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Author Topic: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?  (Read 1547 times)

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Offline Peterdenmark

  • Member
  • Posts: 80
Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« on: August 17, 2013, 04:08:22 AM »
Hi again,

Being new to this I have a lot of questions, I hope u will understand.

I actually use Google before I post here, so plz don't think I'm lazy about seeking an answer ::)

Went to my doc yesterday.

I asked why I newer get my cd4 in percentage ?
She said, it's not important.... But I read here, that you guys talk a lot about this.

Do u use the cd4 and the cd8 to calculate the cd4 %?

From the blodtest paper yesterday it said:

Cd4 0,1, which my doc said was 100 cd4
Cd8 2,9, which I then believe must be 2900 ? Or ?

Can anyone tell or translate the above, to something that make sense for me ?

Have a nice weekend :)

Peter




Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,885
  • the one and original newt
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2013, 05:24:44 AM »
Hello Peter

CD4 count measures the actual number of CD4 cells (in a drop of blood). CD4% measures he proportion of all white blood cells that are CD4 cells.

The test for CD4 count will also give the CD4%. If you want the result, ask for it. Usually these match up to a degree. A CD4 count of 200 usually equals a CD4% of 12-15%. A CD4 count of 500+ usually equals a CD4% of 29% or more. If they are different eg low CD4 count/high % then it could be useful to understand both

A CD4 count of 100 is low and puts you at risk of serious opportunistic infections. Your doc should be giving you drugs to prevent PCP, a serious type of pneumonia casued by a fungus, until your CD4 count rises to over 200-250. And of course, treatment for your HIV.

CD8 cells are the killer cells in the immune system. They are high when there is something to kill off, like untreated HIV. HIV treatment will stop the HIV virus reproducing and allow your immune system to become more normal, ie CD4 count rise and CD8 count fall.

Hope this helps

Good luck

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Peterdenmark

  • Member
  • Posts: 80
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2013, 08:41:23 AM »
Hi Matt

Thank you so much, for yr informative answer :)

Actually I asked about the cd4 In %, and since it wasnt on my paper, she uset a calculator and told me the nummer was 3,4% which i find incorrect.

I know i am sensitive now, but im not on Bactrim, because of the TB and the hiv med, already give me problem.

They Will maybe start with Bactrim In november when i am finishen with TB.
Furthermore she Said - that due to my UD, its onlikely i Will get more OI.

Happy for yr reply - and the cd8 , what does they dó - and does that number matter ?

Kind regards

Peter

Offline Peterdenmark

  • Member
  • Posts: 80
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2013, 11:34:17 AM »
Hi Matt

Thank you so much, for yr informative answer :)

Actually I asked about the cd4 In %, and since it wasnt on my paper, she uset a calculator and told me the nummer was 3,4% which i find incorrect.

I know i am sensitive now, but im not on Bactrim, because of the TB and the hiv med, already give me problem.

They Will maybe start with Bactrim In november when i am finishen with TB.
Furthermore she Said - that due to my UD, its onlikely i Will get more OI.

Happy for yr reply - and the cd8 , what does they dó - and does that number matter ?

Kind regards

Peter

Hi again Matt,

I was looking at yr answer again, and now I can see that U also informed me about the cd8.
Sorry, I didn't see that before.

I was in Copenhagen with family, and was online via my IPhone - and think that made it difficult to see the entire text.

Here from my home the screen is better, but writing here is annoying - because my iPad continues to correct my spelling into Danish - so forgive my spelling..... ::) ::)

Kind regards

Peter

Offline Newguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2013, 04:05:53 PM »
Hi Peterdenmark

In addition to Matt's informative post, CD4 cells are helper cells. They don't actually kill any invader (viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasite) but rather they "help activate" other cells and or processes that directly kill these invaders. CD8 cells actually kill whatever they are meant to kill.

I don't understand evolutionary speaking why CD4 cells would act as an intermediate between pathogen and protection but this is what happens and there is some advantage obviously or else this would not be the case.

Best

Offline Peterdenmark

  • Member
  • Posts: 80
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2013, 04:20:20 PM »
Hi Peterdenmark

In addition to Matt's informative post, CD4 cells are helper cells. They don't actually kill any invader (viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasite) but rather they "help activate" other cells and or processes that directly kill these invaders. CD8 cells actually kill whatever they are meant to kill.

I don't understand evolutionary speaking why CD4 cells would act as an intermediate between pathogen and protection but this is what happens and there is some advantage obviously or else this would not be the case.

Best

Hi Newguy

And thank you, for spending time here :)

So, instead of calling our cd4 guys small soldiers, it's actually the cd8 that's doing the tough job.
Problem is just, that if there's not enough cd4, all or many of the cd8 will be inactive ....

