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Author Topic: How low did your CD4s get?  (Read 7208 times)

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Offline jaace24

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  • Posts: 35
How low did your CD4s get?
« on: June 05, 2013, 11:15:54 AM »
I am someone that when diagnosed had low CD4s, 53.  They are now doing good and that was back in January.  My last reading was 220!  Just curious what everyone's lowest was and when that was?  Just wondering with such a low CD4 initially if you can expect to live a normal life span?

Offline elf

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 11:56:17 AM »
lowest/nadir:353 (when I tested positive, 4 1/2 years ago, I started therapy the following day)
highest: 1380 (three years ago)
now: 750-1350 (they go up and down)

In my first year on meds, I was also taking 400 mg selenium each day.
It may have helped, my viral load was undetectable within a month on therapy (down from 300 000),
and CD4 jumped from 353 --->515 in a month, and then to >1000 in 60 days...

I don't even enter my values in CD4 log @thebody.com anymore.
I find it boring.  :)

I would recommend selenium to anyone who wants to make their CD4 go up.
As for test results, in my case:
1) strenuous running on the day before a check-up means lower CD4
2) sleepless night or not sleeping on the night before check-up means higher CD4 (because it tricks your body unto thinking it's still night, CD4 are higher in the late afternoon and night, and lower in the morning)

« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 12:14:51 PM by elf »

Offline weasel

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 12:51:47 PM »

  Hi   jaace24  ,

                     My CD-4's  were  101   in 2004 .

       They are now around 350 ?    They bounce around a lot !   A few

      years ago I was up to over 1,000 . Then they started to drop and bounce  ???

       Having had HIV from the  early 1980's   I believe I am having a normal

     life span .  The drugs work !    Life goes on    :)

                                           Be well ,
                                                          Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Offline Joe K

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 03:14:49 PM »
I am someone that when diagnosed had low CD4s, 53.  They are now doing good and that was back in January.  My last reading was 220!  Just curious what everyone's lowest was and when that was?  Just wondering with such a low CD4 initially if you can expect to live a normal life span?

I suppose it depends on how long you think a normal life span happens to be.  I became poz in 1985, and my lowest CD4s ever were 4 and my latest labs have my CD4s at 781, my highest number ever.  While I empathize with you being concerned about living a long life, in reality, most of it is simply out of your control.  If you make an effort to live the best life possible and take good care of yourself, in mind, body and spirit, most of the other will take care of yourself.

The key to life, is that it's not how long you live, but rather how well you live.

Joe

Offline WillyWump

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 03:46:19 PM »
My lowest was 250ish, then I started meds went up to 900ish now back down to 489.

Just my experience.

I expect to live normal lifespan, but I try to live every day like I will not.

-Will

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline darryaz

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2013, 04:09:38 PM »
Lowest - 16
Most recent - 740

 :D

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2013, 04:19:23 PM »
Lowest 15
Last check was 275

Offline Disturbed

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2013, 05:39:55 PM »
Lowest 26, highest 200, now 180

And what happens if CD4s go down to 0? It will be 0 forever? Is that even possible?
Jan'12 Diagnosed HIV+ CD4 26 VL 3.400.000
Dec'12 Diagnosed visceral leishmaniasis CD4 60 VL 560
May'13 Diagnosed CIDP CD4 180 VL UD
May'14 CD4 330 VL UD

Offline OneTampa

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  • "Butterflies are free."
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2013, 06:15:49 PM »
My lowest CD4 on record was 75.

Recently I tested at 697.

The last few years I usually test in the 700s.

I went to the 800s about 3 years or so ago.

Been non-detectable for over 11 years.

Going from 28 to 29 years with HIV.
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Offline WillyWump

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2013, 06:29:16 PM »


And what happens if CD4s go down to 0? It will be 0 forever? Is that even possible?

I know of a guy who had 3 (and is still alive and doing great). but not less than that.

