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Author Topic: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??  (Read 1883 times)

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Offline jam_borg1987

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"Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:34:18 PM »
I have come across what is possibly the most ignorant statement I ever came across yesterday. There was a news article about some HIV positive guy who spit on a police officer and is facing aggravated assault charges for his "attempt to infect".

Now of course, comments started flying. Lots of people were quick (and correct) to point out that HIV cannot be transmitted by saliva and also correctly go to point out that there is no known cases where HIV has been transmitted by saliva.

Someone responded by saying, "just because there is no known cases of it being transmitted, doesnt mean that it cant be transmitted that way. There is no definitive proof that saliva cannot transmit HIV, so the punishment fit the crime."

Now, lol, whatever he meant when he said "definitive proof" Im not sure. I would think the fact that no one ever caught it from saliva is proof enough it cant be caught that way. With HIV positive people kissing, spitting, etc and saliva never transmitting it, you'd thing that is enough "definitive proof".

However, of course, not to this guy. So what do you think? What is "definitive proof"?

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 10:37:12 PM »
I've never been able to kill someone telepathically but I guess there is no definitive proof that I can't.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 11:01:04 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 01:02:47 AM »
Holy mother of God. There are over a dozen identified elements (proteins and enzymes) that saliva contains which break down HIV and render it inert - this is above and beyond the fact that saliva does not contain active HIV particles. THIS beyond the fact that HIV cannot remain viable outside the body.

The glycoprproteins GP41 cannot survive an anaerobic environment, which SALIVA provides. These glycoproteins aren't even the issues. It's the glycoproteins GP120 that support and protect the docking mechanisms for HIV that disintegrate first.

Your friend is beyond help if he or she cannot comprehend the basics of virology. And, of course, has no business presenting an opinion based on such profound ignorance.

People should think before they speak - but in your "friend's" case (in parenthesis because such a fuckwad regarding HIV would be no friend to me) they can at LEAST throw a little scoence behind their backwater shitstream.

In short, I am in a bad mood and your friend's mother should have swallowed when she had the chance.
.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Online tednlou2

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 02:35:38 AM »
From what I understood, this was said in a comment section of a news story, and not by the OP's friend.

When sites like the CDC say deep French kissing could be a mode of transmission, then I'm not surprised many would think spitting could transmit the virus.  I've seen many online debates, where people pull that out as proof saliva can transmit the virus.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 02:50:29 AM »
From what I understood, this was said in a comment section of a news story, and not by the OP's friend.

When sites like the CDC say deep French kissing could be a mode of transmission, then I'm not surprised many would think spitting could transmit the virus.  I've seen many online debates, where people pull that out as proof saliva can transmit the virus.

True but intellectually wrong and bereft of any real knowledge. And I am not in the mood to indulge that.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline mecch

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 07:39:44 AM »
There was a news article about some HIV positive guy
.....
comments started flying....

Those discussions are ratf*cks....  You know that....
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 07:43:41 AM »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 07:53:50 AM »

Your friend is beyond help if he or she cannot comprehend the basics of virology. And, of course, has no business presenting an opinion based on such profound ignorance.

People should think before they speak - but in your "friend's" case (in parenthesis because such a fuckwad regarding HIV would be no friend to me) they can at LEAST throw a little scoence behind their backwater shitstream.

In short, I am in a bad mood and your friend's mother should have swallowed when she had the chance.



True but intellectually wrong and bereft of any real knowledge. And I am not in the mood to indulge that.


Jonathan, I'm not in the mood to indulge your first comments to the OP either. First, you misread him - it wasn't his "friend", it was someone on a message board.

Second, you made those nasty comments on the assumption that it was his friend and to be blunt, you were out of line.

You've given me no choice but to warn you. As a fellow moderator, you should understand the need for diplomacy.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jam_borg1987

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 08:46:19 AM »
From what I understood, this was said in a comment section of a news story, and not by the OP's friend.

When sites like the CDC say deep French kissing could be a mode of transmission, then I'm not surprised many would think spitting could transmit the virus.  I've seen many online debates, where people pull that out as proof saliva can transmit the virus.

Yes but even the CDC clearly says that the reason deep kissing MIGHT be a risk factor is because of the potential of there to be an exchange of blood. Referring to the select few cases where people have caught HIV from deep kissing because of bleeding and open wounds.

The CDC says, with respond to the fact sheet question on their website, "Can you get HIV from kissing?"

"It depends on the type of kissing. There is no risk from closed-mouth kissing.

