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Author Topic: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?  (Read 15608 times)

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Offline Tadeys

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Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« on: May 06, 2013, 12:33:58 PM »
A little more than 30 years ago, when the scope of the HIV/Aids pandemic became public knowledge, an understandable mood of despair settled on the medical community and general public. The disease was considered deadly and seemingly immune to treatments available at the time, but today there is reason for optimism.

In mid 2010, a little girl was born to a woman somewhere in Mississippi in the US. The mother had no pre-natal care and, thus, did not know that she was infected with HIV. A routine test showed she was. Sadly, so was her newborn.

The doctors transferred the baby to University of Mississippi Medical Centre and put her on three antiviral drugs (AZT, 3TC, and Nevirapine) at higher-than-usual dosages, beginning only 30 hours after birth. That swift and strong remedy killed the virus before it could create “hideouts” or “niches” in the child’s immune system.

Months later, doctors announced that even though her blood showed traces of HIV, the virus was not able to replicate or invade other cells. Medics then declared the child “functionally cured”, meaning the virus was in long-term remission.

The Berlin Patient

That, however, was not the only “cure” announced. In 2007, Timothy Ray Brown, popularly known as the “Berlin Patient”, became the first man on record to have been cured of HIV, triggering a flurry of medical trials across the world as researchers believed the therapy could be replicated or modified to treat other patients. Brown’s story is arguably one of the most followed in the realm of HIV research.

Nearer home, a similar trial is being conducted by Dr Simon Barasa Situma of the Technical University of Kenya, formerly Kenya Polytechnic. Dr Barasa has modified the world’s first recorded HIV “cure” and says it has worked effectively on four of his patients and that another 18 currently under observation “are doing well”.

“Consecutive tests show they carry no virus, but we have to monitor them for at least six to 12 months to be sure they are free of HIV,” explained Dr Barasa, a practising pharmacist, during a presentation last week at TM’s Second World Virology and Microbiology Conference in New York.

“I have demonstrated the HIV cure in two people by stopping rapid multiplication of CD4 progenitor cells in the bone marrow, where the HIV virus hides (to avoid) elimination by the immune system and thus achieved the first complete cure without bone marrow transplantation,” Dr Barasa said.

His treatment, he says, is based on the world’s first known cure of HIV, that of Timothy Ray Brown, 47, who was diagnosed with HIV in 1995 and put on ARVs, but in 2006 developed leukaemia (blood cancer) and, for this reason, was given a bone marrow transplant with a rare gene mutation that provides natural resistance to HIV.

His doctor, Gero Hutter, said this resistance seemed to have been transferred to Brown, but Dr Barasa says this was not the case, arguing that the removal of Brown’s bone marrow did it.

“Removing the bone marrow, where the CD4 cells replicate, denied the virus the capacity to replicate and consequently the patient was free of HIV,” says Dr Barasa. Since the new bone marrow was resistant to the virus, the already existing bugs in circulation and from the secondary reservoirs — which include the brain, glands, intestines, and skin — could not create new hideouts, hence the ultimate eradication of the virus.

Bone marrow transplantation is a very expensive, specific, and dangerous procedure, which makes Brown’s treatment impossible to apply to the more than 30 million people with HIV. However, according to Dr Barasa, purging the virus from some specific locations where it seems to hide is the way out.

Treat cancer

Medical doctors using antiretrovirals are able to bring down a patient’s viral load to undetectable levels, but once the patient stops the medication, the viral load goes up again.

“This means there is a reservoir in the body where the virus is hiding and where the ARVs are not able to reach. The hideout is in some parts of the bone marrow. Get rid of this reservoir and, theoretically, you are home and dry,” Dr Barasa says, adding that he has achieved this using a method that comprises the use of a cancer drug (methotraxate) in combination with other agents. Two patients who have undergone the therapy, Dr Barasa adds, have shown no signs of the virus for the past six months.

