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Author Topic: Can you hear me now?  (Read 1754 times)

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Offline buginme2

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Can you hear me now?
« on: June 10, 2013, 12:36:28 PM »
Is anyone else bothered that the US government is collecting phone records of well.....everyone? 

Is the excuse that "we are preventing terrorist attacks" worth it?

It really makes me sick that congress and the former president titled a law intended to invade the rights and privacy of their citizens as "the patriot act."  That makes me what to scream!!

If anyone is unaware of what I'm talking about, start here


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/edward-snowden-basic-liberties_n_3414824.html




« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:48:26 PM by buginme2 »

Offline mecch

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Re: Can you hear me know
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 01:11:27 PM »
Do we have a clear picture of the collection techniques, and built in controls for human rights? 

I guess I have known that this has been happening.  It doesn't surprise me.

I heard the reigned in explanation that electronic communications of all sorts are NOT necessarily being "read", "listened to".  In this camp, they say that as far as audio and video, its the connections that are being monitored, not the conversations.  So there's a watch list, I guess, and they look to see who makes or gets calls from certain numbers. 

This seems like oldfashioned surveillance standard operating procedure -  but now possible for high volumes of calls and presumably use algorithms, etc, to find or refine the "suspect" net.

The whistle blower has no degrees and claims to have been making 200K a year so there is some sort of whiff of investment banking here.  Wiz kids using algorithms and supercomputing processing power to change a system, change something from the way we thought it should or can be done, into something intangible but which spits out a product that benefits its stakeholders....  Banks are too big to fail, virtual unfathomable finance/money markets nevertheless spitting out profits to a few who are guaranteed to get richer.  If governments can have universal surveillance I suppose they can be too powerful to fail, or to change, and citizenry, and the individual, no longer really exist..

Remember, corporations are people. People are no longer people they are cogs...

There are caveats that aren't all that convincing.  I heard that the NSA still needs a court order or some official approval of some sort (?) to finally listen in to a call.  Its not clear if they are recording all calls. A flagged audio (or video) --- they go in and specifically listen with approval, only.  Approval by whom???  Flag connections can only be monitored going forward, or, have they actually been recorded!?

Computer are "reading" all text content, messaging, of course.  That it, its all searchable.  Clearly its possible to record all internet searches, connections, maybe even the contents of all electronic print and image files.. 

I guess maybe voice is completely searchable.  But if a machine monitors audio, is that the same as a human ear listening in?  Is it different if the monitoring is on the fly, and not recorded.  What if the calls ARE recorded, but still only scanned for key syntax lexis.... And then flagged stuff needs a warrent...  Is that Total Big Brother?

It was revealed this week that the US Post office does this in the REAL world, every item sent through the post is photographed....  Tangible mail. Every item. Photographed.... Yeah just the outside but still....

I'm not sure there is computing capacity to actually record all audio and video.... 

Long story short, it doesn't surprise me, and I can imagine arguments for and against this surveillance.... 

I wish the world didn't feel the need for this, but alas.....

Its a shit storm from a pandora's box but its been open for decades, just not pervasive or universal.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 01:21:37 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 01:12:56 PM »
Is anyone else bothered that the US government is collecting phone records of well.....everyone? 
yes. For over a decade, I have been troubled by the scope of the patriot act since Oct 2001 when Bush signed it into law. I have written, called, posted on their FB pages, and emailed my Congressional Representatives many times over the years about this and I have continually voted against those who voted for this invasive law.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Online Jeff G

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 01:46:15 PM »
I was appalled when the patriot act was introduced and felt at the time that future Presidents will use it every tool in his kit to do the job , this President proves to the point  . What gets me is how so many people in Washington are pretending this is all new .

If you ask a person about the patriot act right after a terrorist attack they are all for it , ask a few months later and people are not so gung ho about throwing civil liberties and privacy out with the bath water . 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 02:56:21 PM by Jeff G »

Offline darryaz

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 02:34:53 PM »
I was just in the car and was listening to an interview of Edward Snowden on NPR.

The one part of all this I wasn't aware of is that the government contracts out the surveillance.  This is a bit disturbing.  How many times have we heard of government contractors that don't uphold what is expected of them?  And there seem to be no consequences for such failures.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 02:48:54 PM »
While I share serious concerns regarding the Patriot Act, I simply cannot get so excited about the federal government doing just what Google, Facebook and everyone has been doing for years.  In an age when folks tweet their every movement and folks post the most intimate details of their lives on-line, what difference does it make if the government is looking for trends through metadata?

I've read about this issue in detail and I urge others to do the same.  There are various departments involved and specific courts that must be used by the feds and Congress is kept in the loop as well.  I can only imagine the outrage, if a new threat presents itself against America and the government had not used every resource possible to identify and stop any such attacks.

Face it folks, our world is electronically connected and the idea of "personal privacy" has been replaced by 24/7 on-line coverage of any and all actions that can be gleamed from the internet.  The feds are using the same technology as everyone else and until I hear stories about jack-booted feds rounding up average Americans, I support the proper supervision and regulating of national security issues, by the folks who actually know what they are doing.

Joe

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 01:40:56 AM »
I wasn't surprised calls were tracked.  But, this did surprise me.  The Post Office photographs and tracks every piece of mail-- billions of letters, bday cards, magazines, etc.  This came to light when tainted letters were sent to President Obama.  In the story, a bookstore owner discusses how he learned he was being tracked.

There was another story I saw tonight about police cars equipped with cameras to track license plates.  They say it is to look for stolen cars.  I suppose when you're out in public, you cannot expect any privacy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032619/ns/NBCNightlyNews/


Offline Ann

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 06:00:17 AM »
The only time public is private is when you remove the L. Unless you're a flasher, of course.
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 12:23:09 PM »
I wasn't surprised calls were tracked.  But, this did surprise me.  The Post Office photographs and tracks every piece of mail-- billions of letters, bday cards, magazines, etc.  This came to light when tainted letters were sent to President Obama.  In the story, a bookstore owner discusses how he learned he was being tracked.

And they still let some guy get away with having a pound of primo weed mailed to him every week?  It's something I saw on Drugs Inc.. (documentary) the other day.  He initially started his weed selling business with FEMA funds after hurricane Katrina.  He said he received a package every week from California.. I admit, I was extremely frustrated with jealousy.  When he opened the package and started weighing it out my upper lip started to quiver.

I'm certain New Orleans authorities will probably put a stop to it now that it has been on the discovery channel.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2013, 12:40:34 PM »
i suppose it doesnt bother me much, if they listen to my calls or texts then they would be quite bored unless they get ahold of a good sexting session from time to time
11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
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09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Offline darryaz

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 12:46:46 PM »
they would be quite bored

That's pretty much the way I look at it.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 01:24:06 PM »
That's pretty much the way I look at it.
i suppose it doesnt bother me much, if they listen to my calls or texts then they would be quite bored unless they get ahold of a good sexting session from time to time

That's fine and dandy, they would be quite bored listening to my calls as well, that's not really the point though. 

How often do I have to listen about how America is land of the free.  Ya not quite.  Your not really a free person if your own government is listening to your calls and reading your emails.  It's a pretty standard violation of the spirit of the constitution and the principals of the country.

The road to oppression is lined with indifference.

Offline mecch

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Re: Can you hear me now?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2013, 09:38:58 AM »
Does anyone see something weird in that Americans lost quite a bit of rights to privacy with the federal government.  At the same time, "stand your ground" laws were passed in two dozen states.  Which pits citizen against citizen. Someone decides you are a threat and can get away with shooing you dead.....
How is that "the land of the free"?  It seems to increase everyone's feelings of insecurity, no? 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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