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Author Topic: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?  (Read 1889 times)

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Offline 0608

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HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« on: April 14, 2013, 12:21:05 PM »
Okay, I'd appreciate people's honest feedback on what I did two nights ago.  First off, I tested positive last June, and for six months, I was completely celibate.  Then I started dating someone (also +) in December, and we were sexually active together, using condoms every time (BTW, I'm a bottom).  He and I were both undetectable by that time.

The two of us broke up about two weeks ago.  And then on Friday night, I hooked up with a guy that I chatted with on the Internet, and we had sex.  It was my first time since my diagnosis that I had sex with someone who I didn't know to be positive and also with someone who didn't know I was positive.  We used a condom (I made it clear in chatting that I didn't engage in unsafe sex), and I was the bottom.  Later that night, I went to a gay bathhouse, again for the first time since my diagnosis, and I had safe sex with two more guys.

The thing is, when I first tested positive, I was quite certain that I would never have sex with people without telling them my status.  But to be honest, I'm not feeling much, if any, guilt about my Friday night.  My thinking is, I'm undetectable, I made sure condoms were used by every partner, and being the bottom each time, the chances of me realistically exposing anyone to HIV was 0%.  And I would NEVER engage in unsafe sex.

Like I said, I'm not experiencing guilt, but at the same time, I'm not sure about everything either.  So I'd like to hear people's honest reactions to this.  Thank you.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 12:30:47 PM »
My honest reaction is that people who may jump on this thread to condemn you are living in very delicate glass houses.

So long as you have taken the precautions necessary to take transmission off the table, anything else depends on the level of relationship you are seeking with a person. Might be awkward if you find yourself wanting to undertake something more serious and then having to have a belated disclosure. But that's certainly not an absolute deal breaker.  Not for anyone with a passing understanding of the virus and a growing affection for you.

I applaud your adherence to your regimen and your use of condoms. As an UD bottom you are stepping above and beyond for your sexual health and that of others.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 12:37:42 PM »
Okay, I'd appreciate people's honest feedback on what I did two nights ago.  First off, I tested positive last June, and for six months, I was completely celibate.  Then I started dating someone (also +) in December, and we were sexually active together, using condoms every time (BTW, I'm a bottom).  He and I were both undetectable by that time.

The two of us broke up about two weeks ago.  And then on Friday night, I hooked up with a guy that I chatted with on the Internet, and we had sex.  It was my first time since my diagnosis that I had sex with someone who I didn't know to be positive and also with someone who didn't know I was positive.  We used a condom (I made it clear in chatting that I didn't engage in unsafe sex), and I was the bottom.  Later that night, I went to a gay bathhouse, again for the first time since my diagnosis, and I had safe sex with two more guys.

The thing is, when I first tested positive, I was quite certain that I would never have sex with people without telling them my status.  But to be honest, I'm not feeling much, if any, guilt about my Friday night.  My thinking is, I'm undetectable, I made sure condoms were used by every partner, and being the bottom each time, the chances of me realistically exposing anyone to HIV was 0%.  And I would NEVER engage in unsafe sex.

Like I said, I'm not experiencing guilt, but at the same time, I'm not sure about everything either.  So I'd like to hear people's honest reactions to this.  Thank you.

First you need to make up your own mind, how to follow your own moral code, globally.

Then there might be nuances.  Or maybe not. Depends on your personal moral code.

By the way, your moral code obviously will consider your own desires and conscience, but you need to consider what you think your partners would want for themselves...  Even if you decide not to respect what you think they would want.

Another thing that matters is the law where you are having sex.   You need to know exactly what the laws are.  Whether or not you decide to respect the laws to the letter...   Remember, there are laws just about non-disclosure - in some places.  And this means, even if you have safe sex and there is no risk of transmission.   

 


“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 12:43:39 PM »
My honest reaction is that people who may jump on this thread to condemn you are living in very delicate glass houses.

So long as you have taken the precautions necessary to take transmission off the table, anything else depends on the level of relationship you are seeking with a person. Might be awkward if you find yourself wanting to undertake something more serious and then having to have a belated disclosure. But that's certainly not an absolute deal breaker.  Not for anyone with a passing understanding of the virus and a growing affection for you.

