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Author Topic: I'm still terrified & sad  (Read 5030 times)

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Offline tippytu

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I'm still terrified & sad
« on: August 04, 2013, 05:19:27 PM »
Its been 3 months since my diagnoses & yes I've had some good days but for the most part I'm terrified & sat
D..I don't want to feel like this the rest of my life & to be honest I do think of suicide from time to time..because that feels like it would be easier than living with being scared sad & ashamed ..

I was in seroconversion when I was diagnosed so the Dr says I probably had been infected within the last 3 months...I've read a majority of people don't have symptoms for about 10 years...so sometimes I make myself feel slightly better by thinking I have at least that long before I get sick...I have researched & I know the meds now are great (& yes I am on them) but still I just have images in my head of myself wasting away & dying a miserable horrible death & everyone finding out why..

Its also taken a toll on my self esteem, I've never thought myself to be pretty but now when I look in the mirror I just see ugly...I don't want to feel this way anymore...I am on wellbutrin but dont feel like its strong enough..I just want to see my babies grow up & I don't want to be sick & I don't want to die before they do...my Dr says I'll live to see my grandchildren graduate but I don't feel that way& I want to live longer than that! My grandma is still alive & I graduated 15 years ago!

Sorry for rambling but I don't really have a lot of support & right now I just want to crawl out of my skin...

Offline eric48

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 05:36:01 PM »
Welcome to the furum

I'm still terrified & sad... Well... can sympathize with that, but, your doc is right, you'll live a long life, so stay put and enjoy

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 05:41:19 PM »
hi Tippy, i'm sorry that you are so sad and also concerned about your suicide thoughts.  Its normal to feel sad 3 months after a life changing event took place, but give yourself some time to adjust.  I had the same type of thoughts for a while after I was diagnosed, but things will get better.

You can live a normal, happy life and no reason why you wouldn't be able to see your babies grow up.

you have come here and this is a good place to start for support, there are a bunch of guys and gals on this site that are always willing to lend an ear or voice whenever you need.   If wellbutrin isn't working for you tell you doctor communication is key with your doctor.

These days I don't give HIV much of a thought,  I take my meds and see my dr every six months and just live my life like normal.  you cant let HIV take control over you.  You are no different than you were 3 months ago.
11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
06/10/2012  cd4-614, vl-UD
12/14/2012  cd4-764, vl-UD
09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 05:47:17 PM »
IMO you must be strong and start separating fear, fantasy, and ignorance, from facts.
You are a very recent infection. You are already on antivirals.  STOP reading about projections about people who have nothing to do with you.  10 years, 5 years, whatever, that's for untreated people.  YOU ARE TREATED.  There is a planet Earth worths of experience and science that says you are not dying of AIDS.  The images in your head of a horrible aids death are figments of your fears, not reality.

So, does that help contextualise the fear, on your list of "scared, sad & ashamed" ? First things first. Your doctor told you personally that you have your life ahead of you. Accept it.  We're telling you the same thing.   You have to start breathing and come to your senses and release this fear.

Then you will have the energy to deal with the sadness and the shame..  You have plenty of time to do this, you'll see, once you stop being afraid of HIV.

Its normal to feel all those things - fear, sadness, shame --- and a good long list of other emotions, upon diagnosis.

The shame you can overcome, again, with mind over emotions...   Sadness, maybe not so much, that just takes time..   As for the shame - this virus has no morals and its just a virus like the hundreds of viruses (1000s) that billions of people get every year.  Virus have no morals and people are not "bad" for catching them....  As for the bias, and the judgements - once you realise you don't need to be ashamed of being HIV+, you can have a lot of power to shrug off and combat bias and discrimination and judgement.  Fuck em really its their problem not yours.  Your task is to make your best life as planned.   Be shrewd about having HIV and don't let other people and cultural idiocies rule your brain.   
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 05:59:27 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Fisher