Methotrexate is used to treat cancer but is indicated to have very serious side effects and should not be used without advice from a competent physician.

“Although the drug is available in local pharmacies on prescription, it must never be used without clear instruction from your doctors,” says Dr Barasa.

The lecturer has since applied for a patent with the Kenya Industrial Property Institute for the treatment process, titled Cure for HIV/Aids Virus.

“Our methodology is simple, safe, acceptable, and cheap, although not yet scientifically validated,” says Dr Barasa in his case study. Even though we could not verify the claims, Dr Barasa says two patients, a man aged 29 and a woman aged 40, both of whom had previously been diagnosed with HIV and put on antiretroviral medication, “are now functionally cured”.

“We treated them with methotrexate, which works by suppressing rapid expansion of the specialised stem cells in the bone marrow, called hematopoietic cells,” he says.

The treatment consists of a combination of agents that are given in a methodology that is tailored to suit individual patients with continuous laboratory monitoring by Pathologist Lancet Kenya Limited, a fully-fledged reference laboratory situated in Nairobi’s Upper Hill area that boasts a wide test menu, including sophisticated molecular tests.

Within two weeks, he says, the patients showed tremendous improvement, healing of symptoms related to HIV/Aids and recorded undetectable viral loads in their blood after eight weeks for the man and 10 weeks for the woman.

Undetectable loads

“They have remained with undetectable levels of viral loads six months after the procedure,” says Dr Barasa who, on the road to this treatment together with his colleagues, regularly sought advice from both Mr Brown and his doctor through email exchanges.

In one such communication they wrote to the cured patient: “We are working diligently here in Kenya to see if we can achieve the same status as you did by interfering with the bone marrow, which is the critical reservoir for the virus.”

Dr Isaac Orina, a neuroscientist and chairman of the Department of Pharmaceutical Technology at Technical University of Kenya, says it is too early to celebrate victory “since the HIV/Aids war is far from over”.

“The disease is still a significant health threat in the world,” says Dr Orina, “but whether it’s going to be a complete cure for HIV or not, the fact remains that functional cure has a huge potential in eradicating the pandemic. A lot of research is, however, needed, and we are closely following Dr Barasa’s work. We hope the university will work with him once the preliminary findings are scientifically validated.”

Dr Orina says what Dr Barasa and other doctors around the world are doing is “very interesting” and can be an important step towards getting rid of the HIV virus.

“The only thing that we need is government support. Most scientists here lack funds to conduct research on such essential health issues,” he concludes.

As he waits for funds, Dr Barasa is holed up in his laboratory, shaking the tree of science.

http://www.africareview.com/Special-Reports/After-Berlin-Man--two-reported-cured-of-HIV-in-Kenya/-/979182/1843388/-/3saq6o/-/index.html


Offline Tadeys

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 01:34:36 PM »
HIV hoaxs seem to come a lot from Africa, but this doc SEEMS legit. He has worked with the University of North Carolina in the past in trials tied to Kenya using Vorinostat. This article says "he [Dr. Basara] has achieved this using a method that comprises the use of a cancer drug (methotraxate) in combination with other agents. Other agents? Hummmmmmmm. Fingers crossed.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 01:39:47 PM »
I will probably be the guy with egg on his face for mocking someone they day a cure is actually found and announced . I have heard it too many times before to even be curious enough to click a link that says aids and cure in the same link .

The newly poz scour the earth for a hope for a cure , I still have that hope too but my energy has shifted from looking for a cure to one of living a happy life with HIV .

Its good we discuss and report these things , it can reveal some ingenious science or a list of charlatans to look out for .   

Offline JazJon

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 02:34:17 PM »
Sounds great and makes sense but I'd like to see other sources confirm this is real.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hiv+methotrexate+cure

If you narrow google search to "news" only, the main link in the Original post is the ONLY one that comes up.   Shouldn't this be announced in more than one place if its legit.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 02:37:14 PM by JazJon »

Offline buginme2

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 03:29:47 PM »

The newly poz scour the earth for a hope for a cure , I still have that hope too but my energy has shifted from looking for a cure to one of living a happy life with HIV .

