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Author Topic: Sequester madness  (Read 7303 times)

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Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,968
Sequester madness
« on: March 02, 2013, 12:35:44 AM »
Pardon me if this has been posted, but this is deadly serious. The sequester could effect funding for ADAP.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/01/sequester_could_lead_to_massive_cuts_in_hiv_testing_treatment_partner/

Offline texaninnyc87

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  • Posts: 247
Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 12:58:13 AM »
Some of the statistics in that article are insane! half of gay men currently in their 20's will be positive in 30 years? 70% for black men? what i'm kind of confused about it how they can say that 60% of young people who are positive dont know. if they dont know, then how do the people conducting the survery know?
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 01:07:36 AM »
ObAMA just signed the order , so they are good as done at the moment.  will see what happends.
11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
06/10/2012  cd4-614, vl-UD
12/14/2012  cd4-764, vl-UD
09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Online Jeff G

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 01:08:35 AM »
Some of the statistics in that article are insane! half of gay men currently in their 20's will be positive in 30 years? 70% for black men? what i'm kind of confused about it how they can say that 60% of young people who are positive dont know. if they dont know, then how do the people conducting the survery know?

The rate that a given number in an age group that test positive for HIV on a consistent basis can give you a pretty accurate picture of who in the same demographic will test positive for HIV in the future . 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 02:45:56 AM »
Those are very grim statistics.  Scary stats.  And, the thought that the current situation would exacerbate the problem is troubling. 

Offline Dr.Strangelove

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 03:23:45 AM »
I don't think it's sensible to extrapolate infection rates 30 years into the future in order to tout some scary statistics.

There is a lot going on. Research is making good progress. 30 years is a long time. I'm confident that by then HIV will not be a newsworthy issue any more.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2013, 06:54:32 AM »
I don't think it's sensible to extrapolate infection rates 30 years into the future in order to tout some scary statistics.

There is a lot going on. Research is making good progress. 30 years is a long time. I'm confident that by then HIV will not be a newsworthy issue any more.

Wow. We're not talking about thirty years, we're talking about now. We're talking about people who need access to meds now. I rely on ADAP for my meds and without them I would die.

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2013, 08:13:34 AM »
I have to believe that these idiots in DC will come up with some kind of solution after all this is said and done.  I think eventually the American people will have to stand up and make a stink about it,  which will set a fire under their asses. I'm talking about both parties, not just one of the other.  It seems both parties are to blame for this stupid issue.
11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
06/10/2012  cd4-614, vl-UD
12/14/2012  cd4-764, vl-UD
09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 10:22:06 AM »
It seems both parties are to blame for this stupid issue.
i hate this kind of false equivalency. We all know the Tea Party/Republican party is at fault for not compromising to reach legitimate cuts.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline denb45

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 10:56:25 AM »
Sounds like another Washington D.C. fear mongering scare tactic to me


HUGS

DEN  :D

« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:06:16 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 11:08:34 AM »
What's all the fuss, most of us who have already grandfathered into the AIDS/meds system of disability along with other failing health issues for the last 10 to 15 yrs. or more (who cannot work anymore)

probably won't notice much of any anything at all

sounds like another Washington fear mongering tactic  to me


HUGS

DEN  :D

Are you kidding me? I guess it's no fuss if it doesn't effect you. I've had AIDS longer than you and I'm not "grandfathered" into the system. I work, pay the premium for basic insurance that doesn't cover my meds. I am  dependent on ADAP to cover the cost of my life-saving meds. I wish I didn't have to work and had all my basic needs covered by the government but that's not reality for most poz folks. Jesus.

Offline denb45

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 11:13:28 AM »
doxie you'll get your meds, don't worry I haven't heard them cutting any ADAP

I'm not on ADAP I have BCBS w/ co-pays

Sounds like another Washington D.C. fear mongering scare tactic to me


HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 11:32:13 AM »
There is no way in hell, that the FEDS are gonna let AIDS run-a-muck

that would be a major public health crisis

not gonna happen

HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 11:40:56 AM »
don't worry I haven't heard them cutting any ADAP
then maybe you haven't been reading enough about the sequester cuts to HIV-related services and many other health care, housing and food (ie meals on wheels) services. Not to mention the reduced testing! As medical science suggests TEST and treat is the way to go, we now won't have the money to test or treat.

Quote
• 15,700 people losing ADAP benefits
• 5,000 households losing HOPWA assistance
• 460 AIDS research grants will be eliminated
• 424,000 fewer HIV tests will be administered by the CDC
Sequester Takes from the Poor, and Just Keeps on Taking
from housingworks.org

Quote
As a result of sequestration, ADAP will be cut
by approximately $77 million and 15,708 clients
will lose access to crucial life-saving drugs.

Enhanced HIV testing funding will be cut by
$5.4 million. The number of HIV tests
administered will be greatly reduced and
approximately 412 HIV positive people will not
be identified in each fiscal year.
http://files.nastad.org/media/Issue-Brief-NASTAD-Sequestration-HIV-Hepatitis-Final-v3-10-16-12.pdf
**I think this is an excellent document about the sequester and HIV-related issues

Quote
While sequestration will have an impact on all ADAPs, as illustrated above, it will have a significant impact on individuals living in the South. As of June 2012, southern states accounted for 33 percent of all ADAP clients served; through sequestration, up to half of the clients that will lose ADAP services reside in southern states. States may be forced to disenroll clients currently served by ADAP due to a lack of other funding sources to mitigate the effects of federal budget cuts. Moreover, to reduce the burden of this impact on people already on ADAP, states may be unable to accommodate any new clients and, therefore, forced to close enrollment and establish waiting lists for these new clients.
The Devastating Impact of Sequestration on ADAP in the South

Quote
amfAR and NMAC have recalculated estimates of the human impact of budget sequestration on the response to the domestic HIV/AIDS epidemic. The new figures are based on January 2013 changes to the sequestration law, and reflect a revised estimate by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) of a 5.3% across-the-board funding cut to most non-defense discretionary programs.1 Our original issue brief on this topic is available here.
...
As a result of sequestration:

10,130 Americans living with HIV/AIDS will lose access to the AIDS Drug Assistance Program (ADAP), which provides life-saving medication to low-income PLWHA. Recent research has shown that, in addition to saving and improving the lives of PLWHA, HIV treatment reduces the risk of transmitting HIV to an uninfected partner by 96 percent.

More than 6,760 people of color would lose access to ADAP services.

...

The National Institutes of Health (NIH), which has been at the forefront of AIDS research for 30 years, would lose $163 million in AIDS research funding. 297 AIDS research grants would go unfunded, including 32 specifically funding AIDS vaccine research. It is estimated that AIDS research funded by the NIH has led to a gain of more than 14.4 million life-years globally since 1995.

