with the appropriate two directors. I'm sure it doesn't surprise anyone else here either.

ps: homeless people go to the U-Penn's services too, and guess what -- Dr. Mounzer from the Lax Center is affiliated with their program: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/idd/mounzer.html

I bet he imports more stink. Maybe what you really need to do is move out to the suburbs. King of Prussia smells like gardenias.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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In Columbia South Carolina the city council has voted to evict all homeless people from the city (from living on the street).  Basically you have three choices: go to a shelter, jail, or leave town.
and what's wrong with having a roof over your head, a bed, and food?  ???
isn't a shelter a viable alternative to being homeless? or are you suggesting that living out on the street is a good thing? Should we just leave homeless people homeless and hungry??

you might want to see the post I posted earlier that includes the Columbia emergency plan, if you missed it.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline buginme2

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and what's wrong with having a roof over your head, a bed, and food?  ???
isn't a shelter a viable alternative to being homeless? or are you suggesting that living out on the street is a good thing? Should we just leave homeless people homeless and hungry??

you might want to see the post I posted earlier that includes the Columbia emergency plan, if you missed it.

There's nothing wrong with that at all.  Besides those weren't my words they were what was written in the New York Times article I was referencing.

However, I do have a question.  Lets just say a homeless person doesn't want to go to a shelter for whatever reason.  Should they be subject to jail or run out of town?

Offline Miss Philicia

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and what's wrong with having a roof over your head, a bed, and food?  ???
isn't a shelter a viable alternative to being homeless? or are you suggesting that living out on the street is a good thing? Should we just leave homeless people homeless and hungry??

you might want to see the post I posted earlier that includes the Columbia emergency plan, if you missed it.

If you were raped in a shelter or mugged would you enjoy being forced by government authorities to go to such a place? I agree people should be encouraged to go to one, and that they should be safe places but the truth is that they aren't always like that.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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I suspect that the program in Columbia will face a challenge in the courts sooner or later .

Some of the homeless people in my Chicago neighborhood hated the shelters and preferred the streets , sometime when it was extremely cold they would go from lack of a better choice .

Offline oksikoko

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and what's wrong with having a roof over your head, a bed, and food?  ???
isn't a shelter a viable alternative to being homeless? or are you suggesting that living out on the street is a good thing? Should we just leave homeless people homeless and hungry??

There are a lot of reasons a person may not want to be forced into a shelter. I stayed outside on purpose sometimes to avoid certain un-niceties. It all blurs to be honest, and (probably) due to some other traumatic stuff I was having a touch of the psychosis (haha, no really), but I think, as much as I didn't want to be in the shelter, I only did this three times (because it was very, very cold). But quite a few other days I found other ways to be inside without having to go back there. Just to keep the record balanced, the second shelter was a dream. I wouldn't mind living there now, except 1) now I have control over the cleanliness of my own bathroom, a privilege everyone should have, and 2) now I'm not required to attend classes on things like bathing, shopping and housecleaning.

I don't know anything about this news story. I'm just saying shelters, as nice as they are compared to the street, are not necessarily better than the street all the time.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline oksikoko

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If you were raped in a shelter or mugged would you enjoy being forced by government authorities to go to such a place? I agree people should be encouraged to go to one, and that they should be safe places but the truth is that they aren't always like that.

This.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline leatherman

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Besides those weren't my words they were what was written in the New York Times article I was referencing.
oh, ok. it wasn't until I searched for the word "jail" (not "choices") that I found what you paraphrased over there in that small quote under the picture and not in that article at all. Since it wasn't in the article, that's why I thought that was your thought/opinion

Should they be subject to jail or run out of town?
no. I guess we could leave them on the streets to be hungry, with no bed, and no health care or easy access to services. As an advocate for health care, I just think society has an obligation to try to help people have food, healthcare and shelter. Perhaps too, my opinion comes from knowing how cold and unforgiving winter can be in the north. While these homeless people her in SC may be quiet happy to crash on the sidewalks and in the foliage surrounding the State House, I think they should have a bed and a roof - for their own basic health needs.