I have a severe case of cure fatigue.

Almost on a daily basis there is a post such as this one.  I wonder, are people really putting their hopes in these types of stories?   How sad it is to put faith in the fact that a cure is right around the corner, or there will be a breakthrough "within months."  It reminds me of Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin. 

The part that gets me a little is that, HIV sucks I am right there with everyone on that and I do wish someday they will develop some magical bean you can take to take the aids away, but I fear that people are putting their hopes in a cure that may never come instead of learning how to live with this successfully.

On a side note, and this may be a good subject for a new thread, but a lot of these so called "cures" sound absolutely dreadful.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I really don't know how enthusiastic I would be opting for some stem cell transplant or gene therapy when I can live relatively comfortable on Complera or maybe some other longer acting medicine in the future. I don't know if I would take the cure. 

Imagine that, a cure comes out and we all decide to just stay on treatment instead.  That would be a kicker!
"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e0gcEC1TWE

Offline sensual1973

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2013, 04:29:38 PM »
When i saw the word Kenya i stopped reading.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 05:06:46 PM »
I think it was around 1988 I stopped  believing a cure would be around the corner and concentrated on how much damage I could do to my body having fun before Aids did the rest .

I heard about the 3 drug cocktail from a over served customer where I was bartending , he was crying tears of joy and trying to get behind the bar to hug me ... so I had security throw him out . A few days later my doctors confirmed there was indeed a promising 3 drug combo for me to take ... a few days after that I was on them and it was the first time of many that I shit my pants in public .

I'm not trying to Highjack this thread  , its that I feel a little protective of some of the new people here that just now finding their way living with this virus . I dont want them getting their hopes up or spending money on scams , getting hurt .

We had a very sweet intelligent member here that came onto the forum announcing plans to fly thousands of miles for treatments that she was promised would cure her and she was crushed and angry when we had to warn her not to go , shes not been back much since because it left her with hurt feelings .

This is a highjack and I do apologize to the OP , but I just had to say it because some people do get hurt when they read threads like this before they have had time to gain  the experience to be skeptical . 

Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2013, 05:27:29 PM »
When i saw the word Kenya i stopped reading.
Well that's sad.  The point of critical media literacy is to read a text, or watch a report, and judge its merits.  The article says nothing different than all the public relations releases about "cures" from the big players...   

Yes the point is always, show the research please.....   

A few weeks ago I said I would love it and would not be surprised if the "cure" came from some unexpected place - unexpected because its not in the big leagues of scientific research. 

You all know that there are REAL fucking universities in Kenya, in Africa, in most so called "developing" nations around the world.  Jeez! 

Sure there's a history of snake oil in many parts of the world, about HIV or any disease.  But we don't need to completely dismiss news, based on the nation it comes from...   A press release from a legitimate scientist, or a legit university, should be given some advance cred, so at least you read it and ask - where is the proof.  A press release from a legit source, IS NOT THE SAME as an online scam from a "Nigerian Prince", in the often quoted example.. 

« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 05:45:02 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline 2blessed

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2013, 05:40:52 PM »
A cure will occur within five years...

Offline Tadeys

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 05:49:59 PM »
Yes, I am new to all this, but I am very skeptical when it comes to an HIV cure. Thats why I used a question mark (?) at the end of the title sentence as opposed to an exclamation mark (!)  And in my reply, I even used SEEMS ( "the doctor SEEMS legit") in capital letters and not the third-person singular present tense of the English language verb "to be"... IS legit....:D    Yes, the "dr" SEEMS legit, meaning he SEEMS to exist. But I smell BS none-the-less.   :)




Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 05:53:38 PM »
I agree, yours is a good method.  Saying anything that comes out of Kenya must be a scam, is not.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 05:56:23 PM »
Im glad it was posted , it opens up the board to conversation and I never drew an inference that the OP agreed or disagreed with the information .   

Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 05:59:10 PM »
I quoted sensuel1973, not the OP.  ::)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 06:02:19 PM »
I quoted sensuel1973, not the OP.  ::)

How ironic , what I wrote wasn't all about you .  ;)

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 06:39:01 PM »

I really don't know how enthusiastic I would be opting for some stem cell transplant or gene therapy when I can live relatively comfortable on Complera or maybe some other longer acting medicine in the future. I don't know if I would take the cure. 


Good point.

Because i doubt, although Im hopeful, that the cure will be a one pill "take it and we are done" type of thing.

-W
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 07:26:19 PM »
Good point.

Because i doubt, although Im hopeful, that the cure will be a one pill "take it and we are done" type of thing.

-W

I read some of these articles that say they would need to do full body radiation and chemotherapy to wipe out your immune system then a gene therapy or stem cell replacement to effect a cure. umm no thank you.
"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e0gcEC1TWE

Offline JazJon

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 08:39:53 PM »
I wonder........
How does Methotrexate Dr Barasa used compare to Busulfan Calimmune is using for pre-conditioning trials?

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46455.msg587612#msg587612

Offline freewillie99

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2013, 09:43:24 PM »
I wonder........
How does Methotrexate Dr Barasa used compare to Busulfan Calimmune is using for pre-conditioning trials?

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46455.msg587612#msg587612

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT00000834

No results posted.  Strange.
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2013, 11:36:41 PM »
I read some of these articles that say they would need to do full body radiation and chemotherapy to wipe out your immune system then a gene therapy or stem cell replacement to effect a cure. umm no thank you.

Zackly.  People think that this miraculous "cure" (if it were to actually happen) will be some simple pop-a-pill or get-a-shot-in-yer-booty kinda thing.  So naive.   
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline leatherman

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 12:15:58 AM »
I read some of these articles that say they would need to do full body radiation and chemotherapy to wipe out your immune system then a gene therapy or stem cell replacement to effect a cure. umm no thank you.
so far that's the only way a "cure" has been affected. I personally refrain from calling these procedures "cures" as they are actually immune system destruction and replacement procedures. And of course, there are all those messy stats of how often the radiation and chemo cause death. ;) Not to mention years of severe after effects. (the story of Timothy Brown shows that afterwards there are lots of problems/issues just to be able to say that you are HIV-free) If you were dying of lukemia or something it might be worth a last ditch effort (the point the "cured" people have been at so far); but if you're fairly healthy, these procedures have a huge risk factor of death.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline geobee

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2013, 12:20:04 AM »
Clinical trial: "A Phase I Study of Methotrexate for HIV Infection"

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00000834

Not many details on the trial, just interesting that it's been tried in a Phase I trial.


Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2013, 10:10:22 AM »
I think we all know HIV can be cured even without my method, at least from the two known cases and the use of post-exposure treatment. Let me be clear, Methotrexate is NOT cure for HIV and no one should attempt to take it for that purpose. I only used it to clear bone marrow reserve of the virus thereby remove a relentless source of infection. But then there are many other reserves in the body that need to be cleared for a total cure otherwise these would re-infect the bone marrow. That is why I talk about other agents that are used in this methodology.
For the doubting Thomases, this is real

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2013, 11:41:06 AM »
I think we all know HIV can be cured even without my method, at least from the two known cases and the use of post-exposure treatment. Let me be clear, Methotrexate is NOT cure for HIV and no one should attempt to take it for that purpose. I only used it to clear bone marrow reserve of the virus thereby remove a relentless source of infection. But then there are many other reserves in the body that need to be cleared for a total cure otherwise these would re-infect the bone marrow. That is why I talk about other agents that are used in this methodology.
For the doubting Thomases, this is real

Welcome to forum Barasa , It may help if you introduce yourself so new readers can put your thoughts into context . 