There are extremely rare cases of HIV being transmitted via deep “French” kissing but in each case, infected blood was exchanged due to bleeding gums or sores in the mouth. Because of this remote risk, it is recommended that individuals who are HIV-infected avoid deep, open-mouth “French” kissing with a non-infected partner, as there is a potential risk of transferring infected blood. Summary:

There is no risk of transmission closed-mouth kissing.
There is a remote risk from deep, open-mouth kissing if there are sores or bleeding gums and blood is exchanged. Therefore, persons living with HIV should avoid this behavior with a non-infected partner."

Now it says that HIV positive people should not engage in open mouthed kissing because of the potential for there to be an exchange of blood. I honestly think that this is a bit broad. Although it clearly says the risk comes from the potential to be infected from blood, it then goes to say that HIV positive people should not engage in open mouthed kissing, period. It doesnt say, "HIV positive people should avoid open mouthed kissing if there is bleeding in the mouth." so there is a contradiction on their part. Its basically saying that every time someone open mouth kisses with someone else, there is going to be blood, which is false. Under normal circumstances this does not happen.

So I agree that the CDC's response in this regard is sketchy and inaccurate, however it still clearly says that the blood is the culprit, not the saliva.

I actually wrote to the CDC about that "question" they have on their site and they responded by just reiterating what they wrote on their site, which I think was very unprofessional and stupid. Since my doctor really doesnt agree with it either...

Offline mecch

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 09:46:31 AM »
Jam bourg -
Can you clarify what your objective is?

Lots of members have little patience with these topics because we have the same topics several times a year, it seems.

Topic 1) Does HIV transmit by spitting. By saliva...   Obviously not....

(Topic 1a - a perennial favorite here: and related to your thread, by extension... Does HIV transmit by blowjobs. toothbrushes. shared glasses. kissing.... etc etc etc etc etc)

Topic 2) Why does the CDC state one thing when the HIV+ community and many ID doctors not believe it.
Answer - we don't know why.

Topic 3) Stupid insane criminal HIV transmission cases with no basis in science and epidemiology.  they suck. fight back

Topic 4) Misinformation in the general public and Social Media discussion forums that are filled with bias, fear and hatred.  it sucks fight back

The CDC is doing HIV+ people NO FAVORS fighting back Criminal HIV Transmission and social fear and prejudice against HIV+ people.

Are you worried about your own risks as per saliva and HIV transmission? Have no fear.

If not, you are, IMO, in danger of displacing the trolling that is standard in a news website discussion forum, and expecting it to be replicated here in Poz Forums. Which I am sure is not your intention.  Chalk it up to being a newbie here.

 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 09:49:33 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jam_borg1987

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 11:19:02 AM »
Jam bourg -
Can you clarify what your objective is?

Lots of members have little patience with these topics because we have the same topics several times a year, it seems.

Topic 1) Does HIV transmit by spitting. By saliva...   Obviously not....

(Topic 1a - a perennial favorite here: and related to your thread, by extension... Does HIV transmit by blowjobs. toothbrushes. shared glasses. kissing.... etc etc etc etc etc)

Topic 2) Why does the CDC state one thing when the HIV+ community and many ID doctors not believe it.
Answer - we don't know why.

Topic 3) Stupid insane criminal HIV transmission cases with no basis in science and epidemiology.  they suck. fight back

Topic 4) Misinformation in the general public and Social Media discussion forums that are filled with bias, fear and hatred.  it sucks fight back

The CDC is doing HIV+ people NO FAVORS fighting back Criminal HIV Transmission and social fear and prejudice against HIV+ people.

Are you worried about your own risks as per saliva and HIV transmission? Have no fear.

If not, you are, IMO, in danger of displacing the trolling that is standard in a news website discussion forum, and expecting it to be replicated here in Poz Forums. Which I am sure is not your intention.  Chalk it up to being a newbie here.

Am I worried about my own risks? Absolutely not. I am HIV positive myself afterall. I have been in relationships with people who are not however, which involved us engaging in open mouthed kissing with them never becoming infected. I KNOW you cannot get HIV from saliva!

Now as far my "objective". I guess I was looking for some information that I can use to respond to when someone says something like, "oh well it never happened, but there is no definitive proof it cant", but I suppose someone else has answered that question with in depth scientific knowledge of the whole thing.

But now that I think about it, I think Im going to go with the thing the first reply said. "I cant kill someone telepathically, but there is no definitive proof that I cant". I think that would make people think a little bit more.

Thank you for jumping down my through, and Im done here on this topic, no more posts from me...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: "Definitive" proof that saliva does not transmit HIV??
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 11:58:09 AM »
I am very sorry for the hyperbole in my reply. I was out of line and I need to give myself a break from the forums to gather myself.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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