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Author Topic: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)  (Read 4381 times)

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Offline Bibi

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Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« on: June 15, 2013, 08:25:56 PM »
Hello everyone, new here.

I know it's been discussed millions of times, but I need some personal reassurance.

I'm well aware that everyone here urges that oral sex is absolutely safe, but I still don't see how it can be so easily reassured on this forum? There were documented cases, according this very site it self (http://www.poz.com/articles/oral_vaginal_sex_hiv_348_2127.shtml)

I'm a hetrosexual male who performed cunniglus (my first sexual act ever actually) on an African Canadian (not that it really matters) escort about three months ago.

My main concerns:

1. This is the largest concern. I have a naturally fissured tongue, huge crack going down the middle and smaller cracks all around. Does that increase risk?

2. Night sweats started to occur right away. It started they first night of my incidence and continued for another day or two (stopped very quickly)

3. Sore throat the next morning, went away within a week.

4. Canker sores usually on the inner lip or the inner cheek are happening about once a month. It's always a single sore that goes away within a few days, and then a few weeks later another sore would come up.

5. It's been a little more than three months since the incident. A few days ago my lymph nodes in the back of the head (skull) and upper neck are swollen and painful to touch. Nowhere else, just two on the lower skull and one on the upper neck, none in armits, groin, etc.

6. Been feeling very off the last few weeks, lots of lightheadedness, body shakes, dizziness. No flu like symptoms, no fever, no coughing. Maybe it's stress from thinking about all this?

Any further insight into this situation would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 08:28:26 PM by Bibi »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 08:42:03 PM »
Hi BiBi , You are making the common mistake of lumping all oral sex into one category , but its far from accurate to do so , specifically in your case cunnilingus is not nor has ever been a risk for HIV . The link you shared states that most people surveyed in studies did not avoid other types of unsafe sexual activity.

Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.
The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.
Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect.
Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.
The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.
The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.
So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples.

The theoretical risk for oral sex is receptive oral mouth / penile sex with a partner that has a high viral load and the caveat that the receptive partner has gaping wounds or meth mouth and terrible oral hygiene . In layman's terms ... if you have huge open wounds in your mouth and suck the dick of a guy with a high HIV viral load there is a small chance HIV could be transmitted . That is if it can get around the fact that saliva damages HIV rendering it unable to infect . Its an unlikely scenario .
Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
     
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 08:55:02 PM by Jeff G »

Offline Bibi

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 11:46:38 AM »
What about my fissured tongue? HUGE crack going down the middle with smaller cracks on the sides

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 11:53:12 AM »
Fissures are not open wounds and the fact still remains that cunnilingus isn't a risk for HIV .

There have been no fewer than three separate serodiscordant couples studies (where one person is HIV positive, the other negative.) These couples were tracked for three. five and ten years. The couples used condoms for penetrative vaginal and anal sex, but NO BARRIER at all for oral sex. Any kind of oral sex.

These studies yielded NO infections.   

Offline Ann

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 11:55:05 AM »
Bibi,

Two cases of "patient report" (they weren't actually documented cases, unfortunately the wording of that article you linked to is incorrect) in over 30 years of this pandemic and you're going to fret about them? Knock it off. Both of those cases were later shown to be not true and I have no idea why that article is on this website. I didn't write it nor did I publish it, but I will be looking into the matter.

You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection by giving a woman oral sex. Having a fissured tongue does not change that fact.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Bibi

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 08:41:33 PM »
I'm still highly worried, mainly because I did a CBC last week and everything is perfect EXCEPT low platelet count. Mine is 117, the normal range is 140 to 400. How common are low platelet counts with HIV patients? I'm not sure what else would cause it to be low, especially since the rest of the CBC is fine. This anxiety is getting me.. I need to test for HIV as soon as I can for my peace of mind.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 08:51:36 PM »
You didn't have risk but if you cant except it then go test if that's what it takes to convince you .

There are many conditions that could account for your blood test but since you didn't have a risk it cant be HIV . A low platelet count isn't in any way specific to HIV so focusing on them is a guessing game , and that's why we will not discuss symptoms .

If you cant accept our council on HIV risk then there is nothing we can do for you .     

« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 09:18:14 AM by Jeff G »

Offline Bibi

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Vaginal fluid on open wound
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 09:48:58 AM »
Hello all,

I'm having a bit of anxiety over a past incident, please evaluate my risks.


I had protected intercourse with an escort. HOWEVER...

I've had jock itch for a very long time, I made a bad habit of constantly scratching my testicles.

An hour before the intercourse I had a bleeding scratch/wound on my testicles. I washed it with water and was hoping for the best.

The light bleeding stopped by the time the actual intercourse started, but the wound was still fresh, pink, tender.

During the intercourse my testicles started to itch and burn — especially at the open wound spots — I am guessing because vaginal fluid got in there... (this concerns me the most)

I read many posts on this site, and I do realize small cuts do not pose a risk.. however this was more of a flat wound/scratch with considerable size, and a relatively fresh one too.

Does our body form a protective barrier right away? (there was no bleeding during intercourse)

Did I have a risk?





Offline Jeff G

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 10:18:13 AM »
Hi Bibi , I have merged your thread into your old one , please do not start another thread every time you have a question . You can go to your profile and select show own post and it will take you here .

HIV is a fragile virus that is rendered unable to infect when exposed to oxygen , so in no way was the incident you described a risk for HIV .

The other obstacle is that the secretions a woman makes when sexually excited isn't infectious for HIV . If infected , the female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix and those were not the fluids you were in contact with .


Offline Bibi

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 08:15:20 PM »
Hi Bibi , I have merged your thread into your old one , please do not start another thread every time you have a question . You can go to your profile and select show own post and it will take you here .

HIV is a fragile virus that is rendered unable to infect when exposed to oxygen , so in no way was the incident you described a risk for HIV .

The other obstacle is that the secretions a woman makes when sexually excited isn't infectious for HIV . If infected , the female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix and those were not the fluids you were in contact with .

Thank you for your response.

Do you have any links to back up the above? how come the internet is full of conflicting info? Some sites say HIV can't live once exposed to air, some say it lives for seconds, some say it lives for minutes. 

There is a documented case of a knife fight between a positive and negative person. The negative person ended up being positive... how come? The knife must've been exposed to oxygen in between stabbings.

Also many sites say to not share sex toys, why would they say that if HIV does not infect when exposed to oxygen?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 08:55:19 PM »
I honestly cannot comment on what is said and done on other sites. Most of those sites are aggregates, parroting information that is often decades old and disproven.

This site is currently experiencing a bug that makes it difficult to post a lot of links at once, so this might be spread out.


http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10310.msg127650#msg127650

The qualification we use at AIDSMEDS is based on three distinct and separate studies conducted over the course of two decades with serodiscordant couples. We do not rely on anecdotal evidence insofar as HIV transmission is concerned, especially not now, where the current state of the scientific and epidemiological art is as advanced as it is. With more people living longer and healthier lives, a large enough collection of serodiscordant couples has finally emerged to create blind studies where HIV transmission routes can be studied with scientific quantification.

Here are some of the  scientific findings.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 08:57:38 PM »

Here are the links to the case studies which indicate saliva's multiple HIV inhibiting capabilities.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/60770.html

Neutralizing effect of secretory IgA to HIV in parotid saliva of HIV-infected patients.

Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:1142 (abstract no. 60770)

Moja P, Desgranges C, Pozzetto B, Lucht F, Genin C
Gimap University of St.-Etienene, France.

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to test S-IgA purified from secretions of HIV seropositive patients in a neutralization assay to determine whether specific S-I&A can protect from HIV infection.

CONCLUSION: These data demonstrate that secretory IgA, which is the predominant isotype in secretions, can inhibit HIVMN infection of MT4 cells. HIV neutralization has been carried out with CD4+ T cell line adapted virus strain as a standardized model system, but the use of mucosal autologous primary isolates in neutralization test would be useful to estimate the actual protective effect of these antibodies in each patient.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 08:58:20 PM »

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/12wac/21143.html

Saliva neutralizes HIV-1 infection by displacing envelope gp120 from the virion.

Int Conf AIDS 1998 Jun 28-Jul 3; 12:267 (abstract no. 21143)

Malamud D, Nagashunmugan T, Friedman HM, Davis CA, Abrams WR
Dept. Biochemistry Univ. Penn Dental Med., Phila 19104-6003, USA.


