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Author Topic: Justification for Iraq War (apples) Was it Worth it? (oranges)  (Read 333 times)

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Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Justification for Iraq War (apples) Was it Worth it? (oranges)
« on: February 19, 2013, 10:20:15 PM »
Anyone see Rachel Maddow's hosting of "Hubris: Selling the Iraq War"?

(Maddow has long had the good taste of making a point of supporting the troops, even when she questions the rationale or wars.  Please note this thread is NOT a cricitism of the military......)

This documentary wasn't really any new news but it was surprising -- all the stakeholders who are now willing to go on record to speak frankly about how they knew is was a con job while it was happening (justifying the war) and now their regrets....   

I'm a democrat and Maddow is preaching to converted here because I was outraged by the buildup to the war, the Senate vote, and particularly Colin Powell's role.

I watched the documentary and just listened to it again while driving on the highway..  T

The thing I'm wondering about...   Any value in the bad act, now?

The doc makes a great case about how the reasons for the war were a con job, based on fabrications.  But it holds out, repreatedly, the possibility for many stakeholders that, overall, these weren't "lies" but rather elaborate word games and politics. 

i was struck, in the abstract, that the War on Terror has similarities to the Cold War....  Vietnam is presented as a cynical war, justified by trumped up attacks and threats, but fought, nevertheless, meaningfully or not, in the context of the Cold War. So, criminal, useless death, but in a longer historical context, it might have had some value....

So this is the thing -  Bush still maintains the Iraq war wasn't a bad idea. Seems like McCain is still pretty convinced. 

Meaning, its possible to say, the justifications were trumped up, the Senate vote was cynical politics on behalf of cowardly Democrats, unwilling to be weak on defense... 
(A congressman cries in the documentary, feeling guilty now, with blood on his hands, voting for this war.... for what?)

But, still granting these points, is there a way to rehabilitate, a sort of real morality to the Republicans who wanted this war, in the context of a very hysterical "war on terror", which was however based on real threats and attacks? 

I mean - why would Bush and Cheney and all, have wanted this war except for the hysteria, and that it was somehow "moral" and certainly strategic in the context of the "war on terror."  I mean, it made sense to hawks... In that/their world view....

So what do you think, was the Iraq war "worth it"?  Specifically how?  Or, only a travesty of death and destruction, with no redeemable afterthefact benefits?

This is how some experts debated it at the Council of Foreign Relations:

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-war-worth-/p26820
Was the nine-year U.S. war in Iraq worth it?

Boston University's Andrew Bacevich says the world is a better place without Saddam Hussein, but stresses that the "disastrous legacy" of the war transcends lives lost or dollars spent.

CFR's Max Boot says it may be premature to assess the benefits but there remains a chance for Iraq to serve as "a model for the Arab Spring."

Michael Ignatieff, an academic, human rights advocate, and initial supporter of the war, says groups like the Kurds and the Shia in Iraq have gained. But it's "difficult to believe the war was worth it," he says, given the damage to U.S. credibility, the strengthening of Iran, and the lack of stability in Iraq.

Michael O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institution expresses hope that over time the "the war will not be seen historically as a mistake or failure."


My gut feeling is that it was a criminal travesty and any small benefit to the "war on terror" doesn't counterbalance the death and waste...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 10:37:02 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online tednlou2

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Re: Justification for Iraq War (apples) Was it Worth it? (oranges)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 01:02:32 AM »
I recorded it, but haven't had time to watch.  I used my allotted TV time tonight to watch PBS.  It is something that burns me up.  Over 4,000 soldiers dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and most have just swept it under the rug.  It was not worth all those lives and I think $2 trillion by the time the last veteran is cared for. 

I did see where Rachel speculated on the paintings W has done, that surfaced due to family email being hacked.  I had thought the same thing that she suggested.  The two painting/drawings are of him in the tub and him in the shower.  Is he trying to cleanse his sins away?  Or, he just likes painting cleaning himself? 

 


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