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 06:58:23 PM »
ah! I remember the bad ol' days. Days when we didn't even have a viral load test but I knew my CD4 count was only 5. I was hospitalized with PCP twice and one time I had 7 cd4s and another time I had 12. It took me 12 yrs to get over 200 cd4s, and 14 yrs to reach and hold undetectable.

studies have shown that often having a very low nadir can result in a) more health issues, b) slower recovery, and c) less recovery. (slower recovery means it could take years for your cd4s to climb, and less recovery means that they might never climb very far.)

But that's not neccesarily bad news. Sure it's nice to have a high cd4 count; but it's not always about how many cd4s you have but how well the ones you do have are working. Personally I've been living for 16 yrs with less than 300 cd4s and haven't been back to the hospital in all that time - and I've only had 1 bout with a cold and 2 FUOs (fever of unknown origin)

And what happens if CD4s go down to 0? It will be 0 forever?
I don't know that cd4s can ever be measured at zero (it's hard to prove a negative). However, as soon as a patient begins to take ART and the viral load is brought down, the immune system has a chance to recover and climb back up.

Of course, some people that test that low present themselves in a hospital when they are quite ill. If they are not able to live long enough dealing with whatever health issue has put them in the hospital, then there is no chance for much recovery.

for example, my late partner was hospitalized with AIDS (cd4 8, viral load millions) and non-Hodgkins lymphoma. He was put on Atripla and his viral load began falling. However, although he had gone through several rounds of chemo, the 3 tumors continued to grow and he passed away before his immune system could recover.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline elf

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 10:57:43 AM »
My latest (yesterday): 1300
 :)
I remember my first reaction when my CD4 went from 1300/1400 to 700/800,
but I'm used to it now...I guess my normal range is wide: between 750-1350.
I have never had two consecutive ''low'' counts (700, 700), It's always: high-low-high-low etc...

My advice: don't get concerned with numbers...Just take your meds regularly...
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 11:03:42 AM by elf »

Offline jaace24

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  • Posts: 35
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 11:01:09 AM »
Thank you to everyone who has shared, its nice hearing everyone's story.  Hopefully more will come in.

Leatherman sorry to hear about your late partner.  How long have you been infected with HIV?  When was your lowest of 5 if you remember?

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 11:29:34 AM »
Leatherman sorry to hear about your late partner.  How long have you been infected with HIV?  When was your lowest of 5 if you remember?
thank you. :-* the first one died in 1994 and the second one (with the lymphoma) died in 2008. I was just thinking a lot about them recently as they both passed away in the month of May.

This September will mark 29 yrs that I've been HIV+ and this Dec. 26th will mark the 21st anniversary of being diagnosed with AIDS. I had a count of 7 then. Even though the AZT was helpful and got me a couple more years, by the time I was hospitalized with PCP in Mar 1996 (on my 34th birthday), I had the count of only 5. When I was hospitalized in Mar 1998 (2 yrs later and again on my birthday!!) I had a count of 12.

By the way, after many years of having bloodwork done every 4 to 6 weeks, I've been very happy these last few years as my numbers have finally stablized (take a look at the chart in my sig line) and I have been able to stretch out the time between tests. In the last year I have gone from an all time high of 325 to an even higher 418!! After a 5 month stint off, I have labs coming up at the end of the month and am wondering just where they will be this time. I know 418/325 are within the 100 pts a day that cd4s can change but it was awfully nice finally having a good number. (even if that damn pesky cd4/cd8 percentage of 17% puts me just outside the 'aids' range still LOL)

leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline d-boy86

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 12:23:36 PM »
My lowest was 489. My highest was around 1100. I currently average about 800 or so. I haven't seen my CD4's dip below 650 in about 2 years.

Offline klassykitty

  • Member
  • Posts: 381
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2013, 10:59:48 PM »
When I was diagnosed my CD4 was 34, two and half years later I am at 148. 

I expect to live a normal life span as I want to outlive that moron guy who told me I would be dead in a few years.