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »
Tips,

Just consider that every moment of your life your life is just beginning. With that, newness and adventure, and if you choose, great joy and happiness. Look forward to a long life of brilliance. But remember, when light shines, shadows will also be cast. Accept both and cherish the wonderful, unique being of light that you are. Sometimes easier said than done. . .
- fisher
09/22 CD 385 %22 VL UD
07/14 CD 391 %20 VL UD
04/14 CD 486 %23 VL <20
11/13 CD 351 %21  VL <20
10/13 CD 390 %16  VL <20
06/13 CD 315 %19  VL  22
02/13 CD 396 %14  VL <20
12/12 CD 392 %13  VL 320
11/12 CD 428 %13  VL 1200
*Started Meds: Atripla
10/12 CD 427 %11  VL 139000 -- 09/12 CD 408 %13 VL 92928
09/11 CD 745 %27 VL CLOT -- 10/10 CD 863 %29 VL 2782
10/09 CD 597 %30 VL 2537 -- 05/08 CD 809 %28 VL 1504
04/07 CD 797 %25 VL 3558 -- 11/06 CD 720 %28 VL 1214
06/05 CD 731 %25 VL 1575 -- 12/04 CD 1176 %30 VL 1329
01/04 CD 959 %26 VL 1011 -- 11/03 CD 1000 %28 VL 1581
12/02 CD 748 %28 -- 10/01 CD 860 %25
08/00 CD 1022 %28 -- 04/99 CD 854 %27
11/98 CD 899 %28 -- 02/97 CD 1400 %37
11/96 CD 1325  VL <500 -- 09/96 – Western Blot
05/83 – 04/98 - Monogamous Partner Being Negative
ARS - LA '82

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 12:01:21 AM »
I'm trying I really am but I just can't shake the despair I feel! I'm just so afraid of all the illnesses that are associated with HIV..& I really hate that I now feel like & think of myself as damaged goods...

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 01:28:21 AM »
I'm trying I really am but I just can't shake the despair I feel! I'm just so afraid of all the illnesses that are associated with HIV..& I really hate that I now feel like & think of myself as damaged goods...

Tippy,

     Please correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you on meds?  If you are and have good adherence you more than likely will never suffer from any HIV related illnesses.  Unless there's something you're not telling us, this is a thought you should embrace.   

      I know it's difficult because I've been in your shoes.  I wasted some years before I finally realized HIV plays absolutely no part in who I am.  It's merely something I have.  You are not damaged goods.

      I commend you for posting about these feelings.  It takes courage to do so, especially if you're feeling so worthless.  Whether you realize it or not every morning you wake up you have the ability to do the same things you did prior to diagnosis.   Whether that's simply enjoying a good cup of coffee or kicking the dog, life is still the same.

      (((hugs)))

PS How is the baby doing?

 

         

     

     
     
     

     
     
     

     
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 01:37:27 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Ann

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 05:15:40 AM »
Tippy, I've moved this thread into the Just Tested Poz section of the forums because the emotions you're feeling are what pretty much every person goes through when newly diagnosed. You may find it helpful to read other threads in this section as well.

With today's meds there's no reason to think you won't see your children graduate from high school and college, dance at their weddings, and watch your grandchildren's first steps and graduations. All sorts of things may intervene, but there's no reason to think anything aids-related will be one of them.

Do you let the thought of other possible tragic occurrences stop you from living your life? Why let hiv?

It's a virus, one that any human being can get. Do you feel "ashamed" or "damaged" when you have the flu? You shouldn't with hiv either. It's just a virus. You did something nearly every other adult on the planet has done at some time in their life - you had unprotected sex with a person you love. There's no shame in that.

You would be wise to get a referral from your doctor or ASO for a therapist. Having someone to talk through these feelings you're having face-to-face helps more than you may imagine.

And keep reaching out here too. We're here for you. We've all been there, done that in the early days of diagnosis and we're here to tell you that it DOES get better. Give it time and stop being so hard on yourself.

Hang in there, ok?

Hugs,
Ann
xxx
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 07:36:00 AM »
I'm just so afraid of all the illnesses that are associated with HIV..& I really hate that I now feel like & think of myself as damaged goods...
The fear is irrational.  You are taking stories and pictures from history and your imagination, and applying them to yourself. Are you ignorant about the current good prognosis? Especially the very excellent prognosis for people in your situation?  I think not.  If you are, say so, and we can send you links to the GOOD NEWS.