BACKGROUND: Incubation of HIV-1 with human saliva decreases infectivity. This inhibition is specific for HIV-1, with no effect on adenovirus, HIV-2 or SIV and appears to work at the level of the virus rather than the host cell. We have now identified an active protein fraction and provide evidence that the mechanism of action involves stripping of gp120 from the virus.

CONCLUSION: The specific inhibition of HIV-1 infectivity by human submandibular saliva is associated with removal of gp120 from the virus. The active fraction contains several proteins, including two high molecular weight glycoproteins.

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/4croi/412.html

Mechanisms of anti-HIV-1 activity of human submandibular saliva.

Conf Retroviruses Opportunistic Infect 1997 Jan 22-26; 4th:140 (abstract no. 412)

Nagashunmugam T, Malamud D, Davis C, Friedman HM; University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA.

Human submandibular saliva contains factors that reduces HIV-1 infectivity in vitro. The mechanism of action of these salivary proteins is unknown. We asked if salivary proteins act at the level of the virus or, instead, on the host cell. Monoclonal antibodies were used to detect cell surface receptors (CD3, CD4, CD7, HLA-DR, LFA-1, and LFA2) on peripheral blood derived mononuclear cells (PBMCs) treated with media or saliva. Our results show that saliva did not block these receptors nor lower the intensity of detection. PBMCs pretreated with saliva showed no inhibition when subsequently infected with HIV-1HxB2. These results suggest that saliva does not exhibit anti-viral activity by modifying the host cell. Saliva did not block binding of gp120 to CD4 nor did it lyse the virus. Incubation of HIV with submandibular saliva did lead to viral aggregation. Virus-saliva aggregates were subjected to centrifugation on a 10-60% sucrose gradient, fractionated and assayed for p24 antigen. The HIV-saliva complex sediments at a higher density compared with virus alone. Analysis of the gradient fractions for gp120 shows that the env protein is displaced from the virion. These results suggest that one mechanism of salivary anti-HIV activity involves removal of gp120 thereby decreasing HIV infectivity. This work was supported by NIH grants DE09569 and RR00040.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 08:59:37 PM »

Here is an article from aegis:

Scientists have discovered why it's difficult (though not impossible) to catch HIV through oral sex. The discovery could lead to new ways of defending the body against infection through sexual intercourse.

The body has an arsenal of virus-fighting chemicals called defensins that inhabit the mucous membranes lining our various orifices -- mouth, nose, rectum, vagina, etc. These chemicals are called human beta-defensins (hBDs). The body normally only calls them into action when the cells lining the membranes (called epithelial cells) are injured.

The mouth, however -- perhaps because it's usually the first port of call for most foreign substances -- has a permanently high level of defensins, and researchers have found that this permanent state of "Amber alert" is stimulated by the presence of oral bacteria, which cause the mouth to secrete hBDs.

Researcher Dr. Aaron Weinberg of Case Western University in Cleveland, Ohio said: "In the mouth, [defensins] are permanently induced above baseline levels. We've discovered that there are certain organisms unique to the oral cavity that have the ability to induce them."

The high level of hBDs in the mouth mean that it is easy for the body to switch to "red alert" when it is invaded by a germ it doesn't recognize -- including HIV.

Dr. Weinberg's team found that oral epithelial cells secreted four to 78 times the normal amount of oral defensins when HIV was introduced into the test tube with them.

"These beta defensins, once induced, have anti-retroviral activity," Dr. Weinberg said. "HIV failed to infect these cells, even after five days of exposure. We have a hunch that the oral cavity is therefore uniquely resistant to HIV infectivity."

The defensins appear to work not by directly attacking HIV but by temporarily "locking the doors" the virus uses to get into cells -- they stop it attaching itself to the "co-receptor" molecule called CXCR4 that normally dots the surface of epithelial cells.

This discovery may explain why it is so difficult to get HIV orally. It may also point the way to inducing the same kind of immune response in other body cavities. Dr. Weinberg said: "If we can isolate the organisms from the oral cavity that induce beta-defensins ... and apply them to the susceptible sites, we can artificially induce hBDs to be produced under normal conditions, which would then prevent HIV infection."

