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Author Topic: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow  (Read 1447 times)

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Offline friskyguy

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  • Posts: 109
WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« on: April 18, 2013, 12:12:18 AM »
So now its over to the sensible citizens of the good ol USA to claim back their country (any left?) and let themselves and their children live without fear of the high chance of being blown away indiscriminately one day!

Last time I checked it was in your rights to protest! Where are signs of the people power getting onto the streets demanding from their leaders to do the clearly sensible thing? Help your president! The silence is utterly deafining and F***ing disturbing.

The sensible world is once shaking their heads in utter disbelief and waiting..........oh except for those psycho cases in Afghanistan and co.

Will continue to watch the chess board unfold and/or wait for the next tragedy to unfold.............what an absolute joke!!!!!!!!!!

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) ó Gun-control legislation suffered a harsh blow in the Senate on Wednesday as a bipartisan amendment that would have expanded background checks failed to muster enough votes for passage.

The amendment, offered by Republican Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia, got 54 votes, short of the 60 required. Forty-six senators voted against it.

The amendment would have required background checks at gun shows and for sales of guns online. The senators said it would have prevented convicted criminals and the mentally ill from buying guns, and would not have create a national registry of gun owners.
Sero converted Sept '10 / Confirmed + Dec '10
Jan '11, VL 9,500 / CD4 482 (32%)
Feb '11, VL 5,800 / CD4 680 (37%)
start Atripla
Mch '11, VL UD / CD4 700 (42%)
Jun  '11, VL UD / CD4 750 (43%)
swap to Kivexa and Efav. due to osteopenia diag. (DEXA) / kidney issues ( decline in eGFR to 77 )
start supplements - Vit D3 / Omega 3 / multivitamin / mini aspirin
Dec '11,  VL UD <20 /  CD4 670 (49%)  / CD4:CD8 = 1.4
all labs now within normal ranges
Mch '12,  VL UD / CD4 600 (51%)
Sep '12,  VL UD / CD4 810 (51%)
Mch '13   VL UD / CD4 965 (56%)
Sep '13   VL UD / CD4 (not taken)
Dec '13   VL UD / CD4 901 (35%) / CD4:CD8 = 1.1  /  eGFR > 100

Offline tednlou2

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 01:30:23 AM »
When Dems were in the minority, I was glad they changed the rules to require 60 votes.  But, the Senate has become a swimming pool, instead of the saucer to cool things a little like Thomas Jefferson said.  I do have that right?  Jefferson said the Senate was the saucer? 

What do you all think?  Are you glad it takes 60 votes now, especially when your party is not in control?  Or, should we go back to a simple majority vote?  I was glad the president showed so much emotion, and said the opponents and NRA lied about the bill, and should be ashamed. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 01:05:46 PM »
For people living outside of the US that want to know why gun control is impossible in the US: 63% of the Population, and Still Losing

After last afternoon's pivotal vote on Manchin-Toomey, a reader emailed to say he'd looked "at how the vote broke down if you factor in the size of the Senatorsí respective constituencies." Each senator represents half a state, obviously, so he broke those populations in half.* The result: Around 198.4 million people were represented by senators who backed Manchin-Toomey. Around 114.9 million were represented by senators that opposed it. Those backing the amendment represented around 63 percent of the population.
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Online buginme2

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 01:20:35 PM »
How can you ignore 90% of what the people want?

Extremeism


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 03:33:46 PM »
How can you ignore 90% of what the people want?

Extremeism



By having the most un-democratic legislative body in the industrialized world.

One senator in Wyoming represents 288,206 people while in California he/she represents 19,020,715
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 03:39:34 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 03:42:53 PM »
This sums it up pretty good.  I do think we should look at how senators are allocated.  I know folks like Mitch would throw a fit.



Offline bocker3

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 04:08:11 PM »
i don't believe that the Senate was designed to be representing the "people" so much as representing the "states".  The House is/was supposed to be equal in people representation (as much as possible).  The Senate was set up so that states with large populations (like Virginia, back in the day) wouldn't have more power than, say, Rhodel Island.
Of course, I agree that this SHOULD have passed because, supposedly, 90% of the voters wanted it.  You would think that would be enough to convince Congress - but, alas.........

Mike
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Offline Ann

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 04:11:02 PM »

Of course, I agree that this SHOULD have passed because, supposedly, 90% of the voters wanted it.  You would think that would be enough to convince Congress - but, alas.........


That's because 90% of the voters don't get kickbacks and assorted perks from the powerful pro-gun lobby like those in congress do.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 06:00:56 PM »

ps: Mike, my first post on that subject was also clearly addressed to people living outside of the US.

For people living outside of the US that want to know why gun control is impossible in the US.

I thought you have previously said I like to pick arguments here. How's that theory going?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 06:13:47 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline bocker3

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:11:53 PM »
So it's not so much a Rhode Island vs. Virginia issue from the 18th century -- there are a lot more small states proportionally now. I forget the actual calculation, but while the Senate was non-representative in the 18th century, it's something like twenty times less so now. If you honestly think that was the intent then I don't know what to say.

