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Author Topic: Ed koch dead at 88..  (Read 2408 times)

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Offline J.R.E.

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Ed koch dead at 88..
« on: February 01, 2013, 06:22:01 AM »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline OneTampa

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 11:10:48 AM »
My twin sister Barbara lived in Brooklyn and used to take me around the city when I visited in the late 1970s and 1980s to various political events where I would see Ed Koch sometimes as the speaker. He sure did not pamper and powder his words before sending them out to greet everyone.

RIP.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 11:13:01 AM by OneTampa »
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaŪto frito."

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 11:37:21 AM »
I guess this is the final answer to the question Ed Koch always asked his constituents:  How'm I doing?  Ed Koch had quite a mouth.

Some of our NYC members here on the forums likely have more memories of Ed Koch, but I think he is widely regarded as bringing back New York City from the brink of bankruptcy in the 1970s. 
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 12:03:25 PM »

Some of our NYC members here on the forums likely have more memories of Ed Koch, but I think he is widely regarded as bringing back New York City from the brink of bankruptcy in the 1970s. 


IIRC he was a closet case that fiddled around as badly as Reagan during AIDS' early days.

But you non-New Yorkers go ahead and celebrate...

Find a copy of Reports from the Holocaust if you want a month-by-month explanation of what he did and did not do.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 12:12:02 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 05:19:34 PM »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 06:07:26 PM »
IIRC he was a closet case that fiddled around as badly as Reagan during AIDS' early days.

But you non-New Yorkers go ahead and celebrate...

Find a copy of Reports from the Holocaust if you want a month-by-month explanation of what he did and did not do.

Exactly.  Thank you.

And I presume that no one here read Peter Staley's entry on Koch and How to Survive a Plague from a couple of months ago.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 12:48:07 AM »
Barney Bush died today, as well.  I always found it interesting how George could have so much love for Barney, but often seemed indifferent to his fellow humans.

Offline mecch

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 08:15:32 AM »
He was a big guy and he had enormous presence and I watched him effortlessly carve out his own turf in rooms filled with other monster-sized egos and VIPs.  He was old school on his sexuality and had a right to that, but yeah he badly bungled AIDS.  People are complex, mixed bags, especially public figures and extra especially politicians.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 10:16:32 AM »
His real accomplishments while Mayor notwithstanding, his callous and deadly response to the burgeoning AIDS epidemic in the 1980s was/is unforgiveable. The same giant sized and infantile ego and very limited ability to actually listen and learn which may have sometimes served well in dealing with NYC's financial crisis were deadly as AIDS evolved from crisis to epidemic.

He who was never at a loss for a wisecrack if he couldn't otherwise refute someone with whom he had a disagreement, had a severe genetic defect: a lack of compassion. His choice to inhabit the closet permanently -- well, so what. In that he was a creature of his time. But his failure to respond to what was happening to thousands falling ill and dying cannot be excused.

Along with all the politicos and others who will be chuckling over their Koch stories on Monday at his service, the shades of uncounted thousands will be there as well and outside on the street holding up their 1988 ACT UP signs, "10,000 dead and counting/how am I doing?," and once again chanting, Shame! Shame! Shame!

Shame indeed.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 12:58:47 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 10:22:56 AM »
Barney Bush died today, as well.  I always found it interesting how George could have so much love for Barney, but often seemed indifferent to his fellow humans.

It's easy to understand if you consider that Barney never lorded it over George that Barney was smarter than. 
Andy Velez

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 12:35:20 PM »
Conservatards are mighty upset with Ms. Sullivan today.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 12:38:36 PM »
He was a big guy and he had enormous presence and I watched him effortlessly carve out his own turf in rooms filled with other monster-sized egos and VIPs.  He was old school on his sexuality and had a right to that, but yeah he badly bungled AIDS.  People are complex, mixed bags, especially public figures and extra especially politicians.

Oh do tell.  I didn't think the Townhouse was open back then, so you must've been lucky enough to have been on some list to be invited to all the happening events.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
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Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 01:05:52 PM »
Oh do tell.  I didn't think the Townhouse was open back then

I think that I (unfortunately) first went there in 1990 so my guess is that it was at least open in the late 80's :)

Rounds a few streets away was so much more fun.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 01:06:18 PM »
This is a stark reminder of how things are now and how they really were . We that waited for the response from those that were supposed to be in charge while people we knew and loved died will remember Mr Koch our own way and on our own terms , no apology's here .


Offline mecch

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2013, 09:34:50 PM »
Oh do tell.  I didn't think the Townhouse was open back then, so you must've been lucky enough to have been on some list to be invited to all the happening events.
We used to go to the Townhouse, it was a riot..... for about 45 minutes...  Rounds was a hustler bar of course but not Townhouse, not that I noticed at least.  Koch was a board member at a place I worked in the 80s.  I never saw him out anywhere gay.

I agree Andy Valez, and I'm glad NYT set the record straight.... er....bent. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 09:36:54 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2013, 09:41:32 PM »
The one I wanted to see out in gay places was Stephen Sondheim but never saw him. 30 Rock made a good crack about his notoriously chic dungeon on one of its last episodes.  I had a scottish friend who told me an urban legendesque tale about a lover/hustler friend of his and Sondheim. 
Did Koch have any lovers known to anyone??? 
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 05:56:04 AM »

Shame indeed.


I was hoping you'd weigh in on this Andy, seeing as how you're a life-long New Yorker and were there at the original NYC hiv "ground zero", participating in ACT UP demonstrations and being at the forefront of what went on.