Michelle 8)
How to handle stress like a dog:
If you can't eat it or play with it.....
then pee on it and walk away

Diagnosed 01-20-2011
01-23  CD4 32    VL 125,400
02-18        76     VL 189
03-14  no cd4 test done   VL-52
04-14   69  VL-UNDECTABLE  YEA!!
05-26   50  whoopsy  
06-27   71        %-7
08-15   64 WTF %-9 
10-16  80         %7  
2012  CD4  %Thing   VL-UD
01-18  87    7
04-18  93    8  
07-16  151  8         
10-18  83    9    VL-70
2013   CD4   %thing       VL-UD
01-28  121     9
04-24  148    11   
07-25  157    11   
10-22  185    13
2014   CD-4  %thing   VL-UD
02-07 201 YEA!!!!!!  12
06-03  205      12

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 11:57:54 PM »
I expect to live a normal life span as I want to outlive that moron guy who told me I would be dead in a few years.
WooHoo! You GO!!

My lowest was 489
maybe we should also try to find out the highest low that someone has had LOL
(btw, I hate you for your numbers, you know? ROFL  ;D )
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 08:15:25 AM »
When I was diagnosed my CD4 was 34, two and half years later I am at 148. 

I expect to live a normal life span as I want to outlive that moron guy who told me I would be dead in a few years.

Michelle 8)

Where's the "like" button when you really need it? :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 09:02:38 AM »
Hi,..

I was diagnosed positive in 1985. Honestly, I have no idea, what my t-cell count was, for quite a few years, until 1999.

I do know this,  in 1999, my t-cell count was in the mid-900 range.

By October of 2003, ( almost 18 years after I was infected) and after serious  opportunistic infections, my t-cell count had plummeted to 16.

I began treatment in October of 2003, and it's been a struggle. The highest my t-cell count has been since 2003, is 580 and that was in December of 2012.

Currently  t cells  are @ 373 and that test was done April 29th 2013.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 10:42:13 AM »
Where's the "like" button when you really need it? :)

that's from both Ann and I, K-Kitty  :-*
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 04:14:22 AM »
Where's the "like" button when you really need it? :)

No shit, right?

I had a really good experience with my first real doctor giving EXACTLY the right advice I needed at the time.

Offline LOSTBOYZ

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 07:40:34 AM »
My lowest was 425 CD4, last year in July, when i started therapy
My highest is now, at 715 CD4 after 11 months of terapy.
Ciao
 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2013, 08:15:29 AM »
My lowest actual cd4 count was 189 on 12 February 1994, my lowest cd4 percentage was 14% on 29 June 1993. For some reason I always thought they had gone down to 161 but I actually went and dug up a folder where I tracked my first 15 months of lab results (couldn't be bothered after that...) and nope, they never went that low.

So actually I only went into AIDSville twice, the afore mentioned 189 count and another of 192. The rest of the time they were ~250 so since my diagnosis was the first time I ever took an HIV test I guess I really lucked out time-wise, didn't I? I definitely would have been in a hospital bed within another six months to a year.

Now to cheer you up the highest they've gone is 1785 on 16 May 2012, and 55.3% last month. They've actually been consistently +1000 now for six entire years. But I still get upper respiratory infections (like this week) at least every other year and have done so since I was a young child. I don't get normal colds though very often.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 08:27:20 AM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
lowest  was  2  in 1994  started  meds  immediately , climbed to  140  in a few months  then a  long climb  to  490  this  past  month   always  on the  upswing with a  few very  minor dips  over the  years 

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline mitch777

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2013, 12:33:49 PM »
Lowest for me was 250ish back around 1995. VL had spiked at 170,000ish about the same time.
(again, just in time for the good meds)
The CD4's have hung out in the 500-800 range for the last several years.
My latest (Jan. 2013) results were my best.

CD4 1066
VL    UD
%     38

Not too shabby for being infected since Oct. 1982.
But, as we all know, numbers don't paint the whole picture.
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2013, 01:08:54 PM »
I had a CD4 count of 4 back in March of 2010.

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2013, 07:23:05 PM »
I had a CD4 count of 4 back in March of 2010.
and just look at you now, Hopey!!  :D :-* :D

while we had some seriously bad change come to our lives and we're not where we thought we would be, there is something to be said for being back home and being alive ;) lolz  (and what's with this danged weather? Rain, rain, rain. finally we're about to have our first day in the 90s. sheesh! It's only a month late! I swear, it's like Springtime in Ohio not in S Carolina. ROFLMAO)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline synergyhomepage

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2013, 02:14:20 PM »
Hey guys and gals, I tested poz in 1994

in july of 2007 i had a CD4 of zero, started truvada and norvir w/?

only stayed on meds for a year. Moved and lost insurance ;(

in DEC of 2011 I was back to zero and started again, truvada abd issentress.

