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Author Topic: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out  (Read 4404 times)

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Offline WowImDumb

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Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« on: April 30, 2013, 12:48:49 PM »
Hi,
I screwed up.  I was incredibly drunk in San Francisco and agreed to let a street walker perform oral for a very small price.  She quickly offered to have sex once we got to the laundry room (I know right?) and I was like well okay, but with a condom!  And we used one but we were constantly interrupted so I would leave then return and put a new one on.  At one point I pulled out and noticed no condom on me.  I have NO idea why - a break, or did it slip off - and we quickly put another one on.  The total exposure lasted less than a minute for sure but I cannot say how long as I was very drunk.  She attempted to switch from doggystyle to another position and that's when I realized it was a HE!  So i freaked and left. 
After laying around super hungover the following day I came to my senses and went to the ER and began Truvada at approx. 38 hours post exposure.  I'm also uncircumcized, and a girl I'd slept with a few weeks ago just tested positive for HSV-2.  I've had no symptoms but I'm going to get tested really soon.

How worried should I be?

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 01:04:20 PM »
Hi Wow . We don't do predictions about how risky or assign percentages of risk to sex acts but I can say that since you were the insertive partner for only a brief moment is a good thing in your favor . Its rare to have a partner test positive because of a condom break like you described . It was low risk but that doesn't equal no risk . 

Now that you are on PEP you will need to test 6 weeks post PEP and again at 3 months to confirm the results . You should expect the test HIV negative .

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 10:04:55 PM »
Hi Jeff..
Thanks for you answer.
Ive read all over this forum that you've never seen an instance of an insertive partner get the disease from a condom break.

But my case is a little more than that:
1) Insertive Anal
2) Transsexual
3) Street Walker
4) Hispanic (no racist, just know some groups have higher prevalence of HIV)
5) Possible HSV-2 (never any symptoms/outbreaks, and certainly not that night)

Have you heard of similar or riskier events and what have generally been the results there?

Thanks again.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2013, 10:10:39 PM »
No , your case isn't any more special or less so than any other . We always assume the partner in question or possible exposure was with a HIV positive person .

A risk for HIV is just that , a risk and the only way to know your status is to test at the appropriate time .

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2013, 10:19:54 PM »
Thanks again for your response.

Lastly, (might as well use my last free post before I say something stupid later when I'm high stress again)

I ventured into the HIV Positive forum and saw that surprisingly there are lots of posts almost everyday.  And I thought there are only so many new cases (to internet accessible people) a year, and that they cant ALL possibly go here to chat about it. So that got be feeling uneasy. Can you comment as to why there are this many new cases?

Also, can you tell me more about testing while on PEP:
1) 4-weeks/PEP completion date - is it indicative at all?
2)2 weeks post-PEP
3)4 weeks post-PEP
these last two: I know you said 6 weeks and 3 months to be sure and I get that, but if I test neg at any of the above 3 times then will that give me any info whatsoever, or will it be a complete waste of money..  In your experience?

Thanks Jeff.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2013, 10:48:40 PM »
You will need to test 6 weeks after you stop taking PEP and again at 3 months to confirm your results . Pep extends the testing window , had you not been on PEP you could have tested 6 weeks post exposure and again at 3 months . It does no good to test before this time frame , you may get inaccurate results .   

If you had an exposure PEP is very effective if taken in the first 72 hours of exposure . I would expect a negative result in your case with or without PEP . 

As far as new cases of HIV ,  here is some sobering info  ... "HIV is a critical public health problem, and there are still 50,000 new infections per year," said Dr. Doug Owens, a task force member and professor of medicine at Stanford University. "There's very good evidence that treatment is effective when given earlier, at a time when people are often asymptomatic. So the only way they would know that they had HIV, or that they needed treatment, is to be screened."

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-sci-hiv-screening-20130430,0,5454357.story

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 10:34:58 PM »
Ok so I ended up buying the subscription.
Since my initial exposure 2 weeks ago,,

I'm on day 15 of PEP (Truvada alone),
Not many side effects although I did DISCOVER oral thrush today.  Not saying it started today but I definitely went looking and found it.  Not severe but clearly some flakey fluffy white shit at the back of my tongue.  I first flipped out but then figured it could be because ive been nervous and in an effort to save costs due to this 1200 dollar pep Ive been eating garbage..  Lots of chips - 3 cans of pringles a week plus other chips, lots of diet soda, like 2 bottles a day, and probably smoking close to 2 packs of cigs a day.  Not the healthiest.. and I forgot to  brush a few days as well.  Also lots of cereal with sugar everyday so these things could have contributed.  I read that its uncommon to have ars symptoms on pepe and that thrush isnt really seen alone in ars.  So im a little more relaxed now but could you confirm?