I suspect that the program in Columbia will face a challenge in the courts sooner or later .
I'm sure it will, and that's probably why the city council is scheduling hearings, etc to design a long-term plan to deal with this situation

I agree people should be encouraged to go to one, and that they should be safe places but the truth is that they aren't always like that.
so what then? we don't offer any shelter because some shelter situations are bad?? Rapes and muggings are crimes and hopefully can be prosecuted by proper legal actions to correct those situations. It seems odd to focus on the fewer amount of people assaulted in shelters rather than focus on the large amounts of people who are helped by shelters.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline oksikoko

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so what then? we don't offer any shelter because some shelter situations are bad?? Rapes and muggings are crimes and hopefully can be prosecuted by proper legal actions to correct those situations. It seems odd to focus on the fewer amount of people assaulted in shelters rather than focus on the large amounts of people who are helped by shelters.

I think it's just the 'forced' part that troubles some people. Sure shelter should be available, but a good dose of PTSD shouldn't be forced on anyone seeking (or avoiding) shelter.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline buginme2

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Actually Leatherman what I said was in the article, 15th paragraph (it's also mentioned in the caption under the picture probably because it's such a powerful statement).

As far as offering shelter options.  solving the homeless situation requires more than offering shelter.  Go to downtown Seattle at night.  There are thousand of homeless people living in the streets and we have one of the if not the most social services available.  In fact we have vans that drive around downtown that give free rides to shelters to anyone that wants one yet hundreds of not thousands still live on the street. 

I don't guess to understand why, I've never been in that situation.  But it's naive and wrong to think it's ok to put someone in jailfor being a transient.

Offline Bowie-esq

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Drug addicts, clean, dirty, homeless, wealthy, middle class, gay straight bi lesbian transgender, smoker, drinker, coffee or tea, prostitute, washed, unwashed - are you a nice person with a kind heart? Then it doesn't matter who you are or what social situation you are in or from.

I find the best thing to do is give, always give within your means. Pass on your love, your hope and your dreams. Give people your hand without an expectation, without limits and without judgement.

To err is to be human, and we are all human.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 05:12:23 PM by Bowie-esq »
Infected: +\-01/2010

Tested positive 08/2010
28/07/11 CD4 420 9% v.l. 20500
16/10/11 CD4 320 10% v.l. 185000
10/11/11 begin Truvada/Viramune
29/12/11 CD4 410 13% v.l. 115
14/4/12 v.l. undetectable
05/7/12 CD4 520 19% v.l. UD
21/08/13 CD4 470 20% v.l. UD
19/12/13 CD4 430 23% v.l. UD

Offline Bowie-esq

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And yes I'm a European hippy living in Amsterdam...
Infected: +\-01/2010

Tested positive 08/2010
28/07/11 CD4 420 9% v.l. 20500
16/10/11 CD4 320 10% v.l. 185000
10/11/11 begin Truvada/Viramune
29/12/11 CD4 410 13% v.l. 115
14/4/12 v.l. undetectable
05/7/12 CD4 520 19% v.l. UD
21/08/13 CD4 470 20% v.l. UD
19/12/13 CD4 430 23% v.l. UD

Offline Tool man

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Bowie, you are just un-American!
Meet you at the Kloss in a few days for some grilled lamb.

TM
Like I tell my husband, "I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong."

Offline phillypinko

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I'll be at the Lax Center twice in the coming few weeks -- can't wait to inhale this "new scent" you've discovered. And it doesn't surprise me that you are refusing my suggestion to bring the issue up with the appropriate two directors. I'm sure it doesn't surprise anyone else here either.

ps: homeless people go to the U-Penn's services too, and guess what -- Dr. Mounzer from the Lax Center is affiliated with their program: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/idd/mounzer.html

I bet he imports more stink. Maybe what you really need to do is move out to the suburbs. King of Prussia smells like gardenias.
I had stress related tachycardia that was ignored by my doctor at the Lax center. My resting heart rate was well over 100. My psychiatrist takes my vitals so she treated it. I wake up with puss in my ears every morning and my doctor at the Lax center said to, "clean them with debrox". My psychiatrist said I clearly have serious infections in my ears and that the Lax centers treatment of my problems is bordering on negligent. As far as contacting the Lax center I'll say it again. IT IS NOT MY JOB TO POLICE HOW THE LAX CENTER FUNCTIONS. I WILL FIND A BETTER DOCTOR.

Offline aaware72

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This is the types of thread that want to to stay away from this board.  Can we not all be respectful?   :(
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline jkinatl2

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This is the types of thread that want to to stay away from this board.  Can we not all be respectful?   :(

You clearly missed the majority of this thread that was very respectful.