What are the other agents you are talking about ?

Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2013, 01:36:51 PM »
I am Dr Simon Barasa Situma the originator of the HIV cure. I started by publishing the theory of viral sequestration as I had unravel led hoping more experts would build on it to rout the virus. You can read it at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22267945 Later I developed the methodology myself.

Offline geobee

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2013, 02:35:32 PM »
Welcome to the forums, Dr. Barasa Situma,

I have two questions --

1. What are the other agents?
2. Has your work been reviewed in any scientific journals? Are there other doctors that can validate your work?

Thank you!

Offline Newguy

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2013, 10:10:53 PM »
Welcome to the forums, Dr. Barasa Situma,

I have two questions --

1. What are the other agents?
2. Has your work been reviewed in any scientific journals? Are there other doctors that can validate your work?

Thank you!

Did you click on the link he provided? That looks like published peer reviewed work to me. And it has been impressively viewed over 6000 times.

Be well

Offline Dr.Strangelove

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 07:44:51 AM »
I clicked on that link. It doesn't matter how many people have clicked on it, the question is how often has this work been cited?

That article is not a research paper. It's more of a review-style opinion piece. Dr. Barasa's view on how to tackle HIV. Read the Acknowledgement section...

I have a severe case of cure fatigue.
Me too!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 06:14:32 PM »
Sigh.

That's all I have on the topic.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Welcome Thread

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 06:42:24 PM »
A cure will occur within five years...

They said three years back in 1987. AIDS is a lot of fun.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 07:02:41 PM »
How many threads are going on this now.

I notice that this moment might be another of those times where two seemingly contradictory ways of thinking should be entertained simultaneously.

Its important to consider the wisdom of experienced people in their 40s 50s 60s, and their skeptical approach to each year's cycle of "The Cure is on Hand."

Time passes and passes and passes and things keep improving and improving and improving for HIV+ folks. And also no cure no cure no cure.  But we oldies all know what the challenge was, and all respect the exceptional progess made to meet a very difficult challenge for science.

As an old person I try to be careful to, on the one hand, pass on the war stories and the years of experience, but on the other refrain from pissing on the hope that young people have.  (Not accusing anyone here, but it does happen.)  Its a fine line...   

Imagine being in your early 20's and getting HIV now.  Young people grew up in a different reality, HIV hasn't been the pervasive inevitable killer for quite some time.  Easy to imagine a cure, if the thing is already so well managed.

And anyway, young people are naturally filled with hope, optimism, and ambition.  So remember to value, respect, take some energy from that way of thinking.  Its important to be optimistic and young people do it so well and easily. 

But yeah, a soupcon of sober realism and historical perspective doesn't have to clip the hope.
 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 07:07:56 PM »
How many threads are going on this now.

I notice that this moment might be another of those times where two seemingly contradictory ways of thinking should be entertained simultaneously.

Its important to consider the wisdom of experienced people in their 40s 50s 60s, and their skeptical approach to each year's cycle of "The Cure is on Hand."

Time passes and passes and passes and things keep improving and improving and improving for HIV+ folks. And also no cure no cure no cure.  But we oldies all know what the challenge was, and all respect the exceptional progess made to meet a very difficult challenge for science.

As an old person I try to be careful to, on the one hand, pass on the war stories and the years of experience, but on the other refrain from pissing on the hope that young people have.  (Not accusing anyone here, but it does happen.)  Its a fine line...   

Imagine being in your early 20's and getting HIV now.  Young people grew up in a different reality, HIV hasn't been the pervasive inevitable killer for quite some time.  Easy to imagine a cure, if the thing is already so well managed.

And anyway, young people are naturally filled with hope, optimism, and ambition.  So remember to value, respect, take some energy from that way of thinking.  Its important to be optimistic and young people do it so well and easily. 

