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Author Topic: The End of Homophobia  (Read 1394 times)

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Offline oksikoko

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The End of Homophobia
« on: June 24, 2013, 07:41:00 PM »
Well, here's a random stream of consciousness I would probably mention out loud if anyone were here. So.

Someone outside my window is playing "Words Get in the Way" (what?) by Miami Sound Machine. They're actually playing that whole album which I had on cassette when I was a kid in Kentucky. This particular song reminds me of a boy named Heath who I had a crush on for a couple of years.

If you're gay and my age or older, you know that instead of being happyfun I-have-a-crush time, it was holyshitterror they'llkillmeiftheyfindout hour. Thus began a lifetime of what should be positive emotions triggering fear and internally violent reactions.

This made me think about hundreds of gay kids who were teens in the 70s, who fell in secret love with boys named Heath, moved to New York in the early 80s, found an impossible freedom they never thought they'd have then {pow} died of AIDS two years later. What the fuck, God?

This made me think about an LTSer in these forums who said something along the lines of my being some sort of misanthrope and people-hating and yadda yadda yadda. None of this is true, but only by the grace of God (yeah, I know internally inconsistent) do I not hate people. Who could blame me if I did? Honest emotions about people lead to violence and homelessness. Lies and prevarications lead to food, friends and roof-over-head. We're just classically conditioned animals, after all.

This made me think about those of you who get upset when people talk about "the end of AIDS" as if it's over. Now that we can marry (some restrictions apply), people talk about homophobia as being over. I don't think it will be over until the last of us is dead and all the new queers have a shot at a "normal life", whatever that means, but this sort of talk doesn't get you invited to dinner parties.

"Yeah, boo hoo, get over it," they say, "you could have been born gay in Saudi Arabia where you wouldn't have lived long enough to get AIDS and die."

Yeah, that's true.

Then I stopped thinking because I don't like it.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline buginme2

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 06:00:31 PM »

If you're gay and my age or older, you know that instead of being happyfun I-have-a-crush time, it was holyshitterror they'llkillmeiftheyfindout hour. Thus began a lifetime of what should be positive emotions triggering fear and internally violent reactions.


I'm three years older than you and while I appreciate that for many people our age growing up was difficult and crushes may have been frightening.  I was brought up in a pretty liberal family in an urban area and had my first boyfriend in high school.  It was after I had the biggest crush on him for quite some time.  We dated for two years, our senior year in high school and one year college.  It was absofuckinglutely fantastic.  Granted, I've never been to Kentucky and can only imagine what it was like.

Even so, there has been and always will be homophobia.  Just as there has been and always will be racism.  Progress doesn't negate people emotions but it does improve.  Just because people may still hold on to some hateful feelings doesn't mean we should stop trying for progress.

It's a two sided coin, you can either see the bad in people and use that as an excuse to check out.  Or you can see how things have gotten so much better and the progress that has been made and try to work for more.


Offline oksikoko

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 06:28:48 PM »
I'm three years older than you and while I appreciate that for many people our age growing up was difficult and crushes may have been frightening.  I was brought up in a pretty liberal family in an urban area and had my first boyfriend in high school.  It was after I had the biggest crush on him for quite some time.  We dated for two years, our senior year in high school and one year college.  It was absofuckinglutely fantastic.  Granted, I've never been to Kentucky and can only imagine what it was like.

Even so, there has been and always will be homophobia.  Just as there has been and always will be racism.  Progress doesn't negate people emotions but it does improve.  Just because people may still hold on to some hateful feelings doesn't mean we should stop trying for progress.

It's a two sided coin, you can either see the bad in people and use that as an excuse to check out.  Or you can see how things have gotten so much better and the progress that has been made and try to work for more.

Good for you.

You missed my point entirely.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline mitch777

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 06:30:39 PM »
High School graduation was in 1977. Yes, I'm kinda old. :o
It was the same year that being gay wasn't considered a mental illness. Imagine not only dealing with others prejudice but questioning your own sanity.