Over $41.7 million would be cut from state and local HIV prevention efforts funded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), including efforts targeting young people and adults at high risk of infection. Among other programs, prevention efforts support testing to help identify the 18 percent of Americans living with HIV who do not know they are infected.
amFar: The Effect of Budget Sequestration on HIV/AIDS in the United States: Projecting the Human Impact in Fiscal Year 2013

There is no way in hell, that the FEDS are gonna let AIDS run-a-muck
have you been able to catch "How to Survive a Plague"? It's a good reminder of how the Feds once let AIDS run amuck and how it was a major public health crisis killing off a lot of our friends. :'( ;)

If baffles me a lot why more people on ADAP or receiving other HIV services don't still fight the way they used to. All it could take is one major disaster, one major fiscal crisis (hello, sequester) and people will go without those services, without those meds (It's not like we didn't already have people dying while on the ADAP waiting lists in the last five years.), and we may see sad history come around once again.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
leatherman, you're kidding right? It's the president's discretion on what programs he cuts he has the authority so don't go blaming anyone else. If he cuts ADAP, then he cut it, no one else.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2013, 11:54:52 AM »
Mikie  that's only your opinion but. not mine  ;)

Could, might, but may not happen at all, another Washington D.C. fear mongering scare tactic

but what evs, you all can believe whatever you like, it's a free country after all

you all watch to much news, and believe whatever is force fed to you

but, that's my opinion which i'm entitled to, and I'm sticking to it  ;)


HUGS

DEN  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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  • Twerk Baby Twerk
Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2013, 12:37:52 PM »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2013, 12:45:47 PM »
It's the president's discretion on what programs he cuts he has the authority so don't go blaming anyone else. If he cuts ADAP, then he cut it, no one else.
the sequester was a plan by Congress and the President to avoid the "fiscal cliff". (By the way CONGRESS spends the money, not the President.) There is little to no discretion to cuts in the sequester. The sequester is about across-the-board cuts to all departments and spending.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/sequester-timeline-when-will-the-cuts-be-felt/
Quote
Each federal agency will implement its cuts differently, on its own timeline, and the White House Office of Management and Budget tells ABC News it does not have a calendar for what cuts will happen when.
...
is Office of Management and Budget (OMB) will submit a report to Congress. Federal agencies, which have already been drafting their sequestration plans according to OMB, will begin operating at reduced funding levels. The cuts will happen.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2013, 12:50:02 PM »
Mikie  that's only your opinion but. not mine  ;)

Could, might, but may not happen at all, another Washington D.C. fear mongering scare tactic

but what evs, you all can believe whatever you like, it's a free country after all

you all watch to much news, and believe whatever is force fed to you

but, that's my opinion which i'm entitled to, and I'm sticking to it  ;)


HUGS

DEN  :D

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. :-[

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2013, 12:55:59 PM »
Mikie  that's only your opinion but. not mine  ;)
those were facts from the agencies being cut, discussing how they are cutting their budgets. Those are not my opinions; those are facts from other sources. Nor are those my opinions that the government didn't do anything for a long time and allowed people with HIV to die during the start of the AIDS epidemic. That is not my opinion either; that's history.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2013, 12:59:22 PM »
the sequester was a plan by Congress and the President to avoid the "fiscal cliff". (By the way CONGRESS spends the money, not the President.) There is little to no discretion to cuts in the sequester. The sequester is about across-the-board cuts to all departments and spending.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/sequester-timeline-when-will-the-cuts-be-felt/
There is where you are wrong Mike, Obama does have the authority. Mike what department does ADAP fall under? Are you saying there is not any other programs that can't be adjusted and it automatically goes to ADAP to be slashed. Come on we aren't going to have an Armageddon. How do you make financial adjustments household? The government needs to do the very same thing.

Offline WindySkies

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2013, 01:01:57 PM »
the sequester was a plan by Congress and the President to avoid the "fiscal cliff". (By the way CONGRESS spends the money, not the President.) There is little to no discretion to cuts in the sequester. The sequester is about across-the-board cuts to all departments and spending.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/sequester-timeline-when-will-the-cuts-be-felt/

The sequestration was something that Obama demanded and promised he would veto any bill back in 2011 that didn't include sequestration.  So it was his demand that congress add it into the bill at the time, and by signing the bill he agreed with the proposed cuts.  So it is completely clear the implementation of the sequestration came as a direct result of a demand that he made so that he could appear tough to the American people.  Now this lying S.O.B. is trying to put the blame on someone else?  Perhaps the media could simply play this video from 2011 to show the real truth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMZC-Zifx90

I'm tired of this guy playing both sides of every issue just to look good in the polls, and what's worse, the media letting him get away with it.
10/11/2012 Journey Started
10/17/2012 First Labs: VL=57,645  CD4+=730  37%
10/31/2012 Started Complera
11/30/2012 Labs: VL=80  CD4+=929 40%
12/24/2012 Started Stribild

Undetectable since 1/15/13 CD4+= Over 1,400 and 49%

Offline WindySkies

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2013, 01:04:46 PM »
There is where you are wrong Mike, Obama does have the authority. Mike what department does ADAP fall under? Are you saying there is not any other programs that can't be adjusted and it automatically goes to ADAP to be slashed. Come on we aren't going to have an Armageddon. How do you make financial adjustments household? The government needs to do the very same thing.

If he can bypass congress to spend, he can bypass them to cut as well.  Anyone remember when he did this without going through congress:

President Barack Obama has signed a waiver to remove curbs on funding to the Palestinian Authority, declaring the aid to be “important to the security interests of the United States.”

A $192 million aid package was frozen by the US Congress after the Palestinians moved to gain statehood at the United Nations last September.

But in a memo sent to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, published by the White House, the president said it was appropriate to release funds to the authority, which administers the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

In signing the waiver, Obama instructed Clinton to inform Congress of the move, on the grounds that “waiving such prohibition is important to the national security interests of the United States.”
10/11/2012 Journey Started
10/17/2012 First Labs: VL=57,645  CD4+=730  37%
10/31/2012 Started Complera
11/30/2012 Labs: VL=80  CD4+=929 40%
12/24/2012 Started Stribild

Undetectable since 1/15/13 CD4+= Over 1,400 and 49%

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2013, 01:06:30 PM »
There is where you are wrong Mike, Obama does have the authority. Mike what department does ADAP fall under? Are you saying there is not any other programs that can't be adjusted and it automatically goes to ADAP to be slashed. Come on we aren't going to have an Armageddon. How do you make financial adjustments household? The government needs to do the very same thing.

The Congress sets and passes the budget, not the President. He can send a suggested budget to Congress that must be voted on and passed. You do know there is three equal branches of government? I hope the President doesn't adjust your government paid for benefits.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 01:10:30 PM »
The sequestration was something that Obama demanded and promised he would veto any bill back in 2011 that didn't include sequestration.  So it was his demand that congress add it into the bill at the time, and by signing the bill he agreed with the proposed cuts.  So it is completely clear the implementation of the sequestration came as a direct result of a demand that he made so that he could appear tough to the American people.  Now this lying S.O.B. is trying to put the blame on someone else?  Perhaps the media could simply play this video from 2011 to show the real truth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMZC-Zifx90

I'm tired of this guy playing both sides of every issue just to look good in the polls, and what's worse, the media letting him get away with it.

You do know that this was agreed and voted on and passed by the Republican Congress? Your right wing friends could have voted this down. I guess they don't mention that on Fox.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 01:11:25 PM »
The congress makes the budget and the president has the authority to make allocations. He is not able to go above that budget set by congress.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2013, 01:14:36 PM »
You can't blame Bush on this, Obama owns it. It can go smooth or Obama can make you suffer.