This thread is exactly the sort of thing this forum needs, to remind us that we are coming from all walks of life and to be respectful and mindful of that. There will undoubtedly be many more just like it. And i for one am happy to know that.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline aaware72

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You clearly missed the majority of this thread that was very respectful.

This thread is exactly the sort of thing this forum needs, to remind us that we are coming from all walks of life and to be respectful and mindful of that. There will undoubtedly be many more just like it. And i for one am happy to know that.

No Iíll have to disagree and I did read the thread.  The digs and insults just take away from all that is respectful.  I would have to agree with you that we need to as you said remember that "we are coming from all walks of life and to be respectful and mindful of thatĒ In the end has this thread really served a purpose?  Has it drawn people together over a common cause to better everyone?  I don't think so.  Sometimes things get lost in this world of non-verbal communication.  Instead reading into what someone is writing, make assumption and then making an attack based on those assumptions is just wrong, in my opinion and doesn't serve any good purpose.  If anything we should seek to understand and ask question before we jump on someone. 
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline aaware72

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From 1992 to 2000 I saw one of the top AIDS doctors here in Philly. When he retired I saw an associate of his who was just as good until two years ago when he left the office I was visiting. He left for a reason. The place used to have a clinic day once a week. Now every day is clinic day. Im not a snob I just don't like sitting in a room built for 10 people that is filled with 30 street people. I don't think it is to much to ask to wait in a waiting room that doesn't smell like a restroom at a football stadium. I have had a few health problems the last couple of years which were handled horribly. Now its time to find a new doctor for the first time since I tested positive in 92. WISH ME LUCK!!!! lol

Lets look at this post...  Does he degrade anyone?  Does he speak badly about anyone?  NO.  However by post number #3 on this thread he is being attacked for things he did not say and words he did not use.  In my opinion this thread got out of control right from the gate and in my opinion should of been shut down.  But then it was allowed to digress and the OP was put on the defense for no reason in my opinion.     
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline wolfter

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If anything we should seek to understand and ask question before we jump on someone.

I agree, we should seek to understand people before making assumptions.  Had the OP done that, this thread wouldn't exist.   :o

edited to add:  damn, got sucked back in.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline aaware72

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I agree, we should seek to understand people before making assumptions.  Had the OP done that, this thread wouldn't exist.   :o

edited to add:  damn, got sucked back in.

I'll have to disagree with you.  What assumptions did he make?  It appears to me that the practice increased the number of day they do clinic on, which in my opinion is good, however that allow the condition of the facility to deteriorate that seems that it may have caused good physicians and some client to leave to find a better place to work or have care.  This is what I took out of the OP post.  I don't live in the area, but if I did and was aware of a good place to go for care with good doctors I may suggested a place for this OP to go. 

I go to ID department at Mass General in Boston. They run a clinic here 2-3 times a week.  The staff there is professional and the facility is kept clean.  Matter of fact they just replace all the carpeting in the waiting room and rearranged the waiting area to accommodate more people.  Now if I experienced the same thing as the OP stated that the doctors were leaving and the facility was unsanitary then I would also look to find another place to seek healthcare.

I guess I'm guilty of reading into the original thread as everyone else, although what I took was a person who was frustrated with the current care he was receiving and looking for a cleaner and better facility where he could get care.  And that he has now had life experiences of what some of the less fortunate person may have to deal with to get basic care.
 
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline wolfter

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I'll have to disagree with you.  What assumptions did he make? 

did you read through the entire thread?  Most of us have no issue with his desire to change clinics if he has legitimate concerns about quality healthcare, but it progressed to issues unrelated to that.  His assumptions about all the homeless, smelly people being drug addicts and such, really hit a nerve with many of us.

When a vast majority disagree with someone's opinion, it might be time to reevaluate your beliefs.   ;)
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline aaware72

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Just keep in mind if we look at the original post none of this was mentioned.  Only  after the OP was attacked for, in my opinion, for no good reason did this thread digress.  It's sad. 

I see homeless all the time in the city I live. The problem has got worse and that in mainly, in my opinion, due to the reduction in mental heath program in my area.   

As for making the assumption that "all the homeless, smelly people being drug addicts"  The fact of the mater is the vast majority of the homeless have some sort of addition problem or mental health issue.

