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Author Topic: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?  (Read 1755 times)

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Offline alanrudy

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My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« on: June 04, 2013, 02:44:12 PM »
Hello,
I am new to the forum and have been reading quite a bit. I am really thankful and grateful for any advice and answers on my stressful situation.

On February 16th of this year I had sex with a prostitute in Mexico (I am from California). I have done that before (never again), but this time I had a bad feeling about the girl and the experience. After 3 days I noticed a black dot on the head of my penis. I had been more paranoid lately anyway and my mind went off the deep when I saw this. I can't confirm it in my mind (partly because I had been drinking) but I was suspicious that she had pricked me with something before the condom was on and after the sex the condom didn't look right (I think this is likely because I didn't leave a gap at the tip of the penis).
A month later I developed a very severe flu. I hadn't been sick in like 2 years and it did feel like it either was or close to the worst fever and malaise I've ever had (which I have come to learn now is what AVS is sometimes described as). It was just a severe fever at first, but other symptoms I developed were a dry cough and drenching night sweats that would cover my body, sheets, and mattress. Symptoms subsided after two weeks. While this was extremely scary when I learned about what AVS was on 5/22, there are some ordinary justifiable reasons for that sickness too:
1. Although the spot near the head of my penis did look like a recovering prick wound, it could be from the friction of sex.
2. I remember eating a hamburger meal that day and felt terrible right away after eating it, like it was going to get me sick (I did have a bad bm 5 hours after but no stomach symptoms besides loss of appetite during the sickness, just the next day the fever, dry cough, night sweats I mentioned above).
2. I had been taking a soy/capsaicin supplement before the high risk exposure that wrecked my hormones and made me feel very terrible and still feel I haven't fully recovered from. This could have been it clearing my body somewhat and/or reducing my ability to respond to illness like I usually do.
3. This was a terrible flu season from what I've been told. My symptoms, especially the dry cough, could have been h1n1 too.
4. A couple days prior, I had quit taking energy drinks after a year long daily addiction of 1 or 2 5 Hour Energies or similar drink. Maybe this was also my body adjusting to that.

I got tested this last Wednesday 5/22, which is 13.5 weeks since that high risk incident. The test came back on 5/24 negative, no antibodies to HIV Type 1, including group 0 and/or Type 2. The HIV antibody result was determined by the Bayer ADVIA CENTAUR assay.  I also did an Oraquick test on 5/29 (14.5 weeks) that confirmed the negative result.

It's good news that I'm HIV negative, there is still a little concern though because my fever/flu seemed to come so close to describing AVS, how people recommend the Elisa after 6 months, and the uneasiness about my risky experience. Also on my lab sheet it says a Negative antibody screen does not exclude the possibility of exposure to or infection with HIV. My questions/concerns are:

1. How confident should I be that I am HIV negative...in a percentage?  How much more certain would a 6 month test be?
2. Are there other sub-types of HIV I should be worried about since that incident was in Mexico?
4. What other tests would be wise to do? PCR? Viral count?

I have been as thorough as possible This has likely been the most stressful situation in my life. You have no idea how thankful and grateful I am for any advise and help. Thank you.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 03:10:47 PM »
I will cut to the chase before I answer your three questions.

You did not have a risk and do not need to test. There is no way a person could inject you with infected blood on your penis without your attention. Your utmost attention. And she would have had to draw the blood or infectious fluid almost immediately beforehand. Such an act would not have escaped your notice.

Also, condoms are designed to fail catastrophically.  They are engineered that way. You wouldhave known had your condom failed. It did not.

You have been worrying over nothing in this instance. As Moderator Andy is fond of saying, "feelings are not facts." Your "bad feeling" about the girl might or might not be accurate - but there is no way she gave you HIV. Given the difficulty in transmitting HIV from female to male through sexual intercourse, it would certainly be a waste of her diabolical talents to try to do so.

Now your questions.

Quote
1. How confident should I be that I am HIV negative...in a percentage?  How much more certain would a 6 month test be?
2. Are there other sub-types of HIV I should be worried about since that incident was in Mexico?
4. What other tests would be wise to do? PCR? Viral count?

