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Author Topic: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)  (Read 3173 times)

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Offline WillyWump

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  • Posts: 7,202
  • Fall is in the air!
Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« on: February 05, 2013, 09:43:21 AM »
Yesterdays results:

CD4 - 489. 28%. Down from 912, 42%

I'm still UD. The interesting thing is the last cd4 reading was taken a year ago because there was a lab screw up last time, which was 6 mos ago.

A few weeks ago I was sick on and off with what I thought was the flu (do yall remember all the whining). It lingered for several weeks. The doctor thinks this may have knocked my CD4's down. She's not overly concerned about it and will not be retesting until my next scheduled appt. Meh, it happens I suppose. but hate that it dropped so much.

Also she said my Hep B vaccine did not "take", so yesterday I got a double dose, one in each arm. She said if the vaccine doesn't take after this, she will just let it go and not worry about it. Weird.

I had alot of STD panels done, but she said these were my normal yearly batch.

My kidneys are still a bit wonky, and have declined just a tad. They have made no recovery since I switched off Truvada a year or so ago. I go back to the Nephrologist now. Booo.

All the other labs were normal.

So, I'm ok with everything. Just gotta keep on keeping on ;)

-Will

Oh Ps- I weigh a lovely 172, which is of course distributed really nicely across my Modelesque frame.

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline wolfter

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 10:03:14 AM »
I don't know of any research showing that CD4 counts are affected by the flu, but most experts assert it's probable.  Perhaps other have other information?

Even with your decrease due to the flu, you're number are similar to mine and I'm the epitome of health. ;)

172?  Not bad, only a few pounds to loose before bikini season.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 01:02:12 PM »
Actually when I had swine flu several years ago I lost 700 cd4s. They returned to their previous heights within 3-4 months.

As far as the Hep B vaccine issue that also happened to me and after the booster or whatever it "took".

ps: Miss P weighs around the same amount so stfu

pps: what kind of person with kidney issues drinks a pitcher of margaritas every day then has the gall to request mass sympathy on a message board?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 07:08:23 PM »
I don't know of any research showing that CD4 counts are affected by the flu, but most experts assert it's probable.  Perhaps other have other information?


Meh, Im not really looking for research to back up what my doc has been saying for years.

Btw, Lucky Will apparently picked up something at the Docs office yesterday...I've been running a fever of 101, 100.5, and 102 sine about noonish. ::)

SO there go the rest of the Cd4's. I guess I'll have AIDS soon.

So I going to drg myself to Bill Millers for some soup then crawl into bed and watch Tosh.o reruns. Nighty.



« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 07:17:25 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline texaninnyc87

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 07:16:24 PM »
sorry to hear about your impending AIDS diagnosis. i think you should wait a while after your flu goes away to get your cd4s checked, give them some time to get back up, then you'll never have AIDS!
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 08:16:00 PM »
sorry to hear about your impending AIDS diagnosis. i think you should wait a while after your flu goes away to get your cd4s checked, give them some time to get back up, then you'll never have AIDS!

lolwut 

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline texaninnyc87

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  • Posts: 247
Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 08:19:42 PM »
 8)
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline anniebc

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  • Posts: 5,947
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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 08:27:38 PM »
sorry to hear about your impending AIDS diagnosis. i think you should wait a while after your flu goes away to get your cd4s checked, give them some time to get back up, then you'll never have AIDS!

OK Tex, that was a joke..right?

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline texaninnyc87

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 08:34:55 PM »
Of course. He already made a joke about getting AIDS from the flu...
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline elf

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  • Posts: 616
Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 09:51:08 PM »
My CD4 go up and down all the time, from 1300 down to 700, and then up to 1300...
After a sleepless night, CD4 cells are higher, because your body thinks it's still evening...

I think your CD4 will soar again...
Maybe getting them counted in the evening would make you feel better.  ;)

Quote
Some of the immunologic  defects, however, are explained not by quantitative abnormalities of lymphocyte subsets but by qualitative defects
in CD4 responsiveness induced by HIV.

