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Author Topic: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine  (Read 3071 times)

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Online tednlou2

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Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« on: February 08, 2013, 12:56:42 AM »
I am so mad, after watching the 11pm news.  An HIV positive inmate is being charged with attempted murder, after throwing his urine under the door.  It upsets me this is my city.  But, the terrible reporting makes it worse.  This was the first TV station I worked at, and the reporter will be getting an email from me.  I expected better from him, since he claims to spend all his time reading and learning about new things.  And, I would have thought a gay reporter would be more careful with reporting on HIV.  I know the reporter has at least one poz friend.  The way the reporter says, "That HIV positive urine...." bothered me.

The story is so hard to follow.  The inmate says he threw his urine under the door, so a friend could get extra pay, for cleaning up biohazard spills.  But, the jail says it splashed into an officer's eye.  There is no follow-up how urine put under a door made it all the way into the air, and into his face.  I suppose it must have been thrown with a lot of force, which caused it to fly into the air.  But, we are left to wonder.  I still think it would barely make it to your knees.  But, perhaps not.  Without more follow-up, witnesses, or camera footage, then an officer could have made up urine splashing into his face. 

The reporter never discusses anything about transmission risk with urine.  I am just dumbfounded that the reporter never made transmission risk part of the story.  Every site I've found says not possible.  Well, some have caveats, such as blood in urine, but even those say not documented.  And, the reporter says the jail police say their lives have been put in danger.  I would think this would be where you give statistics about jail personnel being infected, or not.   

And, the reporter never discussed criminalization of HIV, especially an attempted murder charge, when it wasn't intentional.  If you're going to do a jailhouse interview, where you now have to go through this X-ray machine that shows your bones and organs, then go all the way with the story.  The story about the Grammy's requiring more appropriate attire can be bumped.  The story and video can be found at the link.  The inmate was a dumbass for doing this.  He obviously has issues.  But, an attempted murder charge is ridiculous.  They say the officer got treatment.  If he went on PEP for this, I would question the doc. 

http://www.wave3.com/story/21080171/exclusive-hiv-positive-man-talks-about-attempted-mu

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 02:44:19 AM »
Sigh. Ignorance.

Urine is not infectious under any circumstances, even if there is blood in it. HIV is way too fragile to remain infectious under that circumstance. Have at the man, Ted.

It's as bad as the spitting thing. Is it gross? Is it nasty? Is it the sign of a damaged head? Sure. Does it transmit HIV? Steel-belted Radial Fuck no.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 06:04:28 PM »
At the least it's a missed opportunity to educate the folks in Louisville and the entire Indiyucky area about HIV transmission and how it's not done.

It's possible he was being singled out *for* being HIV+ or the guards possibly had it in for him for other reasons and are conveniently able to turn his own body against him legally with this claim.

I'm giving the prisoner more than the benefit of the doubt because the story is so fishy, and the story comes from the officers. I'm from Nowheresville, Kentucky and did my undergrad work 'up North in the big city of' Louisville, so I don't find this surprising. My advice is don't trust any Kentuckian in uniform until they've earned it somehow. ;)
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline jd0525

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 11:48:25 PM »
@tednlou2: Yes, I saw the broadcast on WAVE3 and my stomach just cringed to hear how uneducated so many people are about HIV transmission (I live in Louisville as well). So many of my friends and coworkers, surprisingly, are somewhat naive about how to contract HIV. One friend of mine thought you could get it via a mosquito.  :o However, that's where we step in and educate those individuals.

@oksikoko: Bitter, party of one?  ;)

Online tednlou2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 11:56:34 PM »
@tednlou2: Yes, I saw the broadcast on WAVE3 and my stomach just cringed to hear how uneducated so many people are about HIV transmission (I live in Louisville as well). So many of my friends and coworkers, surprisingly, are somewhat naive about how to contract HIV. One friend of mine thought you could get it via a mosquito.  :o However, that's where we step in and educate those individuals.

While it may sound odd to say, I am glad to see another Louisvillian part of the forums.  I mean, I wish you didn't have to be here.  You know what I mean.  This makes 4 I know of, but one hasn't posted in a long time.  I hope he is doing well. 

We probably know some people in common.  I look forward to hearing more from you. 

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 02:20:16 AM »
@oksikoko: Bitter, party of one?  ;)

A joke. Just a joke. Won't happen again.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 07:24:46 AM »
A joke. Just a joke. Won't happen again.

You better keep that sense of humor oksikoko , its one of the things I like about you  ;) .     

Offline jd0525

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 08:52:21 PM »
A joke. Just a joke. Won't happen again.

I figured such, hence the wink ;)

Offline jd0525

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 08:55:55 PM »
While it may sound odd to say, I am glad to see another Louisvillian part of the forums.  I mean, I wish you didn't have to be here.  You know what I mean.  This makes 4 I know of, but one hasn't posted in a long time.  I hope he is doing well. 

We probably know some people in common.  I look forward to hearing more from you.

I am sure we probably know someone in common--heck, I might know you? Who knows. I know what you mean. :)

I'm glad I joined these forums. It's been helpful to read comments from everyone and know that I am not alone. Hope to hear from you as well.