The concept is similar to one already explored using genetically modified bacteria to secrete antiviral chemicals (see http://uk.gay.com/article/hiv/prevention/2154), but in this case the bacteria used would be ones that normally live in the body.

More links and abstracts:

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/159/3/303

Baron, S., Poast, J., Cloyd, M. W. (1999). Why Is HIV Rarely Transmitted by Oral Secretions?: Saliva Can Disrupt Orally Shed, Infected Leukocytes. Arch Intern Med 159: 303-310

Saliva Can Disrupt Orally Shed, Infected Leukocytes

Samuel Baron, MD; Joyce Poast, BS; Miles W. Cloyd, PhD


Arch Intern Med. 1999;159:303-310.

Background Oral transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) by the millions of HIV-infected individuals is a rare event, even when infected blood and exudate is present. Saliva of viremic individuals usually contains only noninfectious components of HIV indicating virus breakdown.

Objective To determine whether unknown HIV inhibitory mechanisms may explain the almost complete absence of infectious HIV in the saliva.

Methods Since most of the infectious HIV that is shed mucosally by asymptomatic individuals is found in, produced by, and transmitted by infected mononuclear leukocytes, we determined whether saliva, which is hypotonic, may disrupt these infected cells, thereby preventing virus multiplication and cell-to-cell transmission of HIV. Specifically, we measured (1) whether mononuclear leukocytes were lysed by saliva and (2) whether the lysis by saliva inhibits the multiplication of HIV and other viruses in infected leukocytes and other cells.

Results Saliva rapidly disrupted 90% or more of blood mononuclear leukocytes and other cultured cells. Concomitantly, there was a 10,000-fold or higher inhibition of the multiplication of HIV and surrogate viruses. Further experiments indicated that the cell disruption is due to the hypotonicity of saliva.

Conclusions Hypotonic disruption may be a major mechanism by which saliva kills infected mononuclear leukocytes and prevents their attachment to mucosal epithelial cells and production of infectious HIV, thereby preventing transmission. Implications for the known oral HIV transmission by milk and seminal fluid, as well as potential oral transmission to contacts and health care workers, are considered. This effective salivary defense may be applicable medically to interdict vaginal, rectal, and oral transmission of HIV by infected cells in seminal fluid or milk by the use of anticellular substances.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11355444&dopt=Abstract

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 08:59:45 PM »

Parotid salivary basic proline-rich proteins inhibit HIV-I infectivity.

Robinovitch MR, Ashley RL, Iversen JM, Vigoren EM, Oppenheim FG, Lamkin M.

Department of Periodontics and Oral Biology, School of Dentistry, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, USA.

OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to investigate the molecular nature, spectrum of activity and mechanism(s) of action of those human parotid basic proline-rich proteins that exhibit anti-HIV-I activity. DESIGN: Fractions containing the basic proline-rich proteins were obtained from human parotid saliva of presumed HIV-I non-infected human subjects and characterized with respect to their purity, apparent molecular size and their ability to inhibit the infectivity of T-tropic and M-tropic strains of HIV-I. SUBJECTS, MATERIALS AND METHODS: Stimulated parotid saliva samples were collected from human subjects who denied having any risk factors for HIV-I infection and whose parotid salivas inhibited HIV-I infectivity. Such samples were subjected to affinity, molecular sieve and ion exchange chromatography to isolate individual salivary components. Those fractions demonstrating anti-HIV-I activity were analyzed by SDS-PAGE in order to assess their purity and determine their apparent molecular weights. HIV-I inhibitory activity was determined using HIV-I strains LAI and BaL in a Hela cell-derived multinuclear activation of a galactosidase indicator (MAGI) assay. Amino acid analyses were performed on some fractions. RESULTS: Recombinant gp120-CH-Sepharose chromatography of one subject's parotid saliva revealed specific binding of human parotid basic proline-rich proteins, most prominently one with an apparent molecular weight of 37 kDa. Molecular sieve and cation exchange chromatography yielded a fraction greatly enriched in this protein which amino acid analysis confirmed was proline-rich. A similar fraction from two other subjects also contained basic proline-rich proteins of similar molecular size. These fractions inhibited both T-tropic and M-tropic strains of HIV-I when assayed in the MAGI system. Since SLPI activity is not observable in the MAGI assay, this inhibition was not due to SLPI. The presence of thrombospondin-I (TSP-I) in the active fractions was precluded on the basis of SDS-PAGE examination. CONCLUSIONS: Specific basic proline-rich proteins in human parotid saliva possess significant anti-HIV-I activity independent of that attributable to SLPI or TSP-I. Since the inhibition is detectable with the MAGI assay, its mechanism of action involves virus-host cell interaction prior to the introduction of the tat gene product into the host cell and may be through the binding of the basic proline-rich proteins to the HIV-I gp120 coat of the virus.