1. The gold standard for HIV testing has been three months/12 weeks since 2004. You do not need testing at six months, and any resource that says you do is outdated, misinformed, and quite likely to give further inaccurate information.

2. No. current HIV testing accounts for every known strain.

3/4. Absolutely not. Even is you were infected, a PCR test is accurate for a tiny window days after exposure. PCR testing is an expensive and error-prone (false positive!) test that is NOT used to diagnose HIV in the general population.


You are conclusively HIV negative, both through your testing history and the fact that you had no risk.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 03:12:59 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 04:34:38 PM »
Thank you so much jkinatl2 for that thorough answer!  I do agree that I really should have noticed if that happened but I had been going through a tough time with various problems paying attention and had been drinking.  When I think back at it, it worries me because I wasn't sure how I got that bump on the head of my penis (although it could be friction).  I was just thinking about getting laid at the time, and I feel like there were a couple weird instances with how she was "handling" it at first, and she was just acting really weird the whole time, even when I saw her on the street after.
My mind was racing that maybe this was her way at getting back at people if she got it through her profession and thinking doing that to a lot of people would help find a cure.  That's good to hear about condoms and how they are designed to work.
Your reply was complete and really reassuring, I thank you so much.  If it is at all possible though, please answer these last questions:

1.  Based on the tests (not risk because I still feel that's a little up in the air), would you be able to put in a % how likely I am negative.  Is it 97% or 99.5%?
2.  There are many resources, including wikipedia, that say 6 months is more accurate, I will take your experience word that 3 months is okay.  Wikipedia also says there are 3 cases of a positive test showing up after 1 year though.  Any thoughts?
3.  If I wanted to donate/contribute something for this cause, what would you recommend would be a good way/organization to do it with?

Thank you again so much for your help.
 
   

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 04:58:27 PM »
Quote
1.  Based on the tests (not risk because I still feel that's a little up in the air), would you be able to put in a % how likely I am negative.  Is it 97% or 99.5%?
2.  There are many resources, including wikipedia, that say 6 months is more accurate, I will take your experience word that 3 months is okay.  Wikipedia also says there are 3 cases of a positive test showing up after 1 year though.  Any thoughts?
3.  If I wanted to donate/contribute something for this cause, what would you recommend would be a good way/organization to do it with?


1. Based on the tests, you are HIV negative. I won't bother telling you again that you had no risk. You won't believe me. Therefore, the essential reason for this exchange to exist (risk assessment) is already a failure.

2. Wikipedia is not a reliable resource. You realize anyoen can edit it, right?

Try this:

http://www.cdc.gov/globalaids/Resources/pmtct-care/docs/TM/Module_6TM.pdf
Page 11
#4
  In an adult, a positive HIV antibody test result means that the person is infected, a person with a negative or inconclusive result may be in the “window for 4 to 6 weeks but occasionally up to 3 months after HIV exposure. Persons at high risk who initially test negative should be retested 3 months after exposure to confirm results

The standard has been three months since 2004. Period. If you are dissatisfied with that answer, you will have to look elsewhere for another one. We base our risk assessment directly on science, not outdated aggregate sourcing.

3. If you wish to donate to this site, feel free to take out a subscription (all those who have not tested positive are only allowed to post here and in the Off-topc forums. This forum requires a subscription after three free posts. We really are on a shoestring, and almost all of us are volunteer health educator/activists).

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Jeff G

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 07:04:52 PM »
I would like to add that I pass no judgements on sex workers or the people who frequent them and you shouldn't either . When you hire a sex worker you are now a part of that industry yourself and the economy that drives it . Sex workers do get STD's and its from guys just like you . Its in their best interest to have safe consensual sex just as it is for you . I assure you sex workers want to avoid HIV just as badly as you do .

HIV positive people are not vindictive fiends looking for revenge and being a sex worker doesn't make you a homicidal maniac any more than hiring one does ... if you respect yourself , then show a little for the woman you hired , look her up and tell her you have excellent news , you are HIV negative and you didn't give her Aids .   