So much progress has happened but it still feels slow. After all, 1977 was 36 years ago.
Many will bring up how long it took for the civil rights movement to achieve what has happened. I tend to agree it takes time to weed out the fear and hatred but on the other hand we humans seem to be progressing at lightning speed in so many ways. Why does it take so long to move forward?
I know I answered my own question. Just a random thought as Lee put it.

Fear and hate are hard to extinguish. The only way forward is to be who we are and show our love toward each other with no shame. :)

As to the conditioned animal concept. Yes we are. Society conditions us and we condition society.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 06:35:08 PM by mitch777 »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline oksikoko

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 06:33:19 PM »
High School graduation was in 1977. Yes, I'm kinda old. :o
It was the same year that being gay wasn't considered a mental illness. Imagine not only dealing with others prejudice but questioning your own sanity.

So much progress has happened but it still feels slow. After all, 1977 was 36 years ago.
Many will bring up how long it took for the civil rights movement to achieve what has happened. I tend to agree it takes time to weed out the fear and hatred but on the other hand we humans seem to be progressing at lightning speed in so many ways. Why does it take so long to move forward?
I know I answered my own question. Just a random thought as Lee put it.

Fear and hate are hard to extinguish. The only way forward is to be who we are and show our love toward each other with no shame. :)

It would be easier to do if pollyannas didn't always come rubbing your nose in their happy lives and wondering why you don't simply cheer up. I mean, gosh, people are so good and life is so fucking wonderful.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline buginme2

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 06:35:31 PM »
Well, here's a random stream of consciousness I would probably mention out loud if anyone were here. So.
Good for you.

You missed my point entirely.

Random stream of consciousness, Miami sound machine, being a kid in Kentucky, crushes, dying of aids, homophobia, Saudi Arabia.

Were you trying to make a point with your word salad? 

I did miss it, I apologize.

Offline oksikoko

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 06:36:46 PM »
Are you done? Want to piss on me some more?
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline mitch777

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 06:37:28 PM »
It would be easier to do if pollyannas didn't always come rubbing your nose in their happy lives and wondering why you don't simply cheer up. I mean, gosh, people are so good and life is so fucking wonderful.

You are making assumptions about me and my so called Pollyanna life.
It really doesn't help does it?
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline oksikoko

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 06:38:20 PM »
I was talking about buginme. I don't know you, and I guess it's time I went away form these forums again. Ciao, kids.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline mitch777

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 06:39:25 PM »
I was talking about buginme. I don't know you, and I guess it's time I went away form these forums again. Ciao, kids.
you quoted me Lee.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 06:45:50 PM »
I was talking about buginme. I don't know you, and I guess it's time I went away form these forums again. Ciao, kids.

Whats wrong Lee ? , no one said a word to you that's offensive so your anger is looking rather random .

Offline mecch

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 07:05:08 PM »
This made me think about an LTSer in these forums who said something along the lines of my being some sort of misanthrope and people-hating and yadda yadda yadda. None of this is true, but only by the grace of God (yeah, I know internally inconsistent) do I not hate people. Who could blame me if I did? Honest emotions about people lead to violence and homelessness. Lies and prevarications lead to food, friends and roof-over-head. We're just classically conditioned animals, after all.


I care for you my dear and I know there are others here who do too. And several of us have said a few times that we don't find you misanthropic. This seems to be, IMO, a label you believe about yourself, or which you think other people believe about you.  But we repeat often enough that we don't see you that way.

I really enjoyed our thread the other day and you were kind to take time for me and pay attention to my post about my weird young god.

So, as you said this stream of ... is "random", I highlighted one part and this is my thought:

I'm curious to hear how honest emotions led to violence and homelessness.  (I worry about your homelessness.)  Now the part about violence is news.  Do you care to spill some of this story?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 07:31:45 PM »
"Words Get in the Way" is actually one of the few songs that I've ever liked by Ms. Estefan (along with "Don't Wanna Lose You").  Pretty much everything else that she recorded during her pop phase is either forgettable or utterly tacky.  Her Spanish stuff is alright. 

Teenage love affairs are cute.  Mine took place when I was fourteen. He was this big macho Italian boy from Brooklyn.  I used to lie to my family saying that I was going to temple when the fact was that I was actually hanging out with him discovering the joys of sex.