http://www.nycornell.org/news/press/1998/saliva.aids.html
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2013, 09:14:48 PM »

STUDY SHOWS COMPONENT OF SALIVA IS VERY EFFECTIVE IN BLOCKING AIDS VIRUS

Potential for Use In Preventing Sexual Transmission of HIV


New York, NY (January 7, 1998) -- Research conducted at The New York Hospital-Cornell University Medical College has found that a natural component of human saliva has a very powerful effect in blocking the growth of laboratory strains of HIV as well as AIDS viruses taken directly from patients. This finding could lead to the development of natural inhibitors to HIV transmission. In a study published in the January 5 issue of the Journal of Experimental Medicine, Dr. Jeffrey Laurence, Director of the Laboratory for AIDS Virus Research; Dr. Ralph Nachman, Chairman of the Department of Medicine; Dr. Roy L. Silverstein, Chief of the Division of Hematology-Oncology; and a team of biomedical scientists describe how they have identified a natural sugar-protein, concentrated in saliva, known as TSP (thrombospondin), and discovered its remarkable ability to block the growth of the AIDS virus. Recognizing that over the past years several labs have found a variety of substances in human saliva that partially inhibit the growth of HIV, Dr. Laurence and his research team delved further into this phenomenon.

Dr. Laurence said, "We began by exploring why there is so little HIV virus in saliva, while large amounts of the virus are found in other body fluids; and why human saliva is so effective at blocking the growth of the AIDS virus in the test tube. This led us to the discovery of TSP." According to Dr. Laurence, "We made the observation that thrombospondin type 1 (TSP-1) can block HIV-1 infection of primary human cells and transform human cell lines of T lymphocyte and monocyte lineages. TSP is effective against both laboratory-adapted strains of HIV-1 and HIV-1 patient isolates. It is active at physiologic concentrations. Saliva experiments indicate that TSP-1 is a major component of the natural HIV inhibitory capacity of saliva." TSP is of particular interest as a natural inhibitor, as others have shown that it may promote wound healing, and suppression of some bacterial infections. Higher levels of TSP in the saliva of some male, as opposed to female, animals may relate to the more frequent wounding of male animals. Wound licking, with application of saliva molecules that could inhibit infection, would then be very beneficial. Speaking of the application of this research, Dr. Nachman said, "This is an exciting finding that is another step forward in our research efforts aimed at preventing AIDS transmission. TSP derivatives could potentially be used vaginally, rectally and orally in condoms, foams, suppositories, mouthwashes and toothpastes to inhibit transmission of the AIDS virus."

While TSP is a very large molecule that would be unwieldy to use directly in patients, the Cornell research team also investigated the mechanism of action of TSP. They found that peptides -- small pieces of the larger TSP -- could block binding of the AIDS virus to its receptor on immune cells. This offers the potential for direct use of these smaller molecules to prevent sexual transmission of HIV. Funding for this work was provided by the Dental, Heart/Lung/Blood, and Allergy/Immunology Institutes of the NIH.

http://depts.washington.edu/rcdrc/hiv.html
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2013, 09:14:56 PM »

Salivary HIV-1 Inhibitors
P.I.: Murray R. Robinovitch, Professor and Chairman, Department of Oral Biology, School of Dentistry, University of Washington

The specific aims of this study are to identify, isolate and characterize those non-immunoglobulin components of saliva that inhibit HIV-l infectivity and to elucidate their mechanisms of action. We found that adapted the multinuclear activation of a galactosidase indicator assay (MAGI) and the secretory leukocyte protease inhibitor assay (SLPI) for use in the studies. Of seven chromatographically separated components of saliva, those containing non-glycosylated basic proine-rich proteins inhibited HIV-l from 20 to 80% at protein concentrations within physiologic range. The fractions were inhibitory using both assays. The site of action appears to be prior to or at the site of viral entry into the cell rather than later in the infection process.