A couple years ago I lost everything and if it was not for family I could of become homeless.  I have battle additions of sorts over the years.  I can relate 
 
But lets remember this thread was not started talking about the homeless, drug addition, and mental health.  It was started about health care and went to this bad place that, in my opinion, served no purpose.  Have we helped the OP with find a new place for care in the area?  Have we solved the homeless issues?  Have we gained a better understanding of the problems and found solutions?  IDK maybe made some are now more aware of the issues homeless face...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 11:01:04 AM by aaware72 »
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Like I said, I go to the same clinic -- he lied in the first post about the waiting room. It isn't built for 10 people. It easily has 30 chairs in it, maybe more. Furthermore the room is never full to capacity. I've often gone and there are no more than five people in a room that can hold over 30. The place isn't full of homeless people who smell. I can only recall ever smelling another patient in close to a decade of going there. Clearly riding the subway is a more traumatizing environment. So yes, as I can speak with authority once he disclosed exactly which clinic he was referring to in Philadelphia his post was full of mistruths and insensitive comments.

Once I read these fabrications it kind of did for me with the thread. I can't -- and wont' -- speak to what his relationship was or wasn't with his doctor. But I still stand by my suggestion to bring relevant concerns up to the executive directors, yes even if he still plans on discontinuing service there. All he need do is write a letter.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline wolfter

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It's just too bad they all can't receive a monthly government check, section 8 housing and numerous other residual benefits that accompany being poor enough to qualify for section 8.   ;)

NUFF said on my part.  I notice my snarkiness coming through and I feel a hammer coming my way.   :o
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline aaware72

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Like I said, I go to the same clinic -- he lied in the first post about the waiting room. It isn't built for 10 people. It easily has 30 chairs in it, maybe more. Furthermore the room is never full to capacity. I've often gone and there are no more than five people in a room that can hold over 30. The place isn't full of homeless people who smell. I can only recall ever smelling another patient in close to a decade of going there. Clearly riding the subway is a more traumatizing environment. So yes, as I can speak with authority once he disclosed exactly which clinic he was referring to in Philadelphia his post was full of mistruths and insensitive comments.

Once I read these fabrications it kind of did for me with the thread. I can't -- and wont' -- speak to what his relationship was or wasn't with his doctor. But I still stand by my suggestion to bring relevant concerns up to the executive directors, yes even if he still plans on discontinuing service there. All he need do is write a letter.

I agree call BS for what it is, however you post was post #59 in this thread.  By this point this thread had digressed and served no purpose, in my opinion.  Should of be shut done long before it got to this point. 
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline Jeff G

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I agree call BS for what it is, however you post was post #59 in this thread.  By this point this thread had digressed and served no purpose, in my opinion.  Should of be shut done long before it got to this point. 

There has been some very good things that have come out of this thread . One of those things are that the clinic in question is a good facility and resource for people living with HIV that is staffed with hard working people .

I find it odd when people object to thread and come in to criticize all the participants when all they need to do is avoid the thread if its not to their liking .

Offline aaware72

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There has been some very good things that have come out of this thread . One of those things are that the clinic in question is a good facility and resource for people living with HIV that is staffed with hard working people .

I find it odd when people object to thread and come in to criticize all the participants when all they need to do is avoid the thread if its not to their liking .

No what is odd is that mods here let things go the way they did in this thread.  We have two different poster that spoke about this facility in PA.  I do not know either of these posters and who is more trustworthy and who is speaking the truth.  Then we had the mud slinging that happen.  This is my opinion and it seems my opinion is not wanted by you, but personal messages tell me that you are wrong!  But then again if someone can not take some constructive criticism then there is the real problem.  And I did not criticize "all" participant.  So whatever "good things" came from this thread are over shadowed my all the negativity in my opinion.  If someone here does agree with what someone says then they should be constructive in their response and remain respectful.  Maybe you need to poll the almost 2000 persons that have viewed this thread to get a real feeling of what people think of it.  Maybe I am wrong with my opinion, but then again they are just my opinion and I do not see a issue expressing those opinions.  As far as I am concern I have not been disrespectful in any of my posts and I have only expressed my thoughts in a respectful way.     
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline Joe K

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Just keep in mind if we look at the original post none of this was mentioned.  Only  after the OP was attacked for, in my opinion, for no good reason did this thread digress.  It's sad. 