Im currently arount 120, vl is still hovering around 80 and am now trying prezista truvada combo.  Just had labs this morning, will find out next week how I am doing. 

Im told ill live a normal lirfe, probably olonger than normal because of the regular life because of the excelent care i get constantly.

Dave

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2013, 08:08:08 PM »
Lowest 2002: 58

Highest 2013: 1150

Offline tednlou2

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2013, 12:50:11 AM »
Lowest recorded was 171, although that was an artificial number due to being very ill.  Highest was like 1,080, obtained shortly after a short course of Sustiva. 

Offline joemutt

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2013, 04:14:18 AM »
1997 : 220
now : hovering around 1000.

Offline wolfter

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »
I was down to single digits with a vl of 6.7 million.  I now linger in the 500's and ud.  At that point I gave each of my t-cells a name.  I figured if we knew each other more intimately, they'd be less likely to leave. :D
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline mitch777

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2013, 05:03:52 PM »
I was down to single digits with a vl of 6.7 million.  I now linger in the 500's and ud.  At that point I gave each of my t-cells a name.  I figured if we knew each other more intimately, they'd be less likely to leave. :D
good plan!
guess they stuck around and multiplied! :)
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline gavelkind

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2013, 07:19:00 PM »
Wow. I didn't know you could get to zero...

I lucked out with my CD4's. My first count this past March was 885/39%, which really surprised me since I'm pretty sure I became infected over a year ago.

I'm on meds now and my CD4 are slowly getting better (at least percentage wise).
2/13- Diagnosed
3/13- CD4,  885/39%   VL, 135,542
5/13- CD4,  867/46%   VL, 553
6/13- CD4,  720/42%   VL, 32
7/13- CD4,  1095/36%  VL, <20
10/13- CD4, 884/47%   VL, 42
1/14- CD4,  1165/48%  VL, 31
2/14- CD4,  1214/46%  VL, <20
5/14- CD4,  1715/49%  VL, <20

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2013, 11:06:43 PM »
Hey there Gavelkind  :D
My first count this past March was 885/39%, which really surprised me since I'm pretty sure I became infected over a year ago.
I know sometimes people get tired of me pulling out this graphic but it explains so much and is very informative to people who just don't know enough info yet


after the initial infection, the viral load goes up a lot and cd4s drop; but then, as the body adjusts to the infection, the viral load drops back low and the cd4s bounce back up. By the time a person has been infected for 4-6 months, "clinical latency" sets in. During this time period of 1 to 10 yrs, cd4s very slowly decline while the viral load very slowly climbs. Eventually, without medications, AIDS and Death happens.

The lesson to then learn from this graphic and info is that by the time the first year went by, it was NOT surprising that you had a low viral load and high cd4 count. That's how it usually happens.  ;) If you had not started meds you would have eventually been able to see the downward trend through the years of the clinical latency period.

I'm on meds now and my CD4 are slowly getting better (at least percentage wise).
you do know your cd4  - both absolute 885 and percentage wise 39% - are pretty damned stupendous right now, don't you? LOL You might not want to be expecting too much more "improvement" when your numbers are already at the top of the normal range. ;D
Quote
but normal CD4 counts are between 500 and 1600
...
The normal range is between 20% and 40%. A CD4 percentage below 14% indicates serious immune damage. It is a sign of AIDS in people with HIV infection.
http://www.aids.org/topics/aids-factsheets/aids-background-information/what-is-aids/hiv-testing/cd4-t-cell-tests/
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2013, 01:00:43 AM »
That graphic is like Ryan Gosling's abs. Never stop pulling that out. It's beautiful.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline Ann

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2013, 06:29:40 AM »
That graphic is like Ryan Gosling's abs. Never stop pulling that out. It's beautiful.

I agree.

