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Author Topic: If you're viral load is .....  (Read 1943 times)

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Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 234
If you're viral load is .....
« on: April 17, 2013, 05:00:07 PM »
''If your viral load is undetectable, then any health problems you experience won't be as a result of being HIV positive.''


What are your thoughts about this statement? How accurate do you think it is?
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline weasel

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  • Posts: 1,636
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 05:10:29 PM »


   Hi Zohar ,
                  While being undetectable is good I think we all must pay
   attention way more than the " Normal "  Person would !

     These MEDS are very hard on the liver and every organ in the body .

                                        Be well , don't worry too much  :)

                                                               Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 05:15:31 PM »
It would be helpful to know the entire context of the conversation.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 06:04:22 PM »
It would be helpful to know the entire context of the conversation.

Exactly. Why is it in quotes and italics....
Your thought?
Quote from where? Whom?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline darryaz

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Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 07:45:55 PM »
''If your viral load is undetectable, then any health problems you experience won't be as a result of being HIV positive.''

What are your thoughts about this statement? How accurate do you think it is?

I'd say this statement is open to a bit of interpretation.  For example, if I experience health problems caused by the TREATMENT then are they a result of being HIV positive or not?  I don't know the answer to that.

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 07:59:45 PM »
Context.  What if, I dunno, you had a shot immune system when you start HAART.

What if you had AIDS for years before you are undetectable. What if what if what if.

This thread may soon be rather irksome I fear.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 10:25:43 PM »
The statement is clearly FALSE


Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 234
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 03:52:14 AM »
The statement is clearly FALSE

Any reason for saying that?
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline Zohar

  • Member
  • Posts: 234
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 05:56:16 AM »
Context.  What if, I dunno, you had a shot immune system when you start HAART.
What if you had AIDS for years before you are undetectable. What if what if what if.

Sounds like you're disagreeing with the statement then.
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 07:43:30 AM »
Don't bait me or others.
We asked for the context - please elaborate.  No further input from me until you dish.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline YellowFever

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  • Posts: 155
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 08:26:18 AM »
This sounds like some high-school debate topic for which you are trying to elicit the help of forum members here for some answers. But I shall try to provide some anyways:

1) An undetectable Viral Load does not equate to a healthy immune system. It just means it has been protected from further damage. But if your CD4  is still < 500, it is likely your immune system hasn't fully recovered. Life expectancy for people such as these is still lower than the general population. Hot from CROI 2012: http://www.retroconference.org/2012b/PDFs/638.pdf

2) HIV medicine has the potential to damage your livers and kidneys. Those, in my view, are health problems caused by being HIV positive.

3) VL is a measure of the virus in your blood. Not in other areas like semen or your brain. Your brain may still be experiencing teensy bits of damage from the virus itself. Of course this is much worse if you're not on meds. A quick google "Dementia HIV HAART" will show you some research on this. Like this: http://www.neurology.org/content/56/2/257.short

4) All mental health problems such as depression stemming from the stigma of being a pozzie also counts as health problems caused by being HIV positive.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:29:08 AM by YellowFever »
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)

Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 234
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 08:53:38 AM »
Don't bait me or others.
We asked for the context - please elaborate.  No further input from me until you dish.

I'm not 'baiting' you.  If you don't want to contribute then ignore the topic.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:56:56 AM by Zohar »
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline Zohar

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Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 08:56:00 AM »
Thanks for your considered response, YellowFever.
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Online Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 09:08:32 AM »
If you are undetectable there is still the issue of inflammation and stress to the immune system , so I think the statement is false . Another example is ongoing metabolic and lipid issues with controlled HIV .

  http://www.healthhiv.org/modules/news/education-hiv_and_aging~3A_the_potential_role_of_inflammation.html

http://hivandhepatitis.com/hiv-basic-science/hiv-inflammation/3140-do-statins-reduce-risk-of-death-in-people-with-hiv

Offline buginme2

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Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 01:10:06 PM »
Any reason for saying that?

Gramatically, its a false statement.

''If your viral load is undetectable, then any health problems you experience won't be as a result of being HIV positive.''

By saying "any" health problem you then have to include all possible health problems of which you could be affected.  Since there are many health issues that are a result of being HIV positive such as increased livers disease, kidney disease, heart disease, cancer, neuropathy then any of these are possibilities.  Therefore its false.



Since the OP is refusing to share why he is asking this question then all we have to go by is how the sentence is formated.

Offline bufguy

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  • Posts: 161
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 10:18:35 AM »
I asked this question in "ask the experts' a few years ago. Here was their response:

HIV+ persons with decent CD4 counts (> 350-500) have much the same risk and outcomes for community acquired infections as HIV- persons with some exceptions. There is an increased risk for infections due to Strep pneumonia, herpes zoster, TB and possibly methicillin resistance staph infections and some others. Other infections can pose additional challenges to treat (as compared to HIV- populations) such as hepatitis B or C or human papilloma virus infections. Overall it is remarkable how well HIV+ persons doing well on treatment compare to HIV- matched persons.
5/29/08 confirmed HIV+
6/23/08 Vl 47500  CD4 511/29% CD8 .60
start atripla
8/1/08 Vl 130  CD4 667/31% CD8 .70
9/18/08 Vl un  CD4 not tested
12/19/08 Vl un CD4 723/32% CD8 .80
4/3/09 Vl un CD4 615/36% CD8  .98
8/7/09 vl un CD4 689/35% CD8 .9
12/11/09 vl un CD4 712/38% CD8 .89
4/9/10 vl un CD4 796/39% CD8 1.0
8/20/10 vl un CD4 787/38% CD8 1.0
4/6/10 vl un CD4 865/35% CD8 .9
8/16/10 vl un CD4 924/37% CD8 1.0
12/23/10 vl un CD4 1006/35% CD8 .9
5/2/10 vl un CD4 1040/39% CD8 .9
8/7/13 vl un CD4 840/39% CD8 .9

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 23,890
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 10:41:52 AM »
That reply you were given, bufguy, only specifically discusses "infections" whereas the OP references specifically the phrase "any health problems".
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline bufguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 161
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 01:42:39 PM »
My point was to show how effective treatment has become in bringing the virus down to undetectable levels and reducing the risk of infections.  Although risk of infection is not the only indicator of good health, it is certainly an important one.

Another indicator of "health" is life span...Recent studies have shown that those with HIV are now approaching the same lifespan of an HIV- person.
5/29/08 confirmed HIV+
6/23/08 Vl 47500  CD4 511/29% CD8 .60
start atripla
8/1/08 Vl 130  CD4 667/31% CD8 .70
9/18/08 Vl un  CD4 not tested
12/19/08 Vl un CD4 723/32% CD8 .80
4/3/09 Vl un CD4 615/36% CD8  .98
8/7/09 vl un CD4 689/35% CD8 .9
12/11/09 vl un CD4 712/38% CD8 .89
4/9/10 vl un CD4 796/39% CD8 1.0
8/20/10 vl un CD4 787/38% CD8 1.0
4/6/10 vl un CD4 865/35% CD8 .9
8/16/10 vl un CD4 924/37% CD8 1.0
12/23/10 vl un CD4 1006/35% CD8 .9
5/2/10 vl un CD4 1040/39% CD8 .9
8/7/13 vl un CD4 840/39% CD8 .9

Offline Dr.Strangelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 206
Re: If you're viral load is .....
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2013, 03:21:43 PM »
I don't think I'd approve the original statement. YellowFever summed up the reasons well.

How about changing the statement to:
''If your viral load is undetectable, then there is a good chance that any health problems you may experience are not related to you being HIV positive.''

 


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