I gave blood/urine for c/g and hsv1/2 friday and will know tomorrow if I have either.  The mental strategy is that assuming the ladyboy had c/g, then if I didnt get it, it means its less likely I was sufficiently exposed to his fluids.  and not having hsv2 means Im not at as high of risk as I wouldve been had I had it..  sound reasonable.

my plan is to take an oraquick friday 3 weeks post EXPOSURE for mental comfort, then I have a DUO scheduled for 28 days post exposure..

If that DUO is negative, is that a good indication based on your EXPERIENCE and not clinical standards, ie, have you seen a 4 weeks result (on PEP) change neg to pos later?  Then I'm doing another DUO at 2 weeks post pep and similarly 4 and 6.  Ive read and heard from doctors that 2 weeks post pep is pretty damn reliable.

Basically I'm here for some comfort.  Ive made it two weeks, now if I can just hold on to some sanity until 4 weeks, I can handle the rest.  Ann? Andy?  Can you guys provide me with some comfort so I feel like I am not alone?

Thanks for everything.

As for the thrush, I'm chewing garlic, and drinking  1-4 mix of cider vinegar-water..  Hopefully it goes away in a few days so I can attribute it to poor diet, oral hygiene.  Also, I haven't had ANY other symptoms so far. Just fatigue from truvada.  I've even been able to run my usual 5 mi 2-3 times a week since starting.

Gulp.  Hope to hear from you soon.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 10:59:53 PM »
It will accomplish nothing to test before 6 weeks post pep except waste your money .
If you had thrush you would be in pretty bad pain , even a tiny spot can be painful enough to seek medical treatment , it doesn't sound like thrush , not at all .

Your symptoms are not specific to HIV so there isn't really a point in discussing them , that why we do not discuss symptoms .

Try to find things to do to make the time go by quicker and do not waste your money or resources on a test before the appropriate time . 

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 11:55:01 PM »
Thanks Jeff-

I know the facts.  I'm seeking company/support/comfort/ something since this is my only outlet.

Perhaps Ann or Andy could shed a few words on my case simply for my mental well being.  Not asking for much, just hoping for the same positive and friendly types of responses I've read that theyve made to other troubled fools :)
Thank you.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 01:58:33 AM »
I dunno. Seems like moderator Jeff has this all wrapped up. Ann and myself were pretty instrumental in updating/rewriting the LESSONS on prevention and transmission. And from where I stand, I think you might have gone too far in getting PEP.

In the ten plus years I have been giving risk assessment on this forum, I have yet to see an insertive partner test positive over a condom break. That's with or wthout PEP. I can say with some assurance that you are unlikely to break that record.

It is certainly not impossible to get HIV from being a top. But it is unlikely. It's cetainly happened here before, along with straight males who contract HIV through vaginal sex. But it is not the norm. And I do not expect your circumstance to differ, especially soince you are taking powerful medications through PEP.

As I see it, your circumstance was an extremely low risk. Adding PEP to that made it basically a nil risk.

If I didn't think you would be genuinely OK, I would have couched that in "even if" sentences. I did not.

I have every assurance that you will come out of this HIV negative.

Also, please reread what moderator Jeff wrote about thrush. You can't diagnose that yourself. Thrush hurts. Hurts enough that you wouldn't be posting about it as though it were an oddity.

Also, thrush has as much to do with HIV infection as dandruff. Not much.

PLEASE do not take an HIV test of any sort until after you finish PEP. What a waste! PEP is designed to reduce/irradicate viral load. Its most the of SAME drugs used to treat HIV. You wont get any meaningful results until 6 weeks past PEP (which I previously said you likely didn't need to take in the first place) and until then, like Jeff suggested, keep busy.

Its quite likely that this will turn out to be a tempest in a teapot. But hang on and wait. THAT is your only option.

I sincerely wish you the best, and think this will all turn out fine.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 03:06:07 PM »
Youre the best.  Thanks.

I'll still get the 4 weeks test per my doctor's orders but I'm glad you think I'll be alright.

Just cant help but think that person was poz since when I went back and found him/her, they were leaving their apt (which was niceish) and refused to take an hiv test (I brought an oral kit with me) even after I offered to pay the same 20 bucks it costs for me to get into this mess in the first place!  Although he/she sais "Im Clean"  "I dont have time for this" "Dont bother me anymore" and "We used condoms, remember?"  She was in a hurry tho before she saw me.