These fears of sickness and death are part of a rolling, irrational thinking process. 

Where are you reading about HIV, anyway....?  Read the lessons here. 


Most people are damaged goods.  There world is FILLED with idiots who are ready to point out why she is damaged goods, why that guy over there is damaged goods, why you are damaged goods.  There's a great big pile of stinking criteria.  It's not easy, but you will need to stop being ashamed of yourself, and have some confidence in your mind and body.    Then you will see - feel - that all this finger pointing is a collasal waste of energy and just limited people acting on dumb scripts...     

Its the same thing I said about hurt above.  You are afraid that you will hurt someone "because of HIV"?   The fear is of hurting people - we all have that fear - but you can fill in the blank about what reason or excuse you believe fuels the hurt....    The point is - don't get hurt. And don't hurt others.  And also - hurts going to happen in life...   

Remember, in your dark circling thoughts, you are not seeing that there are already many people who are not going to judge you, (or, maybe just a little bit).  People take things in stride.  HIV is just one piece of information about you.   

Our children.  Mom and Dad. Our families.  Our friends.  Colleagues.  People on support forums.  The world is filled with people who see us pretty much as the same.  Heck a lot of them may never know we are HIV+ and a lot of them might be capable of knowing that fact without altering their appreciation for who we are. 

If ANYONE you tell that you are HIV+, responds by saying "you are damaged goods, shameful, and you are dangerous and going to die" - please take a moment, if you care about this person, to educate them.  But don't waste too much time if its a lost cause.  Walk away from such energy drains, they will make your life miserable and be happy to see you dead, really.   

I hope you can see that would be the appropriate response to such a person. 

Unfortunately, you have to reverse your own same feelings, about yourself.  Soon as these are reversed, you will have the power to ward off society's bias. 



« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:43:28 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline ShazamsD

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 12:31:55 PM »
Every time you think of suicide.  Think of the little one and what you may rob them of. Who will show how to put lipstick on or talk about thier period.  They will need you for that.  To cry at first heartbreak of high school.   My mother left this world to early due to cancer.  She had attempted suicide as well and for years I thought it was because of something I had done.  That's a very heavy burden to pass down.  In time you will look back at this and realize how amazing your life is and that you have a chronic disease. And you have to take a pill everyday, but ya know what, I took a pill everyday before I was infected, it was called a multi vitamin. So this wont be an anchor in your life. In time it will help you appreciate the beauty in life even more.

If you were to think what life would be like for friends and family if you were struck down by life, like a car accident . I bet you'd be sad to not be there for all the things you'd miss seeing happen and share with them

So don't help yourself there on your own, you are worth way more then that. Love yourself because you k ow what? You deserve it.
5/25/2013 - tested positive ora quick
6/09/2013 - confirmed positive at clinic
7/02/2013 - cd4-5. Vl 3,896,558
8/19/2013 - cd4-501. Vl 4586

Offline MrT

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 01:17:57 PM »
tippytu. I sincerely feel your pain and heart ache, but trust me, the best is yet to come! The emotions running through you is normal. But whenever you feel extremely depressed and suicidal. Think of this....."The cure could be found tomorrow". The advancement in science and technology is getting more and more serious these days. The medication available now was never available 10 years ago!

I know no one prays to have HIV but remember many years ago, so many illness that can be cured with over the counter drugs killed millions and millions of people, before they had a breakthrough. So hang in there and live your life. it is only something you have to fight. LIFE IS A GIFT! The dead would wish they were in your shoes. Stay strong and God bless you

Offline Jeff G

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 01:55:15 PM »
Hi Mr T and welcome to the forum , Im happy you found us .

It would be nice to have an introduction so you tell us more about yourself . How long have you been living with HIV , your meds and things like that ?

Offline Martha

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 02:14:39 PM »
tippytu, It made me sad to read your post. I am not poz but my son was and 2 close friends are. This is how I look at life. We all are going to die. We don't know how or when though. We only have this moment and no guarantees for anything beyond it either. We make plans but sometimes life happens while we are making them. Live and love in the moment. If we try really hard to do that this journey we are on will be good and peaceful.