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2013, 01:17:32 PM »
Perhaps the media could simply play this video from 2011 to show the real truth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMZC-Zifx90
that clip is the President saying that Defense cuts could not be left out of the Sequestration. that cuts would happen to ALL departments or he would veto any changes that left out the Defense Dpt.

The congress makes the budget and the president has the authority to make allocations. He is not able to go above that budget set by congress.
The President actually starts the budgeting process. Congress amends it, and the President signs or vetos their version of the budget. (allocations are Congressional changes in the budget)

Quote
The House and Senate Budget Committees begin consideration of the President's budget proposals in February and March. Other committees with budgetary responsibilities submit requests and estimates to the Budget committees during this time. The Budget committees each submit a budget resolution by April 1. The House and Senate each consider those budget resolutions and are expected to pass them, possibly with amendments, by April 15. Budget resolutions specify funding levels for appropriations committees and subcommittees.
Appropriations committees, starting with allocations in the budget resolution, put together appropriations bills, which may be considered in the House after May 15. Once appropriations committees pass their bills, they are considered by the House and Senate. A conference committee is typically required to resolve differences between House and Senate bills. Once a conference bill has passed both chambers of Congress, it is sent to the President, who may sign the bill or veto. If he signs, the bill becomes law. Otherwise, Congress must pass another bill to avoid a shutdown of at least part of the federal government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_process
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2013, 01:20:03 PM »
You can't blame Bush on this,
godwins law part b? LOL
who was talking about Bush?

I'm blaming CONGRESS (and Republican obstructionism) for crappy budget decisions - like NO budget decisions and hence the sequester. ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2013, 01:23:05 PM »
You can't blame Bush on this, Obama owns it. It can go smooth or Obama can make you suffer.

Just remember when you're sitting around your kitchen table making "adjustments" your sole existence is provided by the government, i.e. the American taxpayer. You always fail to mention that fact.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2013, 01:33:57 PM »
Just remember when you're sitting around your kitchen table making "adjustments" your sole existence is provided by the government, i.e. the American taxpayer. You always fail to mention that fact.
Do you know if I'm working or not? That is where you always stick your foot in your ass. You attack when people don't fall for your BS. What a joke. By the way I have worked now for some time so update that in your little brain. You'll have to find something that you are actually knowledgeable about to attack me with.  :D

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 01:47:32 PM »
A mind is a terrible thing to waste. :-[

Oh, are we speaking from experience here dear Doxie  ;)

a well equip body is a terrible thing to waste

I guess I better start using mine, before it falls off

shrivels-up- and dies  ???

ROFLMAO  ;D


HUGS

DEN  ;D
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 01:48:28 PM »
Do you know if I'm working or not? That is where you always stick your foot in your ass. You attack when people don't fall for your BS. What a joke. By the way I have worked now for some time so update that in your little brain. You'll have to find something that you are actually knowledgeable about to attack me with.  :D

I'm not going to argue with you about this, but you deceive people when you don't admit that you are on disability and receive government assistance. No shame in that. I'm glad you're healthy enough to work and happy that people on assistance can live a healthy, productive life. I'll send the President your heartfelt thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2013, 02:03:58 PM »
I understand that this is a VERY emotive subject for many Americans. It's also an important subject that needs to be discussed here.

HOWEVER... If the personal attacks keep coming - regardless of who they are coming from - this thread WILL be locked.

The next person to lob a personal-hand-grenade into the thread is going to be muted - and the thread will be locked.

THIS IS A WARNING!!!

Ann
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Online Jeff G

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 02:05:18 PM »
Hey guys , I have a sneaky feeling that we are not going to be able to solve the nations financial problems here on the forum today . Lets keep the conversation congenial so we can save this thread and the nation from the dustbin .

I see Ann just posted but since I took the time to write this Im throwing my thoughts in also .

Offline nixsmail

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2013, 02:24:04 PM »
the president proposes and congress disposes is how it's supposed to work with our money that the government has to work with. if the president had/has specific directions that he can decide in the sequester it's because congress gave it to him. in additon with regard to this specific sequester if he had that much discrection then why would the senate cons propose to give him more discretion, that was voted on on thursday by the senate. it failed so the president is stuck with what was in the original sequester document. perhaps we should all read the sequester to see where the actual cuts take place or not. i'm worried about the hiv related stuff just as much as anyone but i also take everything on the news with multiple grains of salt.

http://www.foreffectivegov.org/files/budget/debtceilingfaq.pdf
www.cbo.gov/latest/Budget/Sequestration-Reports

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Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2013, 02:45:27 PM »
we should all read the sequester to see where the actual cuts take place or not.
one of my earlier posts (the housingworks article) has a link at the end to a listing of cuts, broken down by state, posted through the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/02/22/what-sequester#states


edited to add:
amFar and NMAC estimates
http://nmac.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/amFAR-Sequestration-Update_2-20-13.pdf
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 03:06:02 PM by leatherman »
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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2013, 02:47:58 PM »
It's also an important subject that needs to be discussed here.
yes it is, and yes it does. thank you for your help.

as of the last ADAP Watch list monitoring report on February 14, 2013 there are still 63 individuals in 4 states who are medically eligible and financially eligible for assistance to get ARVs and yet are on a waiting list for these meds.

regardless of whose fault the sequestration is, when the cuts come through (whether to ADAP or HIV testing or housing/food for HIV positive people) the results will be a big issue for America and the HIV epidemic. I would imagine that just in the past as ACT UP had to take a stance to fight for HIV positive people, that HIV positive people will have to rise up once more to get proper funding and action from the federal government to deal with the situation. (shoot! here in the South we're still fighting to get adequate treatment, testing and prevention funding - see that other thread about that topic - and that's before the sequester) History has shown (as evidenced in the "how to survive a plague" documentary or by the simple fact of there currently being waiting lists) that funding, caring for, and treating HIV people has never been a high priority of the US government - unless it was demanded by the people.
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2013, 03:04:04 PM »
(shoot! here in the South we're still fighting to get adequate treatment, testing and prevention funding

Exactly.

Online Jeff G

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2013, 03:08:12 PM »
Having lived 30 years with HIV and struggling to get medical care or navigate the health care system in America I see this debate as something much bigger than this current crisis .

I hope for a day when we stop blaming politicians for what they haven't done or what they did do and except the fact the are just as responsible for sending them to Washington in the first place .

When and if the day comes that its no longer acceptable for the sick to go untreated or forced into poverty for life saving treatment and medicine then perhaps things will change for the better . I cant help but feel silence still equals death and if we passively except the status quo then what we get is what we elect .   

Offline denb45

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2013, 03:30:05 PM »
Politicians are only in it to win it, and most of them are career politicians anyways

case-in-point here is this, you can blame whoever you want, and point as many

fingers as you like, fact is, if most of them had to live in poverty and enlist in a

very broken health care system, like most have to, trust me, things would

really change for the better VERY FAST,  I think they should cut the pay

and health benefits of the whole lot of them entitled  politicians if they cannot do what we voted them to do.

in the 1st place  ;)


HUGS

DEN
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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »
I think they should cut the pay

and health benefits of the whole lot of them entitled  politicians if they cannot do what we voted them to do.

in the 1st place  ;)


HUGS

DEN

That's just it, they are doing what people voted for them to do. That's Jeff's point.  In a democracy a politician can only do what their constituents will tolerate.  A large portion of America (Specifically Southern America, sorry but its true) are voting for these loons.

