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Author Topic: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions  (Read 1370 times)

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Offline Mike232

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Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« on: August 05, 2013, 06:20:26 PM »
Hi Ann & Andy,

Thanks for your time and care that you put into this resource - its nice to have somewhere to ask questions.

Yesterday, I messed around with another young guy like myself - we are both healthy but at points I stupidly inserted my penis inside him without a condom briefly a number of times, perhaps 3 or 4 times but probably not all the way in. I was inside him each time for less than probably 10 seconds. So maybe 40 seconds all up.

I'm a little concerned now because he told me he had receptive unprotected sex with a friend of his about 3 weeks go.

We discussed this after we messed around and he said he hadn't been tested since March, but he would go today. He did go today and has sent me his result from an HIV rapid antibody test - negative.. which is great.

I tested negative a couple of weeks ago with a HIV Combo test also.

I have a couple of questions regarding this, and apologies if you answer them all the time - I just would like some specific clarification is all..

1. I know that he has a negative result from today, but what if the guy that he slept with ~3 weeks ago was positive and infected him? Is around 21 days enough for current antibody only tests to show reactivity sometimes? How reassured should I be from his negative result - or not at all?

2. If the above was the case, how likely is HIV transmission for me, considering the amount of time I was inside him (and I am circumsized). If he WAS in fact positive but didnt have detectable antibodies yet - and wouldn't that mean that I would be at greater risk because his viral load would be huge? So even if I was only inside him briefly, I could have been infected?

3. I don't believe there was enough rough activity from what we did to see any visible blood, but what about rectal secretions? That is a possible way of transmission, right?

4. We showered together first and he washed his ass out with a shower lotion - does this do anything as far as making the environment inside the rectum less hospitable for HIV to survive - and also remove the mucus lining which apparently can contain high levels of HIV?

5. Have you guys ever heard from someone in a similar situation such as mine who ended up being infected

6. I'm considering whether PEP is an option or perhaps overkill? I'd rather overkill than end up being positive though...

Thank you again..

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 06:43:12 PM »
Hi Mike , I will address each question under what I quoted from you .

1. I know that he has a negative result from today, but what if the guy that he slept with ~3 weeks ago was positive and infected him? Is around 21 days enough for current antibody only tests to show reactivity sometimes? How reassured should I be from his negative result - or not at all?

You can never base your HIV status on another persons status , The only way to know your status is to test at the appropriate time . You had unprotected sex and have had a risk for HIV . You cant test 6 weeks past the incidence and again at 3 months to confirm the result . 


2. If the above was the case, how likely is HIV transmission for me, considering the amount of time I was inside him (and I am circumsized). If he WAS in fact positive but didnt have detectable antibodies yet - and wouldn't that mean that I would be at greater risk because his viral load would be huge? So even if I was only inside him briefly, I could have been infected?

Its impossible to give odds on a HIV risk or transmission because there are too many variables to consider to be accurate . Its rare for the insertive partner to go on and test positive after a condom break or brief insertion but low risk is not no risk so you must get tested .   

3. I don't believe there was enough rough activity from what we did to see any visible blood, but what about rectal secretions? That is a possible way of transmission, right?

Sex doesn't have to rough or visible blood to be present for a HIV transmission to take place . Rough sex could contribute to a risk but the absence of rough sex is not a factor .

4. We showered together first and he washed his ass out with a shower lotion - does this do anything as far as making the environment inside the rectum less hospitable for HIV to survive - and also remove the mucus lining which apparently can contain high levels of HIV?

You cant wash away HIV from a rectum , condoms used correctly and consistently are the gold standard of prevention .

5. Have you guys ever heard from someone in a similar situation such as mine who ended up being infected

I personally have not .

6. I'm considering whether PEP is an option or perhaps overkill? I'd rather overkill than end up being positive though...

You are unlikely to test positive after the low risk incident but that is your and your docs call . I personally think PEP is not indicated but that's my opinion .

 To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:22:40 PM by Jeff G »

Offline Mike232

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2013, 06:48:52 PM »
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response, but I would appreciate if Andy & Ann would be able to weigh in with their specific responses please.

I understand that you guys are dealing with a lot of people, but if you are going to give form responses as if you are a robot, then there is not much point of having a message board.

I've asked specific questions and I would like specific answers that are interpreted through Andy & Ann if possible please. I've taken the time to pose specific questions, and would appreciate specific answers also that are considered before just giving a blanket response.

Thank you.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 07:26:10 PM »
As you wish ... I stand by my reply and think you may be happy to learn both Ann and Andy will confirm what I have shared with you .

Too bad you used up one of your questions on nonsense and snark .
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:49:46 PM by Jeff G »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 02:59:13 AM »
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response, but I would appreciate if Andy & Ann would be able to weigh in with their specific responses please.

I understand that you guys are dealing with a lot of people, but if you are going to give form responses as if you are a robot, then there is not much point of having a message board.