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 10:43:39 PM »
Thanks jkinatl2 and Jeff G,
1.  I don't agree it is a failure jkinatl2, your opinion is that I had no risk (and I am very pleased to read that), my opinion is that there might be a little risk based on all the details of what happened and having that severe flu and reading about avs worried me.  I haven't/don't think I have ever had a wound like that on the head of the penis (I still want to get tested for sti's).  I hope it was just from friction.  So based on the tests (not risk because I still feel there might be a little up in the air), would you be able to put in a % how likely I am negative.  Is it 97% or 99.5%?

2.  I don't really wish to have a subscription, but would like to donate at least something little.  Is there a way I can maybe pay pal something little? 

3.  Jeff G, I agree with a lot of what you said, I actually really liked them before this scary incident, maybe I can even go back to them in some capacity but this incident really spooked me into being more careful.  I am not passing judgement on them, but I do think something was just weird about that one.  There can be a little off people like that in really any occupation I guess.  Ditto for not being vindictive, but there could be some that are.  I'm very impressed to have read stories of people who have been very strong with this.  There's no way I can look her up besides going there again.       

Offline Ann

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2013, 07:23:01 AM »

2.  I don't really wish to have a subscription, but would like to donate at least something little.  Is there a way I can maybe pay pal something little? 
     

Alan,

The easiest way to donate to this site is by taking out a subscription (and it can be done through Pay-Pal). You don't have to use it to post and the information that you are a subscriber is only known to admin and mods - it's our little secret between us and the member in question.

Instructions for taking out a subscription (aka "making a donation") is in the Pay-For-Participation Subscription Instructions thread at the top of this forum.

Thank you in advance - advertisements on this website don't bring in as much revenue as some may imagine and subscriptions/donations help keep this place up and running. Most of us are volunteers, but there are other costs associated with running a forum with as much traffic as we get.


To help answer some of your questions...

The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six WEEKS, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days.

A six week negative is highly unlikely to change, but must be confirmed at the three month point.

The meds/supplements you've been taking will have NO effect on your window period, and most people will test poz by six weeks regardless of what antibody test is being used.

You also need to realise that the illness that some people experience during primary hiv infection is caused by the body's reaction to the creation of antibodies.

Most of the symptoms/illness that people experience during infections such as 'flu are also caused by the creation of antibodies and general immune response to that particular pathogen - the fever, body aches, gastro-intestinal upset, swollen glands etc etc etc.

That's why one cannot diagnose hiv by symptoms - the symptoms are the result of antibody production and immune system response regardless of what pathogen the antibodies are being created to protect the body against.

If your illness had anything to do with hiv, you WOULD have tested positive by now.

You have NOT tested positive and even if you had a risk (you did NOT have a risk), you are conclusively  hiv negative.

You do NOT have hiv!

For future reference, here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED FURTHER HIV TESTING AT THIS TIME, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2013, 08:45:29 PM »
Thank you so much for your reply Ann.  I completed the donation/subscription.  I do know that I'm being paranoid about it and that can be made fun of, but if you do know the actual percentage, I would really appreciate it.  Again the question and one more question:
1.  So based on the tests (not risk because I still feel there might be a little up in the air), would you be able to put in a % how likely I am negative.  Are tests I took 97% or 99.5% after 3 months?
2.  As I mentioned, I haven't/don't think I have ever had a wound like that on the head of the penis (I still want to get tested for sti's).  The severe flu and reading about avs worried me. I hope it was just from friction.  Do you think there is much possibility that there is a type of HIV/AIDS that have not been discovered yet?

I apologize again for being paranoid and thank you all for your help.

Offline Ann

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 08:08:30 AM »
Alan,

1. You are 100%, conclusively hiv negative.

2. Chances are you've had all sorts of spots and whatnot on your penis over the years and just didn't notice because you weren't being paranoid and micro-examining your body/penis before. If you're worried about other, MUCH more easily transmitted STIs, go see a doctor and get the tests done. As a sexually active adult you should be doing this at least once a year anyway.