Online Jeff G

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2013, 03:42:42 PM »
Politicians are only in it to win it, and most of them are career politicians anyways

case-in-point here is this, you can blame whoever you want, and point as many

fingers as you like, fact is, if most of them had to live in poverty and enlist in a

very broken health care system, like most have to, trust me, things would

really change for the better VERY FAST,  I think they should cut the pay

and health benefits of the whole lot of them entitled  politicians if they cannot do what we voted them to do.

in the 1st place  ;)


HUGS

DEN

That's the thing Den , nobody has held politicians feet to the fire except the tea party and the NRA and of course corporation's . Im certainly not a fan of those organization's but us progressives should take a clue from their play book and maybe they will listen a bit closer . In all fairness there isn't really a consensus among most Americans on what could or should be done to address the issues on health care because the facts have been so muddied up by all the ones with a dog in the fight or special interest .   
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:40:17 PM by Jeff G »

Offline Growler

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2013, 08:45:58 PM »
“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

Offline OneTampa

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2013, 09:44:29 PM »
I see the topic lit up here on this thread. Very good points made.

It was quite tepid here: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=47601.0

Bottom line, as with all things, time will give to tell.
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2013, 11:24:56 PM »
This thread is a perfect example of how the political class has Americans at each others throats.  Some of you champion to save the programs that are so dear, while others seem to want to cast blame.  To be honest, who cares how this all happened.  If everybody could just stop "shouting" past each other, both here and society in general, we might actually address some of our most pressing issues.

Joe

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2013, 12:10:06 AM »
That is the problem.  You cannot address important issues with the current repub party.  You have a Republican party that is hijacked by a minority.  They are in districts, where they are not afraid of losing in a general election.  They are afraid of a tea-party, primary challenge.  So, they have to act bat shit crazy.  I agree with what Bill Maher said last night.  Tom Delay, Newt, or Dole would have taken the 2 to 1 cuts to revenue deal.  The current repubs all said they would not even take 10 to 1. 

They just met for a conference, and didn't invite Gov Christie, obviously because he praised the president after Super-storm Sandy.  Christie is a conservative, but not whacky enough, I guess.  They said the attendees were the face of the future, but they invited all the oldies.  I think latest polling puts the repubs at a 26% approval.  I guess they figure the rigged districting will keep them viable for some time.  I've read articles, where some think they don't even care about the presidency anymore.  They figure they will continue to have trouble getting the White House, unless a Dem really fucks up.  But, they can keep the House and maybe the Senate.  They just have to prevent a primary challenge, which could tip it to a Dem, as we've seen several times recently. 

As long as they are controlled by a minority in their party, they will continue to do exactly what they're doing.  They know the repubs who favor a bipartisan approach will be with them on election day.  It will be up to fair-minded repub voters to send a hard message, by not voting for the status quo. 


Offline madbrain

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2013, 01:46:33 AM »
You can't blame Bush on this, Obama owns it. It can go smooth or Obama can make you suffer.

Absolutely, after all, republicans didn't refuse to raise the debt ceiling in the summer of 2011, for the first time in history. They didn't cause a self-inflicted credit downgrade for the US for the first time in history. Republicans never blocked any of the tax increases that Obama offered, in order to close the deficit.
Obama would have come up with the sequester entirely on his own, regardless of the composition of Congress. It's all his !

Seriously, get your head of the sand where it's been buried for far too long.

Act up and all of us, even those who aren't on ADAP (as I am not, nor is my partner anymore) or deriving any government benefit ; and dare I say, the entire LGBT community, should be raising hell all over the media right now, every single day, occupying the House, and calling the tea party republicans for what they actually are - murderers, every single day.

This isn't just a domestic issue either. There are quite a few people who will lose their PEPFAR funding and thus lose their meds and die.

The republicans in the house should all be impeached and tried for criminal negligence over this, nothing less will do.

After that, they should all be replaced with people who actually want to govern, rather than repeatedly inflict pain on their constituents.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 01:55:11 AM by madbrain »

Offline bocker3

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »
This thread is a perfect example of how the political class has Americans at each others throats.  Some of you champion to save the programs that are so dear, while others seem to want to cast blame.  To be honest, who cares how this all happened.  If everybody could just stop "shouting" past each other, both here and society in general, we might actually address some of our most pressing issues.

Joe

Thanks Joe -- I usually get trampled when I start talking like this -- but I think you have hit on the biggetst problem of all.  Too many, politicians and citizens, are more concerned with getting "their way" than looking for actual solutions.  NEITHER SIDE wants true compromise, as it could make them look "weak" politically.  Nevermind the impossiblity of admitting that the "other side" has any good points.  The right says the left is unbending, the left says the right won't compromise, but what they are both saying is closer to, my way or the highway.  Meanwhile it is beginning to resemble Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burns.

We must make smart cuts -- some of which will, and should, cause some pain for everyone (we can't expect someone else to do all the suffering required to fix our fiscal mess).
We must make some smart reforms for SS and Medicare -- not eviserate, but reform to save there long term viability.
We must make some smart Defense cuts -- the current cuts aren't going to demolish our military -- the scare mongering from the politicians (Dems and Repubs), as well as the media is particularly insane in this area.
We must find more revenue -- particularly by cutting corporate welfare, and reworking our entire tax code.  We could probably lower tax rates and still increase revenue if this is done right.

Anyway -- the bottom line -- we have to all open our minds and our ears.  The other side (whichever you choose to call the other side) has some good ideas -- we just have to be listening for them.

Mike
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2013, 03:56:27 PM »
This false equivalency drives me crazy. What your saying Mike is pretty much what the President has proposed, a balanced approach. Please give me an example of where this mysterious "far left" is refusing to negotiate? The Republicans have categorically denied any more legislation that would include new revenue.

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2013, 04:05:12 PM »
We must make some smart Defense cuts -- the current cuts aren't going to demolish our military -- the scare mongering from the politicians (Dems and Repubs), as well as the media is particularly insane in this area.
This reads like a false equivalency if you're implying that Dems scare monger about defense cuts. However, if you are discussing scare-mongering in a general sense, I sorta agree with you. Scare mongering about "Obama coming to take away all guns", "Obama is a dictator", "Current spending percentage is still increasing" are all very different things from the CDC scare mongering that 15k people may not have ADAP assistance, or that the middle class is disappearing as the top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth.