I've asked specific questions and I would like specific answers that are interpreted through Andy & Ann if possible please. I've taken the time to pose specific questions, and would appreciate specific answers also that are considered before just giving a blanket response.

Thank you.

You know when you click on the POZ.COM forums, and see the AM I INFECTED section? Underneath that line of text you can read: Moderator: jkinatl2

That's me. I, along with Ann, Andy, and Global Moderator Jeff (along with two or three carefully chosen others) moderate this forum. You are not going to get a different answer from any of us.

As the moderator of this particular forum I would also like to chime in and agree with moderator Jeff's assessment of your situation, and your attitude.

We do not give out robotic answers. Reading Jeff's thoughtful and detailed reply, it certainly wasn't cobbled together. Your insult to him was an insult to all of us who spend hours of unpaid time thoughtfully and thoroughly responding to questions.

If some of our answers look similar (look at ANN's answers, why don't you?) It's because we get asked the exact same questions time and time again. There are only so many ways to parse the science of HIV transmission, and many of us (like Ann and myself) have been answering questions and doing risk assessment here for over ten years. It's been a LONG time since we have had an unfamiliar situation arise.

And yours is not one of them. Frankly, Jeff replied rather more thoroughly and thoughtfully than Ann or I would likely have replied.

Now I will leave you to the good graces of Andy and Ann.




edited by Ann to fix quote coding - and only quote coding
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 03:56:14 AM by Ann »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2013, 05:16:10 AM »
Mike,

I've got nothing to add to what Jeff told you. I would have given you the same answers.

I will say this though - if you keep playing with fire, you're eventually going to get burnt. Please stop putting your penis inside other people's anuses without a condom on.

Hopefully you'll come out of this ok, but the only way to know is to test at the appropriate time.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Mike232

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2013, 01:22:39 PM »
Hi Ann &  jkinatl2,

Thanks for your responses. To clarify, I wasn't being snarky at Jeff - like I said originally, I appreciate that you guys give your time up to provide this resource.

However, I did pose some specific questions, for example, like level of infectiousness of rectal mucus and Jeff did not answer the question at all - it appears he simply picked up on a keyword 'rough' that was included as part of my question and then gave a prepackaged response relating to the fact that sex doesn't have to be rough for transmission to occur. That simply was not the question. This is why I replied stating that there doesn't seem to be a point in having a live forum available for specific responses if the actual questions posed aren't even addressed.

If you wouldn't mind, could you please give your viewpoints on the following questions - if you dont have the information regarding the specific questions, please just state that instead of falling back on the statement that you need to use condoms and to test at the 3 month mark.

1. I know that the guy I slept with had a negative result from yesterday, but what if the guy that he slept with ~3 weeks ago was positive and infected him?

Is around 21 days enough for current antibody only tests to show reactivity sometimes?

How reassured should I be from his negative result - or not at all?

2. If the above was the case, how likely is HIV transmission for me, considering the amount of time I was inside him (and I am circumcised)?

If he WAS in fact positive but didn't have detectable antibodies yet - and wouldn't that mean that I would be at greater risk because his viral load would be huge?

So even if I was only inside him briefly, I could have been infected?

3. I don't believe there was enough rough activity from what we did to see any visible blood, but what about rectal secretions?

Rectal secretions are able to provide a possible way of transmission, right?

4. We showered together first and he washed his ass out with a shower lotion - does this do anything as far as making the environment inside the rectum less hospitable for HIV to survive?

Also, would using some sort of shower lotion also aid in removing the mucus lining of the rectum which apparently can contain high levels of HIV?

5. Have you guys ever heard from someone in a similar situation such as mine who ended up being infected from a brief insertion?

6. I'm considering whether PEP is an option or perhaps overkill? I'd rather overkill than end up being positive though. This follows on from your response Ann that hopefully I'll come out of this OK - I'd rather nip that in the bud and go on PEP if you think that could be a possibility. I'd appreciate your risk assessment on this if possible please.

I do appreciate your time.

Thank you.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Brief Insertive Penetration - Risk Involved & Questions
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2013, 02:25:55 PM »
You're both overthinking this situation and trying to nail down some kind of assurance about your. The bottom line in all of this is that only an HIV test taken at the right time can accurately tell you that you're HIV negative. The earliest to test is 6 weeks. At that point if you are negative the likelihood is that you will test negative at 3 months for a conclusive result.

It's understandable that you are interested in someone else's negative result but in the final analysis for a number of reasons it is just cold assurance as far as being relevant to your status.

Your risk is lower than it would have been as a receptive partner. I would overall say from the details you have reported that your risk was relatively low. However, as far as doing PEP, which needs to be started the sooner the better to get maximum benefit, well that is something you have to decide. The meds can have side effects but you weigh that against the possibility of living with HIV, which is forever.

So that has to be your call.

Good luck however you choose to go.
Andy Velez

 


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