But yeah, a soupcon of sober realism and historical perspective doesn't have to clip the hope.
 

well said...
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 07:17:09 PM »
What aggravates me is not youthful optimism and hope. It's the lack of critical thinking.

Confusing page view for peer review?

You guys realize that a phase three trial of a promising HIV vaccine (a good friend was enrolled) was summarily halted last week because it simply did not work. At all. That was a phase THREE trial - over a decade in the making, and the ONLY vaccine trial in the works.

Critical thinking =/= pessimism.

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Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 07:34:17 PM »
What aggravates me is not youthful optimism and hope. It's the lack of critical thinking.

Confusing page view for peer review?

You guys realize that a phase three trial of a promising HIV vaccine (a good friend was enrolled) was summarily halted last week because it simply did not work. At all. That was a phase THREE trial - over a decade in the making, and the ONLY vaccine trial in the works.

Critical thinking =/= pessimism.

Believe me, I know all about the critical thinking challenge because I'm a college teacher.  Yes I have info and methods and material to develop critical thinking.  And there are days when I get discouraged by the lack of skill, the lack of interest, and even occasionally just the lazy refusal, even though the skill is there.

Other days, though, I feel the young ones are the brilliant minds around me, and my colleagues a bunch of rigid thinking stiff, one foot in the grave fogies. Fatalistic, cynical, tiring, energy drains...

Anyway, I'm glad some businesspeople, researchers, and young people are preoccupied with the cure, and they are not pessimistic.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 07:48:17 PM »
What pisses me off is not the casual terminology of stating a cure is at hand it by overly optimistic newbies but by doctors and researchers who should know better.

Twice now in a matter of a couple weeks doctors/researchers have thrown around the cure word irresponsibly.  I don't care how confident you are in our research until your theory has been thoroughly tested and REPRODUCED by others you have no business telling the press you are on the brink of a cure. 

Both the researchers in Denmark and this quack in Kenya (yes I said it) should be ashamed of themselves and called out by the research community for how they have handled their press releases.
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Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2013, 01:10:40 AM »
"What pisses me off is not the casual terminology of stating a cure is at hand it by overly optimistic newbies but by doctors and researchers who should know better.

Twice now in a matter of a couple weeks doctors/researchers have thrown around the cure word irresponsibly.  I don't care how confident you are in our research until your theory has been thoroughly tested and REPRODUCED by others you have no business telling the press you are on the brink of a cure. 

Both the researchers in Denmark and this quack in Kenya (yes I said it) should be ashamed of themselves and called out by the research community for how they have handled their press releases."

Dont be so hopeless my dear, a cure is  a cure and yes, it is reproducible. I hope to work with a Doc in UK to cure a patient there in less than a month (on skype). When this happens and he shouts then  you will believe. It is nothing out of the ordinary, just logical. More like you could have a toolbox and you cant do a thing on the motor if you don't have the logic. I should have wanted to say cure earlier but it was not easy. Our press is skeptical and eventually to touch it they had to confirm.

Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2013, 02:10:03 AM »
Well its certainly true, member Barasa, that nobody is content with your vague description of what drugs and "other agents" you used.  Since you took the time to join this forum, why don't you explain to us

1) when your research will be published detailing what was used, how it worked, how the eradication has been verified. 

2) if you've already had successful eradication - explain why you or your team can't publish the result for the world to see.  (Is it those patent considerations?  Is it something about the who gets to publish and who doesn't, or the delay it takes to get into a journal?   When exactly did you get these eradication results - very recently?)

In other words, prove it please. Just spell it out.

And good luck with the effort to reproduce it in the UK.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 02:13:02 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2013, 02:43:29 AM »
in the process. Nothing works so fast. We call this preliminary findings which have to be presented then follows proper protocol. It is not even with institutions yet but will move.

Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2013, 06:57:23 AM »
IMO thats an inadequate response to some specific questions.  Not that you owe me a response, of course. IMO - to be taken seriously by thoese institutions whom you want to be, (UK scientists? research journals? pharma?) you'll need to be much more forth-comng and articulate than you have bothered to be here, for example.  Also, if I were you, I would take down that bizarre youtube video with the robot voice. Not helping your image and project, AT ALL! 

I'm as skeptical as others about this whole scenario you are representing.  Maybe a lot is being lost in translation...  So I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say good luck on your project..
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2013, 08:03:44 AM »

You guys realize that a phase three trial of a promising HIV vaccine (a good friend was enrolled) was summarily halted last week because it simply did not work. At all. That was a phase THREE trial - over a decade in the making, and the ONLY vaccine trial in the works.

Critical thinking =/= pessimism.


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Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2013, 11:59:42 AM »
Meanwhile, elsewhere in Kenya, a faith-healer/prophet (2 for 1?) played a role in the last Kenyan presidential election.   

This saw the election of the richest man in Kenya, Uhuru Kenyatta (Amherst educated), and who is the son of the Kenya’s “founding father” and former President Jomo Kenyatta.  Also maybe someone who did crimes against humanity by this dirty political games over the years.

Anyway this Prophet is named Prophet Dr. David Owuor.  (I don't know much but what I do know is…) Prophet Dr. is (supposedly) the graduate of prestigious medical schools in Israel and postdoc positions at two U.S. medical/research centres, in molecular genetics and DRUG DEVELOPMENT. 

Anyway he is now a prophet (not sure of what church) and faith-healer who has healed a few dozen (?) HIV+ patients, through faith.

He “acknowledges there is no cure for AIDS” (a credential drug researcher!!!), he can't cure aids, but he has seen people cured by God. (I guess he is a witness and some kind of accelerator of miracles?)

And the point of all that is, if I read the couple weird links I followed, correctly...
The government sent the “state health official” to inspect these “cures” -- so, presumably some sort of credentialed expert – and he reported that the cures are REAL.  (This is all 2013 dears.)

One hand washes the other, the Prophet has assured his followers, that the New President – Uhuru Kenyatta – is “anointed by GOD”.

I’m not making this up.  I didn’t link to the sites because the air is a bit electric in this forum on these topics, and I don’t want to link to anything people would say is denialist. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:19:25 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2013, 12:02:08 PM »
What aggravates me is not youthful optimism and hope. It's the lack of critical thinking.

Confusing page view for peer review?

You guys realize that a phase three trial of a promising HIV vaccine (a good friend was enrolled) was summarily halted last week because it simply did not work. At all. That was a phase THREE trial - over a decade in the making, and the ONLY vaccine trial in the works.

Critical thinking =/= pessimism.



There has to be some room between the journalistic sensationalism and no hope (guised as lack of critical thinking based on one poster's mistake on understanding peer review).  The facts are that there is $2.5 billion/year spent on drug development and research; and the scientific tools, methods, and basic understanding of today is light years ahead of where we were ten years ago (when HVTN 505 was initiated).

Also, to imply that HVTN 505 is "the ONLY vaccine trial in the works" just isn't true.    TAG's 2012 Pipeline report list approximately 25 phase I or II vaccine trials in the works, here is the link:

http://www.pipelinereport.org/browse/therapeutic-vaccines

I am a critical thinker, and based on the facts, I believe (and yes hope) that we will see some significant advancements in the next five years.

What really strikes me is how emotional the topic of a cure is -- which I understand logically (although respectfully acknowledge I can't have the same emotional understanding as those that have the history). Just as there has to be some room between "a cure within months" and "don't get your hopes up", there has to be some understanding and compassion for those that have been through (lived and died) the history and those that are new to this community and are going through this process at a different time in a different way.

I liked Mecch's statement that we need to have "two seemingly contradictory ways of thinking should be entertained simultaneously."