Some of those things are real scares and some are not. Comparing scares is a tricky thing. Comparing blame as one party has been compromising and the other has been obstructing is just not always possible. Making these comparisons lead to false equivalencies further obscuring the real truth and problems behind current issues.

pointing out a few examples:
We must make smart cuts...
the current cuts aren't going to demolish our military
cuts have already been made. Throughout Obama's administration cuts have already been made that America hasn't seen since after the Korean war (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/federal-reserve-economic-data-chart-real-government-spending-obama-recovery.php)

until the sequester, there really have been no defense cuts and defense spending may continue to increase even with the sequester (and hence why Obama was ready to veto any sequester package that excluded the military) (http://mercatus.org/publication/defense-spending-will-continue-grow-spite-automatic-cuts-set-bca  http://armscontrolcenter.org/issues/nuclearweapons/articles/defense_spending_since_2001/)

We must find more revenue -- particularly by cutting corporate welfare, and reworking our entire tax code.  We could probably lower tax rates and still increase revenue if this is done right.
lower which tax rates? Many corporations take so many loopholes that they don't actually pay the rates they should be currently paying. IMHO, tax rates could just be left alone; but  loopholes must be closed. then down the road, after that fix pays off, talk about "lowering" rates could be entertained.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline bocker3

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2013, 04:43:04 PM »
This false equivalency drives me crazy. What your saying Mike is pretty much what the President has proposed, a balanced approach. Please give me an example of where this mysterious "far left" is refusing to negotiate? The Republicans have categorically denied any more legislation that would include new revenue.

I'm not talking about the President -- I'm talking about Congress -- there is a reluctanct to even discuss touching SS by the Dem leadership.  Obama once put the change in calculation COLA raises on SS on the table -- Nancy Pelosi about blew an aneurysm.  Now he doesn't bring it up.

Also -- there is no "false equivalency" -- While the Tea Party may be far more strident -- there are "sacred cows" on all sides that people refuse to budge on.  Whenever I see "false equivalency" bantered about, it is a sign that people are unwilling to look at the situation with both eyes open.  I'm not saying the left and right are equally intransient -- but they both have their moments.  The fact that I agree, far, far more with the left -- does not negate the fact that the left MUST be willing to put everything on the table in order to start a negotiation.
Finally -- if you think that the Dems are not right now trying to do what the Repubs hoped to do a couple years back -- namely, make the other side look "bad" in order to win more seats in the next election -- then you are blind.  The Dems want to win the House in 2014 -- and won't hesitate to hold the nation hostage to make that happen.  That is, at the heart of it, the reason there is so much inaction in Washington.  No one wants to solve problems, they merely want to win elections. And YES -- there is equivalency there........

M
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2013, 04:50:14 PM »
This reads like a false equivalency if you're implying that Dems scare monger about defense cuts. However, if you are discussing scare-mongering in a general sense, I sorta agree with you. Scare mongering about "Obama coming to take away all guns", "Obama is a dictator", "Current spending percentage is still increasing" are all very different things from the CDC scare mongering that 15k people may not have ADAP assistance, or that the middle class is disappearing as the top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth.

Some of those things are real scares and some are not. Comparing scares is a tricky thing. Comparing blame as one party has been compromising and the other has been obstructing is just not always possible. Making these comparisons lead to false equivalencies further obscuring the real truth and problems behind current issues.

pointing out a few examples:cuts have already been made. Throughout Obama's administration cuts have already been made that America hasn't seen since after the Korean war (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/federal-reserve-economic-data-chart-real-government-spending-obama-recovery.php)

until the sequester, there really have been no defense cuts and defense spending may continue to increase even with the sequester (and hence why Obama was ready to veto any sequester package that excluded the military) (http://mercatus.org/publication/defense-spending-will-continue-grow-spite-automatic-cuts-set-bca  http://armscontrolcenter.org/issues/nuclearweapons/articles/defense_spending_since_2001/)
lower which tax rates? Many corporations take so many loopholes that they don't actually pay the rates they should be currently paying. IMHO, tax rates could just be left alone; but  loopholes must be closed. then down the road, after that fix pays off, talk about "lowering" rates could be entertained.

Again -- no false equivalency AT ALL -- the entire Virginia delegation is up in arms over the defense cuts -- Repubs and Dems.  Our Senators, Mark Warner and Tim Kaine (both Dems) are doing all they can to "protect" Virginia jobs from these defense cuts.

you are missing my main point -- demonizing the other side is why we are where we are.  Saying that 'my side is right and the other side is wrong/evil' will get us no where.  One can not negotiate by saying what is NOT possible -- you start with just about everything on the table and work from there.

As an aside -- you will NEVER, EVER get tax loopholes closed without adjusting rates down.  That is an example of "negotiating with no hope".  If you read what I wrote -- you could redo the tax code, cut out alot of the loopholes, deductions, etc, lower rates and STILL increase revenue.  That is how we might be able to get some progress. 

I don't have all the answers -- not even most or many -- it's about being open to really listening to the other side.  Not listening in order to respond, but listening in order to understand (even if you don't ever agree -- better understanding of the other side helps with meaningful negotiating).

Mike
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Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2013, 05:01:49 PM »
The Dems want to win the House in 2014 -- and won't hesitate to hold the nation hostage to make that happen.
wow. talk about false equivalency. :o

no single payer healthcare (the plan we got IS the republican plan), bush tax cuts mostly still intact (just a small part dismantled finally), war still continuing, Gitmo not closed. Remind us where the Dems aren't compromising and holding the nation hostage. (debt ceiling, fiscal cliff are Republicans holding things hostage. even the sequester was designed to force the Republicans to stop obstructing) Sticking up for the average citizen against the 1% and corporations NOT paying their fair in taxes is not holding anyone hostage but standing up for the rights of citizens to not be slaves of the rich.

and that's not even taking into account the voter disenfranchisement, insane rape analogies, abortion repealing laws and personal invasion laws, attempting to make laws based on religious beliefs, etc that only one party - the Republican party - is pushing, while the other party is attempting to bring more freedoms to Americans while implementing regulations so that banks and corps don't continue to rob us all blind.

Again -- no false equivalency AT ALL -- the entire Virginia delegation is up in arms over the defense cuts -- Repubs and Dems.
those defense cuts did not even come until the sequester required across the board cuts.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2013, 05:08:13 PM »
you are missing my main point -- demonizing the other side is why we are where we are.  Saying that 'my side is right and the other side is wrong/evil' will get us no where.  One can not negotiate by saying what is NOT possible -- you start with just about everything on the table and work from there.
anyone that won't first admit that the Republicans have been obstructing government over the past few years (for sake of their political gain) nor admit that (while not perfect) the Democrats have made compromises is what keeps us from having a decent conversation about these issues.

I never called the Republicans evil but I can see the truth that they are wrong on some issues. Continuing to claim both sides have been equal in dealing with the situation is why we'll never get any where. the republicans have clearly NOT put everything on the table while Democrats have put most on the table (no one should put ALL because that doesn't reflect what a compromise should provide).
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Offline mitch777

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2013, 05:22:17 PM »
Mikie (leatherman),
One must acknowledge, recognize, and stand up for principles and beliefs.
Too ignore this basic part of politics is not realistic.
It would be great if we all had brilliant elected leaders that could rationally solve todays problems.
Alas, this is not the case.
If healthcare costs could be brought under control as a percentage of GDP, the economy would not be where it is today.
Which party is dead set against national health care and wants to solve the issue by cutting benefits?
Republicans.
Thank you Mikie!!! ;)
I agree with your "larger picture viewpoint"!
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2013, 06:20:39 PM »
I'm not talking about the President -- I'm talking about Congress -- there is a reluctanct to even discuss touching SS by the Dem leadership.  Obama once put the change in calculation COLA raises on SS on the table -- Nancy Pelosi about blew an aneurysm.  Now he doesn't bring it up.