Offline eric48

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2013, 06:25:42 PM »
I'm trying I really am but I just can't shake the despair I feel! I'm just so afraid of all the illnesses that are associated with HIV..& I really hate that I now feel like & think of myself as damaged goods...

been though this too, myself...

crying and crying and crying, fainting in hospital, pharmacy, etc.

Understandable, but,  as Mecch said, I wasted good valuable time

Three years into treatment, now, my number are good and I am not as scared as I used to be.

Shit happens

but that S**t is not you ...

You're valuable. People will spend time and money to provide care and meds for you

HIV meds are not cheap and you will be treated many, many years.

That is because, even if you might think of yourself as damaged good, others around you don't.

You're valuable.

You're wonderful

Not pathetic

Just wonderful

Cheers up! Eric

NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 11:22:44 PM »
Thanks everyone...I am trying I really am...I'm pretty sure I was/am bi polar before all this happened so its only made my depression worse...also suffer from insomnia really bad I take ambient but with the baby I can't because I won't be able to wake up to take care of her

Skeebo thanks for asking so far she has had two negative pcr tests. .she is a good baby..

I am in counseling however the counselor has never dealt with anyone in my situation before

I'm also dealing with trying to not have negative feelings toward my husband for infecting me (no he didn't know he was positive) but I'm upset with him for not being more careful with his partners before we met..

Just a lot to deal with right now.. just wish I could sleep till I feel better..

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 04:18:36 AM »
Is it possible for your husband to take charge of the baby some nights so you can sleep?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 12:45:54 PM »
Not really he works off for weeks at a time...I guess when he's on he could

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 01:51:01 PM »
Family you could lean on? You sound exhausted, and that's probably feeding the dark thoughts.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2013, 03:07:35 PM »
Not really.  The only one who knows is my mom & she says she wishes I wouldn't have burdened her with this...& she lives two hours away...

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2013, 07:47:25 PM »
Wow your mom said that?  I'm sorry.
Something has got to give. People need to be told its time to step up to the plate.  Its so worrisome to hear the state of mind you are in.  Are there any govt social services available to you? I mean beside the counselor is there a professional social worker who can figure out some human aid for you on a regular basis? Church? If you are suicidal, your life is at stake, and by extension the well being of your child and family.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2013, 09:11:08 PM »
I live in a very very small town so there really aren't many resources
..too scared to tell anyone in church... even though I think of suicide I don't think I'd do it because of my kids...but some help would be nice

Offline Jeff G

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2013, 09:21:05 PM »
I live in a very very small town so there really aren't many resources
..too scared to tell anyone in church... even though I think of suicide I don't think I'd do it because of my kids...but some help would be nice

Hi Tippytu . I hope you know that the forum will be here for you as a source of support . If you are feeling overwhelmed or sad come here and talk about it . If you want , send PM's and you will find private support there . I urge you to also tell your doctor how desperate you feel sometime . Just remember suicide is fatal but you can survive HIV . 

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2013, 10:38:35 PM »
You wouldn't need to tell your minister that HIV is in the mix.  Postpartum depression, bi-polarity, overwhelmed with suicidal thoughts. Its a legitimate cry for help and you deserve some help.   
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2013, 11:23:31 PM »
I live in a very very small town so there really aren't many resources
..too scared to tell anyone in church... even though I think of suicide I don't think I'd do it because of my kids...but some help would be nice

Tippy,

  Mecch makes a very good point.   You could just go to your minister for counsel.  It helps talking to someone, especially those that are in tune to help people with this sort of thing.  I'm not religious by any means, but a couple of years ago I had a pastor who helped me through a very difficult stage.

  I don't know if this makes sense, but sometimes having an ear to listen to you helps you to hear yourself.