So I dont know what to think.. coulvde gone either way.

Thanks again, thats exactly what I was looking for.  Jeff thanks to you as well, I just needed some babying from someone..

Thanks guys.

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 03:11:16 PM »
PS.

I didnt demand PEP, I went to the ER to see if I needed it and the doc there called the US (UCSF I believe) HIV specialist hotline which recommended I take the 2 drug (Truvada) course.  I wasn't gonna argue with that. 

I'll try to stay off the net for a the next few days. 

Thanks again

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 03:40:30 PM »
PS.

I didnt demand PEP, I went to the ER to see if I needed it and the doc there called the US (UCSF I believe) HIV specialist hotline which recommended I take the 2 drug (Truvada) course.  I wasn't gonna argue with that. 

I'll try to stay off the net for a the next few days. 

Thanks again

THAT is a capital idea.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 12:40:58 AM »
negative for chlamydia + ghonerrea 2 weeks after exposure!  doesnt say much about hiv but definitely a good thing!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 12:45:11 AM »
negative for chlamydia + ghonerrea 2 weeks after exposure!  doesnt say much about hiv but definitely a good thing!

Every STD you don't have is a good thing :)

I seriously think you are going to be fine.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Ann

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 05:11:57 PM »

Just cant help but think that person was poz since when I went back and found him/her, they were leaving their apt (which was niceish) and refused to take an hiv test (I brought an oral kit with me) even after I offered to pay the same 20 bucks it costs for me to get into this mess in the first place!  Although he/she sais "Im Clean"  "I dont have time for this" "Dont bother me anymore" and "We used condoms, remember?"  She was in a hurry tho before she saw me.


I've been debating whether or not to respond to this portion of your posts and I've decided I will.

Thing is, if someone accosted me on my doorstep with a demand to take an in-home hiv test (even before I was actually poz), I would be ringing the police. It's harassment. It's rude. It's beyond the pale. I'm surprised she was as polite a she was. You had absolutely no right to do that to her.

And that's another thing. A transgendered M-F human being is referred to as SHE, not he/she.

Another thing in your post that is offensive is your assumption that because she was offended by your demand for her to drop everything and allow you to test her for hiv, that she must be hiv positive. It belies your attitude that poz people are criminals at heart. You really have a knack for being offensive, don't you.

At the end of the day, the only test that is going to reliably inform you of your own hiv status is the test you yourself take at the appropriate time.

Like the guys, I've yet to see the insertive partner end up hiv positive as the insertive partner following a condom break or slip. I do not expect you to be the first.

So do us a favour and drop the judgemental attitude and the drama. This is a storm in a teacup, as Jonathan is fond of saying.

You never needed PEP over this and I fully expect you to ultimately test hiv negative over this situation.

Ann

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 10:49:58 PM »
Hi Ann,

I'm really sorry I came off as rude.  I definitely did not want to be.
I actually reacted the same way in thinking that she was annoyed and told me off in a "get out of my face" manner.  It actually made me think she was negative.  I only did that because PEP took a toll on my finances and I wanted to make sure I needed it.  Only reason I ran into her at her home was because I was very drunk the weekend it happened and the following weekend I wanted to make sure the place was the right place and randomly ran into her in the hallway, at which point I became nervous and probably slightly aggressive.  I tried to be polite even saying, "Ma'am, will you please take this, it'll be fast and I'll pay you for your time."  I didnt mean to be rude and Im sorry again.  As for the correct way to address these individuals, I simply didnt know and I will be using SHE from now on.

This likely is a storm in a tiny little cup but I'm working on it. I've learned a lot. I can you see that you guys, the moderators are so much more sympathetic than people like my dad who called me a an overeactive dumbass.  lol. So as far as I see it, all the poz people I've ever interacted with are genuinely concerned with calming the fears of morons like myself, and are good, caring people.  Not criminals at heart at all!

Sorry again. 

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2013, 07:14:17 PM »
Jonathan:

I read a post of yours on another thread -
you said "testing 30 days after completion of pep was all you needed"
but I'm hearing six weeks?

Is 30 days actually enough? Generally?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2013, 08:25:42 PM »
Jonathan:

I read a post of yours on another thread -
you said "testing 30 days after completion of pep was all you needed"
but I'm hearing six weeks?

Is 30 days actually enough? Generally?

You either misread me ot I misspoke.

PEP is 30 days. At the point when your PEP ends, the clock to testing begins.

Your first test should be at six weeks past completion of PEP.

Your confirmation test wil be at theee months past PEP.