The only thing that narks me about that graph is that it so often leads people (newly diagnosed or WWs) to think that they'll be dead in ten years after infection. I wish they made it more clear that ten years is only an example - the "clinical latency" period can be much longer, or even much shorter.

Oh well, if I ruled the world and all that. ;D
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Jeff G

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2013, 09:24:44 AM »
Graphs and charts to us with a touch of dyslexia are like the round room Helen Keller jokes when we were kids . I think I sprained an eyeball .

Offline OneTampa

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2013, 09:40:46 AM »
For some reason, I always think of a theme park and roller coaster rides when I look at graphs like that.  Maybe its a visceral thing.  ;)

Posted by another Board Member who was told that he had at most about 2 years to live 28 years ago.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 09:43:55 AM by OneTampa »
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Offline Disturbed

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2013, 03:47:17 PM »
Well that graphic is from an "average" infection, but it is not always like this, like in my case.
I am 99% sure that I was infected someday between Dec'10 to Feb'11 an only one year later when the test was positive I had already a viral load of 3.4 millions and CD4 of 26, a severe wasting syndrome (20kg lost) but lucky to not have any serious opportunistic infection.
Sometimes the body doesn't adjust to the virus after the primary infection and there is no clinical latency, the viral load just keep growing and growing exponentially very fast.
Jan'12 Diagnosed HIV+ CD4 26 VL 3.400.000
Dec'12 Diagnosed visceral leishmaniasis CD4 60 VL 560
May'13 Diagnosed CIDP CD4 180 VL UD
May'14 CD4 330 VL UD

Offline buginme2

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2013, 04:05:26 PM »
I bet Leather has a poster of that graph on his bedroom wall.

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2013, 09:21:24 PM »
Quote
Well that graphic is from an "average" infection,
the mean is 9.4 yrs (i had a link earlier, but lost it. you could google it or you could trust me  ;) look for a study from 2002). the average is anywhere from 8 to 15. So anyway you look at it hiv infection to symptoms/AIDS is about 10 years ---- on AVERAGE.

average, as in "a single value (as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values" (thank you merriam-webster) means that for most people this clinical latency period is not exactly 10 yrs; but it IS somewhere around 10 yrs. However, for every person like Disturbed that didn't make it a year, there's somebody (like a good friend of mine) that lasted 15 yrs.

One thing we've surely all seen (or trust me, you will see it), is that HIV is pretty damned different for everyone. Between lengths of time to get from one condition to another, to what OI people get when they reach AIDS, to the different meds that work for them, to which side effect people experience, to what long terms issues people experience.

the advocate in me would also point out that the discrepency in the latency period NOT being exactly 10 yrs is one of many reasons why testing is so very important. The sooner a person finds out their poz status the sooner (or more likely it is) that they can be treated in time to stave off a host of problems ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2013, 09:30:25 PM »
I bet Leather has a poster of that graph on his bedroom wall.
:D it's on every computer I own (in case I need to show someone); I have a print out that I use when peer counseling the newbies; and I have it on photobucket to share it around with you good peoples ;) :D

however, that kind of artwork in my bedroom would probably be a serious detriment to getting laid :o , so no, that chart is NOT on any of Leatherman's bedroom walls ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline aaware72

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2013, 12:17:46 PM »
Hi,

Mine was 230 when I had my first test after I found out I was + 

"Yes, knowledge is power. Self-knowledge brings mastery of one's body."

Offline gavelkind

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2013, 02:56:02 PM »
Hey there Gavelkind  :DI know sometimes people get tired of me pulling out this graphic but it explains so much and is very informative to people who just don't know enough info yet

after the initial infection, the viral load goes up a lot and cd4s drop; but then, as the body adjusts to the infection, the viral load drops back low and the cd4s bounce back up. By the time a person has been infected for 4-6 months, "clinical latency" sets in. During this time period of 1 to 10 yrs, cd4s very slowly decline while the viral load very slowly climbs. Eventually, without medications, AIDS and Death happens.

The lesson to then learn from this graphic and info is that by the time the first year went by, it was NOT surprising that you had a low viral load and high cd4 count. That's how it usually happens. 