Online tednlou2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 03:37:07 PM »
The local TV stations are at it again.  On-air and on Facebook, they are reporting another alleged incident of this inmate throwing urine on an officer.  Once again, none of the stations report the facts about transmission by urine. 

I have been surprised that at least half of the Facebook comments say this is ridiculous, since HIV cannot be transmitted by urine.  That is encouraging.  I made posts to all the stations, asking why is this news.  Urine throwing happens every day in jails and prisons, and those aren't reported.  If they want to report on this, why not question the attempted murder charge?  Since the virus cannot be transmitted that way, why not question how you charge someone with attempted murder, when it cannot cause death? 

One station runs promos how they are different from other stations.  They say they don't engage in sensational news and how they don't even use the term "breaking news."  They accuse other stations of giving you "news" that isn't really news.  But, they reported this and reported it without giving the facts. 

http://www.whas11.com/news/HIV-positive-inmate-allegedly-throws-urine-on-officer-216932521.html?can=n

http://www.wdrb.com/story/22930582/report-hiv-positive-inmate-throws-urine-at-corrections-officer

Offline mitch777

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 05:04:02 PM »
I just sent the "news" station an email.
Ugh!  :(
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Online tednlou2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 06:03:35 PM »
I am once again writing letters to the stations and the jail.  I'm writing some of my former coworkers who still work there.  Another station I worked at did not report this story. 

I wish I was already engaged in the poz community, so we could protest the attempted murder charge.  Gays have the Fairness Campaign here, that I would assume would get involved in a discrimination case against the LGBT community.  I don't know of an organized group for people with HIV.  The station issue is one thing, but the attempted murder charge has bothered me, since the original charge.  I just didn't know what to do, besides writing letters.

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 07:50:57 PM »
I don't know of an organized group for people with HIV.

ACT UP? I should probably join locally, but I haven't. There was a small contingent protesting the mayoral forum on HIV/AIDS I went to. Is anyone on here a member? I don't see anyone talk about this much.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline Habersham

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 08:42:40 PM »
I was in ACT UP in Philadelphia back in my salad days. I think we had a Berger roast. Then I branched off into volunteering at an ASO. I turned the anger over to the next generation.

ON the urine throwing topic - my friends in healthcare have urine thrown at them all the time. It's very popular in ERs and nursing homes. They just wash their face unless they need stitches on the head. It's part of dealing with angry people.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:44:44 PM by Habersham »
Because I Can

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 12:04:20 AM »
I was in ACT UP in Philadelphia back in my salad days. I think we had a Berger roast. Then I branched off into volunteering at an ASO. I turned the anger over to the next generation.

ON the urine throwing topic - my friends in healthcare have urine thrown at them all the time. It's very popular in ERs and nursing homes. They just wash their face unless they need stitches on the head. It's part of dealing with angry people.


Is anyone angry these days or did that go out of fashion with birkenstocks? ;)

I'd say they throw urine because it's the only means of communication they have left that anyone still listens to. I understand the inclination.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline Ann

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2013, 06:29:55 AM »
Ted, did you ever get a response from anyone you wrote to the first time around? You never said.

When you're writing this second round of emails, you might want to include these websites so the people you're writing to can become more informed:

http://seroproject.com/

http://www.hivlawcommission.org/

http://www.hivjustice.net/

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 06:30:37 AM »
Here's more: (the site isn't letting me include more than three links at once)

http://www.aclu.org/blog/hiv-aids/it-time-modernize-discriminatory-hivaids-laws

You may also want to contact Edwin J Bernard. He's written a lot about hiv criminalisation over the years. http://edwinjbernard.com/contact.html
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Habersham

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 07:04:29 AM »
Is anyone angry these days or did that go out of fashion with birkenstocks? ;)

I'd say they throw urine because it's the only means of communication they have left that anyone still listens to. I understand the inclination.

Anger takes a lot of energy. You mentioned once before about how people just want to be amused or get out of a place. Sometimes being amused and planning your escape is all you have energy for.

Everyone wants to throw something at some point and often in prisons and hospitals a urinal is the only thing handy.
Because I Can

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 07:10:09 AM »
Everyone wants to throw something at some point and often in prisons and hospitals a urinal is the only thing handy.

You could always throw shade. ;)
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline Habersham

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Because I Can

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2013, 07:29:10 AM »
Ted, did you ever get a response from anyone you wrote to the first time around? You never said.

When you're writing this second round of emails, you might want to include these websites so the people you're writing to can become more informed:

http://seroproject.com/

http://www.hivlawcommission.org/

http://www.hivjustice.net/

As if they ever felt it to be their duty to educate their audience   ::)




Offline Ann

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2013, 07:44:12 AM »
As if they ever felt it to be their duty to educate their audience   ::)


They can't even begin to educate their audience until they're educated themselves. We've got to start somewhere.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline oksikoko

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2013, 04:20:43 PM »
They can't even begin to educate their audience until they're educated themselves. We've got to start somewhere.