 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline tippytu

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2013, 11:31:42 PM »
I will take it in to consideration. I'm just really a private person. & have trouble. Communicating sometimes but I will think about it

Offline eric48

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2013, 05:34:45 PM »
having depression after giving birth (aka post partum depression) is a well known issue. You can use it as an excuse for getting help from people around you without disclosing the POZ status

Just a suggestion

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline Jeff G

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2013, 05:50:58 PM »
I cant endorse advice on seeking counseling and not being forthcoming with the real issue about why you are seeking it .

Many people deal with stigma , especially when they are newly poz and skirting the issue isn't going to solve that internal stigma , may even add to it in my opinion .

I do encourage to OP to seek out a way to share and be heard ... a good first step is to choose a place where you feel safe and secure enough to openly discuss ALL of what you are dealing with and not have to hold back from fear of judgment . I had the same issue at one point and I discussed it with my doctor and made it clear that I wasn't OK and needed help .
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 06:16:40 PM by Jeff G »

Offline mecch

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 06:50:28 AM »
Jeff, perhaps my words have been misunderstood?
I wouldn't advise someone to lie to a therapist or counselor, in the context of therapy. 

My feeling was that the OP Tippy4u is overwhelmed by daily life, and it would be good if someone could help out with the house, with the kid, to show that she is not alone in life, and so she could get some time to decompress.

Therapy would be great.  But, its apples and oranges.  A visiting helper - for instance someone in the congregation - wouldn't be there for counselling, rather to lend a helping hand.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 10:33:24 AM »
Jeff, perhaps my words have been misunderstood?
I wouldn't advise someone to lie to a therapist or counselor, in the context of therapy. 

My feeling was that the OP Tippy4u is overwhelmed by daily life, and it would be good if someone could help out with the house, with the kid, to show that she is not alone in life, and so she could get some time to decompress.

Therapy would be great.  But, its apples and oranges.  A visiting helper - for instance someone in the congregation - wouldn't be there for counselling, rather to lend a helping hand.

Thanks for setting me straight ( as if I could ever be straight LOL ) I was reacting to another post actually but what you shared is on point , a good point .   

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 10:18:02 PM »
Many people deal with stigma , especially when they are newly poz and skirting the issue isn't going to solve that internal stigma , may even add to it in my opinion .

I agree  100%.

I think if a person held a nefarious opinion about HIV positive people before they themselves were diagnosed it makes it truly hard for them to deal with their own diagnosis.   It's not a sign of failure, being dirty, or even being less of a person for that matter.  But if one takes it to mean that, their world seems to fall apart before them.   Asking for help during such a dire moment becomes even more important, and should be of top priority.  Unfortunately for them they don't see it that way.
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Offline eric48

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2013, 05:11:58 PM »
I cant endorse advice on seeking counseling and not being forthcoming with the real issue about why you are seeking it .

I think she needs help from local people. In some area people's gossips can be a burden that  you (and family member's) may have to carry on your shoulders for many years.

As she raises the kid(s), she is going to become more mature and find someone to speak to in a trusting relationship

I was not suggesting post partum depression as a cover up but as a real potential cause to the OPs current condition, not to mention that the father seems to be away for work or whatever reason.

The OP describes herself as timid, reserved, shy.
So what she needs is not to talk, but rather to be talked to

Going thru tippytu ' s posts,  I find her story is a cocktails of extremely sad news (diagnosis, having to sell the house, not so good relationship with her mother,...) and extremely good news (good labs, baby in good health,...): no wonder she is falling into depression

tippytu : I really hope you will feel better soon  !  Hopefully the baby is going to be safe also !

Cheers!

eric
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Offline Ann

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Re: I'm still terrified & sad
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 05:35:39 AM »

The OP describes herself as timid, reserved, shy.
So what she needs is not to talk, but rather to be talked to


Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, given that because Tippy is a woman who lives in a rural, religiously conservative area, she's probably spent her whole life being "talked to" (more likely talked AT) and that's why she's timid and reserved?

Tippy, I encourage you to find your voice and talk this stuff through with a counsellor. It is very possible that post-natal depression is in the equation here - and maybe it would have been even if all these other things didn't happen.

Please get some face-to-face help! Please also feel free to continue posting here, where other people understand what you're going through.

Hugs,
Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

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HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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