Also -- there is no "false equivalency" -- While the Tea Party may be far more strident -- there are "sacred cows" on all sides that people refuse to budge on.  Whenever I see "false equivalency" bantered about, it is a sign that people are unwilling to look at the situation with both eyes open.  I'm not saying the left and right are equally intransient -- but they both have their moments.  The fact that I agree, far, far more with the left -- does not negate the fact that the left MUST be willing to put everything on the table in order to start a negotiation.
Finally -- if you think that the Dems are not right now trying to do what the Repubs hoped to do a couple years back -- namely, make the other side look "bad" in order to win more seats in the next election -- then you are blind.  The Dems want to win the House in 2014 -- and won't hesitate to hold the nation hostage to make that happen.  That is, at the heart of it, the reason there is so much inaction in Washington.  No one wants to solve problems, they merely want to win elections. And YES -- there is equivalency there........

M

See, that's the problem Mike. You come across as very strident when someone disagrees with you and you say they must be blind. How in the world does that make you any different than what you say you don't like about politicians? I see a false equivalency, you don't, that's politics. Obviously some agree with me, some agree with you, that's politics. However saying that the Democrats are holding the nation hostage is really a false equivalency. The Republicans control the house and can pass any piece of legislation they want with or without Nancy Pelosi. The Democrats control the senate but without the sixty votes necessary to get by a filibuster that the Republicans have used more than any time in history. Oh and there are plenty of moderate and conservative Democrats that would vote for changes to social security. Steny Hoyer has talked about this and he's in the democratic leadership. Oh and one more thing. You say you're not talking about President Obama and in the very next sentence you bring up President Obama. But I'm just being nit-picky. Don't forget on the last "fiscal cliff" bullshit, it would not have been resolved without democrats holding their noses and voting with enough Republicans to pass something. I know this will really set you off but lumping Social Security together with Medicaid/Medicare really is a false equivalency. But I'll leave that for another day.

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2013, 06:25:52 PM »
perhaps I should repeat a story I told to Mitch to explain my "big picture view" and to talk about why closing loopholes is needed without equal reciprocation from cuts as has been suggested.

Recently the SC HIV/AIDS Care Crisis Task Force held an Advocacy Day. We had one-on-one visits with our state Legislators thanking them for their $4.3 million ADAP funding recurring for 3 more years, and discussing the need for medicaid Expansion. While my Senator didn't begrudge the state paying the ADAP funding that they put in the budget last year, he wondered why we didn't ask our local hospital (in Rock Hill SC, a suburb of Charlotte NC) for the money. He pointed out that our little local hospital - a non profit hospital - made a $650 million profit last year. That little local hospital could spend .6% (not 6% but .6) and pay for ADAP for the WHOLE state. Good point, Senator M. ;)

Better point (IMHO) from Consumer Advocate Leatherman was that if Senator M would have put better regulations into law (ie closed those loopholes), a NON-PROFIT hospital could have never made nearly 2/3rds of a billion dollars PROFIT and that money would have been in the hands of consumers (maybe just like Dach*) who could have paid for their own medications without government, hospital or any agency assistance.

It just seems evident in a country where every March the gas prices rise when the gas companies are ALREADY making billions in profit something is wrong. Every penny the gas rises each day is generating even MORE profits - at the expense of Americans who are already in deep water. and that's before whatever the sequester is going to bring us in sorrow and cuts. Closing loopholes first - before even talking about cuts or tax increases - would surely change the discussion we're having. We might not even be having this discussion, if people/corporations were actually paying taxes into the system as they should be based on a tax code without loopholes.

As it is, we're simply arguing over the remaining crumbs while every day our government is nearly deadlocked from obstructionists and allows corporations and banks to rape us of our hard earned dollars.


*I only bring up Dach because this is a thread he started, and to bring this back around to real people with real problems, not just the abstracts of politics and money. Those politics, regulations, and money affect real people and real people can and might suffer. What's the solution for them? Do we sit by while sequester takes away ADAP funding and HIV prevention testing money? Do any of us think that less money spent on HIV treatment or prevention is going to help us or the country?

Sorry for the TL;DR post LOL ;D
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline Joe K

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2013, 07:50:35 PM »
Again, this thread is a perfect micro-sphere of the climate in America.  Folks cannot separate the "facts" from the "feelings" and "political persuasion" and you wind up talking past each other.  I always thought the way to solve a problem, was to gather up as many folks as possible to increase your creative potential.  That if folks could agree on a goal, that attainment of that goal, would help temper any friction between people.

I sound like my father, but civil discourse in America is really pathetic.  Nobody can propose anything, without focus group testing the message first, because the quality of the proposal isn't as important as what folks think you are proposing.  It's all smoke and mirrors and it's very damaging to society.  I read many sites and the comments are not to be believed.

Americans actually accusing other Americans of the most heinous acts, with no sense of shared patriotism or even humanity in some cases.  Non-stop media coverage, cameras on every corner and any faux pas is broadcast to all of humanity, to do with it what they will.

I fear that Americans are at risk of losing their humanity and sense of being part of this great experiment.  Difference in opinion is one thing, but when you spend billions of dollars convincing one group of folks to not only fear, but hate another group of people, where does it stop?  Americans are at each others throats and for what? And that friction and loathing is slowly changing us, like in this thread.

Somehow, we lost the ability to separate the fact from feelings in issues and it makes communicating just that much harder.  Somehow, too many of us believe that when the other person is wrong, that also makes them somehow inferior.  It used to be that any idea was welcome to solve a problem.  Not so much any more.

Who needs to worrying about actually doing anything, as long as we make sure that any blame goes to the other side.

Joe

Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2013, 08:53:40 PM »
Um...
Vote Dem!
Fight for a fair standard of living, for everyone in a country that is incredibly rich!
Remind elected officials that too much money is going to too few people.  Unemployed, sick, poor -- how much suffering and destruction can a society stomach?  Remember, its a fucking rich country. 
Complete the circle - vote Dem!  Find and vote in more progressive Dems at that.

I believe there are Federal politicians still capable of cognitive dissonance.  As for HIV+ people, we are a somewhat marginalized group, so make sure your elected reps know exactly what you think of this RAT FUCK sequester madness.  Strong arguments are made with human interest stories AND statistics, not in painting the opponents as monsters or asses...  Tell your story and your community's stories to the elected official and ask, where is the fairness, and the compassion??  They need to do their jobs...

« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 08:58:06 PM by mecch »
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Offline OneTampa

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Offline bocker3

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2013, 10:37:15 PM »
See, that's the problem Mike. You come across as very strident when someone disagrees with you and you say they must be blind. How in the world does that make you any different than what you say you don't like about politicians? I see a false equivalency, you don't, that's politics. Obviously some agree with me, some agree with you, that's politics. However saying that the Democrats are holding the nation hostage is really a false equivalency. The Republicans control the house and can pass any piece of legislation they want with or without Nancy Pelosi. The Democrats control the senate but without the sixty votes necessary to get by a filibuster that the Republicans have used more than any time in history. Oh and there are plenty of moderate and conservative Democrats that would vote for changes to social security. Steny Hoyer has talked about this and he's in the democratic leadership. Oh and one more thing. You say you're not talking about President Obama and in the very next sentence you bring up President Obama. But I'm just being nit-picky. Don't forget on the last "fiscal cliff" bullshit, it would not have been resolved without democrats holding their noses and voting with enough Republicans to pass something. I know this will really set you off but lumping Social Security together with Medicaid/Medicare really is a false equivalency. But I'll leave that for another day.