So basically I have a huge army inside me, ready to fight - but the radio/controlsystem is not working - fuck,  >:(

Crazy world, 4 months ago I never heard about cd4 etc  ;)

I wish u a nice day, and again thanks a lot for yr feedback here.

Warm thoughts

Peter

Offline Newguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 04:39:32 PM »
Hi Peter

I am not immunologist however it was the toughest course I took during my Science training. In fact that was ten years ago when I studied it and that text book is completely outdated. The thing is Peter Immunology is VERY VERY VERY VERY complex and no where near being fully understood even by the top "Immunologists" It is a very new field of science (relatively speaking) and it is probably HIV itself has been a huge catalyst into the field's development. The immune system is comprised of may types of cells and processes and CD4 are just one part of it, and obviously a very important part of it.

CD4 and CD8 are a type of cell called T-cells. T stands for Thymus where they differentiate. B-cells which are activated by CD4 cells and produce antibodies differentiate in the Bone marrow hence the B. These three cells are involved in adaptive immunity (memory type immunity which is the second life of defense once certain barriers have been breached) I think dendrites are in this category too. These cells are collectively called Lymphocytes because of their production in the lymph nodes throughout the body.

The first line of defense called Innate immunity involves a slew of cells and this part of the immune system produces no memory. These cells just gobble up the invaders and dispose of them. For the most part, the skin being the largest protective barrier, the innate immune system takes care of the majority of infections and never reach the adaptive response.

Obviously my crude summary is very limited and the point is to give you an idea how incredibly complex the immune system is. However, when you consider the last thirty years of the HIV epidemic it is incredible how much knowledge has been gained. Absolutely astronomical when you think of all the millions that died from bacterial infections which it took thousands of years to discover penicillin (early 20th century). Now put that into perspective and compare to the HIV epidemic it is amazing just how far human society has come.

Best



So, instead of calling our cd4 guys small soldiers, it's actually the cd8 that's doing the tough job.
Problem is just, that if there's not enough cd4, all or many of the cd8 will be inactive ....

So basically I have a huge army inside me, ready to fight - but the radio/controlsystem is not working - fuck,  >:(

Crazy world, 4 months ago I never heard about cd4 etc  ;)

I wish u a nice day, and again thanks a lot for yr feedback here.

Warm thoughts

Peter
[/quote]

Offline Peterdenmark

  • Member
  • Posts: 80
Re: Cd4 vs cd8, low 4 and high 8- good or bad ?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 05:00:10 PM »
Hi Peter

I am not immunologist however it was the toughest course I took during my Science training. In fact that was ten years ago when I studied it and that text book is completely outdated. The thing is Peter Immunology is VERY VERY VERY VERY complex and no where near being fully understood even by the top "Immunologists" It is a very new field of science (relatively speaking) and it is probably HIV itself has been a huge catalyst into the field's development. The immune system is comprised of may types of cells and processes and CD4 are just one part of it, and obviously a very important part of it.

CD4 and CD8 are a type of cell called T-cells. T stands for Thymus where they differentiate. B-cells which are activated by CD4 cells and produce antibodies differentiate in the Bone marrow hence the B. These three cells are involved in adaptive immunity (memory type immunity which is the second life of defense once certain barriers have been breached) I think dendrites are in this category too. These cells are collectively called Lymphocytes because of their production in the lymph nodes throughout the body.

The first line of defense called Innate immunity involves a slew of cells and this part of the immune system produces no memory. These cells just gobble up the invaders and dispose of them. For the most part, the skin being the largest protective barrier, the innate immune system takes care of the majority of infections and never reach the adaptive response.

Obviously my crude summary is very limited and the point is to give you an idea how incredibly complex the immune system is. However, when you consider the last thirty years of the HIV epidemic it is incredible how much knowledge has been gained. Absolutely astronomical when you think of all the millions that died from bacterial infections which it took thousands of years to discover penicillin (early 20th century). Now put that into perspective and compare to the HIV epidemic it is amazing just how far human society has come.

Best


WOW

I'm truly impressed. But don't worry, I did understand that I don't understand these processes - nor do i try to, and my answer was meant 50% as a joke, and 50% as a line I could remember. :) lol

The knowledge in this forum is amazing

I'm not educated in science or anything nearby, but I'm curious as hell, and after my first chock(being poz) I prefer to communicate, listen and learn.

And it is magic how fast the learning curve and medicine are improving in regards to HIV - actually we are all blessed, compared to the unfortunate ones in the early 80.

Just some moths ago there was actually some Danish professors doing a press conference, stating they are now closer to a cure for HIV.

Unfortunately, they were wrong, but..... Learning from the last 20 years, I think we are allowed to have hope.
Even my personal doctor tell me, it's only a question of time..... Hopefully we will all witness this.

Enjoy your weekend , and thanks :)

 


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