Still don't think this will result in HIV infection. You are unlikely to break a record that's been going for ten years on this forum.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2013, 07:12:42 PM »
negative rapid blood test 4 weeks post-exposure.
fairly meaningless but i need something to keep me going

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2013, 10:13:49 PM »
negative rapid blood test 4 weeks post-exposure.
fairly meaningless but i need something to keep me going

Perhaps. But you will, I suspect, find that this whole affair is a tempest in a teapot. HIV is notoriously hard to transmit from female to male. Your chances of testing positive over this incident is, at best, remote.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2013, 12:14:48 AM »
Just wanna clarify it was insertive anal with a m2f so technically a man and a streetwalker in San Fran where prevalence in msm is 30-40%.. But I am starting to feel better though not great or anywhere near my normal self at all yet

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 12:21:40 AM »
Just wanna clarify it was insertive anal with a m2f so technically a man and a streetwalker in San Fran where prevalence in msm is 30-40%.. But I am starting to feel better though not great or anywhere near my normal self at all yet

Our risk assessment assumes that your partner is positive with a viral load in the millions. It always is.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 07:55:04 PM »
This msg is for all of you who've responded:Jonathan, Anne, and Jeff.

I get paranoid about once every two days.  Paranoid to the point that I lose all of my energy, and just want fall into my bed and try to fall asleep. Then whether or not that works I go out and have a cigarette.  Then repeat. 

But, every time I come back and re-read this thread, I get a rush of life again, as if things will actually be ok.

So I want to thank all of you so much for being here. It wouldve been infinitely harder to deal with this otherwise.

I just finished PEP Friday and I'm now waiting for the appropriate time to test.
No doubt I'll be back here reading, re-reading, this over and over again as many times as I need to and I'm just so glad its here, that you guys are here.

Once I test negative (I so hope I do), I gotta donate something to some hiv foundation.  If you guys know a good one lemme know.

Trying to stay strong.

Thanks again for everything.

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 03:45:13 PM »
Hi again. I just tested negative at 26 days after pep/ 8 weeks post exposure.  Previously, I took truvada for 28 days, starting 38 hrs post exposure.  I'm now waiting impatiently for another 2 weeks to pass so I can take a 6 week post pep test.  Question for all of you:  have you seen a 6 week post pep test result change after more time, in your experience taking care of us worried wells and the like on this forum/ elsewhere?


Thank you.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 04:32:31 PM »
Assuming you test negative at 8 weeks post Pep, which is what I am expecting, I would expect you to continue to test negative at 3 months for a conclusive result.
Andy Velez

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 05:30:14 PM »
So now it's 8 weeks instead of 6?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 08:35:26 PM »
So now it's 8 weeks instead of 6?

It's six. But the gold standard remains three months after PEP.

Also, your risk ws so low I would not even have thouight to recommend PEP in the first place. Please don't quibble over a week here and there.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2013, 02:07:31 AM »
Can I then infer that the answer to my question 2 posts ago is "to date, no" ..?

Cause that'd be great news :)

These last 2 months have sucked.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2013, 02:18:50 AM »
Can I then infer that the answer to my question 2 posts ago is "to date, no" ..?

Cause that'd be great news :)

These last 2 months have sucked.

I have answered risk asessment questions on this forum for over ten years. I have done HIV prevention work for over twenty.

So:

To this date, zero.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2013, 02:24:31 AM »
Jon you are THE best.

Offline WowImDumb

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2013, 10:41:29 PM »
Update:

Neg test @ 12 weeks post-exposure, and neg hep c.  Neg syphilis at 8 weeks.. hoping thats good enough  - no symptoms.

Every documented pep failure i've read of has been detected by 12 weeks after exposure..  its only that damn monkey study where A monkey was found positive at 16 weeks..  And I'm not a monkey! Besides, the sample is so small its very possible there was an error in testing procedure earlier that wasn't detected or reported.. So i think I'm finally in the clear and thank god.  This has been an expensive ride. 

Lessons:
1. Don't drink more than you should
2. Dont trust any condoms other than trojan
3. Sometimes that nice lady you meet turns out to be man!  A complete wtf moment but lesson learned.

Jon, thanks so much for your support throughout.  I needed someone to talk to me on my level without patronizing like most are inclined to do when the risk is quote, low.

All of you are awesome and thanks for this great service.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Broken/ Lost condom during inserive with TSSW - freaking out
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2013, 11:15:55 PM »
I'm glad you received your negative result!

It wasn't actually a shock, you know, but it's good to know your status.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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