Best,
JM



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08/06/12 CD4 816/38%   VL 49,300
08/20/12 Started Complera
11/06/12 CD4   819/41% VL 38
02/11/13 CD4   935/41% VL UD
06/06/13 CD4   816/41% VL UD
10/28/13 CD4 1131/45%  VL 25
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Offline mecch

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2013, 12:15:38 PM »
I watched the Trend The Prophet Dr David Owuor interview on youtube, especially the pertinent HIV Cure material starting at 5 mins.  Chilled me the bone.

It seems he's nationally important???? 

(Also every site includes slightly different details as to his exact credentials and diplomas from Israel and the US.)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dr.Strangelove

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2013, 03:04:44 PM »
What aggravates me is not youthful optimism and hope. It's the lack of critical thinking.

Critical thinking =/= pessimism.

What pisses me off is not the casual terminology of stating a cure is at hand it by overly optimistic newbies but by doctors and researchers who should know better.

Both the researchers in Denmark and this quack in Kenya should be ashamed of themselves and called out by the research community for how they have handled their press releases.

Completely agree with both statements.

I've been following the research forums here for almost 2 years now and often it makes me feel like 'Groundhog Day'. The same thing over and over again.

Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2013, 04:07:32 AM »
How are you since last time. I am pleased to inform that my paper has been published at http://www.sciencepublishinggroup.com/journal/paperinfo.aspx?journalid=115&doi=10.11648/j.iji.20130102.11 I intent to publish the full methodology of the treatment soon so doctors and researchers all over the world can replicate it and improve it so that HIV is eliminated from the globe. I am not withholding or selling the methodology.


Offline Ann

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2013, 06:36:39 AM »
How are you since last time. I am pleased to inform that my paper has been published at http://www.sciencepublishinggroup.com/journal/paperinfo.aspx?journalid=115&doi=10.11648/j.iji.20130102.11 I intent to publish the full methodology of the treatment soon so doctors and researchers all over the world can replicate it and improve it so that HIV is eliminated from the globe. I am not withholding or selling the methodology.



Why aren't you publishing in a peer-review journal? If you want your research to be taken seriously, that's what you need to do. Anyone can publish on the website you did. Anyone.
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Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2013, 11:57:44 AM »
Check properly. That is an online version of a peer reviewed journal and the article is on page 14-23 International Journal of Immunology with a proper DOI

Offline georgep77

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2013, 12:56:33 PM »
Dr. Barasa when are you expecting to publish the full methodology?
If you're not withholding or thinking about selling, what are you waiting for?

The medicine Nobel Prize is waiting if your findings are 100% effective.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 12:59:19 PM by georgep77 »
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Offline Dr.Strangelove

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2013, 04:33:20 PM »
Why aren't you publishing in a peer-review journal?

Ann, let me add the word reputable


When you google "science publishing group" this is the first hit (after their website):
"Science Publishing Group is another scam Open Access journal publisher or academic vanity press. "

Offline georgep77

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2013, 04:49:28 PM »
Check properly. That is an online version of a peer reviewed journal and the article is on page 14-23 International Journal of Immunology with a proper DOI

Science Publishing Group is notable for two things: spam and possible trademark abuse.

This publisher is currently unapologetically engaged in a massive spam campaign. They are spamming researchers all over the world soliciting manuscripts and editorial board applications. They may be harvesting email addresses themselves or they may be purchasing lists from companies that specialize in selling email addresses.

More info in this link:
http://scholarlyoa.com/2012/12/05/three-new-questionable-open-access-publishers/
Come on Sangamo,  Geovax,  Bionor immuno, ...Make us happy !!!
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Offline barasa

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Re: Two reported cured of HIV in Kenya?
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2013, 04:58:54 AM »
Thanks for that information, I have checked it out. I will pursue the issue and see what to do.However this does not change my findings and results, only a transient headache

 


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