Misanthropy is ok.  Some humans are quite annoying.  The real problem though is that some heads tend to hate everybody else around them and blame the other seven billion people on the surface of this planet for their misery and/or failure(s).  Some times it really starts with the queen in the mirror.   

Saudi Arabia seems fascinating as far as their history and culture is concerned. And they have some deliciously-cocked fellas. 

I kinda don't mind Pollyannas.  I prefer them way better/over embittered queens who spend far too much time hating themselves, maintaining love-hate relationships with chemistry, posting self-deprecating rubbish, and then pretend to be some xtube undiscovered porn star that wears tube socks.  Self-love is sehr gut.

Some people in the world do hate us for whom we chose to love/fuck.  But in the end, as long as they don't trespass into my personal space, they don't matter.  They can simply fuck off and die.  What matters is family, a couple of real friends, loving and loyal pets, and a sense of direction. 

Time to listen to some Northern Soul.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline wolfter

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 07:32:18 PM »
Not sure what's happening, but just wanted to reach out.  We ALL know how difficult life is after diagnosis, and it's different for each of us.  I can certainly discus being gay in rural ohio river country. 

But I do recall that Vancerburg, KY was the gayest place I had ever been.  At 19, I fell in love with the place and it didn't matter that it was a 2 hour drive. ;D

Hope all goes well, and sending positive thoughts your way.

Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline oksikoko

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 07:52:49 PM »
Hope all goes well, and sending positive thoughts your way.

Wolfter-
Nothing's happening. Thank you.

Bug-
It seems like you disparage every post I post, then it seemed, after telling me you had a wonderful, lovely childhood and adolescence (and really, I'm very happy for you) when it's clear I was talking about what happens when that's not the case, that I should stop hating on people, which was the exact opposite of what I was trying to say and which I find a little tone deaf. I'm far from perfect, but you could use a class in empathy. Then it seemed like you were saying I shouldn't have posted at all, which isn't really up to you. If you hate my posts, why do you reply? Just ignore them.

Rev Moon-
I'm sorry that you've disliked my posts this much. For the record, I've enjoyed yours. I'm also sorry I guess I've posted in every topic there is, leaving little room for other people. I don't know if you're talking about me, but I say again, I don't hate anyone, let alone everyone. That's the opposite of what I was trying to say, and I don't blame anyone but me for anything that's gone wrong. I don't think I've ever said otherwise. I don't have a love-hate relationship with chemicals. and I never pretended to be an xtube star. That was someone else. I did have a cam4, and I put on lots of "shows" when I was bored. I still have an xTube with one video (password protected). I'm not sure why this is relevant.

Mecch-
No more violence than anyone else.

Jeff-
I think offense is decided by the person who feels offended. Since you're the police, I guess I'm cornered again.

mitch777-
I clicked the wrong button or something. I don't know.

That's all.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

Offline mitch777

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Re: The End of Homophobia
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 09:03:34 PM »
Lee,

I'm not really too good at this but if you could have a bit of patience with me for a sec...

I'm not a very patient person myself at times.
Feeling offended is pretty easy for us humans. (all of us)

I'm a rather simple guy who feels others struggles and doesn't know how to be of much help most of the time. I struggle myself with so many issues. Who am I to be able to figure out the personal issues of others?

Sometimes a "simple" guy can be pretty complex.

You are complex but far from simple.

You mentioned empathy.
It is a two way street.

I think you have had to deal with many things in your life that most of us can't comprehend. (you got to be in your shoes and face the emotional and psychological issues that can't be duplicated.) Each of us is unique.

I like you for being unique. :)
Hope you are able to enjoy each of us here for being who we are.
Yes it takes patience.
Sorry, rambling. My brain is not functioning the way it used to.

Just wanted to say I care about you.
Hope you care about me and the people of this forum.
It takes a great deal of effort to be the "police" as you call the mods. I wish you were better able to respect the "humans" that choose to put out the energy. (with their own health problems themselves galore)

The value you bring to everyone here is more than you may realize.
Please don't give up on us.

bla, bla, bla.

Sincerely,
m.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

 


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