The modes of transmission of human acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) are still not completely understood even though bodily fluids such as blood and semen of infected subjects are regarded as extremely hazardous. Other human secretions such as milk and saliva have been reported to contain inhibitors of HIV-1 infectivity and it is now known that saliva may contain non-immunoglobulin inhibitors as well as secretory immunoglobulins if the subject is infected with HIV. The degree to which a non-infected persons saliva may be protective against HIV-1 infection via the oral route, and the degree to which the non-immunoglobulin factors and antibodies in an infected subject_s saliva may lessen the biohazard of this secretion is not known. Such information is vital from a public health point of view, and is also extremely important to the practice of dentistry. With such information, better advice can be offered to the public on how to contain AIDS, and to the profession of dentistry on how to design office practices and procedures

http://www.jem.org/cgi/content/abstract/187/1/25

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/6/344?ijkey=6bc872494df4c5b8ecb03f98f7f697d78f01f107&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Friedland, G. H., B. R. Saltzman, M. F. Rogers, P. A. Kahl, M. L. Lesser, M. M. Meyers, and R. S. Klein. 1986. Lack of household transmission of HTLV-III infection. N. Engl. J. Med. 314:344-349

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/278/48/48251

Rovinovitch, M. R., J. M. Iversen, and L. Resnick. 1993. Anti-infectivity activity of human salivary secretions toward human immunodeficiency virus. Crit. Rev. Oral Biol. Med. 4:455-459

Am I prepared to say that giving a blow job carries zero risk? I am not. Several prominent safer sex educators, including Kimberly Page Shafer and her colleagues from the University of California at San Francisco, who conducted one of the long term San Fransisco studies, however disagree.

<<Dr. Jeffrey Klausner, who heads the sexually transmitted disease prevention effort at the San Francisco Department of Public Health, bases his conclusion on a new study of 239 gay or bisexual men who reported no anal or vaginal sex and no injection-drug use in the prior six months. Ninety-eight percent said they had given head without condoms. Twenty-eight percent said they knew their partner was HIV-positive, and of those, 39 percent said they had swallowed semen. None of the men became infected.

The risk of HIV transmission via oral sex, Klausner maintains, "is very, very, very, very, very low and may be zero.">>
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2013, 09:18:17 PM »
You will note that very little research focuses on cunnilingus. This is because in the history of the pandemic there has beenone group of people almost completely uninfected:

Women who have sex with women.

There have been les than a dozen claims of oral infection among that group, and none of those survived scrutiny. It just doesn't happen.

You certainly don't have to believe us, but we base our risk assessment on science, not hyperbole or hysteria.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Bibi

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 10:21:43 PM »
Wow, thank you very much. That was very thorough.


I'm not worried about oral sex as much as I'm worried about the vaginal secretions on my recently bleeding and open wounds on the testicles. There are many conflicting stories and cases of whether those secretions contain HIV in the first place, and whether they're able to infect broken and recently bleeding skin.

Sorry, it might look like I'm busting your *****. I'm not denying anything you posted. I'm very grateful for all the information so far and I'm sure others who are reading this thread are also appreciating.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 10:31:10 PM »
Bibi, fears and doubts aren't facts. HIV is a fragile virus. It is not transmitted in the manner you're now worried about. Sexually it is transmitted through unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. That is when the penis is inside a vagina or an anus without a condom.

This latest stuff you are scaring yourself about is without any basis in HIV science.

At this point I am going to warn you that we are not going to go through another round of what ifs with you. If you can't let go of your unfounded fears then go ahead and get tested to collect the inevitable negative result. There is nothing more we can tell you about your incident at this point.
Andy Velez

Offline Bibi

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Re: Real risks of Oral (Cunniglus)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 11:34:30 PM »
Fair enough. A test will solve it all. Thank you.

 


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