I see homeless all the time in the city I live. The problem has got worse and that in mainly, in my opinion, due to the reduction in mental heath program in my area.   

As for making the assumption that "all the homeless, smelly people being drug addicts"  The fact of the mater is the vast majority of the homeless have some sort of addition problem or mental health issue.

A couple years ago I lost everything and if it was not for family I could of become homeless.  I have battle additions of sorts over the years.  I can relate 
 
But lets remember this thread was not started talking about the homeless, drug addition, and mental health.  It was started about health care and went to this bad place that, in my opinion, served no purpose.  Have we helped the OP with find a new place for care in the area?  Have we solved the homeless issues?  Have we gained a better understanding of the problems and found solutions?  IDK maybe made some are now more aware of the issues homeless face...

Since the OP had no problem in stating his issues and defending his opinions, I'm curious on why you feel the need to overload the thread with your opinions and assumptions.  Rather than offering anything constructive, you come into the thread to belittle those who responded and our moderators.  You post multiple replies that all say the same thing, however, it's not your job to moderate these forums.

You also just had to throw in that comment about the homeless, that I noted above, when you know no such thing, as again, it's just your opinion.  I find folks like you tiring, as you seek to drain all that is good around you.  Rather than just plainly stating your displeasure with the thread, or better yet, just passing it by, you decided to rekindle the flames with baseless assumptions about what folks did or did not say.

Hopefully you are now happy, having pissed all over this thread and what I take away from your participation, says a lot more about you, than anyone who responded in this thread.

Joe

Offline aaware72

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I find folks like you tiring, as you seek to drain all that is good around you.  Rather than just plainly stating your displeasure with the thread

Joe

Hi Joe

That is what I did with my original response in this thread, which was plainly state my displeasure with this thread.  All my other responses have been in response directly to post directed at myself.  If you find me tiring then block me or ignore me.

As for your bold area of my text.  (see page 4) on the follow report:

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Adminstration (2011) Current Statistics on the Prevalence and Characteristics of People Experiencing Homelessness in the United States.  Retrieved on August 28, 2013, from http://homeless.samhsa.gov/ResourceFiles/hrc_factsheet.pdf

As you can see the comment inregards to the homeless with substance abuse and mental health issues is not just my opinion, but a supported fact from a reputable source.
 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 12:47:15 PM by aaware72 »
"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline BT65

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The quality of the op's medical care was not the issue, though it has been found out he is telling untruths.

The issue was the op's denigrating a certain demographic when he himself faces mental health issues, poverty etc.    Putting oneself above another is intolerable. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline jkinatl2

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As a moderator, I have a special antipathy for people who enter a thread that might or might notbe/have been contentious and fan the flames by passive-aggressively stating that "it's threads like these that make me afraid to post."

Especially when it seems obvious that it's threads like these that actively motivate aforementioned person to post, in order to judge the quality of the thread and the discourse.

Lots of decent and good things came from this thread, despite Moderator Jeff being used as a punching bag from several members. Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown, right?

Thing is, threads like this serve a real positive and important purpose. This forum has a great diversity of people who are representative of all income levels. Up until about ten years ago there was a legitimate mantra regarding HIV for the newly diagnosed.

Prepare to be Poor.

It was the absolute truth, as only the most well-off with great insurance OR the most poor on Medicare/RyanWhite were afforded any decent care (if they got care at all beyond stabilization). Even now, as the Affordable Care Act rolls slowly out, cost of and access to treatment remain a HUGE and often overlooked factor in successful treatment.

disparaging poor people or homeless people on this forum is what may keep THEM from participating if it isn't called out, and called out harshly.

If that offends other peoples' sensitivities, then tough. There are other online forums for HIV support. If I recall, a member posted here a while back looking to set up a support system or group for the more well-to-do. And in his forum he can disparage the great unwashed all that he wants.

We don't do that here, and when it happens it will be struck down hard. Because frankly I care more about a desperate person with nowhere else to turn than I do with a well-connected person who just doesn't want to be reminded of the poor, sick, and homeless among us.

And according to a shockingly large portion of the HIV negative community, anyone with HIV is deserving of scorn, derision, judgment and ostricization. To many people, including doctors, being HIV alone makes us the Great Unwashed.

