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Author Topic: Facebook's targeted advertising  (Read 2368 times)

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Offline Larsen

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Facebook's targeted advertising
« on: March 16, 2013, 02:13:53 PM »
Despite my HIV-status not being declared anywhere on my Facebook profile, nor indeed explicitly in any of my 'likes', I am somewhat concerned to note that I have, in the last 24 hours, been targeted by two different adverts which explicitly identify me as being HIV-positive. A friend who lives with bipolar disorder has experienced the same thing with targeted adverts identifying his mental health issues.

Personally, I consider it to be a crass and deeply disturbing invasion of privacy that Facebook's algorithms are even scanning for health conditions, let alone using these stigmatising assumptions to target advertising. Not only that, but here in the UK it is highly questionable whether it is even legal.

Before making an official complaint to Facebook and kicking up a stink through various activist groups, I was just curious to hear if any of you have noticed anything similar.
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Offline thunter34

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 02:21:37 PM »
Yes, I have noticed the same thing.  I have also noticed FB shows me what other people supposedly "like" or have expressed any curiosity or interest in.  I assume it is showing everyone else the same thing about me.  I have no idea what to do about it - save abandoning FB altogether.

But since nearly everything is linked together these days, I spent a little time doing all sorts of random searches and likes.  Now folks can see that "hot women in my area want to meet me" and that I am into underwater basket weaving.  I've explored all sorts of randomized things and now get targeting advertising to match.

The end result is that you can't really tell jack about me by what FB is sending.  And, truth is, I am open about my status and don't give a shit.  But I understand that others do...and it still grates me just in principle because it is so invasive.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 02:26:35 PM »
It happens on this web site -- things show up that I have been shopping for on-line. Like a chair or a lamp, etc. It has nothing to do with poz.com searching my computer (o noes!) or, similarly, facebook searching your computer. It just has to do with how on line advertising works using cookies. I know there's a way to "opt out" for targeted advertising on google so maybe do some research on that. I'm not paranoid enough to bother.

Basically I think if you are the sole user of your computer, laptop, tablet or whatever then you're the only one who is going to see what you're objecting to.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 02:35:10 PM »
It happens on this web site -- things show up that I have been shopping for on-line. Like a chair or a lamp, etc. It has nothing to do with poz.com searching my computer (o noes!) or, similarly, facebook searching your computer. It just has to do with how on line advertising works using cookies. I know there's a way to "opt out" for targeted advertising on google so maybe do some research on that. I'm not paranoid enough to bother.

Basically I think if you are the sole user of your computer, laptop, tablet or whatever then you're the only one who is going to see what you're objecting to.

To do degree it is based on cookies, but FB is also in bed with YouTube, Spotify, Yahoo and I can't even remember who else.  They get profiles on you based on your interests and what you read and then plaster you with ads to match.

But I agree that, for the most part, any objectionable ads are pretty much going to be for your eyes only.  The problematic part is that if you, say...read lots of articles concerning HIV on Yahoo then that is going to get broadcast to all your friends unless you carefully take the time to be sure it doesn't.  If you like AussieBum's page, then it's pretty certain folks will figure out you're gay by broadcasting that interest much more prominently than they used to.

On a related note...I just found an article that talks about FB's privacy options.  Oy.  Good luck with all that.  The chart looks like a spider's web of things to toggle and navigate, click and unclick. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-guide-to-facebook-s-privacy-options-201530414.html?fb_action_ids=10151563739559680&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=facebook_cb&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151563739559680%22%3A498848643506184%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151563739559680%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151563739559680%22%3A%22facebook_cb%22%7D

Like Phillicia, I am not paranoid enough to bother.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 02:39:24 PM »
Conversely, do you want to pay for each of those services you use in place of targeted advertising?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Larsen

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 02:50:04 PM »
Conversely, do you want to pay for each of those services you use in place of targeted advertising?


I don't have a problem with targeted advertising. I do have a problem with targeting PRESUMED (and potentially stigmatising) health conditions and showing that in the form of adverts that are clearly visible to anyone sat next / near to you. And that is before you even start to consider the likely illegality of it.

As with thunter, I am generally open about being HIV-positive, but not everyone is. 
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 02:55:08 PM »

I don't have a problem with targeted advertising. I do have a problem with targeting PRESUMED (and potentially stigmatising) health conditions and showing that in the form of adverts that are clearly visible to anyone sat next / near to you. And that is before you even start to consider the likely illegality of it.

As with thunter, I am generally open about being HIV-positive, but not everyone is. 

Well then I guess you better figure out how to use a browser extension that eliminates it or contact the UK Home Office with your concerns of legality. btw, they've been doing this for at least three years.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Larsen

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 02:58:15 PM »
It has nothing to do with poz.com searching my computer (o noes!) or, similarly, facebook searching your computer. It just has to do with how on line advertising works using cookies.

In the case of poz.com, it is just cookies, but in the case of Facebook it is to do with scanning your likes, comments etc. and running these through algorithms to try to deduce facts about you in order to monetize (and no, you can't opt out of it Facebook).
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Offline Larsen

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 03:01:11 PM »
btw, they've been doing this for at least three years.