I applaud your adherence to your regimen and your use of condoms. As an UD bottom you are stepping above and beyond for your sexual health and that of others.


All I can add to this is, well, nothing -- it's pretty much exactly what I would write.

OK, I will add something now that I think of it. My advice is to also make sure you have your wits about you by not combining booze and recreational drugs as those are times when folks slip up with condom use.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 12:52:35 PM »
Hang on to your hat because you'll probably get some blow-back from the post-infection morality crowd (oops, you already did). If you are practicing safe sex personally I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about.

Offline Raf

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 01:03:39 PM »
If you are practicing safe sex personally I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about.

This, so much this.
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 01:13:29 PM »
0608, I hope you're being vigilant as bottom and you know what your top's up to regarding the condom being used.

Did he make sure there was no air bubble in the tip when he put it on?

Is he keeping you and the condom well-lubed (with water-based lube)?

Because if you take care of those two things - and don't let him slip it off in the middle of it all - you're unlikely to have a condom break on you and that means no risk. 



Guys, please quit predicting how some members may respond to this thread. That's bordering on flame-bait. :-\
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 05:14:28 PM »
My honest reaction is that people who may jump on this thread to condemn you are living in very delicate glass houses.

So long as you have taken the precautions necessary to take transmission off the table, anything else depends on the level of relationship you are seeking with a person. Might be awkward if you find yourself wanting to undertake something more serious and then having to have a belated disclosure. But that's certainly not an absolute deal breaker.  Not for anyone with a passing understanding of the virus and a growing affection for you.

I applaud your adherence to your regimen and your use of condoms. As an UD bottom you are stepping above and beyond for your sexual health and that of others.

I can't add much either, other than to warn you to know the laws, that may cover HIV disclosure where you live.  I believe you are conducting yourself in both a moral and ethical fashion and that is to be commended.  Just be sure that you are complying with any local laws.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2013, 12:31:03 AM »
You're being as responsible as could be expected.  As already mentioned, I would just make sure to careful, if under the influence.  I have not hooked up with anyone, since learning my status.  I cannot say what I would do.  I know disclosure is very stressing, so I may not disclose, if condoms were used.  And, especially if I were UD. 

If I really liked someone and saw a future, I would probably want to be upfront, so there weren't bad feelings from the start.  I know many guys never inquire about HIV or other STI's, and don't seem to care.  If a guy asks you whether you are poz, what do you say?  Would you tell them, if they asked?


Offline 0608

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 07:28:47 AM »
Thanks for the opinions, guys.  Much appreciated, and the points about the need to be vigilant and not letting alcohol or whatever impair one's judgment were right on, I think (for me and really for anyone sexually active).

Tednlou, personally, I don't think I'd go into a relationship with a negative guy in the future (just my preference), so yes, I would of course reveal my status to someone that I was interested in dating.  I was talking more about one-time hook-ups (man, I sound slutty) in my original post.  And frankly, no one's ever asked me about HIV or STDs before gettin' it on, because it would probably a mood-killer for most people.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 07:40:11 AM by 0608 »

Offline ARMANDO

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 07:37:59 AM »
i don't think you have to worry about feeling guilty about the sex you had in the bathhouse,most of the people that go there are hiv + themselves.

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 08:56:12 AM »
i don't think you have to worry about feeling guilty about the sex you had in the bathhouse,most of the people that go there are hiv + themselves.

Assuming the other guy is hiv positive can be just as risky as assuming the other guy is negative.

He may not be poz but is assuming you are neg - and that's the kind of thing that can come back and bite you in the ass. No, not every time by far, but the potential is always there.


For example, what do you do if a condom breaks? What would you say if he takes the condom off and you only find out afterwards? (It happens.)

How would you feel emotionally if you were faced with this dilemma?

Would your answers be the same whether you were top or bottom?

Even if you're undetectable blips happen. Where would you draw the line?

Do you know the hiv criminalisation law where you live? Whether or not we agree with the law, we can be investigated and possibly prosecuted if things go wrong.

Even if you chose to ignore the law where you live, you still need to know of what you can be accused.