Actually -- the only thing I really disagree with, is your stance that the Dems are not part of the problem in Washington.  I do think the Republicans are far more strident in their obstruction, but they are not alone.
Also -- when I said I wasn't talking about Obama, it was because you were pointing out that he proposed a balanced approach -- I agreed with that.  It is Congress that isn't quite as open about it and are tying Obama's hands when it comes to SS.  So, you see -- you are being "nit-picky" about something in which I agree with you.  This is what I mean when I say that it is difficult to get anywhere in political discourse, because folks are only looking for the differences, rather than the commonality.  If we keeping doing what we've done, we will keep getting what we've gotten.

It's funny -- I feel like I agree with 90%+ of what folks say here, but it's the 10% that gets the focus.

I know that the majority of folks in this forum tend to be farther left than I -- but I haven't voted for a Republican in a VERY long time (not since I lived in Mass. and voted for Weld) -- so we are closer, politically, than you seem to think.  I just believe that we all have to give and take to move foreward -- for the Dems, that means doing something to change the current trajectory of SS and Medicare (perhaps I shouldn't lump them together, but they do seem, from economists POV, to be where some focus is needed and are, for the most part, exempted from the sequester).  I say that even though I know it will effect me down the road -- but I'd rather have that effect than continue on the train wreck that is coming if we do nothing.

Anyway -- I feel I've expressed my points -- and I get yours -- even agree with the majority of them.  So, with that I'll let this one go.

Mike
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2013, 11:36:09 PM »
Found an good article that sums up the differences between the parties, when it comes to spending and deficits. 

This paragraph nails it:

"I don't mean to suggest that Democrats are any better when it comes to the deficit, although they have a better case for saying so based on the contrasting fiscal records of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. The national debt belongs to both parties. But at least the Democrats don't go on Fox News day after day proclaiming how fiscally conservative they are, and organize tea parties to rant about deficits, without ever putting forward any plan for reducing them. Nor do they pretend that they have no responsibility whatsoever for projected deficits, at least half of which can be traced directly to Republican policies, according to Office of Management and Budget Director Peter Orszag."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/republican-budget-hypocrisy-health-care-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html


Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2013, 07:58:31 AM »
Actually -- the only thing I really disagree with, is your stance that the Dems are not part of the problem in Washington.  I do think the Republicans are far more strident in their obstruction, but they are not alone.
Also -- when I said I wasn't talking about Obama, it was because you were pointing out that he proposed a balanced approach -- I agreed with that.  It is Congress that isn't quite as open about it and are tying Obama's hands when it comes to SS.  So, you see -- you are being "nit-picky" about something in which I agree with you.  This is what I mean when I say that it is difficult to get anywhere in political discourse, because folks are only looking for the differences, rather than the commonality.  If we keeping doing what we've done, we will keep getting what we've gotten.

It's funny -- I feel like I agree with 90%+ of what folks say here, but it's the 10% that gets the focus.

I know that the majority of folks in this forum tend to be farther left than I -- but I haven't voted for a Republican in a VERY long time (not since I lived in Mass. and voted for Weld) -- so we are closer, politically, than you seem to think.  I just believe that we all have to give and take to move foreward -- for the Dems, that means doing something to change the current trajectory of SS and Medicare (perhaps I shouldn't lump them together, but they do seem, from economists POV, to be where some focus is needed and are, for the most part, exempted from the sequester).  I say that even though I know it will effect me down the road -- but I'd rather have that effect than continue on the train wreck that is coming if we do nothing.

Anyway -- I feel I've expressed my points -- and I get yours -- even agree with the majority of them.  So, with that I'll let this one go.

Mike

It could be worse, we could live in Switzerland. ;)

Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2013, 10:33:22 AM »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2013, 11:25:26 AM »
It could be worse, we could live in Switzerland. ;)
You won't hear any argument from me on that!!!!!
M
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Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2013, 11:34:02 AM »
Bash mecch at the expense of the Swiss???
Bash mecch and the Swiss together, because why not?
I'm not Swiss.  Switzerland does some things exceedingly well. Other things not.
Fail to see how Switzerland is related to anything here...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online wolfter

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2013, 11:58:46 AM »
Based on population estimate, I'd guess there are about 300 million different opinions.  I've been staying away from the computer lately because of all the rage that is being spewed by both "sides". 

It'll always be difficult to achieve success when everything is reduced to 2 sides.  When politics is reduced to "Superbowl" status where you root for your team no matter what, there's little room or motivation support change.

Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2013, 12:12:17 PM »
Let me play devil's advocate here for just a bit. There is something to be said for being passionate about your beliefs. Take for example marriage equality, which is being argued before the supreme court right now. Is there a squishy middle where one could reach a satisfactory consensus? Ban it, legalize it, or just let the individual states decide? How about a compromise that just accepts civil unions? If you wait for America to come to a consensus, you've got a long wait. Sometimes you have to scream and fight for your beliefs. That's democracy.

Online leatherman

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2013, 03:06:54 PM »
"The Devastating Impact of Sequestration on ADAP in the South"
http://nastad.org/docs/Sequestration-ADAP-South-Fact-Sheet-Final-Hill-v2-02-27-13.pdf
Quote
As of June 2012, southern states accounted for 33 percent of all ADAP clients served; through sequestration, up to half of the clients that will lose ADAP services reside in southern states. States may be forced to disenroll clients currently served by ADAP due to a lack of other funding sources to mitigate the effects of federal budget cuts. Moreover, to reduce the burden of this impact on people already on ADAP, states may be unable to accommodate any new clients and, therefore, forced to close enrollment and establish waiting lists for these new clients.

Underfunding the Ryan White system of care, particularly ADAP, will only serve to exacerbate existing structural challenges (e.g., disproportionate impact of HIV on communities of color, greater poverty, lack of employment and educational opportunities, and lack of access to vital prevention, care, and treatment services, etc.). These are also states that, for the most part, have been opposed to the Affordable Care Act’s Medicaid expansion. If enacted, the expansion would provide coverage for the many people living with HIV in South who are currently uninsured.

"Sequestration, ADAP, and PLWHA in North Carolina"
http://dukeaidspolicyproject.com/2013/03/01/sequestration-adap-and-plwha-in-north-carolina/
Quote
Specifically, in North Carolina, it is anticipated that 301-1,000 clients will be impacted.  This is disheartening news, particularly considering that North Carolina recently implemented a formulary increase to 300% of the federal poverty level (Source) and then “re-expand[ed] coverage to include medications for heart disease, Hepatitis C, mental illness, and other conditions that commonly accompany HIV” (Source).

In addition to ADAP cuts, North Carolina will not be expanding Medicaid (Source), which would “provide coverage for the many people living with HIV…who are currently uninsured.”  (Source)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2013, 03:22:41 PM »
Let me play devil's advocate here for just a bit. There is something to be said for being passionate about your beliefs. Take for example marriage equality, which is being argued before the supreme court right now. Is there a squishy middle where one could reach a satisfactory consensus? Ban it, legalize it, or just let the individual states decide? How about a compromise that just accepts civil unions? If you wait for America to come to a consensus, you've got a long wait. Sometimes you have to scream and fight for your beliefs. That's democracy.