I lived in NYC in '84/'85 and I remember thinking - this Koch guy sets my gaydar off on a major level so why isn't he, of all people, saying something? Why isn't he being more pro-active?

He was well-liked at the time and he could have made such a huge difference to the the general public's perception, not to mention prevention efforts. He could have made a huge difference all-round.

It boggled my mind and still does - even more so than Reagan's inability to even utter the words hiv or aids. What a shameful legacy for both of them.

What's perhaps even sadder is that there are still too many politicians, thirty years later, who keep their heads firmly embedded in the sand where hiv is concerned. Worse yet, there are still too many who would gladly see us all die.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 05:58:35 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 04:04:21 PM »
There have been various stories through the years about Koch's male companions, etc. Dennis de Leon, formerly NYC Human Rights Commissioner under Dinkins and head of Latino Commission on AIDS, said Koch hit on him in earlier years when Dennis was in a lesser city position.

An old acquaintance of mine who lives in the Village said that Koch's solo visits were a regular thing to a young gay guy who lived down the street from him. It was assumed it was a gay relationship.

And of course those vomitatiously coy bits of Koch holding hands with Bess Myerson during one of his campaigns while denying "engagement" rumors were as painful as they were ludicrous. The "romance" stuff stopped once the election was over.

Although I always found Koch's infantile behavior and craving of endless attention to be repulsive, I didn't really care about his being closeted. But I did care very much that as Mayor of the city which was and remains the epicenter of the AIDS epidemic in America, his "efforts" to address AIDS were virtually non-existent.

When he nearly choked to death in a restaurant and a waiter saved him by doing the Heimlyck (sp?) maneuver, I thought the waiter ought to have been indicted.

The re-naming of the 59th Street Bridge after him recently, largely an event orchestrated by Chris Quinn was a stab in the eye for those of us who remember his blatant failings during the worst days of the epidemic. Quinn's comments after his death about all New Yorkers mourning him and having loved him evidence how out of touch she is with significant elements of the lgbt community here. Excuse me while I fwow up.

Once ACT UP got on his case we never let go. He liked to dismiss us as crazies. If we were crazed it was understandable why. Day to day people were falling ill and dying all over the place. As a sop after the fact years later he liked to say he had lots of condoms distributed and closed some bathhouses.

Which was way too little and way too late.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 04:25:17 PM by Andy Velez »
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Offline edfu

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 01:22:16 AM »
The most damning financial statistic is this:

By 1984 Koch's administration found a grand total of $24,500 to help fight AIDS and the suffering it was causing amongst NYC's citizens.

In 1984 San Francisco, under the leadership of then-mayor Diane Feinstein, spent $4,300,000.   SF is one-tenth the size of NYC, and SF would ultimately go on to spend over $10,000,000 annually by 1987.  NYC:  zilch.     
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 06:35:51 PM »
Are we to be spared nothing? As if all of this Holy Weekend stuff about Koch hasn't been enuf, word is now going around to re-name the 77th Street local East Side subway station him.

No, no, no!

If anything is done how about naming the closet area of any Bed, Bath and Beyond after him. But better yet, just forgetabouthim.
Andy Velez

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 06:46:52 PM »
I just watched President Clinton sing the praises for him at the memorial . I guess politicians kiss baby's no matter how stinky they are . It gave me a sour stomach and I changed the channel .

Offline Jody

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 11:49:11 PM »
Andy, who could have the pulse of our city more accurately than you, a steady column in the New Yorker should have come your way years ago.  So many astute comments regarding Mayor Koch who came from an era when coming out was deadly to many careers.  Getting elected and re-elected was obviously the most important thing to him, really sacred.  And if that meant handling the AIDS crisis the way he and New York's power brokers decided it should be handled (or not) than so be it as far as he was concerned.

My thoughts are that if he had a do-over (and who the hell does?) he might have done things differently, no consolation to anyone at this point.  A larger budget, a more public personna, whatever would have been necessary to enable him to be viewed more favorably in the gay community, provided of course it didn't keep him from re-election as the Pope of New York. 

Film footage of his early political days, on a soapbox and imploring a crowd in Greenwich Village had me thinking that if he had been less power hungry and more concerned with the grass roots issues of the Village and all New York he could have been our city's Harvey Milk.  Of course Ed would have had to drop Bess Myerson and brought out that young man he was meeting on the side according to Andy (Hedda Hopper ;)) Velez. :) our ear to the ground regarding anything New York.

Like thousands of other city workers I was hired in 1985 by the City when Kochie was Mayor, so initially I had a good feeling about him, at least thankful in regards to my career.  Wishing he did a lot more for pozzies back in the 80's when our first wave of friends and loved ones died isn't going to bring any of those folks back.  But as Ann says he could have made a huge difference and often in life people regret not so much the things they do, but that which they fail to do, whatever the motives.  Showing the same love and support for early AIDS victims as he did for his beloved Israel would have been a nice thing to see for many of us, Jewish like myself or not.

Oddly he was buried at the non-denominational, but really the fancy shmancy Episcopal Trinity Church of upper Manhattan, the only cemetary in Manhattan that still accepts the newly cold, for a hefty price I might add.  Visitors are welcome and supposedly that's what he wanted, some will undoubtedly leave roses on his grave, but for those who survived AIDS and lost loved ones thorns may be more suitable.

Jody
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 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline Ann

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Re: Ed koch dead at 88..
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 07:02:31 AM »

Visitors are welcome and supposedly that's what he wanted, some will undoubtedly leave roses on his grave, but for those who survived AIDS and lost loved ones thorns may be more suitable.


I would imagine his grave site will be urine-soaked. I know I'd piss on it!
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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