CURRENT Medical Diagnosis & Treatment 2013

« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:59:41 PM by elf »

Online buginme2

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 10:18:24 PM »
Normally even when you have a drop in cd4 count the percentage doesn't fluctuate so wildly.  A 14 point percentage decrease in one testing period seems....like a lot.  Its possible this test is just an outlier and your next test wil be back up to your normal range.


Offline texaninnyc87

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 10:22:29 PM »
what is an "outlier"?
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Online buginme2

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 10:32:22 PM »
what is an "outlier"?

Your numbers should be pretty consistent over time.  Lets say you get your cd4 count done every 4 months.  Your cd4 percentage usualy runs 31, 32, 32, 33 then all of the sudden your test comes back at 22 its outside your usual range.  This may be an outlier.  When you test again we hope it will be back to normal around 32.

Sometimes tests, for whatever reason, chalk it up to having a bad day, are outside your normal.  Thats why its always good to look at the trend and not just one test.

Now if future tests are also lower, then your trending down and the result would be considered to have more meaning.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 03:32:56 AM »
Meh, Im not really looking for research to back up what my doc has been saying for years.

Btw, Lucky Will apparently picked up something at the Docs office yesterday...I've been running a fever of 101, 100.5, and 102 sine about noonish. ::)

SO there go the rest of the Cd4's. I guess I'll have AIDS soon.

Perhaps the double dose of the Hep vaccine caused the fever?  I haven't weighed 172, since the late 90's.  When I weighed that, I looked like a lollipop.  My head just looked like it didn't fit with my body.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 07:45:24 AM »
Hey Willy......

I know a result like that is disheartening, but try not to focus on THAT result and look at the longer term trends.  A repeat will likely show many of these cells back circulating around.  Besides, once on meds, the UD result is far more important than any up or down CD4 count.  Plus it is very possible that your bout of flu is responsible for this lower result anyway.

As for your Hep B "not taking" -- that isn't all that unusual.  I have had the MMR (measles, mumps & rubella) vaccination about 4 times as an adult because it "doesn't take" --- have never come down with any of them.  Same thing happened with my Hep B (and I took the 3 shot series twice -- well, the first, time it was only 2, as I was deployed to Desert STorm and missed the 3rd shot).  My ID doc didn't see evidence of immunity to Hep B -- I told him my story.  He says, I remember reading it somewhere too -- some folks don't maintain high levels of circulating antibodies after vaccinations -- yet, when challenged (i.e. exposed to the virus / antigen) respond aggressively.  This happened with Hep B -- got a shot and a couple days later my titer was sky high.  So -- I wouldn't sweat it too much.  If you body simply isn't responding -- well, there isn't anythign you can do about anyway.

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline mitch777

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 08:01:31 AM »
geez,
i've really been missing threads these days. ::)

hope you are feeling better today Wumpy!

32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline wolfter

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 08:29:12 PM »
K wumpy, did you develop AIDS or not.  Inquiring minds want to know. :D
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline weasel

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2013, 03:46:05 AM »


  I hope you are doing better Willy .

    172 pounds  sounds nice to me   ;)

                                           Carl
" Live and let Live "

Offline WillyWump

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  • Fall is in the air!
Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2013, 06:17:59 PM »
I'm feeling mucho better! Woke up to soaked sheets again this morning. But no fever all day. so I'm think I'm over whatever it was. ;)
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline mitch777

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 06:21:46 PM »
great news!
missed the sassy wumpy! :)
32 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline madbrain

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    • My personal site
Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 07:06:17 PM »
sorry to hear about your impending AIDS diagnosis. i think you should wait a while after your flu goes away to get your cd4s checked, give them some time to get back up, then you'll never have AIDS!


Sorry to shoot down that theory, but I had the flu last month. It was very severe with fever and vomiting daily, but fortunately cleared up in a week. I waited only 4 days after it ended to go to the lab for my regular tests which were 1 month overdue.
I ended up with 921 CD4, highest result I ever got.