Hey Leatherman!
I understand the graph but does 135K count as a low viral load? I thought that was an extremely high number. I THINK I became infected a year before finding out so that explains my high CD4's but not a high viral load, right? Shouldn't it be lower? Does that mean my CD4's would be even higher if the VL wasn't so high? Or maybe I became infected closer to when I got tested? I doubt that though since I hadn't barebacked for a year. Then I read something about how people who test over 100K for viral load develop AIDS quicker if not on meds? Ugh.
2/13- Diagnosed
3/13- CD4,  885/39%   VL, 135,542
5/13- CD4,  867/46%   VL, 553
6/13- CD4,  720/42%   VL, 32
7/13- CD4,  1095/36%  VL, <20
10/13- CD4, 884/47%   VL, 42
1/14- CD4,  1165/48%  VL, 31
2/14- CD4,  1214/46%  VL, <20
5/14- CD4,  1715/49%  VL, <20

Offline buginme2

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2013, 03:07:13 PM »
Chart schmart

It's all reading tea leaves

Offline Ann

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2013, 07:27:45 AM »

Chart schmart

It's all reading tea leaves


;D "Chart schmart", made me fart giggle. 

But it's true to an extent. That chart is only a broad example, a generalisation, a "stock picture", if you will.

That's one of the reasons why hiv can be such a bitch to figure out - no two people's bodies ever react to it in exactly the same way.

Gravel, it could be that you were infected more recently than you thought. If you bottom, maybe a condom broke or went missing that you don't know about.

It could be that you caught it just at the right time when your VL was spiking (yes, that's a high VL), but before it had a chance to fuck up too many CD4s.

It's all speculation. You'll probably never know, so I'd advise you to just let it go.

"Then I read something about how people who test over 100K for viral load develop AIDS quicker if not on meds? Ugh." Why are you "ughing" over this? You ARE on meds and you have NOT developed aids.

You're not likely to now either. You've had a fantastic response to the meds, considering where your VL started out. You're all but UD already after two months. Some people who start meds with such high VLs can take up to a year or sometimes more to reach UD.

What matters the most is that you started treatment and now that you're on treatment, the most important thing is that you remain adherent. Take them every day.

Forget about the other stuff. It's not important. You're here now and you're having a fantastic response to the meds. It's all good, believe it or not.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline notimeforthat

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2013, 06:55:48 AM »
March 2013-1st Lab
29

June 2013- 2nd Lab
146

I was hoping for better, but oh well. 8)


Offline leatherman

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2013, 01:53:54 PM »
I was hoping for better, but oh well. 8)
that's nearly a 500% increase in 3 months!!;) that's not too shabby for being so low.

Didn't your doctor tell you that it could take 6 months to a year to make a decent climb (>250)? Studies have shown that people that reach a very low nadir often take a long time to recover and don't recover too much. (of course, everyones' story if different, but that is the generalization) For quite a few people >300 wasn't reached for decades. Check back through the beginning of this thread and check out the replies. I counted at least half a dozen people that had a much, much worse recovery than you're having - and they are doing pretty well today (ie look what I wrote " It took me 12 yrs to get over 200 cd4s, and 14 yrs to reach and hold undetectable....I've been living for 16 yrs with less than 300 cd4s and haven't been back to the hospital in all that time")

you really be much more concerned about viral load. When HIV isn't able to replicate uncontrolled in your system, your immune system can recover to whatever it's going to recover to in however long it needs to take to recover.

btw keep in mind you probably don't even know your "normal" pre-hiv CD4 count. if yours was 300-500, you're already halfway recovered in 3 months!

keep you chin up  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline le_liseur

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Re: How low did your CD4s get?
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2013, 02:25:15 PM »
Hello!

My lowest count, I don't really remember exactly, but it was around 600 or 650. My highest was around 1100. The latest one was 1000 or 1050. I've been diagnosed for almost 4 years and I'm 26. I started Complera 7 days ago, no side effects with it so far, and I did that because I want to keep my CD4s the level they are. :)

My VL is around 12,000 (or 8,000... I have a bad memory with it). The highest it was was around 32,000.

 


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