Ignorance is not a defence. That's the harsh reality we have to face.



Please understand that I'm not getting at the OP or anyone else and I don't necessarily expect any direct answers. I'm just putting forward some food for thought.



Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2013, 11:09:14 AM »
i don't think you have to worry about feeling guilty about the sex you had in the bathhouse,most of the people that go there are hiv + themselves.
Stereotype.  Only confuses the moral decision-making.
Maybe if one particular sauna is well-known for mostly barebacking...   But hardly true of all the saunas in the world - that "most of the people are HIV+".  Please.... 
I think I can name some special night sex parties, for barebacking, and some "sex clubs" that are known to be for bare-backers.  I can't think of a sauna, however....


“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline 0608

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2013, 11:13:23 AM »
Ann, I think your food for thought is absolutely valid, as I do think (not saying this is what you intended to mean, Armando) the "most people in bathhouses are probably +, anyway" assumption can be used to try to justify pretty much everything.

But I did want to ask you about the "blips" that you said do happen.  From my understanding, any risk of undetectables transmitting HIV comes from their semen, which would come into play when they top someone.  Is there any evidence that suggests that someone who is undetectable can still transmit HIV through their blood (which would come into play when bottoming)? 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm going to use condoms every single time, if only to avoid any other STDs that could threaten my undetectable status, but I did assume that having undetectable levels of HIV in my blood meant that my blood couldn't transmit HIV to anyone.  Is that wrong?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 11:56:09 AM »
i don't think you have to worry about feeling guilty about the sex you had in the bathhouse,most of the people that go there are hiv + themselves.

Where I live they're full of married "straight" men from the suburbs (or in the city at a convention, etc.), depending on time of day and week.

Leave office tower > go to bath house > take late commuter train home > tell wife and kids you had a sudden late meeting

Gay people are there after the clubs get out and they haven't scored.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 12:00:52 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline elf

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 03:15:14 PM »
My infection hasn't changed my pre-infection ''morality'':
1/ I thought (and still think) one's being HIV-positive is a piece of confidential data of that person (which should not be easily disclosed, just like credit cards numbers should not be)
2/ I would date an HIV-positive person (if I [had] remained negative)
3/ I wouldn't change my pre- and post-infection behavior (...I [would] prefer long-term relations to ONS's and have no more than 2 sexual partners a year).

So far so good,
I've been positive for 4 years now,
went on a few dates, the guys found me cute but as soon as I disclosed,
they ran away without a trace.

 ;D
So, I haven't been sexually active for 4 years now (ever since my diagnosis).
I had more contact with ghosts and aliens than with sizzling gay and bisexual men.  ;D (Efavirenz and asexual behavior shift you to another dimensions, so to speak.  ;D).

HIV news always focus on negative stuff (''Dramatic increase in incidence of liver cancer in HIV-positive people with viral hepatitis'', ''Anal cancer on rise in HIV-positive men''), so I think people with bad karma should avoid sex (unless they want all those ''gems'' like HPV and Hepatitis C on top of HIV  :o).

Your mileage may vary.

More practical approach:
1) you should be more afraid of getting other nasty stuff from them than of, as a
2) UD condom-using bottom, transmitting HIV to other people
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 03:21:40 PM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV+, Undetectable, and... Sexually Active?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »
so I think people with bad karma should avoid sex (unless they want all those ''gems'' like HPV and Hepatitis C on top of HIV  :o).

I don't follow WTF you are talking about and who has the bad karma and should become a monk.  Clarify?

More practical approach:
1) you should be more afraid of getting other nasty stuff from them than of, as a
2) UD condom-using bottom, transmitting HIV to other people

Agree completely.  HIV+ guy decided after a bit, that HIV infection was done and dusted, so it was fine to bareback with other HIV+ guys, and got Hep C.  Pretty stupid of me. Live and learn.

PS - unless you are living under a sexual ROCK, most gay men have contact with HPV pretty early in their sexual "careers". 

I think its the Heps you want to avoid.  Syphillis - curable - but you going to get screened all the time??  My GP started to balk... (Asshole...)   And maybe soon, incurable clap.  Puke on that... right?   :-X :'( :( :o >:(
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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