Offline Ann

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 07:51:40 PM »

Sorry to shoot down that theory, but I had the flu last month. It was very severe with fever and vomiting daily, but fortunately cleared up in a week. I waited only 4 days after it ended to go to the lab for my regular tests which were 1 month overdue.
I ended up with 921 CD4, highest result I ever got.



Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to these things. In October 2010 I was brewing a nasty kidney infection (came down with a high fever caused by it the day after labs were taken) and my CD4s were 576, 28%. Labs either side of that particular result were both in the 300s.

In contrast, when I had labs taken when I was getting over shingles in March 2004, my CD4s were 281, 23%. Labs either side of that result were in the low 500s (pre), high 400s (post).

CD4s can and do bounce around - for some people, they can bounce quite a bit, often for no obvious reason. Mine always did.

Since I started meds six months ago they've been on a steady upward trajectory, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they get to feeling their old selves sometime and start with the bouncy-bouncy routine again.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline klassykitty

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 09:04:01 PM »
Oh Ps- I weigh a lovely 172, which is of course distributed really nicely across my Modelesque frame.
And what a nice modelesque frame it is  ;D
(Couldn't figure out how to do the insert quote thing, your lucky i know copy and paste).

Michelle 8)
Who will probably not see CD4 numbers that high for a very long time.  But when I do it will be a reason for a Chambord and Pama party. :D
How to handle stress like a dog:
If you can't eat it or play with it.....
then pee on it and walk away

Diagnosed 01-20-2011
01-23  CD4 32    VL 125,400
02-18        76     VL 189
03-14  no cd4 test done   VL-52
04-14   69  VL-UNDECTABLE  YEA!!
05-26   50  whoopsy  
06-27   71        %-7
08-15   64 WTF %-9 
10-16  80         %7  
2012  CD4  %Thing   VL-UD
01-18  87    7
04-18  93    8  
07-16  151  8         
10-18  83    9    VL-70
2013   CD4   %thing       VL-UD
01-28  121     9
04-24  148    11   
07-25  157    11   
10-22  185    13
2014   CD-4  %thing   VL-UD
02-07 201 YEA!!!!!!  12
06-03  205      12

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 10:20:52 PM »
Since we're getting into it, what's humoral immunity vs cellular immunity gots to do, gots to do with it?  This is something I've been curious about lately, and wanting to learn more.

I read something Dr. Gallant wrote.  He said, "...colds and flu are controlled by the humoral immune system and not the cellular immune system that uses CD4 cells and is damaged by HIV."

Is this saying we are not more likely to get ill from things like colds and flu, than neg folks?  Or, does it also mean these illnesses shouldn't affect our CD4 counts much?  Does anyone have a link to a good explanation?  Or, can summarize what this means, without taking up much of your time?   

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2013, 12:27:52 AM »
so I'm think I'm over whatever it was. ;)

Chlamydia muridarum?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline randym431

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 09:17:40 PM »
For what its worth, I was on Epzicom for years and had good but unstable results. Good meaning above 500 routinely, unstable in that a jump up to 800-900 would not sustain from lab to lab. I might easily drop back down to the 500's come next lab. Then a switch to Atripla and dropping Epzicom, I have sustained 800+ lab after lab. But Epzicom is said to be much easier on the kidneys, if that is the concern.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Precipitous Drop in CD4s (new labs)
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 06:15:19 PM »
For what its worth, I was on Epzicom for years and had good but unstable results. Good meaning above 500 routinely, unstable in that a jump up to 800-900 would not sustain from lab to lab. I might easily drop back down to the 500's come next lab. Then a switch to Atripla and dropping Epzicom, I have sustained 800+ lab after lab. But Epzicom is said to be much easier on the kidneys, if that is the concern.

Thanks for the input. I was put on Epzicom specifically because of Kidney issues brought on supposedly by Truvada. While on Epzicom my Cd4 always increased until this big drop. My first drug was Atripla which couldnt get the job done (down to UD).
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

 


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