Divvying up our ranks by assumption of privilege simply dilutes our ability to advocate for one another, and serves no helpful purpose other than scaring away the people who might need this resource because they have no others. No supportive family, no friends, not even a computer other than a public one at a library.

in a way, and if you simply must delineate importance, those disenfranchised people need this resource more. Because without us, there literally might be no way for them to understand and address this disease in a way that will literally save their lives.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline phillypinko

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Lets look at this post...  Does he degrade anyone?  Does he speak badly about anyone?  NO.  However by post number #3 on this thread he is being attacked for things he did not say and words he did not use.  In my opinion this thread got out of control right from the gate and in my opinion should of been shut down.  But then it was allowed to digress and the OP was put on the defense for no reason in my opinion.     
There is no point in arguing with them. Their conditioning is Pavlovian. They are politically correct zombies and react to certain stimuli (politically incorrect words or language) with pre-programed conditioned responses (outrage). They are incapable of critical thinking once the conditioned response is triggered. You notice they completely ignored my post about having puss running out of my ears and a high heart rate ignored by my doctor. The story line is that im a bad person for looking down on others but its ok for them to look down on me. The mental gymnastics they have to perform to adhere to their story line is rather fascinating from a clinical perspective.

Offline skeebo1969

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From 1992 to 2000 I saw one of the top AIDS doctors here in Philly. When he retired I saw an associate of his who was just as good until two years ago when he left the office I was visiting. He left for a reason. The place used to have a clinic day once a week. Now every day is clinic day. Im not a snob I just don't like sitting in a room built for 10 people that is filled with 30 street people. I don't think it is to much to ask to wait in a waiting room that doesn't smell like a restroom at a football stadium. I have had a few health problems the last couple of years which were handled horribly. Now its time to find a new doctor for the first time since I tested positive in 92. WISH ME LUCK!!!! lol

If a person has to say they are not something, it usually means they realize they are.  It's your right though, just quit trying to defend what you made initially obvious.  If you didn't want to be around homeless people seeking the same medical attention that you are you picked the wrong place to air out your negative views about them. 


 


I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Joe K

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There is no point in arguing with them. Their conditioning is Pavlovian. They are politically correct zombies and react to certain stimuli (politically incorrect words or language) with pre-programed conditioned responses (outrage). They are incapable of critical thinking once the conditioned response is triggered. You notice they completely ignored my post about having puss running out of my ears and a high heart rate ignored by my doctor. The story line is that im a bad person for looking down on others but its ok for them to look down on me. The mental gymnastics they have to perform to adhere to their story line is rather fascinating from a clinical perspective.

Nice try using psycho-babble to justify your intolerance of the less fortunate.  I suppose, if you can't dazzle us with your brilliance, you can always try to baffle us with your bullshit.

Joe

Offline phillypinko

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Nice try using psycho-babble to justify your intolerance of the less fortunate.  I suppose, if you can't dazzle us with your brilliance, you can always try to baffle us with your bullshit.

Joe

See!

Offline wolfter

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There is no point in arguing with them. Their conditioning is Pavlovian. They are politically correct zombies and react to certain stimuli (politically incorrect words or language) with pre-programed conditioned responses (outrage). They are incapable of critical thinking once the conditioned response is triggered. You notice they completely ignored my post about having puss running out of my ears and a high heart rate ignored by my doctor. The story line is that im a bad person for looking down on others but its ok for them to look down on me. The mental gymnastics they have to perform to adhere to their story line is rather fascinating from a clinical perspective.

This is like a bad movie that I keep watching just to see how it ends.  I don't think anyone missed your comments about your medical issues.  I simply have a difficult time offering support when someone is denigrating others while asking for empathy. 

Adhering to your story line is also rather fascinating.  Considering the vast majority here have suggested that you reconsider your views, it's telling that you refuse to consider that you may have been inappropriate. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline phillypinko

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This is like a bad movie that I keep watching just to see how it ends.  I don't think anyone missed your comments about your medical issues.  I simply have a difficult time offering support when someone is denigrating others while asking for empathy. 

Adhering to your story line is also rather fascinating.  Considering the vast majority here have suggested that you reconsider your views, it's telling that you refuse to consider that you may have been inappropriate.
That's what is so psychotic about all of this. What exactly are my "views"?

 


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