Not to mention if you study Roman and Byzantine history politics have generally been nasty or nastier. Some people act like we should be sitting around Gran Gran's dining room table eating off doilies.

There's also ample erroneous information and 6th grade analysis in this thread which is why I can't be bothered. Pass me one of those cucumber sandwiches with the crust cut off. :-X
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline madbrain

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2013, 05:33:52 PM »
Better point (IMHO) from Consumer Advocate Leatherman was that if Senator M would have put better regulations into law (ie closed those loopholes), a NON-PROFIT hospital could have never made nearly 2/3rds of a billion dollars PROFIT and that money would have been in the hands of consumers (maybe just like Dach*) who could have paid for their own medications without government, hospital or any agency assistance.

Or barring that, simply tax the profits of all those so-called "non-profit" hospitals to pay for ADAP.
It is still the purview of government to help the citizens that re in need, not the private hospital, even non-profit. Citizens should not have to beg hospitals for free care.

Quote
It just seems evident in a country where every March the gas prices rise when the gas companies are ALREADY making billions in profit something is wrong. Every penny the gas rises each day is generating even MORE profits - at the expense of Americans who are already in deep water.

There are things Americans can do about it, though. I I haven't filled up since October as I now drive a ridiculously cheap EV, a Nissan Leaf, due to the EV subsidies. It is powered by my renewable solar energy at home, also subsidized.

But then again, the price of gasoline is also very highly subsidized. In all other western countries it costs about twice as much.

Quote
Closing loopholes first - before even talking about cuts or tax increases - would surely change the discussion we're having. We might not even be having this discussion, if people/corporations were actually paying taxes into the system as they should be based on a tax code without loopholes.

Absolutely. Closing loopholes is a requirement. And probably simplifying this insane tax code we have.
And it should be done regardless of what the deficit is, and even if there was a surplus, IMO.
Effective US tax rates, both individual and corporate, are already some of the lowest in the western world and certainly do not need to come down.
If I could I would definitely vote for higher taxes. Over 66% of Californians just voted themselves a tax increase last november in the form of prop 30.

Quote
*I only bring up Dach because this is a thread he started, and to bring this back around to real people with real problems, not just the abstracts of politics and money. Those politics, regulations, and money affect real people and real people can and might suffer. What's the solution for them? Do we sit by while sequester takes away ADAP funding and HIV prevention testing money? Do any of us think that less money spent on HIV treatment or prevention is going to help us or the country?

Sorry for the TL;DR post LOL ;D

Sorry, but mine was a long off-topic post as well.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2013, 10:55:39 PM »
Not to mention if you study Roman and Byzantine history politics have generally been nasty or nastier. Some people act like we should be sitting around Gran Gran's dining room table eating off doilies.

There's also ample erroneous information and 6th grade analysis in this thread which is why I can't be bothered. Pass me one of those cucumber sandwiches with the crust cut off. :-X

Oh, I would love to have some tea and cucumber sandwiches with you, and discuss Roman and Byzantine politics.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2013, 02:48:48 PM »
On topic-- A friend sent me this.  Even with like-minded liberal friends, I will often ignore all the things they send me to read and watch.  I am glad I watched this.  While I knew the problem was bad, I was surprised how bad things really are.  My perception was way off from reality.  This lays out the problem in a way, that a 10 year-old could understand it. 

http://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM

Offline mitch777

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2013, 03:54:31 PM »
On topic-- A friend sent me this.  Even with like-minded liberal friends, I will often ignore all the things they send me to read and watch.  I am glad I watched this.  While I knew the problem was bad, I was surprised how bad things really are.  My perception was way off from reality.  This lays out the problem in a way, that a 10 year-old could understand it. 

http://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM
Great but frightening video!
I'm sad and mad and I'm going to yell out the window "I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!".

PS-Ted...
I think it may be time to change your avatar again. ;)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2013, 04:03:15 PM »
Dire state of inequality, isn't it.

And yet, how to get Americans to live in the reality rather than their false impressions and their pipedreams.

If one tries the compare/contrast method, when one starts comparing the US wealth distribution to other countries, (it seems to me) one instantly loses about 50% of the population's attention...  Americans do NOT like being compared to other countries because this challenges too many delusions.. Or its just "not applicable" because any potential challenge to "the best way" could only come from a "socialist state", thus completely discredited as a model, and so on..... or what not....

What people can't deal with is conflicting myths and realities, which exist together.  In most countries, for that matter. 

America IS the land of opportunity.  But its also not, with many portions of the population fixed into a class.  There's been more class mobility in some European countries for quite some time.... 

The Horatio Alger story is compelling, motivating, occasionally true, but often just a fairy tale....

Americans do not want to hate our rich, probably not even our super rich.  But really, HOW MUCH pie should they get. ALL the pie??? 

While the general population might not be able to accept, let alone finesse postindustrial class rigidity, don't you think that the social engineers should be able to talk and make policy about these matters??  Meaning, for example, the two parties in federal government?  Everything seems blocked, and for many years now...   Meanwhile, a colossal giveaway of the nation's wealth to the very rich....   

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2013, 04:05:33 PM »
No Wall Street executive prosecuted for financial fraud....  That's on Obama...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mitch777

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2013, 04:18:34 PM »
Americans have become blind to what has happened in the past 30 years.
I for one think comparisons between countries is frightening to our politicians and until we (and they) are able to acknowledge the wealth inequality the problem will turn into an economic disaster beyond repair.
And sooner than people realize.
Meanwhile...
The US stock market hits a record high today.
I think a market collapse will happen in the not to distant future.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2013, 04:35:33 PM »
I give Obama credit for addressing class issues with Affordable Care....  And he succeeded!  Also, class politics were a big part of the last election.  And again Obama won, and some people were able to discuss class, but was it much of a sustained discussion, or just a lot of trolling and bitter, back and forths....  Freedom Fries! 
(I know that was years ago....but...)

I grew up fascinated by the Guilded Age, the mansions, the families, the economic history of that time.... 

Wealth inequality is worse now....

Warren Buffett, “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”




“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2013, 06:50:43 PM »
Great but frightening video!
I'm sad and mad and I'm going to yell out the window "I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!".

PS-Ted...
I think it may be time to change your avatar again. ;)

LOL!  Well, we are expecting a decent snow tonight.  I will change it after that. 

Offline mitch777

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Re: Sequester madness
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2013, 09:33:54 PM »
I give Obama credit for addressing class issues with Affordable Care....  And he succeeded!  Also, class politics were a big part of the last election.  And again Obama won, and some people were able to discuss class, but was it much of a sustained discussion, or just a lot of trolling and bitter, back and forths....  Freedom Fries! 
(I know that was years ago....but...)

I grew up fascinated by the Guilded Age, the mansions, the families, the economic history of that time.... 

Wealth inequality is worse now....

agree 100%

Warren Buffett, “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.
[/quote]

It couldn't have been said more clearly.
Thanks Warren. :)
Thanks Mecch. :)
LOL!  Well, we are expecting a decent snow tonight.  I will change it after that. 

Change it NOW, Before the snow hits!
Pleeeeazze, make it go away! :)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

 


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