While I get your point, I DO think that was their intent.  Consider that, originally, Senators were not even directly elected by the people - rather they were appointed by the states.  The House was meant to represent the "people", the Senate was more about the states.  Of course, all of Congress SHOULD represent the people.
Think about the things the Senate does that the House does not -- ratify treaties, confirm Presidential appointments, etc, it was supposed to be more deliberative and less tied to the "whims" of the masses  -- where as the House holds is supposed to be where fiscal items start (the people pay the taxes).  Hell, even their time in office reflects this difference -- 6 vs. 2 yrs.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline friskyguy

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  • Posts: 109
Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2013, 12:53:17 AM »
MIT shooting!!!........here we go again!!! Another tragedy and another family affected for the rest of their lives......

Yes i can appreciate that the system of the present government representation of its people in the US may require complete overhauling! Thanks for the information.

Therefore until that happens it is obvious that one can not rely on the system currently in place to do what is and should be done.

So what can one do?

That was the purpose of this thread....to hopefully galvanise the decent citizens of the US to take matters in their own hands and force the government to act.

No more excuses to leaving it up to the dysfunctional factions and government system currently in place. Yes it is a big effort to do so.....so I suppose it comes down to the fact...... does the populace really care enough about this issue to actually do something that will get the attention needed?

As a caucasian who is well travelled and living overseas, there are people  everywhere who continue to hope that their voices will someday be allowed to be heard when they are being screwed left right and center by their governments who are supposed to represent them. No demonstrations allowed for them.

Perhaps the street marches of the 60s and 70s will never be repeated in the US. If that is the case, it may say something about society of today.

Good luck for the citizens of the US.....really hope you all can work it out and stop the madness........or i suppose there is always the opportunity to immigrate to much greener, less fearful and safer pastures.
Sero converted Sept '10 / Confirmed + Dec '10
Jan '11, VL 9,500 / CD4 482 (32%)
Feb '11, VL 5,800 / CD4 680 (37%)
start Atripla
Mch '11, VL UD / CD4 700 (42%)
Jun  '11, VL UD / CD4 750 (43%)
swap to Kivexa and Efav. due to osteopenia diag. (DEXA) / kidney issues ( decline in eGFR to 77 )
start supplements - Vit D3 / Omega 3 / multivitamin / mini aspirin
Dec '11,  VL UD <20 /  CD4 670 (49%)  / CD4:CD8 = 1.4
all labs now within normal ranges
Mch '12,  VL UD / CD4 600 (51%)
Sep '12,  VL UD / CD4 810 (51%)
Mch '13   VL UD / CD4 965 (56%)
Sep '13   VL UD / CD4 (not taken)
Dec '13   VL UD / CD4 901 (35%) / CD4:CD8 = 1.1  /  eGFR > 100

Offline tednlou2

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2013, 01:26:53 AM »
I've heard people like Bill Maher respond, when people say guns don't kill people; people kill people.  He and others have responded that there is something very violent in our nature, as Americans. 

I've always thought about that.  I mean, cruelty and violence are found all around the world.  China and the Middle East certainly come to mind.  I suppose if we're talking about industrialized democracies, then it does seem like we have a strong cruel and violent streak.  I am sure the UK, France, and Canada see an equal share of muggings, elder and child abuse, and crimes like that, no? 

Do you think if guns were readily available in those countries, we would see the same violence?  I guess I would have to research this, but do those countries have similar numbers, per capita, for hate crimes, muggings, child and elder abuse, and animal cruelty?  There is an animal cruelty story here every other day on the news.  Kentucky has one of the highest rates of animal cruelty. 

Obviously, there are certainly more kind and loving people here, than cruel and violent.  However, a majority still supports the death penalty, even (especially) among those, who claim to be followers of Christ.  There are many, who think the death penalty should be expanded to cover non-violent crimes.  Many are quick to want to go to war.  Not having studied crime in other countries, I am not sure how we compare.  Is it true that we are more cruel and violent-- not anecdotally, but by crime statistics?  I know there are many here, who live in Canada or Europe. 


Offline Matts

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 05:54:02 PM »
"Obviously, there are certainly more kind and loving people here, than cruel and violent." - I hope thats right for every country.
I dont know the exact number for the US, only the Federal Crime Agency numbers (83 million residents).
It would be interesting to compare them with Canada or France, maybe a french speaking user can help.

total number of all criminal cases: 5.990.679
murder:2.174
rape:   7.539
robbery: 48.021
heavy criminal assault:139.091
burglary:2.403.781 (cars: 41.057) ( houses and flats:132.595)
computer crime:84.981

in prison: 80.100 persons
Guns: 20-30 millions
people killed by guns: 155  - 0,19 per 100.000 residents (3,45 in the US)
The gun crime is much lower in Europe due to the very strict laws, thats for sure.
I dont value that fact- its Your civil right in the US to wear guns.
Here the guns are forbidden for normal residents- but we are the third biggest Exportnation for guns. Hundred thousands are killed every wear with german high- quality guns, tanks and mines (Daimler-Benz, Rheinmetall, Heckler und Koch and so on....) Its very strange.
The some for France (EADS; Dassault and others)
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Offline Joe K

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Re: WTF!!!! Gun control legislation suffers huge blow
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 06:44:45 PM »
I dont know the exact number for the US, only the Federal Crime Agency numbers (83 million residents).
It would be interesting to compare them with Canada or France, maybe a french speaking user can help.

Here's the Wikipedia list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Joe

 


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