Who's to blame if the people writing the stories actually don't know that HIV is not transmitted that way? It doesn't excuse an overly punitive nature (why punish even more a prisoner who's clearly in need of some kind of help, even if HIV were transmitted that way?), but ignorance would partially excuse the passing on of mis-information, I suppose, especially in light of the dwindling number of fact checkers which news outlets can afford to employ. My honest judgement is probably harsher, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

But back to the question, who is responsible for ignorance? The educational system? The individual journalists? Or is the onus on us to come out and live publicly when feasible and educate whenever possible. No one knows more about the realities of HIV than we do. And no one is as invested in the education of others on the subject as we ought to be.
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2013, 03:30:47 AM »
They can't even begin to educate their audience until they're educated themselves. We've got to start somewhere.

I quote the topicstarter:
" I would have thought a gay reporter would be more careful with reporting on HIV.  I know the reporter has at least one poz friend.  The way the reporter says, "That HIV positive urine...." bothered me."

To me, this says it all:
1) the reporter wants to catch as much attention as possible and
2) the correctional officer sees a (remote ?) chance to sue for damages due to emotional stress/ occupational hazard, and profits if this events gets blown out of proportion.



Online tednlou2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2013, 03:49:15 AM »
Ted, did you ever get a response from anyone you wrote to the first time around? You never said.

When you're writing this second round of emails, you might want to include these websites so the people you're writing to can become more informed:

http://seroproject.com/

http://www.hivlawcommission.org/

http://www.hivjustice.net/

Thanks for the links.  I will include those.  I plan on continuing to write them, until I get a response.  Last time, I only got a response from a reporter I knew from way back.  She wasn't involved in the reporting, but said she would bring it up in their daily, morning meeting.  The reporter who did the initial jail interview with the inmate, would not reply.  He is the one who said, "He threw his HIV positive urine..." 

Offline Ann

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2013, 05:22:24 AM »

Who's to blame if the people writing the stories actually don't know that HIV is not transmitted that way?


In all seriousness, I place a HUGE amount of the blame on the CDC. The CDC site still says that kissing is a risk for hiv infection - ie saliva is capable of transmitting hiv. The prisoner in question isn't up for attempted murder for throwing piss, he's being charged with that for spitting on a guard.

According to Ted's second link: "Clark also allegedly threatened to spit on any officer who entered his cell. He was charged with attempted murder and assault in connection with that incident."

He's being charged with second degree assault, a felony, for throwing piss in the second incident.

I'm assuming that it's the spitting in the first incident that garnered the attempted murder charge, otherwise he'd be charged with it again over this second incident.

Ted's link where I read this: http://www.wdrb.com/story/22930582/report-hiv-positive-inmate-throws-urine-at-corrections-officer

Back to the CDC - they're supposed to be a trusted institution and the go-to guys for information on any infectious disease, yet they insist on carrying outdated and just plain wrong information when it comes to hiv.

In my opinion, they're largely responsible for all the rest of the misinformation regarding hiv transmission out there on the internet.

So where are people supposed to get reliable information? Most schools don't even teach kids how to prevent pregnancy or chlamydia, never mind hiv. (The under 30s age group has the highest rate of chlamydia all around the world, and it often has no symptoms - until one finds out later in life that they're infertile due to untreated chlamydia. Or they come down with a form of arthritis called Reiter's syndrome.)

I've heard people say - "well, there's no excuse in today's internet society for people to not understand hiv transmission." Again I ask you - where are they supposed to get correct information when the main go-to guys still list kissing as a risk? When many websites base their information on information they got from the go-to guys?

And we wonder why people freak out over kissing and blowjobs? We wonder why an hiv positive person's spit is considered a deadly weapon that can get you charged with murder?

I had hoped things would change over at the CDC when Bush left office. I can't tell you how disappointed I am that things have continued there "business as usual". There is a shred of hope in that some people in congress are finally trying to sort this out, but until the go-to guys change their tune, I'm afraid we'll be hearing the same song for some time to come.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online tednlou2

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2013, 02:29:10 PM »
A local radio station has reported the poor reporting at the TV stations.  They did leave out the NBC affiliate, for some reason.   I'm not sure what kind of readership their site gets, but at least they reported on it.  I need to search our local paper.  I haven't gotten a chance to read the paper this week. 

http://wfpl.org/post/media-critic-louisville-tv-stations-missed-real-story-behind-hiv-positive-inmate

Offline Ann

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Re: Louisville Poz Inmate Charged With Attempted Murder For Urine
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 06:04:34 AM »
A local radio station has reported the poor reporting at the TV stations.  They did leave out the NBC affiliate, for some reason.   I'm not sure what kind of readership their site gets, but at least they reported on it.  I need to search our local paper.  I haven't gotten a chance to read the paper this week. 

http://wfpl.org/post/media-critic-louisville-tv-stations-missed-real-story-behind-hiv-positive-inmate

Please keep us updated on any feedback you get, Ted. Thanks. I hope those links I gave you help.

Did you notice that one of the responses to the article above (saw yours, btw, kudos...) trotted out that tired old "theoretically possible" line - regarding piss? Yeah, and it's theoretically possible that you'll get hit by a meteorite the next time you step outside your front door. FFS!
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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