3. New strains of hiv we don't know about yet? Dream on. Hiv is one of the most studied virus in the world.

If you can't stop your paranoid thoughts about hiv, I recommend you see a therapist who is trained in CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) which will teach you how to stop unwanted thoughts. We cannot help you with that here.

I would also like to advise you at this time that even though you took out a subscription (thank you for the donation), you must still follow our rules, including the one below which appears in the Welcome Thread, which you should have read before posting.

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 03:42:11 PM »
Thank you Ann for your reply!
I think that is a great rule.  On Wikipedia I read about 3 cases where HIV showed up after a year (don't know if that is legitimate, is it?) and elsewhere people denying their negative results really fed my paranoia.  I do plan on doing some kind of therapy, but I don't think I am denying my negative status now, I just want to confirm how accurate the tests are.
I've had a bump before, but never on the head of the penis with such a high risk situation.  It looked like a recovering prick wound, but hope it was just friction.  The tests are negative.  :); I will get checked for sti's and usually do.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 04:05:06 PM »
Thank you Ann for your reply!
I think that is a great rule.  On Wikipedia I read about 3 cases where HIV showed up after a year (don't know if that is legitimate, is it?) and elsewhere people denying their negative results really fed my paranoia.  I do plan on doing some kind of therapy, but I don't think I am denying my negative status now, I just want to confirm how accurate the tests are.
I've had a bump before, but never on the head of the penis with such a high risk situation.  It looked like a recovering prick wound, but hope it was just friction.  The tests are negative.  :); I will get checked for sti's and usually do.

I am going to take another stab at this. You keep mentioning a "high-risk situation" when you have been repeatedly told you had no risk. You quote Wikipedia, of all places (you realize anyone can edite a page there, right? It's NOT a reliable source).And you ar fixated on a spot on your penis. Take your penis to a doctor. Take your concerns to someone who can actualy help you get past this. I honestly don't know what else we can do for you.

You are conclusively negative.

You had no risk.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 05:44:13 PM »
Thanks jkinatl2.  I've had sex plenty without a friction bump on the head of the penis.  I hope it is just friction from sex.  I hear ya, I will go to the doctor for sti's.  I tried going to a doctor for hiv to see if they can answer that question on accuracy but they only see patients who are hiv positive.  I am happy I am conclusively negative, I just want to confirm how accurate %wise the tests are for the time I took them.

Offline Ann

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 07:39:42 AM »
Alan,

You do not have hiv.

You did not have a risk for hiv infection.

Even if you DID have a risk (you did NOT have a risk), you are still conclusively hiv negative. The tests are accurate in the time frame you had them done.

Please re-read your thread (instead of searching the internet where you're going to find loads of WRONG information) until what we've told you sinks in. We've answered all your questions repeatedly.

If you do keep posting, you WILL be given that time out I warned you about. There's nothing further we can do for you here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline alanrudy

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 12:15:55 AM »
Thank you for your reply.  Okay Ann, I understand.  The only question I've kept posting and asking (which I don't think has been answered yet) is the accuracy %wise the tests are for the time I took them.  I didn't think asking the accuracy %wise would be so bad.  But the tests are negative :), I do think they are very accurate, and I understand if that can't/won't be answered.  Thank you for your help.

Offline Ann

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Re: My risk and Accuracy of non-Elisa tests after 3 months?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 07:31:24 AM »

The only question I've kept posting and asking (which I don't think has been answered yet) is the accuracy %wise the tests are for the time I took them. 


Alan,

1. You are 100%, conclusively hiv negative.



Even if you DID have a risk (you did NOT have a risk), you are still conclusively hiv negative. The tests are accurate in the time frame you had them done.


Alan,

As you can see, your questions have indeed been answered. RE-READ your entire thread until it sinks in.

Get a grip. You never had a risk in the first place. If you cannot accept that fact, then perhaps it's time you found a therapist to work with. We cannot help you with your mental health issues here.

I'm giving you that time out I warned you about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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