Specifically targeting health conditions through Facebook? I'd love to see the proof of that - targeted advertising perhaps, but, as I have already made clear, that isn't specifically what the complaint is about.. And as for browser extensions, they can't prevent Facebook running your posts, comments and likes through algorithms.
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 03:14:10 PM »
Regardless of your quibbling, I'm quite sure that facebook's activities are covered through their Terms of Service, something you undoubtedly agreed to when you signed up there but likely didn't bother to read because it was several pages.

Nobody is forcing you to sit at Starbucks and use facebook where Susanna-Anonymous sitting next to you with her vile Cinnamon Dolce latte can peek over your left elbow and see that you have AIDS.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Larsen

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 03:20:59 PM »
Regardless of your quibbling and uninformed comments, I'm can guarantee you that terms of service don't trump privacy laws and disability protections. As I have said repeatedly, it is not the principle of targeted advertising - it is about scanning in order to make assumptions about personal matters like health conditions,  which is a whole different kettle of fish of targeting a Ford advert at you because you happen to have liked Ford.

Now, if you don't mind, I was asking if anyone else had noticed anything similar, not whether you happen to think that it is reasonable that Facebook exploit illness in order to monetize.

As for the rest of your banal comment, I shall just ignore it with the utter contempt it deserves.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 03:23:35 PM by Larsen »
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 03:22:54 PM »
mebbe you should hire a lawyer ::)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Larsen

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 03:25:45 PM »
mebbe you should hire a lawyer ::)

Maybe you should just find another thread to troll.
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 03:31:25 PM »
You're making legal arguments, not me -- it's not trolling to point out that if you wish to combat the Evils of Mark Zuckerberg on the basis of what is and isn't allowed in the UK you should take appropriate action. Like I said previously, this has been going on for at least three years. If it really distresses you use twitter.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Larsen

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  • Posts: 41
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 03:35:18 PM »
Yet more flamebaiting. Grow up.

In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Offline Ann

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 07:34:36 AM »
Yet more flamebaiting. Grow up.



There has not been a single example of flamebaiting in this thread - although you very nearly crossed that line at least three times.


As for the rest of your banal comment, I shall just ignore it with the utter contempt it deserves.


(Suggesting another member deserves contempt = personal attack.)


Maybe you should just find another thread to troll.


(Basically calling another member a troll = name calling.)


Yet more flamebaiting. Grow up.


(Accusing someone of doing something they have not done - and a personal attack telling them to "grow up".)

Nobody attacked you personally, accused you of saying or doing anything you did not yourself admit to saying or doing, or implicitly called you a name.




If you object to targeted adverts, perhaps you should download something called Adblock Plus. I use it and I never see any adverts I don't want to see on any webpage I visit.

I don't use it because I worry what someone looking at my computer may see, I use it because adverts, particularly ones that flash and cause a distraction from what I'm trying to read, do my head in. A webpage that is heavily laden with adverts can also take longer to load, which also does my head in. It's just extra stress I really don't need.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Larsen

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  • Posts: 41
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 08:53:35 AM »
Ann,

There are several examples of unprovoked flamebaiting from him, but of course he is part of the chosen clique, so the blinkers are firmly attached..

He is an asinine cunt who is for ever jumping down people's throats when he has a cob on, and the forums are littered with examples of that and is one of the main reasons this place has a reputation for being so unwelcoming.

With that I am signing out of this festering shithole.
In a far better p[lace than this minging shithole

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 09:26:48 AM »
Ann,

There are several examples of unprovoked flamebaiting from him, but of course he is part of the chosen clique, so the blinkers are firmly attached..

He is an asinine cunt who is for ever jumping down people's throats when he has a cob on, and the forums are littered with examples of that and is one of the main reasons this place has a reputation for being so unwelcoming.

With that I am signing out of this festering shithole.

But what he never does is call someone an asinine cunt in a serious thread. He may use the odd expletive towards someone, but only in threads where people are purposely teasing each other. If you can't get the humour that goes on in some threads around here, then maybe this isn't the place for you.

No where in this thread did he give you a hard time. He tried to help you and if you couldn't see past your pre-conceived notions of him to see that, then, well, I don't know what to say to you.

However, in light of your blatant name-calling and obviously utter disdain for this place*, I'm going to slap a mute on you that will last for two days. *("festering shithole"? Do you have ANY idea how many people this place has helped over the years, and continues to help - despite the presence of people who had their sense of humour removed when they got their hiv diagnosis?)

Hopefully by the time your two-day mute expires, you will have either calmed down and realised that people were trying to give you advice, not grief, in this thread, or you will have moved on.

Either option on your part is fine by me.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline YellowFever

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  • Posts: 112
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 12:06:06 PM »
I've noticed that too. I've only discussed about my condition with a confidant over a private message and shared a video on World Aids Day. No 'Likes' so far. I think the disturbing part is not them trying to serve you relevant ads (Google does that too), but how they presume to know who you are based on how little you've revealed over FB. God forbid, one day you make a joke about NAMBLA and next thing you know they have you marked for prison.

