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URGENT!!! European in NYC, meds have run out!

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Ann:

--- Quote from: bocker3 on April 07, 2013, 11:10:28 AM ---
Are they middle men -- absolutely.  So is the Gov't for Medicare/Medicaid.  In fact, anyone paying for the care besides the patient is, by definition, a middle man.


--- End quote ---

In both government and private sector (insurance companies) health care models, the patient is still the ultimate payer - just at fairer rates that aren't at the whim of corporate executives looking to buy another yacht or a fifth home.

The big difference is a government isn't looking to make billions in profit at the health expense of the poor.

Health outcomes in poverty stricken areas are poor regardless of what country we're talking about - and this effect is amplified when people don't have access to affordable healthcare.

A fundamental, life-sustaining need such as healthcare should not be thought of as a privlege or a commodity to be bought and sold. It should be a human right our governments uphold.

bocker3:

--- Quote from: mitch777 on April 07, 2013, 11:34:59 AM ---Gilead CEO pay: $90 million
USA Budget for ADAP/Ryan White: $900 million

One man's salary= 10 %

Seems like meaningful savings to me.
--- End quote ---

Agreed -- but if Gilead cuts CEO pay, that money does not flow to ADAP, so while this would a wonderful thing, it is a meaningless comparison in the current model.  Not to mention that I would guess a large chunk (perhaps the majority??) of this money came from stock option sales, not from the company profits.  i could be wrong, but knowing how the CEO of my company is paid, I'm probably right.



--- Quote from: mitch777 on April 07, 2013, 11:34:59 AM ---
Add up the billions and billions of PROFIT that all of these companies generate.

Seems like meaningful savings to me.
--- End quote ---

Perhaps -- but in this country, you aren't going to get the government to be able to limit the profit of one industry.  What about all the profit of food companies -- yet people go hungry?  Housing companies, yet people can't afford homes?  Energy companies, yet people go cold in the winter?
I'm not saying that we shouldn't advocate for change -- we absolutely do need to change.  Until the US decides to fundamentally change how healthcare is delivered, we are going to have these companies making profit.  Perhaps we could do something about the "profits" made by all these non-profit hospitals.  That seems to be something far more achievable in the short term, but it won't happen and I hear very few complaining about it. 


--- Quote from: mitch777 on April 07, 2013, 11:34:59 AM ---Our elected officials can lead by changing the laws in order to negotiate better drug prices if they had the guts. 
Seems like a no brainer to me.
--- End quote ---

No argument from me at all.  How many of us voted for our present elected officials though?  If they can do as they please but still get reelected, that is on us.  Money rules only if they feel secure in their position -- if not, then the voters rule.




--- Quote from: mitch777 on April 07, 2013, 11:34:59 AM ---Healthcare should be a human right in this country and as much as I think capitalism has many benefits, the healthcare system fails too many too often the way it is designed.
--- End quote ---
Yes -- so to do a good many of our industries -- food, housing, and energy just to name three more.


--- Quote from: mitch777 on April 07, 2013, 11:34:59 AM ---I agree that the insurance companies try to keep costs down to some extent, but it really isn't solving the cost issue enough to put a dent in the outlandish GDP to Healthcare ratio.

We have got to attack ALL of the greed involved and I for one don't feel comfortable in defending ANY of the culprits.

--- End quote ---
I am NOT defending them -- I am merely pointing out that we aren't focused on the right area.  The high cost of health care does not start with insurance companies -- only the portion that WE PAY does.  The high cost of health care starts with the hospitals, the pharma companies, the medical equipement (FREE SCOOTERS FOR ALL....  except they ain't free).  It is VERY American to not care terribly about what someone else pays on our behalf, that is why, IMO, there is not any groundswell of complaints against what the hospitals charge -- they are paid by insurance companies, not us.

So -- I would love to end up in the same place you would -- I just see a need to push in a different spot at this point in time.

Mike

mitch777:
mike,

all I am saying is:

1) the current model doesn't work.

2) the insurance industry is part of the problem.
(IMO a large enough part of the problem to focus on)

3) the other culprits should not be ignored either.
(they are ALL part of the problem)

4) income inequality comes into play because it drives the cost of healthcare up for all of us due to SIMPLE GREED.
(I never said that the money saved by reducing the salary (stock options or not)would go to ADAP. But it DOES bring up the cost of healthcare.)

5) housing, food, energy?
it IS a problem.
again, income inequality related.

6) I vote. for those who don't, well, they are part of the problem. sad.

7) i'm sorry if you thought I implied that you were defending the insurance companies.
I quoted your post because I think the insurance companies deserve their fair share of the blame for healthcare costs.

8) I am in total agreement with you that hospitals, big pharm, and medical suppliers play a MAJOR part.
I am just putting the insurance companies into the same bag.

9) The ENTIRE system needs an overhaul.
Will we ever see it happen?
Should we stop caring?

My strong negative opinion about the ENTIRE system INCLUDING insurance companies stands.
Insurance companies are a huge burden on our system.
To minimize their role is IMO ignoring "part" of the problem.

I guess I just don't see the need or purpose for private insurance companies in our system. period.
Maybe we should simply agree that we disagree on this issue.

m.

mitch777:

--- Quote from: Ann on April 07, 2013, 12:37:31 PM ---In both government and private sector (insurance companies) health care models, the patient is still the ultimate payer - just at fairer rates that aren't at the whim of corporate executives looking to buy another yacht or a fifth home.

The big difference is a government isn't looking to make billions in profit at the health expense of the poor.

Health outcomes in poverty stricken areas are poor regardless of what country we're talking about - and this effect is amplified when people don't have access to affordable healthcare.

A fundamental, life-sustaining need such as healthcare should not be thought of as a privlege or a commodity to be bought and sold. It should be a human right our governments uphold.

--- End quote ---

I think it would have been easier to just quoted you Ann. ::)

I am curious if anyone here knows what the grand total of ALL American private health insurance companies PROFIT amounted to last year.

My guess is that it would be staggering!

mitch777:

--- Quote from: bocker3 on April 07, 2013, 01:04:37 PM --- 

 It is VERY American to not care terribly about what someone else pays on our behalf, that is why, IMO, there is not any groundswell of complaints against what the hospitals charge -- they are paid by insurance companies, not us.


--- End quote ---

Sorry, just one more observation.

I agree with the above statement but also think it applies to the cost of insurance.
If everyone had to pay the entire cost (like me) for health insurance, Americans would go nuts.
Unfortunately, since a majority of Americans get their insurance paid in part or in full by their employers, most have no idea what the true cost is and don't care.

Large companies get discounted rates because of the size of their particular "pool".

We are a "pool" of 2 people and pay $24,000.00 per year out of our pocket.

I get upset that my focus on insurance companies is considered misplaced.

The insurance company rates are designed to maximize profit and they get away with charging the little guy a fortune because they can.
I hate the insurance thieves and with good reason.

Divide and conquer the market is their plan and it's working like a charm. >:(

m.

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