I've sent way more messages on GMail to relatives about HIV, watched a few poz.com videos on Youtube but I've not gotten any freaky Youtube suggestions about HIV. Which makes me wonder either A) FB's data analysis engine is a lot smarter than Google's or B) Google is better at sublimity.
08/2010 HIV- 08/2012 HIV+
10/2012 CD4 415(15%)
04/2013 CD4 457(15%)
10/2013 CD4 520 (20%) VL 650 (wtf?)
02/2014 CD4 410(20%) VL 390 (yay!)

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2013, 12:18:13 PM »
I abandoned facebook sometime ago.  Anyway.
I was wondering if maybe PC people have access to different "user" sessions, like we do on mac.
I have a "clean", all business, "user" session that I can open at school, at the cafe, etc...
This doesn't address the icky nature of what social networking sites are doing...   But it is a way to take back some control of your online experience. 

Just wondering, by the way, how much longer until facebook face plants and fades away...
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2013, 12:24:02 PM »
I just cannot understand for the life of me

why any and all of you seem to be afraid

of being outed about your HIV/AIDS status

on FB, twitter, or any other social media

if THIS bothers you so much, stay off of FB

and social media

REALLY, why is that, I'm confused

who cares if you have it or not

I do understand that stigma exist

and that some people are still scared of what they don't understand

but , you all just need to relax, it ain't the end of the world

if everyone knows you have teh damm AIDS, now is it

just my 2 cents here, I have always believed in full disclosure

for the last 25 yrs.  it is what it is,

GET OVER IT, PLEASE!


HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mecch

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2013, 12:33:13 PM »
denb45
there are different issues getting mixed up in this thread.
The OP posted objecting to the idea that a corporation can track and identify a person based on a medical condition.  Medical conditions are generally considered private information... That's it.
Other people have thrown into the mix the issues about the possible outing - that the condition could be revealed to contacts on Facebook. That the ads could pop up when we don't necessarily want people seeing them, using a computer in public. 

Why do you have to confuse the issue by confounding in the issue of who we disclose to and not???   People who are concerned about an issue of personal privacy, when online,  are not a MUTUALLY exclusive group from people who are generally open about their HIV status...  It just depends on where and with whom.

Also, lets remember that some people do NOT disclose because there is bias and prejudice and very serious discrimination, in this world, against HIV+ people, for instance -- employment discrimination. 

Geez, keep things in perspective and think a bit globally. 

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2013, 01:11:59 PM »
denb45
 
Geez, keep things in perspective and think a bit globally.

Corporations as well as big -pharma runs  everything, so, not sure what your insinuting here

@ least here in the US, that is the way things are, and will contiune to be that way

if most of you don't already know this, everything you put on FB , click on to, type & say

can be read by whomever you deem, so again, still not understanding the whole

globally perspective ..... ( I saw, if I'm not mistaken, that the OP lived in the UK )

and had a beef w/ FB privacy issues, perhaps, they should learn how to use

FB correctly, it might by helpful to them, who knows.......

if anybody dosen't know how to use social media , then it's your own fault

if you say it and put it out there, it's on youself, and you simply cannot play the blame game

Only who I deem on FB can actually see what my interests are, and that only includes

friends & family, also , YES, I do use my real name on FB

anit no shame in my game, it is, what it is

P.S.  I see that ANN gave the OP a well deserved time out

gotta love her for for that  :-*



HUGS

DEN   :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mecch

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Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2013, 01:28:23 PM »
I just cannot understand for the life of me

why any and all of you seem to be afraid

of being outed about your HIV/AIDS status

on FB, twitter, or any other social media

if THIS bothers you so much, stay off of FB

and social media

REALLY, why is that, I'm confused

who cares if you have it or not

You changed the subject in your response.
I was referring to you "not understanding" why someone wants to keep their HIV status private, whereever and from whomever they choose...
You well know why.  And I gave you one good reason, too - employment discrimination.
Your points about knowing how to use facebook, social media.  That is fine...  But your feigned incredulous that some people consider a medical condition to be private --  is just that - an attitude.

For what?  Its a complicated world. Not everyone HIV+ is in a position to shout it from the treetops... There is no need for a pecking order about who is more or less open about their HIV+ status.

The point the OP made was clear as day...    Denby, if corporations control everything, that doesn't make whatever they do right.  Yes we have to be wise to counteract that and protect ourselves.  But that doesn't make the loss of privacy OK. 
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2013, 01:57:36 PM »


    Denby, if corporations control everything, that doesn't make whatever they do right.  Yes we have to be wise to counteract that and protect ourselves.  But that doesn't make the loss of privacy OK.

Your privacy is your own bissness, you are the one, and only one that has the control over it, as far as social media is concerned , I never said that the loss of   privacy was Ok, I for one don't think it's Ok

HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Facebook's targeted advertising
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2013, 06:20:38 PM »
THIS article kinda sum it up about FB and what it's doing, and why

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/25/opinion/rushkoff-why-im-quitting-facebook

a good read at least,  see for yourself ;)


HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

 


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